Questions re overstay and court case

[mrnaturally]

I was approached in Hat Yai about six months ago and offered an English teaching job, which I accepted. I went to Penang and got a non b visa (with papers signed by the director of a government school) and went to work. A month later immigration came to the school and arrested all forign teachers. (1 Indian, 1 Paki., 2 American.. none except myself had non b. I spent a month in prison, paid much in bail and fine and was told to come back to the court in 2 weeks to get papers concluding my case, which I did. Shortly thereafter I went to go to Penang to get a new visa as mine was to expire. At the Sadow border I was denied exit because I didnt have the proper paperwork from the court. I returned to the court, got more paperwork, and went back to the border.. exit denied.. more paperwork needed. This happened 3 times. When I finally got the fourth peice of paperwork I needed to exit the country all of my funds were exhausted (I live on disabillity pension from US due to an 8 week coma I suffered as a result of a violent crime I was a victim of 7 yrs ago) I was prepared to go to Bangkok this week and pay my overstay and move to Cambodia, however, now I am told I cannot do this that I must return to the US, which I cannot do because the cost of my overstay fine prohibits it (and even if I could I would be broke and homeless when I get there). My questions are 1) The cause of my overstay was out of my hands. I was arrested, imprisoned and then denied exit in a case that, from my understanding, was unlawful to begin with ( based on the fact i had the proper visa and the school had applied for my work permit). Will immigration take this into account and reduce or waive my fine? 2) Is it a fact tat I must return to the US on exit or can I fly to Cambodia straight away? 3) Will having a case on record impact my attempt to enter Cambodia? Any advice or assistance would be appriciated.

Edited March 13, 2016 by metisdead

[sunnyjim5]

Sounds involved and complicated.

You should speak to your Embassy who will offer advice and provide a list of Thai lawyers.

Without legal advice/assistance I fear you run the risk of further arrest and possible deportation.

I suggest you contact the Embassy without any further delay. Be prepared to share the facts about your arrest ect.

[ubonjoe]

If your court case has been cleared by the court I see no reason you would have to return to the states, The only time it is mandatory to fly to your home country is if you are deported.

Just pay the overstay fine and fly to wherever you want.

[BritTim]

I agree with Joe. If you visit an immigration office (which you did) this is very risky. The correct procedure is just to leave by air. Flying to Cambodia should be fine.

If you had inquired on here, you would have been advised to avoid Sadao at all costs for any kind of unusual situation. They, of course, were looking for a bribe to let you exit.

There is no chance whatsoever that airport immigration will waive your fine. I doubt they even have the power to do that. If arrested, brought before a judge, and deported, the fine will likely be less, but you would need to purchase an expensive direct flight ticket to the US.

Edited March 13, 2016 by BritTim

[sunnyjim5]

I agree with Joe. If you visit an immigration office (which you did) this is very risky. The correct procedure is just to leave my air. Flying to Cambodia should be fine.

If you had inquired on here, you would have been advised to avoid Sadao at all costs for any kind of unusual situation. They, of course, were looking for a bribe to let you exit.

Superficially I agree.

However, it not clear to me that any legal problems have been fully resolved. There was clearly a Stop Notice which prevented exit from the Sadao border.

I understand the OP may be worried but he needs, IMHO, some assistance in determining exactly what his position is now. If indeed it is just a matter of overstay the he should just proceed to the airport but he needs to ensure there is not a Stop Notice which would prevent his departure.

[elviajero]

A comment on your question 1. Although you had a non 'B' visa it does not allow you to work. You can only work once the work permit has been issued. Without a work permit you were working illegally. I believe that as you were working (employed) you are subject to penalty under the Alien Working Act. I doubt any fine would be waived.

[mrnaturally]

I was told by the school that I had 90 days to aquire a work permit. Is this fiction?

[elviajero]

I was told by the school that I had 90 days to aquire a work permit. Is this fiction?

Yep. No visa allows you to work. The "B' visa just gets you a 90 day entry to the country and the right to apply for a work permit. The permission to work comes from the work permit which is issued by the Department of Labour.

The school are also subject to penalty for employing you without a work permit.

[sunnyjim5]

I was told by the school that I had 90 days to aquire a work permit. Is this fiction?

Fiction.

The school should have applied for the WP prior to your obtaining the "B" visa. Had they done so the WP would have been available within a day or so of your obtaining the visa.

It was, of course, illegal to work without the WP.

[mrnaturally]

I know for a fact that my exit papers are intact as the Indian teacher and I went to get our final docs together and he left shortly thereafter.

