Migrant crisis: 25 drown off Turkish coast including many children

[webfact]

Migrant crisis: 25 drown off Turkish coast including many children



GENEVA: -- At least 13 children and 12 adults are reported drowned after a boat carrying migrants to Greece sank off the west coast of Turkey.

The Aegean Sea’s latest disaster on Sunday, near the town of Didim, came just hours before crucial EU talks with Ankara on trying to solve the migrant crisis and highlights how rapidly it is spiralling out of control.

Separately, 13 people of Pakistani and Afghan origin were rescued from a sinking inflatable boat off the Greek island of Kos on Sunday.

More than 320 Greece-bound migrants have drowned this year alone according to the International Organization for Migration.

But despite the dangers, those seeking asylum – many from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan – keep coming.

Hundreds arrived on the island of Lesbos on Sunday after being rescued by the Greek Coastguard.

So far this year, some 135,000 migrants and refugees have reached Europe’s shores.

-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2016-03-07

[Searat7]

Turkey police and navy must be just standing by watching overloaded boats leave their shores...most likely some money is changing hands to look the other way. If human traffickers were not able to operate so freely there I think the end result might be very different.

[SgtRock]

Searat7, on 07 Mar 2016 - 08:49, said:

Turkey police and navy must be just standing by watching overloaded boats leave their shores...most likely some money is changing hands to look the other way. If human traffickers were not able to operate so freely there I think the end result might be very different.

Exactly.

It is time Merkel & Co realised that Turkey is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

[boomerangutang]

The residual affects of overpopulation and habitat destruction are not pretty. Expect these sorts of headlines to exacerbate for the next decades .....and beyond.

[boomerangutang]

Searat7, on 07 Mar 2016 - 08:49, said:

Turkey police and navy must be just standing by watching overloaded boats leave their shores...most likely some money is changing hands to look the other way. If human traffickers were not able to operate so freely there I think the end result might be very different.

Exactly.

It is time Merkel & Co realised that Turkey is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Turkey can't help but have dire problems, ....just look at where it's located. It's not Nova Scotia or New Zealand, which are comparatively isolated from teeming masses desperate to go somewhere habitable. Give credit where credit is due: Turkey is allowing wide swaths of its territory to be resided upon by millions fleeing armed conflicts.

[i claudius]

Poor children ,killed by their parents who were looking for a free ride rather than building a life in their own countrys

[RapidMethod]

I'm sickened by the appalling and callous treatment of these refugees and, like Alexander Betts, I am ashamed to be European.

We are nearly all of us refugees or economic migrants of one kind or another. Every single American, Australian, Israeli or (white) South African comes from some kind of refugee background. All of us living in Thailand are economic migrants (and very privileged ones at that)! Sure, many Brits and Germans and French people can perhaps claim to be "pure blood", but we enjoy the freedom to choose where we want to live and work, virtually anywhere in the world - if we ever feel disenchanted with our vater- or motherland, we wouldn't hesitate to up sticks and settle somewhere more conducive (and because we can afford it and have the right passport, we don't have to be labelled as a refugee - even though we're doing exactly what they want to do).

Refugees tend to be people who don't want to leave their homeland. Economic migrants (like us) are looking for greener pastures and we tend to have the wherewithal to achieve this. Either way, people who relocate are hungry for opportunities and are prepared to work hard to improve their lives and live with decency and dignity - often not for themselves but for their children.

Much of the crisis is indirectly the fault of meddling politics and corruption of our Western military-industrial politics and economies, it's not just about religion and crazy Muslims. The majority of Syrians (and other refugees) would be very happy to ditch their religion - it's been forced upon them anyway, just as in Europe most of us (or our grandparents) were forced to be Catholics or Protestants. And those Muslims who do want to continue practicing their religion will most likely want to do so in a far more moderate manner (in Europe, we can all enjoy wine and beer without getting our hands chopped off, and we can discuss our religious beliefs and question it and even be blasphemous). If I were a moderate Muslim, the last place I'd want to live in is a Muslim country! Besides, many of the refugees are Christian or some other religion anyway.

Sure, many of the refugees are uncouth and uneducated, even lazy. I was also, as a young 'asylum seeker' from South Africa during the Apartheid era. I got civilized quite quickly after I moved to the UK. And I gained work experience, greater expertise in my field, started companies, employed people, made and spent money - I became a good economic citizen: a consumer!

Blocking refugees is tantamount to murder (at least accessory to murder). By blocking refugees, we are condoning people trafficking, organized crime and putting people's lives in mortal danger. It's time we stopped this nonsense and find ways to bring in these people and their families. We can afford it. And not only can we afford it (because it doesn't cost us anything, it's a relatively simple matter of borrowing against the future which we do all the time, particularly for the financial and military industries, and social services) - the investment that we make now will pay back dividends in the future. Refugees are good for our economies - they create new industries, we get cheap labour (without having to rely on workhouses or child/slave labour in China or India) and we gain an entirely new demographic of young(er) people who will pay for our pensions and healthcare when we're too old to work for ourselves!

It's morally right and in our best interests to let them in and take care of them!

Edited March 7, 2016 by RapidMethod

[baboon]

"We are nearly all of us refugees or economic migrants of one kind or another."

No we aren't.

"..but we enjoy the freedom to choose where we want to live and work, virtually anywhere in the world - if we ever feel disenchanted with our vater- or motherland, we wouldn't hesitate to up sticks and settle somewhere more conducive (and because we can afford it and have the right passport.."

Millions upon millions of westerners can't afford it. Do you seriously think folk love living in grotty housing estates, or aren't terrified they are one paycheck away from destitution?

"It's time we stopped this nonsense and find ways to bring in these people and their families. We can afford it."

No we can't. We are bankrupt.

"...we get cheap labour (without having to rely on workhouses or child/slave labour in China or India)..."

We have plenty of cheap labour. Why do you think the minimum wage only goes up by a few coins if at all?

"..and we gain an entirely new demographic of young(er) people who will pay for our pensions and healthcare when we're too old to work for ourselves!"

And who will pay their pensions?

Accommodating people who are genuinely in fear of their lives is one thing, but we simply do not have the money, resources and apperatus necessary to welcome the world's wretched. Sure, it sucks, but the world simply is what it is.

[Baerboxer]

Searat7, on 07 Mar 2016 - 08:49, said:

Turkey police and navy must be just standing by watching overloaded boats leave their shores...most likely some money is changing hands to look the other way. If human traffickers were not able to operate so freely there I think the end result might be very different.

Exactly.

It is time Merkel & Co realised that Turkey is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Precisely. Turkey is simply ignoring the trafficking. It suits the agenda of Erdogan and his gang. Why isn't the UN banging on about Turkey ignoring international law, allowing or even facilitating people trafficking of illegal immigrants, and threatening them with sanctions?

UN is quite happy to slag Europe off for not accepting illegal immigrants and giving them vast handouts but not willing to comment on the country doing nothing to uphold the law and prevent them.

UN is a joke and opportunist Turkey must be laughing their heads off at how dumb Merkel and her cronies are.

