Dissidents fearful as Thailand, once a haven, favours China

[webfact]

Dissidents fearful as Thailand, once a haven, favours China
BY ANDREW R.C. MARSHALL

BANGKOK: -- One night last month, Liu Xuehong stood weeping outside the gates of the United Nations headquarters in Bangkok, begging the guards to let her in.

The Chinese dissident had received a threatening call from an anonymous Chinese official, and feared that she, like other asylum seekers in Thailand, would be snatched away by agents of China or deported by a Thai junta increasingly allied to it.

The U.N. guards refused her entry. "I felt so frustrated," she said, tears streaming down her face. "We still live in fear here."

Full story: http://in.reuters.com/article/thailand-china-dissidents-idINKCN0VQ30A


-- Reuters 2016-02-18

[thesetat2013]

They live in fear with good reasoning. Thailand has already shown they will send people back to China if China wants them bad enough. Hopefully this will change but?

Thailand has changed with the Junta getting closer ties with China. I hope for their sake China doesn't take this as meaning they can push Thailand around once they get their claws into this countries financial dependency.

[canuckamuck]

They should be fearful. It is unfortunate they came here, but those were different times and Thailand still considered freedom a virtue rather than a problem in need of repair.

[asiamaster]

There are still plenty of US vassals like the Philippines they could go to.

[clockman]

Judging by the amount of Chinese registered cars, here in Chiang Mai. And buying of property, using a Thais name. China is investing big time. Look out Thailand.

[Pib]

Thailand will make a nice province of China.

[Muhendis]

Thailand has been the country of choice for the Chinese for centuries. The last two prime ministers were of Chinese decent. It is almost a province of China already. The following is a quotation from Wiki.

Overseas Chinese.

Thai Chinese consist of people of full or partial Chinese ancestry – particularly Han Chinese. Thailand is home to the largest overseas Chinese community in the world with a population of approximately nine million people, accounting for 14 percent of the Thai population as of 2012.

[kiwikeith]

Thailand will make a nice province of China.

Have a look at the top men in this country, the man that wrote the constitution, the deputy pm the boss and all the other top bras all look very chinese to me.

Thailand is owned more and more each year by china, most of these great big ugly empty resorts , condos and hotels are supposedly being built with chinese money, laundered money in some reports.

The average Thai does not care about this and just wants to have a good laugh and a feed, but that is getting harder by the year also as street vendors are being kicked off the streets more and more to make way for Burger king and Mac Donalds, the people are getting fat and sick by eating the junk foods and liver disease is rife, LOS is not what it used to be,

[baboon]

Thailand will make a nice province of China.

Have a look at the top men in this country, the man that wrote the constitution, the deputy pm the boss and all the other top bras all look very chinese to me.

Thailand is owned more and more each year by china, most of these great big ugly empty resorts , condos and hotels are supposedly being built with chinese money, laundered money in some reports.

The average Thai does not care about this and just wants to have a good laugh and a feed, but that is getting harder by the year also as street vendors are being kicked off the streets more and more to make way for Burger king and Mac Donalds, the people are getting fat and sick by eating the junk foods and liver disease is rife, LOS is not what it used to be,

Thai street food isn't exactly the best thing for you either, given all the sugar and other crap dumped in it these days, but it would certainly be terribly sad to see them go and be entirely replaced by souless chains. The world seems to be becoming a place where it doesn't matter where you go as you have never left, unfortunately... Edited February 18, 2016 by baboon

[Tomtomtom69]

Judging by the amount of Chinese registered cars, here in Chiang Mai. And buying of property, using a Thais name. China is investing big time. Look out Thailand.

The Chinese cars could soon be banned after numerous reports of bad driving, causing traffic jams and accidents etc.

Thais are also angry that they can't drive to China easily but the Chinese can come here after paying a mere 200 Baht and a little bit extra for 3rd party insurance.