[PlastikbinLina]

What a mess! I can only tell you what I have experienced with persons who have been arrested for a crime or charged with some misdemeanor in Phuket. After arrest the person charged or involved in a dispute has their passport detained by the court. The court issues a letter that informs the immigration office of the detention and usually the offender or plaintiff is accompanied by an officer of the police or prison to inform the immigration office. Any extension needed because of pending overstay requires the passport holder to extend his/her stay for 90 days. An application along with a duplicate is submitted to the inspector of the immigration office. Following the extension ordered by the court the police or foreigner, if not accompanied returns the passport to the court. During the detention of the PP or prison time by the Thai authorities the foreigner is not considered to be in overstay.After the court case the court issues another letter informing the immigration office of the conclusion. The foreigner is given a 7 day extension and then permitted to leave the country. My experience of this procedure was first hand not third party.

I cannot advise you anything but on the face of it for what you say it seems most unfair for what you underwent. My sympathies.to you.

[jspill]

Almost every teacher here starts working before the work permit arrives, technically not legal but usually it's a non-issue. My sympathies to you as well.

If I was in your shoes I'd buy the flight ticket to Cambodia and attempt to fly out and see what happens, the Sadao border is notoriously difficult, many have issues there for many reasons. I'd go try it right now as on March 20th new rules come into place about overstay.

[Badbanker]

People who have been arrested in Thailand for a crime and are granted bail, continue to come under the jurisdiction of the Thai court responsible, not immigration.

The court will then inform Thai Immigration by court order that you are Blacklisted from exiting the country.

One of the terms of bail that most people are not aware of is, that you have and continue to have a right to get a visa extension.

If you have a 1 year extension of stay it will be canceled and you will be given an under judgment extension of stay, which is extendable for 1900 baht on a month basis.

This extension is not done automatically, but rather on your request for a court order from the court staff from whom you have been allowed bail.

Now I can only speak for the Phuket Criminal Court, Bangkok Criminal Court, Bangkok South Criminal Court and Pattaya Criminal Court where I have experience.

On completion of your case in court, you must request a copy of the court judgment, to present to immigration on your departure, as sometimes the blacklisting from exit has not been taken down.

In the case that you are sentenced to serve time in jail or are given a suspended sentence, under Thai law, your Police case officer has a duty to blacklist you and deport you to your country of origin.

I have seen cases in Phuket of people convicted of working 3 days illegally, and had a difficult Police officer blacklist them and get them deported.

In this case, after 9 months, the Administrative Court in Bangkok overturned the case and canceled the blacklist as it was deemed unreasonable.

If you are arrested and accused of committing a criminal act, it is essential that you remain on good terms with your Police case officer and the court officials to fulfill your duties to them and achieve a good result.

[Kabula]

If you haven't already, it's best to get two legal opinions from competent lawyers that are licensed, with trial experience that specialize in criminal, immigration cases. Avoid lawyers that are not licensed, and the city is full of them. Ask to see their license and if they refuse, leave. Ask to speak with a senior partner. They say they are lawyers, but they are only incompetent paralegals. Large law firms have political connections. There is little justice in the world today and to risk your future with responses from here and paralegals is not recommended.

[BritTim]

My sense is that the OP is not exactly rolling in money. Also, the March 19 (one day before the new regulations go into effect) is looming. I agree, if funds allow, talking to a good lawyer is prudent. However, if this would mean that he would be leaving after March 20th, or have insufficient funds to leave, he will need to quickly try to verify his position, perhaps by trying to phone the court officials, and (if there is no obvious impediment to leaving) leave on a flight somewhere. A flight to Laos should be avoided, however.

[ThaiWai]

I was told by the school that I had 90 days to aquire a work permit. Is this fiction?

Not sure how you got your Non-B without the document/receipt from the Labor Office indicating you had already applied for the WP. It was required of me when I got a Non-B in Singapore.

It went:

1. Apply for WP in Thailand, get receipt.

2. Leave Thailand for Non-B

3. Return to Labor Office in Thailand with Non-B, WP issued.

4. Don't get arrested and go to jail

[ubonjoe]

I was told by the school that I had 90 days to aquire a work permit. Is this fiction?

Not sure how you got your Non-B without the document/receipt from the Labor Office indicating you had already applied for the WP. It was required of me when I got a Non-B in Singapore.

It went:

1. Apply for WP in Thailand, get receipt.

2. Leave Thailand for Non-B

3. Return to Labor Office in Thailand with Non-B, WP issued.

4. Don't get arrested and go to jail

A work permit or a work permit application approval letter is not required to apply for a non-b visa for teaching.