[Baerboxer]

I'm sickened by the appalling and callous treatment of these refugees and, like Alexander Betts, I am ashamed to be European.

We are nearly all of us refugees or economic migrants of one kind or another. Every single American, Australian, Israeli or (white) South African comes from some kind of refugee background. All of us living in Thailand are economic migrants (and very privileged ones at that)! Sure, many Brits and Germans and French people can perhaps claim to be "pure blood", but we enjoy the freedom to choose where we want to live and work, virtually anywhere in the world - if we ever feel disenchanted with our vater- or motherland, we wouldn't hesitate to up sticks and settle somewhere more conducive (and because we can afford it and have the right passport, we don't have to be labelled as a refugee - even though we're doing exactly what they want to do).

Refugees tend to be people who don't want to leave their homeland. Economic migrants (like us) are looking for greener pastures and we tend to have the wherewithal to achieve this. Either way, people who relocate are hungry for opportunities and are prepared to work hard to improve their lives and live with decency and dignity - often not for themselves but for their children.

Much of the crisis is indirectly the fault of meddling politics and corruption of our Western military-industrial politics and economies, it's not just about religion and crazy Muslims. The majority of Syrians (and other refugees) would be very happy to ditch their religion - it's been forced upon them anyway, just as in Europe most of us (or our grandparents) were forced to be Catholics or Protestants. And those Muslims who do want to continue practicing their religion will most likely want to do so in a far more moderate manner (in Europe, we can all enjoy wine and beer without getting our hands chopped off, and we can discuss our religious beliefs and question it and even be blasphemous). If I were a moderate Muslim, the last place I'd want to live in is a Muslim country! Besides, many of the refugees are Christian or some other religion anyway.

Sure, many of the refugees are uncouth and uneducated, even lazy. I was also, as a young 'asylum seeker' from South Africa during the Apartheid era. I got civilized quite quickly after I moved to the UK. And I gained work experience, greater expertise in my field, started companies, employed people, made and spent money - I became a good economic citizen: a consumer!

Blocking refugees is tantamount to murder (at least accessory to murder). By blocking refugees, we are condoning people trafficking, organized crime and putting people's lives in mortal danger. It's time we stopped this nonsense and find ways to bring in these people and their families. We can afford it. And not only can we afford it (because it doesn't cost us anything, it's a relatively simple matter of borrowing against the future which we do all the time, particularly for the financial and military industries, and social services) - the investment that we make now will pay back dividends in the future. Refugees are good for our economies - they create new industries, we get cheap labour (without having to rely on workhouses or child/slave labour in China or India) and we gain an entirely new demographic of young(er) people who will pay for our pensions and healthcare when we're too old to work for ourselves!

It's morally right and in our best interests to let them in and take care of them!

Ashamed to be European - well, actually your're not. You chose to flee to Britain from an awful regime rather than staying to affect change like many others. You were welcomed and helped.

Now you expect anyone else to be treated as kindly as you, for whatever reason they fancy. Your naive comments on how the West is responsible for the refugee problems comes straight from the PC brigade. I once heard a Canadian UN manager claim that when Hindus and Moslems massacre one another by setting fire to trains, having locked the occupants inside, that is was something learned from the British. <deleted> - but then UN people talk a lot of that.

The Moslem world and most of its countries was a <deleted> heap way before any European got there - with brutal repressive regimes and religious intolerance. Some are more modern but others, the countries where a lot of these illegal immigrants come from, a still stuck in that medieval time warp. They are fleeing crap that they and their ancestors created and refuse to change.

Unlike you, many of these illegal immigrants, who are young aggressive males, with no respect for the law, have any intention of changing. Whilst demanding, note demanding as if it's a right, all they want they will make no efforts to change their beliefs, behavior or show any kind of gratitude. Quite the contrary, the want to impose their religion and laws on you and treat you as scum in your own country.

It is absolutely not in our best interests to let millions of illegal young male immigrants like this into our countries. Nor do we have any moral obligation to do so. We provide aid to their countries. They have a moral right to remain in their countries and work hard at affecting the changes necessary to drag their countries into the modern world.

[wabothai]

I'm sickened by the appalling and callous treatment of these refugees and, like Alexander Betts, I am ashamed to be European.

We are nearly all of us refugees or economic migrants of one kind or another. Every single American, Australian, Israeli or (white) South African comes from some kind of refugee background. All of us living in Thailand are economic migrants (and very privileged ones at that)! Sure, many Brits and Germans and French people can perhaps claim to be "pure blood", but we enjoy the freedom to choose where we want to live and work, virtually anywhere in the world - if we ever feel disenchanted with our vater- or motherland, we wouldn't hesitate to up sticks and settle somewhere more conducive (and because we can afford it and have the right passport, we don't have to be labelled as a refugee - even though we're doing exactly what they want to do).

Refugees tend to be people who don't want to leave their homeland. Economic migrants (like us) are looking for greener pastures and we tend to have the wherewithal to achieve this. Either way, people who relocate are hungry for opportunities and are prepared to work hard to improve their lives and live with decency and dignity - often not for themselves but for their children.

Much of the crisis is indirectly the fault of meddling politics and corruption of our Western military-industrial politics and economies, it's not just about religion and crazy Muslims. The majority of Syrians (and other refugees) would be very happy to ditch their religion - it's been forced upon them anyway, just as in Europe most of us (or our grandparents) were forced to be Catholics or Protestants. And those Muslims who do want to continue practicing their religion will most likely want to do so in a far more moderate manner (in Europe, we can all enjoy wine and beer without getting our hands chopped off, and we can discuss our religious beliefs and question it and even be blasphemous). If I were a moderate Muslim, the last place I'd want to live in is a Muslim country! Besides, many of the refugees are Christian or some other religion anyway.

Sure, many of the refugees are uncouth and uneducated, even lazy. I was also, as a young 'asylum seeker' from South Africa during the Apartheid era. I got civilized quite quickly after I moved to the UK. And I gained work experience, greater expertise in my field, started companies, employed people, made and spent money - I became a good economic citizen: a consumer!

Blocking refugees is tantamount to murder (at least accessory to murder). By blocking refugees, we are condoning people trafficking, organized crime and putting people's lives in mortal danger. It's time we stopped this nonsense and find ways to bring in these people and their families. We can afford it. And not only can we afford it (because it doesn't cost us anything, it's a relatively simple matter of borrowing against the future which we do all the time, particularly for the financial and military industries, and social services) - the investment that we make now will pay back dividends in the future. Refugees are good for our economies - they create new industries, we get cheap labour (without having to rely on workhouses or child/slave labour in China or India) and we gain an entirely new demographic of young(er) people who will pay for our pensions and healthcare when we're too old to work for ourselves!

It's morally right and in our best interests to let them in and take care of them!

Sorry to say so, but you are the perfect example of christian correctness, which attitude eventually will destroy Europe. And by the way Europeans did not put these people in these boats.

Edited March 7, 2016 by wabothai

[baboon]

I'm sickened by the appalling and callous treatment of these refugees and, like Alexander Betts, I am ashamed to be European.