On Feb 12, the Thai news media announced that foreign registered vehicles will soon be more restricted from entering Thailand (presumably non-ASEAN registered vehicles). For starters, advance permission to come will be required, which could greatly reduce the number of Chinese vehicles coming to Thailand (particularly northern Thailand) during the Chinese New Year and other holiday periods.

I think a better example would simply be the 5-6 million yearly Chinese visitors to Thailand, the vast majority of which come by air, and will always come by air.

However, don't think that Chinese proxies buying property here (it's not as if westerners haven't been doing the same) won't be caught out; let's also not forget the case of Chinese wedding photographers and tour guides being prosecuted for working illegally in professions closed to foreigners.

Thailand and China may have cushy relations, but that doesn't mean that everyday Chinese citizens can do what they want in Thailand or vice versa. I think you are greatly misunderstanding how these things work.

China and the USA, China and Australia also (generally) have very good economic and political relations. However, where the money is, is in big investments where large companies and well connected politicians benefit. Nobody cares about some average nobody Somchai or Mr. Zhang tourist.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Tomtomtom69

[Tomtomtom69]

Thailand has been the country of choice for the Chinese for centuries. The last two prime ministers were of Chinese decent. It is almost a province of China already. The following is a quotation from Wiki.

Overseas Chinese.

Thai Chinese consist of people of full or partial Chinese ancestry – particularly Han Chinese. Thailand is home to the largest overseas Chinese community in the world with a population of approximately nine million people, accounting for 14 percent of the Thai population as of 2012.

So what? That doesn't make the average Thai-Chinese any more pro mainland China Chinese than a Chinese Australian or a Singaporean Chinese is. Most Singaporean Chinese, who are FAR more "pure" Chinese than any Chinese-Thais are, are strongly anti-mainland Chinese.

Nor for that matter if we're on the subject does an American of British origin have to be pro-British.

I don't understand why westerners always come out with these strange connections.

Yes many Chinese came to Thailand 100-200+ years ago. Most of them were single men who ended up marrying Thai wives. The vast majority of Chinese-Thais are therefore NOT "pure" Chinese anymore. Few speak Chinese or any Chinese dialect and even if they did, most Thais would mistake them for Chinese tourists because to be Thai one must speak Thai and only Thai. Strong assimilation measures have largely washed away Chinese culture to the point where many Chinese-Thais simply identify loosely with having ancestors from China and perhaps loosely celebrate Chinese New Year by eating duck, crispy fried pork and putting on some red dresses, but aside from this they are Thai.

They are also some of the most vocal critics of communist China and for that matter, mainland Chinese tourists.

Your analogy of making Thailand appear to be a vassal state of China is as absurd as saying that all white (western) people have the same culture.

How about this analogy: because you are white you must be pro-Russian. Even though a large number of TV posters seem to have something against Russians despite their physical appearance being virtually identical. Isn't that like self-hate?

See what I'm getting at?

Edited February 18, 2016 by Tomtomtom69

[Tomtomtom69]

They live in fear with good reasoning. Thailand has already shown they will send people back to China if China wants them bad enough. Hopefully this will change but?

Thailand has changed with the Junta getting closer ties with China. I hope for their sake China doesn't take this as meaning they can push Thailand around once they get their claws into this countries financial dependency.

Thailand has always played diplomacy very well by leveraging it's position amongst large rivals. Just because it's getting closer to China, doesn't mean it has abandoned it's relationships with the US or any other country. It also doesn't mean things can't, or won't change once an election is called and a civilian party gets into power, nor for that matter even before that happens if Thais get fed up and start attacking Chinese tourists or businessmen as scapegoats due to whatever troubles they may be having.

Myanmar was close politically to China until late 2011. However, that did not mean China could push Myanmar around - while it did get access to all sorts of mining concessions and hydropower projects, now that the tables have turned China is getting itself into a lot of hot water in Myanmar with accusations of resources being pillaged and plundered, while the benefits all accrue back to China. Chinese loggers were arrested and threatened with life sentences, held in jail for a short period before being deported back to China. Chinese mine or hydropower workers have been attacked and even killed - some Chinese citizens have been kidnapped inside China and taken back to Myanmar. The Myanmar military even dropped a bomb on a Chinese village (accidentally of course) near it's border, while fighting the ethnic Chinese Kokang, killing 5 Chinese villagers.

