German Schengen Visa - Requirements to Translate Thai Documents

[SantiSuk]

I have applied for German Schengen visas on a couple of occasions before for my Thai wife (using the reduced documentation requirements for the spouse of an EU citizen) and our unofficially adopted Thai daughter (using the full rules - financial proof, sponsors letter, insurance, flight reservations etc).

It seems that the German embassy will require any documents that are in Thai to be translated into German. That would apply to our marriage certificate and our daughter's school certificate showing where she is studying. It might also apply to a birth certificate or two (haven't got that far yet to determine whether needed or not). If they do not accept English then I guess my sponsor's letter is going to need translation too.

I do not recall having to obtain any German translations previously and assume this must be a relatively new requirement. I am sure if I presented any translations last time it would have been the English language versions I already have (or maybe staff accepted the Thai versions). Maybe they accept English language but just do not advertise that fact? Anyone know?

If translations are required, does anyone know whether the German translations have to be notarized at Chaeng Wattana? I saw references that suggest they do need official notorisations. Does anyone know where to get a German translation in the first place - downloading the pdf from the Google translate version of the embassy website produces a gobbledygook page.

I have tried to phone the embassy over several days but it always times out saying there is no voicemail. I got through one time and they said that there were no staff available - call back at 1pm. You guessed - it timed out every time I tried around 1pm! Does anyone have a good route to getting assistance?

It was difficult enough applying on previous occasions (got sent away a couple of times to get additional documentation that had not been clear to me like school certificates and one Thai-German counter lady seemed to be reveling in the torture. I get the impression from reading some recent postings on Thaivisa.com that it has not got any easier. If I have to jump through hoops on the translations (ie visiting Chaeng Wattana and incurring more time and expense than previous) I'll simply give up now, which will unfortunately disappoint the German side of my family.

[beano2274]

My mother in law got her translations done at one of the appointed Translation services from the Embassy, I think she used Goethe Institute this time. No need to get stamped at MFA

[SantiSuk]

Many thanks Beano. V useful.

Any further offers on whether English documents are acceptable, anyone? My sponsor letter for instance (and if I took it literally all the supporting documents to that re my financial substance, which would be an expensive nightmare)

Any further offers on how to contact the Embassy [Edit - see below]. I could of course turn up in Sathorn*, but its an expensive trip from Sisaket just to get information, knowing that I will have to come back later for the application. Do they have an email address to which they do actually reply within a reasonable timeframe, anyone?


*Or more correctly, my Thai wife could, since reportedly they will accept wives of EU citizens without appointments (but with potentially extended waits per a previous ThaiV posting)



Edit: Further follow-up:
I have at least now re-worked from the German language version of the website, using Google translate, how to contact the embassy by e-mail. I previously made the mistake of clicking on a Google search reference that promised an English Google translate. I now realise that this was translating from the Thai website version, so some of the things on offer were chopped about horribly. My tip for English speakers would be to go to the website via Google search - "german visa bangkok" and use the www.bangkok.diplo.de result; despite the 'de' ending this brings up the Thai language website version so you need to click on "Deutsche" in the menu bar top left. Now you have a Gerrnan language version and the URL of that needs to be pasted into Google translate to get a readable version in English.

For reference of others coming after me I have posed the following questions on their contact form:

"I am assisting my Thai wife and unofficially adopted daughter to apply for a family visit visa. I am an EU citizen (UK) who will travel with them

Frage 1. Will you accept our (Thai) adopted daughter as our child for purposes of applying the EU reduced requirements? (note 1) She is not legally adopted and neither my wife or myself are her legal guardian. Our Thai housebook however shows she has lived with us for several years and she obtained a German visa and travelled with us in 2012. The UK recognises her as our child as a "de facto adopted" child for immigration purposes (but there is no official document to evidence that).

Frage 2. If I am required to submit a sponsor letter (and therefore supporting financial statements), must I translate all of these from my native English language into German?

Frage 3. Where can I find German translators who are accepted by you?

Note 1: I understand that for my Thai wife (and a child if accepted as being directly related to me) we are not required to show insurance or flight reservation and there is no need for a sponsor letter and financial substance proof."

Edited March 4, 2016 by SantiSuk

[beano2274]

Frau Ahrens is the contact person in the Embassy for Schengen Visas, for National visas it is Frau Herrera.

I can supply the email addresses, but only via messenger.