We are nearly all of us refugees or economic migrants of one kind or another. Every single American, Australian, Israeli or (white) South African comes from some kind of refugee background. All of us living in Thailand are economic migrants (and very privileged ones at that)! Sure, many Brits and Germans and French people can perhaps claim to be "pure blood", but we enjoy the freedom to choose where we want to live and work, virtually anywhere in the world - if we ever feel disenchanted with our vater- or motherland, we wouldn't hesitate to up sticks and settle somewhere more conducive (and because we can afford it and have the right passport, we don't have to be labelled as a refugee - even though we're doing exactly what they want to do).

Refugees tend to be people who don't want to leave their homeland. Economic migrants (like us) are looking for greener pastures and we tend to have the wherewithal to achieve this. Either way, people who relocate are hungry for opportunities and are prepared to work hard to improve their lives and live with decency and dignity - often not for themselves but for their children.

Much of the crisis is indirectly the fault of meddling politics and corruption of our Western military-industrial politics and economies, it's not just about religion and crazy Muslims. The majority of Syrians (and other refugees) would be very happy to ditch their religion - it's been forced upon them anyway, just as in Europe most of us (or our grandparents) were forced to be Catholics or Protestants. And those Muslims who do want to continue practicing their religion will most likely want to do so in a far more moderate manner (in Europe, we can all enjoy wine and beer without getting our hands chopped off, and we can discuss our religious beliefs and question it and even be blasphemous). If I were a moderate Muslim, the last place I'd want to live in is a Muslim country! Besides, many of the refugees are Christian or some other religion anyway.

Sure, many of the refugees are uncouth and uneducated, even lazy. I was also, as a young 'asylum seeker' from South Africa during the Apartheid era. I got civilized quite quickly after I moved to the UK. And I gained work experience, greater expertise in my field, started companies, employed people, made and spent money - I became a good economic citizen: a consumer!

Blocking refugees is tantamount to murder (at least accessory to murder). By blocking refugees, we are condoning people trafficking, organized crime and putting people's lives in mortal danger. It's time we stopped this nonsense and find ways to bring in these people and their families. We can afford it. And not only can we afford it (because it doesn't cost us anything, it's a relatively simple matter of borrowing against the future which we do all the time, particularly for the financial and military industries, and social services) - the investment that we make now will pay back dividends in the future. Refugees are good for our economies - they create new industries, we get cheap labour (without having to rely on workhouses or child/slave labour in China or India) and we gain an entirely new demographic of young(er) people who will pay for our pensions and healthcare when we're too old to work for ourselves!

It's morally right and in our best interests to let them in and take care of them!

Sorry to say so, but you are the perfect example of christian correctness, which attitude eventually will destroy Europe. And by the way Europeans did not put these people in these boats.

Christian correctness, or an enslaver of peoples to capital? Look at this talk of how great cheap labour is. Never mind if we cram more and more diverse people (many of whom hate one another) into the cities as long as the economy benefits. We can't have higher wages and lower profits now, can we, not to mention quality of life for the rank and file...

[boomerangutang]

Searat7, on 07 Mar 2016 - 08:49, said:

Turkey police and navy must be just standing by watching overloaded boats leave their shores...most likely some money is changing hands to look the other way. If human traffickers were not able to operate so freely there I think the end result might be very different.

Exactly.

It is time Merkel & Co realised that Turkey is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Precisely. Turkey is simply ignoring the trafficking. It suits the agenda of Erdogan and his gang. Why isn't the UN banging on about Turkey ignoring international law, allowing or even facilitating people trafficking of illegal immigrants, and threatening them with sanctions?

UN is quite happy to slag Europe off for not accepting illegal immigrants and giving them vast handouts but not willing to comment on the country doing nothing to uphold the law and prevent them.

UN is a joke and opportunist Turkey must be laughing their heads off at how dumb Merkel and her cronies are.

Why knock Turkey? It's not Turks in those boats, though the traffickers may be Turks, but any nationality of punks would take advantage of the dire situation. Turks are not laughing their heads off. Many are sacrificing/volunteering to do what they can to help the destitute. The country leaders, tho far from perfect, are at least allowing Syrians to camp on their territory. If you want to lay blame, lay it on the warring factions and/or on the parents who are risking their children's lives to try and get to countries which have trees, lakes, welfare, and kind open-hearted people. Places where there's some freedom of thought and where people aren't killing each other over religion.

Sadly, many of the immigrants' children will grow up and channel their teenage/early 20's anger toward their hosts. Expect Europe to be a breeding ground for discontented/angry Muslim radicals. It may only be 1%, but 1% of 5 million is 50,000. Already the migrant #'s are over 1 million (in the past year) and it won't be surprising if Europe gets to 2.5 million by September, and 5 million by Sept. 2017. Merkel, more than any other politician, opened the floodgates. It's estimated Belgium will be the first European country to be governed by Sharia Law. When? No one knows, but possibly before 2020.

[jesimps]

I'm sickened by the appalling and callous treatment of these refugees and, like Alexander Betts, I am ashamed to be European.

We are nearly all of us refugees or economic migrants of one kind or another. Every single American, Australian, Israeli or (white) South African comes from some kind of refugee background. All of us living in Thailand are economic migrants (and very privileged ones at that)! Sure, many Brits and Germans and French people can perhaps claim to be "pure blood", but we enjoy the freedom to choose where we want to live and work, virtually anywhere in the world - if we ever feel disenchanted with our vater- or motherland, we wouldn't hesitate to up sticks and settle somewhere more conducive (and because we can afford it and have the right passport, we don't have to be labelled as a refugee - even though we're doing exactly what they want to do).

Refugees tend to be people who don't want to leave their homeland. Economic migrants (like us) are looking for greener pastures and we tend to have the wherewithal to achieve this. Either way, people who relocate are hungry for opportunities and are prepared to work hard to improve their lives and live with decency and dignity - often not for themselves but for their children.

Much of the crisis is indirectly the fault of meddling politics and corruption of our Western military-industrial politics and economies, it's not just about religion and crazy Muslims. The majority of Syrians (and other refugees) would be very happy to ditch their religion - it's been forced upon them anyway, just as in Europe most of us (or our grandparents) were forced to be Catholics or Protestants. And those Muslims who do want to continue practicing their religion will most likely want to do so in a far more moderate manner (in Europe, we can all enjoy wine and beer without getting our hands chopped off, and we can discuss our religious beliefs and question it and even be blasphemous). If I were a moderate Muslim, the last place I'd want to live in is a Muslim country! Besides, many of the refugees are Christian or some other religion anyway.

Sure, many of the refugees are uncouth and uneducated, even lazy. I was also, as a young 'asylum seeker' from South Africa during the Apartheid era. I got civilized quite quickly after I moved to the UK. And I gained work experience, greater expertise in my field, started companies, employed people, made and spent money - I became a good economic citizen: a consumer!