I think in the case of Chinese citizens being deported back to China - why would Thailand want to hold onto them in the first place? It would be the same outcome if Australia or the USA wanted it's citizens back. Thailand would comply and therefore wipe itself clean of the problem.

[yellowboat]

The UN is a strange, dysfunctional place.

[Howitzer]

They live in fear with good reasoning. Thailand has already shown they will send people back to China if China wants them bad enough. Hopefully this will change but?

Thailand has changed with the Junta getting closer ties with China. I hope for their sake China doesn't take this as meaning they can push Thailand around once they get their claws into this countries financial dependency.

What if thailand did the same with US dissidents? Perfectly fine right?

[Howitzer]

They live in fear with good reasoning. Thailand has already shown they will send people back to China if China wants them bad enough. Hopefully this will change but?

Thailand has changed with the Junta getting closer ties with China. I hope for their sake China doesn't take this as meaning they can push Thailand around once they get their claws into this countries financial dependency.

Thailand has always played diplomacy very well by leveraging it's position amongst large rivals. Just because it's getting closer to China, doesn't mean it has abandoned it's relationships with the US or any other country. It also doesn't mean things can't, or won't change once an election is called and a civilian party gets into power, nor for that matter even before that happens if Thais get fed up and start attacking Chinese tourists or businessmen as scapegoats due to whatever troubles they may be having.

Myanmar was close politically to China until late 2011. However, that did not mean China could push Myanmar around - while it did get access to all sorts of mining concessions and hydropower projects, now that the tables have turned China is getting itself into a lot of hot water in Myanmar with accusations of resources being pillaged and plundered, while the benefits all accrue back to China. Chinese loggers were arrested and threatened with life sentences, held in jail for a short period before being deported back to China. Chinese mine or hydropower workers have been attacked and even killed - some Chinese citizens have been kidnapped inside China and taken back to Myanmar. The Myanmar military even dropped a bomb on a Chinese village (accidentally of course) near it's border, while fighting the ethnic Chinese Kokang, killing 5 Chinese villagers.

I think in the case of Chinese citizens being deported back to China - why would Thailand want to hold onto them in the first place? It would be the same outcome if Australia or the USA wanted it's citizens back. Thailand would comply and therefore wipe itself clean of the problem.

Another issue is the double standards many ppl on TV show specifically the farang group.

Like you mentioned if OZ or the US wanted their citizens back and thailand complied they wouldn't say anything. Would they claim oh see how tyrannical OZ or the US is? No not at all yet the minute the country is China doing the same exact thing they go on this fighting for freedom/the cruel evil chinese govt and indirectly all chinese people are like this yet when a western country acts the same way especially the US they don't have a problem with it.

[Nobb]

Thailand is becoming more like China every day. A military controlled government in which your freedoms are little or none. Even with bad leaders Thailand prospered. Junta challange the world about Democracy and Thailand workers and economy is suffering greatly. With a Democrat rule why did Thailand prosper so much better! The new Pm thinks like a Chinese than a Thai PM.

[darren84310]

They live in fear with good reasoning. Thailand has already shown they will send people back to China if China wants them bad enough. Hopefully this will change but?

Thailand has changed with the Junta getting closer ties with China. I hope for their sake China doesn't take this as meaning they can push Thailand around once they get their claws into this countries financial dependency.

Looks like it could be too late..... Ironical really that Thailand has been paranoid for decades about westerners owning anything here more than a condo, and now they are pleading with China to take a 60% stake in infrastructure projects and probably going to give land to them as a sweetener.