[beano2274]

http://www.bangkok.diplo.de/contentblob/420576/Daten/5787221/DolmetscherUebersetzerliste.pdf

list of approved translators

[Donutz]

Since you would be applying under Directive 2004/38 (feedom of movement for EU citizens and their non-EU family) the process should without a fee, accelerated and with a minimum of documents. This means that they should NOT ask for a German translation if they can understand the language of the documents (Thai, English). Now I assume that the German officer does known English and thus there is no need for translation into German. Legalisation of the documents 9such as marital papers or birth certificates) could be requested if this would be deemed necessary to authenticate them as genuine documents. That is afterall the only thing required from you and the staff (as you can see in the Schengen sticky, specifically the second post made by TheOldGit:

- verify that you are an EU national traveling to an other EU nation with non-EU family (your passports, passport copies)

- verify the family relation (marital papers etc.), which may be required to be legalized if this is necessary to confirm their is a genuine and legal family relationship. A translation of the documents may be required if they would need this to understand/read it's contents.

So if the Germans do a proper job, the whole process should be a walk in the park and completed without hassle, ASAP (15 calenderdays max) and for free (a service fee would apply if you voluntarily chose an external service providers -VFS, TLS- rather then using your right of direct access to only deal with the embassy). If they do make a hassle I'd inform Solvit (EU Ombudsman) and EU Home Affairs.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Donutz

[beano2274]

my MILs visa took a week, she was also only given 90 days.

[beano2274]

my MIL had a translation of our wedding certificate, and also she got documents translated that proved she is actually the Mother of my wife, but we were initially applying for a National Visa, but our plans changed.

[SantiSuk]

Received an answer from the German visa people within 2 hours - very impressive.

"thank you very much for your inquiry. I'd like to answer your questions as follows:

1. Considering that you are not the legal guardian of the child, the reduced requirements for EU dependents are not applicable. Further, the application has to be lodged by the legal Guardian or any authorized third party. In this regard visa requirements have not changed since 2012.

2. No, there is no need for translating the sponsor letter into German.

I trust this information was of help.

Kind regards Visastelle/Visa dept."

I expected my unofficially adopted daughter to be no walk-in-the-park. Only 'flew a kite' having seen on another ThaiV thread that the Dutch adopt a common sense approach to marital relationships that are not legal ones. The voluminous requirements for demonstrating 6 months financial records for someone with many bank/investment accounts is a right pain. I've partly been there for the UK visa already but last time and this for the UK I submitted only partial records showing I had substantial money in one account consistently over 6 months. Last time the German counter said they wanted all accounts. Getting medical insurance is an unwelcome cost and booking flights for the whole family party now is a bore and a risk. It's my understanding that I could get around some of this stuff by getting my sister/host to swear declarations in Germany that they are accommodating us, but I fail to see why I should transfer the pain of the visa process to her!

Good not to have to translate the sponsors stuff into German though. I will get a German translation of the Thai wedding cert, notwithstanding Donutz's exortation that they should not need it under law for a wife's application and notwithstanding that I have a professional English translation. I can't afford the delay and cost of revisiting Bangkok if there is resistance. I shall risk not getting a legalisation though. I won't rely on the "you've given her a visa twice on the back of a Thai/English version ..." argument either but I may call on that theme if they ask for a legalisation! My German family will understand our non-appearance I hope if it comes down to a lost discussion (/shouting match?)!

I'll get a German translation of the school cert evidencing our daughter's location of study even though it offers no comfort to them, given that she is 18 and finishes there in a couple of weeks time and has no confirmed place of further study/employment yet! I will not get her birth certificate translated as only a form-filling bureaucrat would insist on it given it shows no relationship to me the UK citizen and is not being relied on as such (oh oh, more scope for falling out - but I should be able to backfill that one on the same day in Bangkok if necessary!

Dog, I hate visa applications!!

PS. Thanks for the tramslators' list Beano, the Visa Dept overlooked answering that question. Thanks everyone else for input on a timely basis

Edited March 4, 2016 by SantiSuk

[SantiSuk]

Further follow-up. It emerges that German language translations are not required at all for short term visit or tourist visa applications.

Credit goes to the translation agency, Dolmetscher- und Übersetzerkooperation (third on the Embassy's current list), who responded quickly that they thought I did not need translation services. I had made it clear in the pre-amble that my intended applications were for short term visit/tourist intentions. An e-mail to the German embassy confirmed that advice as correct: they will accept documents in Thai, English or German for those category of visas.

One agency responded ultra quickly and wanted 1,000 baht per document (a marriage certificate, a birth certificate and a school attendance certificate).