Blocking refugees is tantamount to murder (at least accessory to murder). By blocking refugees, we are condoning people trafficking, organized crime and putting people's lives in mortal danger. It's time we stopped this nonsense and find ways to bring in these people and their families. We can afford it. And not only can we afford it (because it doesn't cost us anything, it's a relatively simple matter of borrowing against the future which we do all the time, particularly for the financial and military industries, and social services) - the investment that we make now will pay back dividends in the future. Refugees are good for our economies - they create new industries, we get cheap labour (without having to rely on workhouses or child/slave labour in China or India) and we gain an entirely new demographic of young(er) people who will pay for our pensions and healthcare when we're too old to work for ourselves!

It's morally right and in our best interests to let them in and take care of them!

Somebody pass me the scourge, I want to give myself a good flogging!

That post is possibly the biggest load of blx I've ever read on TV forum. Far too many ridiculous points to bother responding to them all.

[tomacht8]

I'm sickened by the appalling and callous treatment of these refugees and, like Alexander Betts, I am ashamed to be European.

We are nearly all of us refugees or economic migrants of one kind or another. Every single American, Australian, Israeli or (white) South African comes from some kind of refugee background. All of us living in Thailand are economic migrants (and very privileged ones at that)! Sure, many Brits and Germans and French people can perhaps claim to be "pure blood", but we enjoy the freedom to choose where we want to live and work, virtually anywhere in the world - if we ever feel disenchanted with our vater- or motherland, we wouldn't hesitate to up sticks and settle somewhere more conducive (and because we can afford it and have the right passport, we don't have to be labelled as a refugee - even though we're doing exactly what they want to do).

Refugees tend to be people who don't want to leave their homeland. Economic migrants (like us) are looking for greener pastures and we tend to have the wherewithal to achieve this. Either way, people who relocate are hungry for opportunities and are prepared to work hard to improve their lives and live with decency and dignity - often not for themselves but for their children.

Much of the crisis is indirectly the fault of meddling politics and corruption of our Western military-industrial politics and economies, it's not just about religion and crazy Muslims. The majority of Syrians (and other refugees) would be very happy to ditch their religion - it's been forced upon them anyway, just as in Europe most of us (or our grandparents) were forced to be Catholics or Protestants. And those Muslims who do want to continue practicing their religion will most likely want to do so in a far more moderate manner (in Europe, we can all enjoy wine and beer without getting our hands chopped off, and we can discuss our religious beliefs and question it and even be blasphemous). If I were a moderate Muslim, the last place I'd want to live in is a Muslim country! Besides, many of the refugees are Christian or some other religion anyway.

Sure, many of the refugees are uncouth and uneducated, even lazy. I was also, as a young 'asylum seeker' from South Africa during the Apartheid era. I got civilized quite quickly after I moved to the UK. And I gained work experience, greater expertise in my field, started companies, employed people, made and spent money - I became a good economic citizen: a consumer!

Blocking refugees is tantamount to murder (at least accessory to murder). By blocking refugees, we are condoning people trafficking, organized crime and putting people's lives in mortal danger. It's time we stopped this nonsense and find ways to bring in these people and their families. We can afford it. And not only can we afford it (because it doesn't cost us anything, it's a relatively simple matter of borrowing against the future which we do all the time, particularly for the financial and military industries, and social services) - the investment that we make now will pay back dividends in the future. Refugees are good for our economies - they create new industries, we get cheap labour (without having to rely on workhouses or child/slave labour in China or India) and we gain an entirely new demographic of young(er) people who will pay for our pensions and healthcare when we're too old to work for ourselves!

It's morally right and in our best interests to let them in and take care of them!

Somebody pass me the scourge, I want to give myself a good flogging!

That post is possibly the biggest load of blx I've ever read on TV forum. Far too many ridiculous points to bother responding to them all.

Indeed, a very childlike, naive view.

We are all kind to each other and caress us.

Fun in the petting zoo for all.

The real world does work and looks unfortunately different.

[RapidMethod]

The responses to my post above is what sickens me, these are the attitudes that are allowing the misery and death to continue.

Even if are not the offspring of immigrants/refugees, we certainly benefit from the efforts of our ancestors. We are no more "entitled" to our privileged lives in the West than are the Syrians or anyone else. Very few of us can say that we actively contributed to the infrastructure and economy or politics of our homeland. And, every one of us expats here is an Economic Migrant, we're doing just what the Syrian refugees are doing except that we made a choice to leave home - they didn't really have that choice.

To baerboxer, it's such hubris to expect ordinary people to "solve" the problems of their own country. I was an inexperienced, naive, fairly ignorant 20-year old when I escaped South Africa. I was required to kill people to "defend my country", people who were either citizens who happened to have dark skin or were residents of a country illegally occupied by South Africa. I refused. There was no way I would be able to solve the problems of Apartheid, other than go underground and join the resistance movement or something. I wasn't prepared to be a killer or a martyr. If you were in my position, what would YOU do? In my case, it turns out that I didn't need to seek asylum after all because I dug up a British ancestor so I was "entitled" to be European. But digging further back, my great grandparents were refugees also, from Eastern Europe.

Whether we come from refugee ancestors or were born to a "native" family, none of us are any more entitled to our heritage than anyone else - unless you contributed personally to building infrastructure or improving the economy or benefiting the community in some way. Most of us only contribute in the sense that we are consumers, and lead privileged lives because of our ancestors and an accident of birth.

It seems no-one watched Alexander Bett's talk either and then just wrote a knee-jerk response to my post. His studies show that refugees/immigrants create employment on the whole, they aren't a drain on resources; 40% of the workforce of immigrant-owned businesses are local citizens!

It's interesting how the most vociferous comments come from people taking full social and economic advantage of living in Thailand, rather than stay at home and contribute to their local economies and be active in solving the problems of their own country.

And of those living the life of Riley here in Thailand, how many have actually bothered to learn Thai and integrate with Thai society, accept the Buddhist religion or are actively contributing to improving the economy and solving the socio-economic-political problems in Thailand?

Edited March 7, 2016 by RapidMethod

[Galactus]

Searat7, on 07 Mar 2016 - 08:49, said:

Turkey police and navy must be just standing by watching overloaded boats leave their shores...most likely some money is changing hands to look the other way. If human traffickers were not able to operate so freely there I think the end result might be very different.

Exactly.

It is time Merkel & Co realised that Turkey is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

selfish thinking.

you say no migrants to Europe and when Turkey opened the doors ajar for them, you blame them or surprised? like you maybe they dont want more migrants too?

so you say, let Turks deal with all those extra millions of migrants - on top of 3 million they are taking care now, being the country with most migrant population on earth now! - and you enjoy migrant free life in Europe! and dont care what is going on?? funny:)

turks also having a lot of problems with migrants (crime, jobs taken by Syrians working cheaper, syrians are arabs not turks so their transition to turkish society is not painless same as the migrants in Europe etc etc) and national threat as some migrants came from Syria bombed cities in turkey recently, hundreds dead.