Westerners have never been interested in owning Thailand but that's exactly what the Chinese have in mind and it will be irreversible.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

There are still plenty of US vassals like the Philippines they could go to.

At least in USA you can criticize the leaders without being killed or put in jail.

I bet you're chinese or chinese aficionado...

[billd766]

Thailand will make a nice province of China.

Have a look at the top men in this country, the man that wrote the constitution, the deputy pm the boss and all the other top bras all look very chinese to me.

Thailand is owned more and more each year by china, most of these great big ugly empty resorts , condos and hotels are supposedly being built with chinese money, laundered money in some reports.

The average Thai does not care about this and just wants to have a good laugh and a feed, but that is getting harder by the year also as street vendors are being kicked off the streets more and more to make way for Burger king and Mac Donalds, the people are getting fat and sick by eating the junk foods and liver disease is rife, LOS is not what it used to be,

There is plenty of street food where I live. The nearest McDonald's is 125 km away though KFC and Pizza delivery are closer at "only" 65km.

[wwest5829]

They live in fear with good reasoning. Thailand has already shown they will send people back to China if China wants them bad enough. Hopefully this will change but?

Thailand has changed with the Junta getting closer ties with China. I hope for their sake China doesn't take this as meaning they can push Thailand around once they get their claws into this countries financial dependency.

Thailand has always played diplomacy very well by leveraging it's position amongst large rivals. Just because it's getting closer to China, doesn't mean it has abandoned it's relationships with the US or any other country. It also doesn't mean things can't, or won't change once an election is called and a civilian party gets into power, nor for that matter even before that happens if Thais get fed up and start attacking Chinese tourists or businessmen as scapegoats due to whatever troubles they may be having.

Myanmar was close politically to China until late 2011. However, that did not mean China could push Myanmar around - while it did get access to all sorts of mining concessions and hydropower projects, now that the tables have turned China is getting itself into a lot of hot water in Myanmar with accusations of resources being pillaged and plundered, while the benefits all accrue back to China. Chinese loggers were arrested and threatened with life sentences, held in jail for a short period before being deported back to China. Chinese mine or hydropower workers have been attacked and even killed - some Chinese citizens have been kidnapped inside China and taken back to Myanmar. The Myanmar military even dropped a bomb on a Chinese village (accidentally of course) near it's border, while fighting the ethnic Chinese Kokang, killing 5 Chinese villagers.

I think in the case of Chinese citizens being deported back to China - why would Thailand want to hold onto them in the first place? It would be the same outcome if Australia or the USA wanted it's citizens back. Thailand would comply and therefore wipe itself clean of the problem.[/quote

So, your last paragraph. No difference between China and Australia/USA legal system? Basis of individual versus collective rights and need for security? I cannot argue that, it appears, USA is moving toward the same approach toward civil rights as China, but there is a valid difference yet and the reason that Thailand or any other nation should seriously consider not deporting should vary on the basis of fair jurisprudence. But, I confess, I am a product of the Western Europe Enlightenment thinkers and the society basis on which the USA was founded.

[hawker9000]

There are still plenty of US vassals like the Philippines they could go to.

Seriously? Ok. Put down Ivanhoe and get back on those meds. "Vassal" .... LMAO. Who with working brain cells can gaze on the new Thai-China man crush, read the daily news on Chinese mega-squatting on the entire S. China Sea, and still manage to puke out "Philippine vassal"?

Somebody learns a new word and stuff like this happens I guess.

[Ricardo]

They live in fear with good reasoning. Thailand has already shown they will send people back to China if China wants them bad enough. Hopefully this will change but?

Thailand has changed with the Junta getting closer ties with China. I hope for their sake China doesn't take this as meaning they can push Thailand around once they get their claws into this countries financial dependency.

What if thailand did the same with US dissidents? Perfectly fine right?

"Inside the CIA's secret Thai prison", for example ?

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/MI22Ae01.html

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/JA25Ae01.html

[Jonmarleesco]

Obviously the Thai leadership is more inclined towards communism these days. Or has the junta not realised China is communist?