[ajarnmarc]

People who have been arrested in Thailand for a crime and are granted bail, continue to come under the jurisdiction of the Thai court responsible, not immigration.

The court will then inform Thai Immigration by court order that you are Blacklisted from exiting the country.

One of the terms of bail that most people are not aware of is, that you have and continue to have a right to get a visa extension.

If you have a 1 year extension of stay it will be canceled and you will be given an under judgment extension of stay, which is extendable for 1900 baht on a month basis.

This extension is not done automatically, but rather on your request for a court order from the court staff from whom you have been allowed bail.

Now I can only speak for the Phuket Criminal Court, Bangkok Criminal Court, Bangkok South Criminal Court and Pattaya Criminal Court where I have experience.

On completion of your case in court, you must request a copy of the court judgment, to present to immigration on your departure, as sometimes the blacklisting from exit has not been taken down.

In the case that you are sentenced to serve time in jail or are given a suspended sentence, under Thai law, your Police case officer has a duty to blacklist you and deport you to your country of origin.

I have seen cases in Phuket of people convicted of working 3 days illegally, and had a difficult Police officer blacklist them and get them deported.

In this case, after 9 months, the Administrative Court in Bangkok overturned the case and canceled the blacklist as it was deemed unreasonable.

If you are arrested and accused of committing a criminal act, it is essential that you remain on good terms with your Police case officer and the court officials to fulfill your duties to them and achieve a good result.

Very informative, and constructive too.

These are the kind of post I look to view,

which can assist and advice people who are caught up in a situation within Thailand,

where answers to issues which arise are not so easy to obtain answers to.

Most would hope to obtain these legal questions or situations to be easily answered from their Embassy,

but as most may already be aware of, the Embassies here for some nationalities are not worth wasting time with.

They simply don't care to get involved.

Fortunately this isn't the case with them all,

just a few of them.

The U.S. Embassy here, in my experience has been the worst,

however the U.S. Embassy in Singapore is outstanding,

and very professional in their duties.

I've viewed the Show "The Embassy",

which covers the Austrian Embassy in Bangkok primarily in the show,

and they truly take their responsibilities here seriously,

and look after their citizens, the best they can.

[mango66]

My sense is that the OP is not exactly rolling in money. Also, the March 19 (one day before the new regulations go into effect) is looming. I agree, if funds allow, talking to a good lawyer is prudent. However, if this would mean that he would be leaving after March 20th, or have insufficient funds to leave, he will need to quickly try to verify his position, perhaps by trying to phone the court officials, and (if there is no obvious impediment to leaving) leave on a flight somewhere. A flight to Laos should be avoided, however.

why a flight to LAOS should be avoided ?

[sunnyjim5]

My sense is that the OP is not exactly rolling in money. Also, the March 19 (one day before the new regulations go into effect) is looming. I agree, if funds allow, talking to a good lawyer is prudent. However, if this would mean that he would be leaving after March 20th, or have insufficient funds to leave, he will need to quickly try to verify his position, perhaps by trying to phone the court officials, and (if there is no obvious impediment to leaving) leave on a flight somewhere. A flight to Laos should be avoided, however.

why a flight to LAOS should be avoided ?

Because some (all?) airlines flying to Laos are said to be refusing boarding to those with overstays ?

[BritTim]

My sense is that the OP is not exactly rolling in money. Also, the March 19 (one day before the new regulations go into effect) is looming. I agree, if funds allow, talking to a good lawyer is prudent. However, if this would mean that he would be leaving after March 20th, or have insufficient funds to leave, he will need to quickly try to verify his position, perhaps by trying to phone the court officials, and (if there is no obvious impediment to leaving) leave on a flight somewhere. A flight to Laos should be avoided, however.

why a flight to LAOS should be avoided ?

Because airlines are refusing to check in passengers to Laos with overstays (on the instructions of Laos immigration). See http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/899515-refused-flight/. Tldr: this is confirmed for Bangkok Airways as well as Lao Airlines.

[timendres]

My sense is that the OP is not exactly rolling in money. Also, the March 19 (one day before the new regulations go into effect) is looming. I agree, if funds allow, talking to a good lawyer is prudent. However, if this would mean that he would be leaving after March 20th, or have insufficient funds to leave, he will need to quickly try to verify his position, perhaps by trying to phone the court officials, and (if there is no obvious impediment to leaving) leave on a flight somewhere. A flight to Laos should be avoided, however.

why a flight to LAOS should be avoided ?

Another poster pointed out that Laos will not allow inbound flights by someone who is leaving Thailand after an overstay.

They were stopped at the airport and refused boarding.