And not counting around 10 billion euros spent so far for migrants by turks like they are the richest country.

moreover, politically, trump card is in turks' hand anyway in this case and they will of course use it for their own interest like any country. why is it so surprising when turks are doing it? any country does the same.

you might be naive on your thoughts but turks are not that stupid it looks like together with greece as they also opened their borders like Turkey. You cannot expect a country or two to handle all those migrants for you!

actually, you have to appreciate Turks keeping at least 3 million (and more unofficially) migrants at their country. What if they open their land borders just send them all to Europe? EU could do nothign if they did so.

or what if they act selfish and dont let those migrants to enter turkey? those migrants were dead or slaves now in the hands of ISIS or bloody Assad regime.

please think about these and dont be selfish. we are all human first of all before being European or migrant etc.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Galactus

[superal]

The responses to my post above is what sickens me, these are the attitudes that are allowing the misery and death to continue.

Even if are not the offspring of immigrants/refugees, we certainly benefit from the efforts of our ancestors. We are no more "entitled" to our privileged lives in the West than are the Syrians or anyone else. Very few of us can say that we actively contributed to the infrastructure and economy or politics of our homeland. And, every one of us expats here is an Economic Migrant, we're doing just what the Syrian refugees are doing except that we made a choice to leave home - they didn't really have that choice.

To baerboxer, it's such hubris to expect ordinary people to "solve" the problems of their own country. I was an inexperienced, naive, fairly ignorant 20-year old when I escaped South Africa. I was required to kill people to "defend my country", people who were either citizens who happened to have dark skin or were residents of a country illegally occupied by South Africa. I refused. There was no way I would be able to solve the problems of Apartheid, other than go underground and join the resistance movement or something. I wasn't prepared to be a killer or a martyr. If you were in my position, what would YOU do? In my case, it turns out that I didn't need to seek asylum after all because I dug up a British ancestor so I was "entitled" to be European. But digging further back, my great grandparents were refugees also, from Eastern Europe.

Whether we come from refugee ancestors or were born to a "native" family, none of us are any more entitled to our heritage than anyone else - unless you contributed personally to building infrastructure or improving the economy or benefiting the community in some way. Most of us only contribute in the sense that we are consumers, and lead privileged lives because of our ancestors and an accident of birth.

It seems no-one watched Alexander Bett's talk either and then just wrote a knee-jerk response to my post. His studies show that refugees/immigrants create employment on the whole, they aren't a drain on resources; 40% of the workforce of immigrant-owned businesses are local citizens!

It's interesting how the most vociferous comments come from people taking full social and economic advantage of living in Thailand, rather than stay at home and contribute to their local economies and be active in solving the problems of their own country.

And of those living the life of Riley here in Thailand, how many have actually bothered to learn Thai and integrate with Thai society, accept the Buddhist religion or are actively contributing to improving the economy and solving the socio-economic-political problems in Thailand?

It seems no-one watched Alexander Bett's talk either and then just wrote a knee-jerk response to my post. His studies show that refugees/immigrants create employment on the whole, they aren't a drain on resources; 40% of the workforce of immigrant-owned businesses are local citizens!

I beg to differ as the hospitals , doctor surgeries and schools are at bursting point and all caused by immigration and/or economic migrants .Then there is the massive housing shortage . Not so long ago I could get a same day appointment with my local GP but now the standard waiting time is 3 weeks unless you have an emergency . Junior hospital doctors are working 90 hours a week to try to keep up with demand . Teachers are leaving the profession in droves to mitigate the stress from overfilled classrooms . Many of these immigrants come without any human morals or respect for law and order . The British public have been let down and ignored by successive governments . Charity starts at home but not in the UK where OAPs are paid a small pension compared to other EC countries and then expected to try to understand the benefit system to claim additional monies . However foreign aid and migrant financial assistance is generous to the point of frustration . I could go on and on but to finish will say that the UK is no longer the country of my forefathers and if they were able to walk the streets of many towns today they would be thinking where the <deleted> am I ? . Finally I would love to ask the likes of David Cameron ( an old Etonian with an extensive private education ) why he wanted to become prime minister when the annual wage is around 165,000 pounds when he could easily have secured a high flying career in the big city , or maybe he is a friend of Mr. Blair . These politicians do not give a flying <deleted> about anyone accept themselves and business cronies = import cheap labour cut production costs and increase business profits .

[wabothai]

The responses to my post above is what sickens me, these are the attitudes that are allowing the misery and death to continue.

Even if are not the offspring of immigrants/refugees, we certainly benefit from the efforts of our ancestors. We are no more "entitled" to our privileged lives in the West than are the Syrians or anyone else. Very few of us can say that we actively contributed to the infrastructure and economy or politics of our homeland. And, every one of us expats here is an Economic Migrant, we're doing just what the Syrian refugees are doing except that we made a choice to leave home - they didn't really have that choice.

To baerboxer, it's such hubris to expect ordinary people to "solve" the problems of their own country. I was an inexperienced, naive, fairly ignorant 20-year old when I escaped South Africa. I was required to kill people to "defend my country", people who were either citizens who happened to have dark skin or were residents of a country illegally occupied by South Africa. I refused. There was no way I would be able to solve the problems of Apartheid, other than go underground and join the resistance movement or something. I wasn't prepared to be a killer or a martyr. If you were in my position, what would YOU do? In my case, it turns out that I didn't need to seek asylum after all because I dug up a British ancestor so I was "entitled" to be European. But digging further back, my great grandparents were refugees also, from Eastern Europe.

Whether we come from refugee ancestors or were born to a "native" family, none of us are any more entitled to our heritage than anyone else - unless you contributed personally to building infrastructure or improving the economy or benefiting the community in some way. Most of us only contribute in the sense that we are consumers, and lead privileged lives because of our ancestors and an accident of birth.

It seems no-one watched Alexander Bett's talk either and then just wrote a knee-jerk response to my post. His studies show that refugees/immigrants create employment on the whole, they aren't a drain on resources; 40% of the workforce of immigrant-owned businesses are local citizens!

It's interesting how the most vociferous comments come from people taking full social and economic advantage of living in Thailand, rather than stay at home and contribute to their local economies and be active in solving the problems of their own country.

And of those living the life of Riley here in Thailand, how many have actually bothered to learn Thai and integrate with Thai society, accept the Buddhist religion or are actively contributing to improving the economy and solving the socio-economic-political problems in Thailand?

You haven't been here very long, have you?

[baboon]

"The responses to my post above is what sickens me, these are the attitudes that are allowing the misery and death to continue."

To which the obvious retort is "Fella, I did not create the misery on the planet, so why should I be responsible for footing the bill for it, both financially and figuratively." There is only so much that one can do, even by those with the loftiest ideals. You are naive if you think otherwise.

"Very few of us can say that we actively contributed to the infrastructure and economy or politics of our homeland."

Other than working, paying taxes, refraining from crime, donating to charity/giving blood, calling an ambulance for a stranger. What more do you expect from the average Joe? He does have one or two of his own problems, you know.

"And, every one of us expats here is an Economic Migrant, we're doing just what the Syrian refugees are doing except that we made a choice to leave home.."

You might be, I am not.

Edited March 7, 2016 by baboon

[Galactus]

"We are nearly all of us refugees or economic migrants of one kind or another."

No we aren't.