[Wilsonandson]

The Dalai Lama wouldn't be safe if he came to Thailand. The current powers that be would rat their own mothers out.

[Johpa]

Thailand will make a nice province of China.

Thailand has been the most southern "monthorn" for nearly 250 years, since the destruction of Ayuttaya. This is the Buddhist kingdom that, upon orders from the rulers in Beijing, prohibited the Dali Lama of Tibet from visiting. This is the country ruled by the minority Central Thais where 90% of the economy is controlled by people of Chinese descent although many such families are integrated by marriage into Thai families, mostly formerly high ranking Thai families, high sakdina, or high ranking military families. And like other colonies, wealth is extracted and capital is continuously moved "offshore".

[Wilsonandson]

Thailand will make a nice province of China.

Thailand has been the most southern "monthorn" for nearly 250 years, since the destruction of Ayuttaya. This is the Buddhist kingdom that, upon orders from the rulers in Beijing, prohibited the Dali Lama of Tibet from visiting. This is the country ruled by the minority Central Thais where 90% of the economy is controlled by people of Chinese descent although many such families are integrated by marriage into Thai families, mostly formerly high ranking Thai families, high sakdina, or high ranking military families. And like other colonies, wealth is extracted and capital is continuously moved "offshore".

Well you could be right!

http://www.icij.org/offshore/leaked-records-reveal-offshore-holdings-chinas-elite

[Howitzer]

They live in fear with good reasoning. Thailand has already shown they will send people back to China if China wants them bad enough. Hopefully this will change but?

Thailand has changed with the Junta getting closer ties with China. I hope for their sake China doesn't take this as meaning they can push Thailand around once they get their claws into this countries financial dependency.

Looks like it could be too late..... Ironical really that Thailand has been paranoid for decades about westerners owning anything here more than a condo, and now they are pleading with China to take a 60% stake in infrastructure projects and probably going to give land to them as a sweetener.

Westerners have never been interested in owning Thailand but that's exactly what the Chinese have in mind and it will be irreversible.

I don't believe you could actually say that westerners not interested in owning thailand?????????

Lord oh mighty imagine if they didn't have laws about land ownership westerners would be owning huge chunks of thailand.

[Howitzer]

Thailand will make a nice province of China.

Have a look at the top men in this country, the man that wrote the constitution, the deputy pm the boss and all the other top bras all look very chinese to me.

Thailand is owned more and more each year by china, most of these great big ugly empty resorts , condos and hotels are supposedly being built with chinese money, laundered money in some reports.

The average Thai does not care about this and just wants to have a good laugh and a feed, but that is getting harder by the year also as street vendors are being kicked off the streets more and more to make way for Burger king and Mac Donalds, the people are getting fat and sick by eating the junk foods and liver disease is rife, LOS is not what it used to be,

There is plenty of street food where I live. The nearest McDonald's is 125 km away though KFC and Pizza delivery are closer at "only" 65km.

When i see posts like buld766 i again see stuff like downplaying western imperialism and consumerist culture but magnifying say non western culture in this case chinese culture about building big empty resorts/hotels that of course have to look ugly cos they were built by Chinese. I can easily say you have to drive 100s of km before you see a big ugly resort or a big empty ugly hotel compared to a macdonlds or kfc.

Let us now assume macdonalds or kfc is chinese instead of western in origin you would hear the amount of outrage at them proving once again it isn't the actions of the party/entity/individual but who they are. In this case it is a racial/nationalistic issue in which western readers here don't judge the situation by the actions but by who they are so western corporations like kfc/mac can build as many branches/outlets as they like and somehow western/farang ppl are not taking over thailand but the minute some Chinese owned hotel/resort/restaurant is built then the Chinese are taking over thailand ignoring the fact that there are many such buildings owned and built by westerners and of course if a Chinese franchise similar to Mac was opened in thailand it is a bad thing but when Mac does it it's fine.