Another responded quickly that they would respond to my enquiry as soon as they could. Nearly 3 days later I have not heard

One responded after 2½ days saying they wanted 2,000 baht a document! They must not need business at this time.

All seem to need about 4 working days clear to provide translations. A bit different from the UK translators near the British Embassy who generally can do standard stuff within an hour or two, or at least overnight.

Needless to say I would be using and recommend Dolmetscher-und Übersetzerkooperation for German translations even though I don't know their rates. Integrity (or at least attention to detail) is worth paying for!!

So I do not need translations which is great news. Not so great is the fact that my daughter has just returned from school saying that she now has a university entrance exam on the day we had chosen for our visits to the Embassy to apply. Now we find that we would have to wait 26 days for the next available appointment! That means we can't get the visas in time, so we have had to cancel plans for a side trip to Germany.

DOG I hate visa applications!!

Learning lessons:

1. The Embassy encourages you come to the Embassy to find out what are the requirements specific to your application. That's good advice try the phone to get such an appointment, but give up quickly if they are repeatedly busy over a couple of days. Use the contact e-mail to ask about coming in or ask detailed questions by email. Email repsonses are generally quick and in excellent English and to the point.
2. When they say that March/April/May is their busy period, boy do they mean it. I started the process with the best part of 7 weeks to go before flight, but I have blown out! That only applies where it involves a Visa for a Thai who is not the direct family of an EU citizen. Visas for EU connected wives and children (mine is unofficially adopted, so not recognised as being sufficiently connected) can be obtained on a walk-in basis on any working day, if you are prepared to sit around at the embassy*
3. Don't expect quick (or cheap) translations if you are applying for a longer term visas ("National Visa")
   
   

​*Provided the EU citizen is also travelling with them

[Donutz]

Thansk for the follow up, as I expected and suggested English translations are fine. The German (and Thai?) instructions seem to be geared towards German hosts and thus German translations but since the German staff speaks English that language will do just fine.

So I do not need translations which is great news. Not so great is the fact that my daughter has just returned from school saying that she now has a university entrance exam on the day we had chosen for our visits to the Embassy to apply. Now we find that we would have to wait 26 days for the next available appointment! That means we can't get the visas in time, so we have had to cancel plans for a side trip to Germany.

An appoitnment for a visa needs to be given within 2 weeks of the request as per Visa Code (if you want the exact article, you should be able to find it via the sticky topic). So that is being able to come by within 14 days at most, not 26. Especially for EU family applications but this also goes for ordinairy applications. if the embassy can not offer appointments within 2 weeks they are in violation of the visa code and/or under staff. During peak season the embassy needs to increase capacity according to EU Home Affairs (handbook). So try to get your appointment within 2 weeks, the Germans MUST offer this. The prossesing itself should not take more then 15 calenderdays if nothing unexpected turns up. So that is roughy 2x 2 weeks at the most between requesting an appointment and getting the processed papers back.

[Donutz]

The deadlines are mentioned in the sticky (two weeks to turn up at the embassy to hand in an application etc.), but here is the official wording as found in the Visa Code:

Article 9

Practical modalities for lodging an application

1. Applications shall be lodged no more than three months before the start of the intended visit. Holders of a multiple-entry visa may lodge the application before the expiry of the visa valid for a period of at least six months.

2. Applicants may be required to obtain an appointment for the lodging of an application. The appointment shall, as a rule, take place within a period of two weeks from the date when the appointment was requested.

3. In justified cases of urgency, the consulate may allow applicants to lodge their applications either without appointment, or an appointment shall be given immediately.

4. Applications may be lodged at the consulate by the applicant or by accredited commercial intermediaries, as provided for in Article 45(1), without prejudice to Article 13, or in accordance with Article 42 or 43.

(...)

Article 23

Decision on the application

1. Applications shall be decided on within 15 calendar days of the date of the lodging of an application which is admissible in accordance with Article 19.

2. That period may be extended up to a maximum of 30 calendar days in individual cases, notably when further scrutiny of the application is needed or in cases of representation where the authorities of the represented Member State are consulted.

3. Exceptionally, when additional documentation is needed in specific cases, the period may be extended up to a maximum of 60 calendar days.

4. Unless the application has been withdrawn, a decision shall be taken to:

source:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32009R0810

[beano2274]

I have already said that I can give the contact details of Frau Ahrens who deals with Schengen Visas, she did my MILs, no appointment necessary, although the Thai staff do not know this rule, from appointment to getting visa was exactly one week.