"..but we enjoy the freedom to choose where we want to live and work, virtually anywhere in the world - if we ever feel disenchanted with our vater- or motherland, we wouldn't hesitate to up sticks and settle somewhere more conducive (and because we can afford it and have the right passport.."

Millions upon millions of westerners can't afford it. Do you seriously think folk love living in grotty housing estates, or aren't terrified they are one paycheck away from destitution?

"It's time we stopped this nonsense and find ways to bring in these people and their families. We can afford it."

No we can't. We are bankrupt.

"...we get cheap labour (without having to rely on workhouses or child/slave labour in China or India)..."

We have plenty of cheap labour. Why do you think the minimum wage only goes up by a few coins if at all?

"..and we gain an entirely new demographic of young(er) people who will pay for our pensions and healthcare when we're too old to work for ourselves!"

And who will pay their pensions?

Accommodating people who are genuinely in fear of their lives is one thing, but we simply do not have the money, resources and apperatus necessary to welcome the world's wretched. Sure, it sucks, but the world simply is what it is.

so anyway, apart from some word salad, what is your solution?

one of these?:

- executing all migrants in europe.

- Let them die in Syria in the hands of isis, assad, kurds and russia.

- Let all of them stay in turkey, turks are not human anyway and they are very rich to accommodate 5 million migrants. they are also muslim so let muslim feed muslim, why Europeans?

- Let them all drown if they dont, hire some thugs to drown them.

- paying human smugglers to fool and smuggle those migrants to USA (or hell) instead of Europe.

- Right time for a manned colony mission to Mars. Lets put all those migrants in a space ship and send them to Mars!

i mean just try to be reasonable and dont be selfish. EU has no way to go anyway, you accept or not.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Galactus

[baboon]

"We are nearly all of us refugees or economic migrants of one kind or another."

No we aren't.

"..but we enjoy the freedom to choose where we want to live and work, virtually anywhere in the world - if we ever feel disenchanted with our vater- or motherland, we wouldn't hesitate to up sticks and settle somewhere more conducive (and because we can afford it and have the right passport.."

Millions upon millions of westerners can't afford it. Do you seriously think folk love living in grotty housing estates, or aren't terrified they are one paycheck away from destitution?

"It's time we stopped this nonsense and find ways to bring in these people and their families. We can afford it."

No we can't. We are bankrupt.

"...we get cheap labour (without having to rely on workhouses or child/slave labour in China or India)..."

We have plenty of cheap labour. Why do you think the minimum wage only goes up by a few coins if at all?

"..and we gain an entirely new demographic of young(er) people who will pay for our pensions and healthcare when we're too old to work for ourselves!"

And who will pay their pensions?

Accommodating people who are genuinely in fear of their lives is one thing, but we simply do not have the money, resources and apperatus necessary to welcome the world's wretched. Sure, it sucks, but the world simply is what it is.

so anyway, apart from some word salad, what is your solution?

one of these?:

- executing all migrants in europe.

- Let them die in Syria in the hands of isis, assad, kurds and russia.

- Let all of them stay in turkey, turks are not human anyway and they are very rich to accommodate 5 million migrants. they are also muslim so let muslim feed muslim, why Europeans?

- Let them all drown if they dont, hire some thugs to drown them.

- paying human smugglers to fool and smuggle those migrants to USA (or hell) instead of Europe.

- Right time for a manned colony mission to Mars. Lets put all those migrants in a space ship and send them to Mars!

i mean just try to be reasonable and dont be selfish. EU has no way to go anyway, you accept or not.

"so anyway, apart from some word salad, what is your solution?"

A perfectly fair and reasonable question, however you are making the assumption that because a problem exists, so does a palatable solution for all parties. If there is one, I certainly don't know what it is.

I shall ignore the other sarcastic flapdoodle if that is all the same to you.

[Galactus]

"We are nearly all of us refugees or economic migrants of one kind or another."

No we aren't.

"..but we enjoy the freedom to choose where we want to live and work, virtually anywhere in the world - if we ever feel disenchanted with our vater- or motherland, we wouldn't hesitate to up sticks and settle somewhere more conducive (and because we can afford it and have the right passport.."

Millions upon millions of westerners can't afford it. Do you seriously think folk love living in grotty housing estates, or aren't terrified they are one paycheck away from destitution?

"It's time we stopped this nonsense and find ways to bring in these people and their families. We can afford it."

No we can't. We are bankrupt.

"...we get cheap labour (without having to rely on workhouses or child/slave labour in China or India)..."

We have plenty of cheap labour. Why do you think the minimum wage only goes up by a few coins if at all?

"..and we gain an entirely new demographic of young(er) people who will pay for our pensions and healthcare when we're too old to work for ourselves!"

And who will pay their pensions?

Accommodating people who are genuinely in fear of their lives is one thing, but we simply do not have the money, resources and apperatus necessary to welcome the world's wretched. Sure, it sucks, but the world simply is what it is.

so anyway, apart from some word salad, what is your solution?

one of these?:

- executing all migrants in europe.

- Let them die in Syria in the hands of isis, assad, kurds and russia.

- Let all of them stay in turkey, turks are not human anyway and they are very rich to accommodate 5 million migrants. they are also muslim so let muslim feed muslim, why Europeans?

- Let them all drown if they dont, hire some thugs to drown them.

- paying human smugglers to fool and smuggle those migrants to USA (or hell) instead of Europe.

- Right time for a manned colony mission to Mars. Lets put all those migrants in a space ship and send them to Mars!

i mean just try to be reasonable and dont be selfish. EU has no way to go anyway, you accept or not.

"so anyway, apart from some word salad, what is your solution?"

A perfectly fair and reasonable question, however you are making the assumption that because a problem exists, so does a palatable solution for all parties. If there is one, I certainly don't know what it is.

I shall ignore the other sarcastic flapdoodle if that is all the same to you.

yep. solution trains left the station.

i believe if they created and allowed a no fly demilitarized zone in syria, no problems now as we all had a chance to take care of those migrants in syria.

but usa and europe did not allow that fearing like turks might annex land. now all those migrants sold their land and houses and they have no chance to return back.

now merkel supports this but too late for millions still another million might be prevented to reach europe this way.

and as a part of a solution, at least you can accept the reality and dont think negative towards migrants.

[tomacht8]

The responses to my post above is what sickens me, these are the attitudes that are allowing the misery and death to continue.

Even if are not the offspring of immigrants/refugees, we certainly benefit from the efforts of our ancestors. We are no more "entitled" to our privileged lives in the West than are the Syrians or anyone else. Very few of us can say that we actively contributed to the infrastructure and economy or politics of our homeland. And, every one of us expats here is an Economic Migrant, we're doing just what the Syrian refugees are doing except that we made a choice to leave home - they didn't really have that choice.

To baerboxer, it's such hubris to expect ordinary people to "solve" the problems of their own country. I was an inexperienced, naive, fairly ignorant 20-year old when I escaped South Africa. I was required to kill people to "defend my country", people who were either citizens who happened to have dark skin or were residents of a country illegally occupied by South Africa. I refused. There was no way I would be able to solve the problems of Apartheid, other than go underground and join the resistance movement or something. I wasn't prepared to be a killer or a martyr. If you were in my position, what would YOU do? In my case, it turns out that I didn't need to seek asylum after all because I dug up a British ancestor so I was "entitled" to be European. But digging further back, my great grandparents were refugees also, from Eastern Europe.

Whether we come from refugee ancestors or were born to a "native" family, none of us are any more entitled to our heritage than anyone else - unless you contributed personally to building infrastructure or improving the economy or benefiting the community in some way. Most of us only contribute in the sense that we are consumers, and lead privileged lives because of our ancestors and an accident of birth.

It seems no-one watched Alexander Bett's talk either and then just wrote a knee-jerk response to my post. His studies show that refugees/immigrants create employment on the whole, they aren't a drain on resources; 40% of the workforce of immigrant-owned businesses are local citizens!

It's interesting how the most vociferous comments come from people taking full social and economic advantage of living in Thailand, rather than stay at home and contribute to their local economies and be active in solving the problems of their own country.

And of those living the life of Riley here in Thailand, how many have actually bothered to learn Thai and integrate with Thai society, accept the Buddhist religion or are actively contributing to improving the economy and solving the socio-economic-political problems in Thailand?

Are you trying here to add and sell your Thai Seminars through the back door ?

On the subject:

Go look in a library and look for books with titles such as:

- The largest mass migrations in history and its consequences.

- Average duration of integration of migrants.Duration, cost, problems, case studies.

- 55 years Turks in Germany. State of integration efforts.

- Sustainability issues, population growth and world food issues.

- The history and the suffering of the Mayas, Incas and native americans (Indians).

- The largest religious wars in human history. Reasons, objectives, strategies and consequences.

- Mankind, skin cancer of the earth or a blessing?

It is not about a couple of war and economic refugees.

This is about unlimited cross-border population movements of many many millions of people who migrate into sensitive but quite stable and peaceful systems / societys. Such massive migrations it has not seen since World War 2 on our planet.

And what are you talking about cheap workers is nonsense.

Countries such as Spain, Italy and Greece are struggling with a youth unemployment rate that matches between 25-35%.

How can europe integrate these crowds (millions of people)?

All are:

- mostly muslims,

- mostly young men,

- mostly uneducated,

- many are from unrest and

war zones which bring this struggle mentality with them,

- all poor with no money

unable to care for themselves long-term,

- mostly with no relationship

to our culture,

- 99% do not understand for example the german language,

- a very high percentage are illiterate, etc

The integration from these people in that quantities is 100% impossible in short, medium and long term.

And the number of inhabitants per square kilometer has also multiplied over the past 50 years.

The EU governments knows this, but they no report this to the public.

Who should pay for it all?

This silly migration policy is destroying our social security systems.

The refugees do not come to europe because we are so nice and they respect our culture and laws, no,

because they getting free 400 Euro lunch money + 500 Euro for housing and free health insurance!

Btw. If I were an economic migrant, i would also try to reach this affluent situation.

But many EU counties definitely have not millions of jobs for uneducated, non native language speaking foreigners.

Where those millions of people could find work to take care of themselves?

All at McDonalds?

Many EU countries have no simple professions that you can just learn in 6 weeks without language skills.

Nurse, elderly care, construction, catering, agriculture are all apprenticeships with at least 3 years of learning time.

So when will be the first integrated refugee from millions, to be able to pay his first Euro in the treasury?

What a refinancing lie!

Better You stop to play on your harp.

Edited March 7, 2016 by tomacht8

[RapidMethod]

"And, every one of us expats here is an Economic Migrant, we're doing just what the Syrian refugees are doing except that we made a choice to leave home.."

You might be, I am not.

baboon, an "economic migrant" is someone who decides to move to another country in order to improve their quality of life. Unless you are a short-term tourist or doing missionary work, you are an economic migrant in Thailand. You are taking full advantage of the cheaper lifestyle, easier women and benefits that expats - and some women - traditionally enjoy in Thailand.

Go look in a library and look for books with titles such as: - The largest mass migrations in history and its consequences.

I suppose the largest mass migration was the one where Europeans migrated to America, followed by the Brits (and some Irish) moving to Australia. The Dutch, British and French Huguenots migrated en mass to South Africa. I think Jews migrating to Palestine, over the course of a few decades, was also a pretty large migration. I think we all know the consequences of these migrations.

I'm not so sure that a million people integrating into a spread of 'western' countries with a population totaling about 1 billion is going to be so affected. I'm also not sure that the refugees are mostly young, uneducated men although the language issue will be a big problem. The USA and UK printed something like $3 trillion dollars to hold back (or delay) the sub-prime financial crisis, I think the cost of the war in Iraq cost over $2 trillion and counting. There's plenty of money for the financial and military industries when it's wanted. And, yes, integrating a million refugees will be expensive, perhaps around €20 billion p.a. (about two aircraft carriers) for maybe 3 years. Dealing with unemployment amongst refugees and Greeks and Italians also isn't easy. (Although Betts' studies have shown that refugees and immigrants do create employment for local/native people also.)

All I'm saying is that we aren't all that different. Refugees are as skilled or as ignorant as any European or American, they're less prepared and not as well financed as we are. As economic migrants, we had time to choose and plan where to go. Refugees are usually forced out of their home countries with nothing but what they can carry. Don't be so smug: "there but for the grace of God, go I".

Life wouldn't be so cozy for us if we arrived in Thailand with no money, not being able to speak Thai and no prospects of a job. But at least we could probably join a temple!

Edited March 7, 2016 by RapidMethod

[NeverSure]

-snip- And, every one of us expats here is an Economic Migrant, we're doing just what the Syrian refugees are doing except that we made a choice to leave home - they didn't really have that choice.

Bullshit. The expats are citizens of their home countries and can take refuge there any time they please.

They did not go to Thailand "doing just what the Syrian refugees are doing" because they must prove they can support themselves. They can't even get their Thai wives into Europe or America without proving they can support them.

As for your generality about "Syrian refugees", most of those people are neither Syrian nor are they legally refugees. They are economic invaders who have chosen to go to Europe to get "free stuff" that they didn't and won't earn.

As for "they didn't have a choice" they all have a choice and demonstrate it by wanting to make it all the way to the wealthier UK or Germany instead of being willing to stop where it's safe.

You have been brainwashed to the max by the idiot PC crowd which doesn't have the guts to stand up for its own people. Your belief system is totally and utterly disgusting.

[baboon]

"baboon, an "economic migrant" is someone who decides to move to another country in order to improve their quality of life. Unless you are a short-term tourist or doing missionary work, you are an economic migrant in Thailand. You are taking full advantage of the cheaper lifestyle, easier women and benefits that expats - and some women - traditionally enjoy in Thailand."

I enjoy a different quality of life. I return regularly to the UK for treatment of bladder cancer and you know what? My neighbours on my little soi who are teachers, bank workers and railway supervisors expressed no surprise at all that I would wish to be treated there for various reasons.