[fusion58]

I have already said that I can give the contact details of Frau Ahrens who deals with Schengen Visas, she did my MILs, no appointment necessary, although the Thai staff do not know this rule, from appointment to getting visa was exactly one week.

I would very much appreciate those contact details as well.

My attempts to obtain a tourist visa for my Thai wife have turned into a nightmare insofar as my supporting documents are all in English, and the Thai staff who do the initial documents screening have a very limited understanding of English.

For example, these same Thai staff advised my wife that my bank statements were unacceptable as evidence of funds because my bank was located in the U.S.

This same staff person advised my wife that only statements from Thai banks were acceptable. (Apparently this sort of dishonesty is preferable to admitting you don't understand English and "losing face.")

Amazingly enough, when my wife sought a "second opinion" from another Thai staff person, she was assured that the aforementioned bank statements were, in fact, acceptable.

My wife was also turned away because the invitation letter from our host in Germany didn't meet all of the requirements.

Trouble is, I've scoured the web for specific information in English re: those requirements to no avail.

Talk about an exercise in frustration!

[SantiSuk]

I have already said that I can give the contact details of Frau Ahrens who deals with Schengen Visas, she did my MILs, no appointment necessary, although the Thai staff do not know this rule, from appointment to getting visa was exactly one week.

No appointment is necessary for close family of an EU citizen. My unofficially adopted daughter is not close family (I did test this out with the embassy, who could perhaps have treated her as such for the purposes of appointments, but no joy).

I think you said your MIL was accepted as the close relative of an EU citizen. Seems less close to you than my daughter is to me but you had papers to show some familial connections - all I can point to is an entry in a housebook to show she has lived with us for a few years and as my German-setelled sister always tells me, the belief that Germans are slaves to rules is 100% correct.

Thanks for the pointers on appointment offering minimums Donutz. Looks like they have enough wiggle room to state that it is an exceptional time of year and sorry! [for the benefit of non-English-as-a-1st-language readers, 'as a rule' in common English parlance means the exact opposite of its literal meaning; it should be read as "as a normal rule yes .... but, exceptions are permitted - and in practice that phrase means no more than "normally"!] However worth another go at asking whether they can't deal with my daughter and wife together on a walk-in basis.

Fusion, I feel for you. Visa applications always seem to drain me and it's not for lack of research (or intelligence!). I had similar frustrations with a counter-dragon the second time I applied (so it's not even as though I was a newbie) and this time around the lack of guidance on translations was a real pain and the inability to connect on the phone is also lamentable on their part.

As you will see above, the German embassy have confirmed to me that there is no reason to translate any documents from English and I understand that to be because of the short-term nature of the visa, nothing to do with the extent of my own EU connectedness (and my adoptive daughter is being treated as unconnected to a European anyway). Sounds to me like they are out of control if they are insisting you show Thai money as support for your trip.

If there is anyone else out there with a third and different kind of howler I think the three of us should get together electronically and write an open letter to the German Ambassador (ie copied to German and Bangkok press) explaining the problems visitors have!

Edited March 11, 2016 by SantiSuk

[Donutz]

Thanks for the pointers on appointment offering minimums Donutz. Looks like they have enough wiggle room to state that it is an exceptional time of year and sorry! [for the benefit of non-English-as-a-1st-language readers, 'as a rule' in common English parlance means the exact opposite of its literal meaning; it should be read as "as a normal rule yes .... but, exceptions are permitted - and in practice that phrase means no more than "normally"!] However worth another go at asking whether they can't deal with my daughter and wife together on a walk-in basis.

I hope for you that they make it easier for you and them and combine your wife's prioirty appointment and your daughters normal appointment. Regardless, holidayseason is a busy season for applications every year so embassies should be and are prepapred for an increase in applications. Thus it's not unexpected and scaling up to meet the " two weeks" rule shouldn't be too hard. Longer waiting times are only acceptable if there would be a large sudden increase or other unexpected factor that would make them unable to stick to the deadlines. Imagen an embassy expecting 1000 applications and suddenly getting 10 times as many out of the blue, or the embassy burning down and being crippled to deal with applications.. Things that cannot be factored in. Simply being too cheap or lazy to increase staff during peakseasons are no excuse.

[Stocky]

My wife and I will be in the UK May/June and want to visit my sister in Germany. It will be cheapest to travel to Bangkok to get the visa rather than from London whilst in the UK. There seem to be a few changes since my wife last got a Schengen visa. Application is now through the website rather than a downloaded form, and you need an appointment? Though I note in the replies above that as the wife of an EU citizen she could go direct to the embassy without an appointment. There is an English translation of our marriage certificate, will this suffice?