I am not a tourist or doing missionary work and have been married and faithful to the same woman since 2005. We frequently don't get along, but I will not abandon her or our daughter apart from death, illness or any other catastrophe out of my control. However if I did, life for me would be cheaper in the UK, not to mention free of visa hassles.

You really ought not to categorise people in your neat mental compartments. Life is far too complex in this day and age.

[sunnyjim5]

I'm sickened by the appalling and callous treatment of these refugees and, like Alexander Betts, I am ashamed to be European.

We are nearly all of us refugees or economic migrants of one kind or another. Every single American, Australian, Israeli or (white) South African comes from some kind of refugee background. All of us living in Thailand are economic migrants (and very privileged ones at that)! Sure, many Brits and Germans and French people can perhaps claim to be "pure blood", but we enjoy the freedom to choose where we want to live and work, virtually anywhere in the world - if we ever feel disenchanted with our vater- or motherland, we wouldn't hesitate to up sticks and settle somewhere more conducive (and because we can afford it and have the right passport, we don't have to be labelled as a refugee - even though we're doing exactly what they want to do).

Refugees tend to be people who don't want to leave their homeland. Economic migrants (like us) are looking for greener pastures and we tend to have the wherewithal to achieve this. Either way, people who relocate are hungry for opportunities and are prepared to work hard to improve their lives and live with decency and dignity - often not for themselves but for their children.

Much of the crisis is indirectly the fault of meddling politics and corruption of our Western military-industrial politics and economies, it's not just about religion and crazy Muslims. The majority of Syrians (and other refugees) would be very happy to ditch their religion - it's been forced upon them anyway, just as in Europe most of us (or our grandparents) were forced to be Catholics or Protestants. And those Muslims who do want to continue practicing their religion will most likely want to do so in a far more moderate manner (in Europe, we can all enjoy wine and beer without getting our hands chopped off, and we can discuss our religious beliefs and question it and even be blasphemous). If I were a moderate Muslim, the last place I'd want to live in is a Muslim country! Besides, many of the refugees are Christian or some other religion anyway.

Sure, many of the refugees are uncouth and uneducated, even lazy. I was also, as a young 'asylum seeker' from South Africa during the Apartheid era. I got civilized quite quickly after I moved to the UK. And I gained work experience, greater expertise in my field, started companies, employed people, made and spent money - I became a good economic citizen: a consumer!

Blocking refugees is tantamount to murder (at least accessory to murder). By blocking refugees, we are condoning people trafficking, organized crime and putting people's lives in mortal danger. It's time we stopped this nonsense and find ways to bring in these people and their families. We can afford it. And not only can we afford it (because it doesn't cost us anything, it's a relatively simple matter of borrowing against the future which we do all the time, particularly for the financial and military industries, and social services) - the investment that we make now will pay back dividends in the future. Refugees are good for our economies - they create new industries, we get cheap labour (without having to rely on workhouses or child/slave labour in China or India) and we gain an entirely new demographic of young(er) people who will pay for our pensions and healthcare when we're too old to work for ourselves!

It's morally right and in our best interests to let them in and take care of them!

How many "refugees" are you caring for in your home ?

Have you secured safe alternative accommodation for the female members of your family?

Edited March 7, 2016 by sunnyjim5

[baboon]

-snip- And, every one of us expats here is an Economic Migrant, we're doing just what the Syrian refugees are doing except that we made a choice to leave home - they didn't really have that choice.

Bullshit. The expats are citizens of their home countries and can take refuge there any time they please.

They did not go to Thailand "doing just what the Syrian refugees are doing" because they must prove they can support themselves. They can't even get their Thai wives into Europe or America without proving they can support them.

As for your generality about "Syrian refugees", most of those people are neither Syrian nor are they legally refugees. They are economic invaders who have chosen to go to Europe to get "free stuff" that they didn't and won't earn.

As for "they didn't have a choice" they all have a choice and demonstrate it by wanting to make it all the way to the wealthier UK or Germany instead of being willing to stop where it's safe.

You have been brainwashed to the max by the idiot PC crowd which doesn't have the guts to stand up for its own people. Your belief system is totally and utterly disgusting.

RapidMethod, I am trying to help you out here, but Sergeant NeverSure has a bit of a temper and can get a bit excitable. I think you ought to sign this sheet of paper before he gets upset... Edited March 7, 2016 by baboon

[Thechook]

I'm sickened by the appalling and callous treatment of these refugees and, like Alexander Betts, I am ashamed to be European.

We are nearly all of us refugees or economic migrants of one kind or another. Every single American, Australian, Israeli or (white) South African comes from some kind of refugee background. All of us living in Thailand are economic migrants (and very privileged ones at that)! Sure, many Brits and Germans and French people can perhaps claim to be "pure blood", but we enjoy the freedom to choose where we want to live and work, virtually anywhere in the world - if we ever feel disenchanted with our vater- or motherland, we wouldn't hesitate to up sticks and settle somewhere more conducive (and because we can afford it and have the right passport, we don't have to be labelled as a refugee - even though we're doing exactly what they want to do).

Refugees tend to be people who don't want to leave their homeland. Economic migrants (like us) are looking for greener pastures and we tend to have the wherewithal to achieve this. Either way, people who relocate are hungry for opportunities and are prepared to work hard to improve their lives and live with decency and dignity - often not for themselves but for their children.

Much of the crisis is indirectly the fault of meddling politics and corruption of our Western military-industrial politics and economies, it's not just about religion and crazy Muslims. The majority of Syrians (and other refugees) would be very happy to ditch their religion - it's been forced upon them anyway, just as in Europe most of us (or our grandparents) were forced to be Catholics or Protestants. And those Muslims who do want to continue practicing their religion will most likely want to do so in a far more moderate manner (in Europe, we can all enjoy wine and beer without getting our hands chopped off, and we can discuss our religious beliefs and question it and even be blasphemous). If I were a moderate Muslim, the last place I'd want to live in is a Muslim country! Besides, many of the refugees are Christian or some other religion anyway.

Sure, many of the refugees are uncouth and uneducated, even lazy. I was also, as a young 'asylum seeker' from South Africa during the Apartheid era. I got civilized quite quickly after I moved to the UK. And I gained work experience, greater expertise in my field, started companies, employed people, made and spent money - I became a good economic citizen: a consumer!

Blocking refugees is tantamount to murder (at least accessory to murder). By blocking refugees, we are condoning people trafficking, organized crime and putting people's lives in mortal danger. It's time we stopped this nonsense and find ways to bring in these people and their families. We can afford it. And not only can we afford it (because it doesn't cost us anything, it's a relatively simple matter of borrowing against the future which we do all the time, particularly for the financial and military industries, and social services) - the investment that we make now will pay back dividends in the future. Refugees are good for our economies - they create new industries, we get cheap labour (without having to rely on workhouses or child/slave labour in China or India) and we gain an entirely new demographic of young(er) people who will pay for our pensions and healthcare when we're too old to work for ourselves!

It's morally right and in our best interests to let them in and take care of them!

if someone breaks into my home to take what is mine it doesn't become my moral obligation to hug and care for him for the rest of my life.