Obviously a trip up from Hat Yai isn't an afternoon jaunt so best to dot the i's and cross the t's first.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Stocky

[jethro69]

My wife and I will be in the UK May/June and want to visit my sister in Germany. It will be cheapest to travel to Bangkok to get the visa rather than from London whilst in the UK. There seem to be a few changes since my wife last got a Schengen visa. Application is now through the website rather than a downloaded form, and you need an appointment? Though I note in the replies above that as the wife of an EU citizen she could go direct to the embassy without an appointment. There is an English translation of our marriage certificate, will this suffice?

Obviously a trip up from Hat Yai isn't an afternoon jaunt so best to dot the i's and cross the t's first.

Well, good I read a bit accross here. Although not German embassy, but appointment is advised.

"Prior to submitting a visa application it is advised to schedule an appointment at the Embassy."

When we went for the first application I was also asked for additional documents, English was fine with them, and they even said I could translate them myself, as the Thai staff would fly over it anyway. Well, I was lucky enough and the missus had all possible papers already translated, even with the MFA stams

As she got the fingerprints already taken 2 years ago, hopefully I can drop the application as I have to drive down to Vientiane or Savanaketh for a visa for myself, Is quite a hell of a ride from Chiang Rai.

Edited April 20, 2016 by jethro69

[Stocky]

Just received the wife's passport back and she's been given her visa.

We did book an appointment which was Monday last week, arrived at 2pm for the 2:30-3:00pm slot. We'd completed the online form and printed it out and had the application form, appointment email, 2x passport photos,Thai marriage certificate with photocopy (no translation), copies of my passport and the wife's, health insurance plus photocopy, and a letter from me requesting they grant my wife a visa so she could accompany me on a trip to visit my sister in Germany.

We had some issues. When completing the online form there's an option Yes or No to the following statement:

"In exercising their right to freedom of movement, family members of citizens of the EU, EEA or Switzerland (spouse, child or dependent direct relative in the ascending line) are not obliged to provide information concerning their employment, reference or the financing of their stay. If you belong to this category and you do not wish to provide any information, please select “Yes”. You must submit documentary evidence of your family relationship."

Selecting 'yes' skips a large part of the application form which when you print out is left blank. For some reason the clerk said we'd not completed the application form in full, she also wanted the letter of invitation, she seemingly failed to understand the opt out. I explained that it was I visiting my sister and requesting a visa for my wife to accompany me, and as a EU citizen my spouse should be granted a visa. She was clearly unhappy and asked my wife questions as to how often she'd met my sister, did they write or talk. Anyway, finger prints were taken and the application was accepted but it seemed unclear as to whether we'd get a visa. We left the embassy at about 3:15. We travelled up and down from Hat Yai the same day.

My wife had been granted a Schengen visa from the German Embassy on two prior occasions but I was still somewhat concerned what I'd find when we opened the envelope today.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Stocky

[Donutz]

Good to hear you got it all sorted out even though the staff at the counter didn't seem to get that this was an EU/EEA spouse application, thus skipping most of the form, no need for Insurance and no need to ask any questions regarding your wife visiting your sister. You may wish to write the Germans an e-mail about this, but simply as feedback rather then a complaint,. Staff migth have a bad day, could be the odd mistake but it may point to a consistant error (in which better training or guidance for the staff would be in order).

Edited May 3, 2016 by Donutz

[MarcMunden]

Hi

Many thanks for posting all this. Very helpful!!

I am also a UK citizen and am about to apply for a short-stay schengen visa for my wife to accompany me to see my son who lives in Germany.

One question though... My wife and I are legally married in Thailand. We have the marriage certificate stamped by the MFA and also translated into English. I have read in many places and been advised by some embassies (eg, Spanish embassy BKK) that certain embassies do not accept the Thai marriage certificate as legit unless it is officially registered in the UK, something which the British embassy in BKK are not able to do. Does anyone know if this is also a requirement at the German embassy or is the Thai stamped marriage certificate acceptable?

Thanks for the help!

[Donutz]

As far as I can tell from what people posted here, and what the instruction from the Ger embassy say, the properly apply the EU directive.

The Spaniards indeed do not apply the rules properly, the Spanish ministery is aware of this but various (most?) Spanish embassies apply the rules incorrectly due to Spain having incorrectly implemented EU regulations (the freedom of movement directive) in their national legislation. They don't seem to be in a hurry to fix this but if pushed, the MFA in Madrid complies.