When the surliness begins — what to do?

[PT4]

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A consistent pattern with Thai workers: At first very friendly, very helpful, very eager. But after 6-12 months, attitude changes to surly, bordering on rude. Wondering if others have any better solutions than I do.

I’ve seen it many times, many situations with Thais. Maids especially. Receptionists at condo lobby. Waitresses at restaurants where I’ve been a steady customer. Right now, a maid who has been working for me just over one year. Previous maid, exactly the same. Maid before that, the “change” came at 4-5 months. (And it’s not just a few days a month; not that problem.)

In most cases, I wouldn’t care, as long as I get what I want, such as at restaurants. But with maids it is a bigger problem. With so many jobs available (in Bangkok) a good maid is difficult to find. So when I do find a good one, I treat her with respect and pay her well above average.

At first their work is very good. But always, the attitude changes somewhere between six months to one year. Sullen face. Sluggish work. Arrives later and later. When I explain something or give instructions what is to be done that day, she looks away and seems to hardly listen. And the attitude change happens suddenly, not gradually.

Before retiring and coming to Thailand, I was a business owner in the USA, and hired many employees over the years. I never saw this problem before coming to Thailand.

What puzzles me is my maids have been middle-aged women: age 40 and above. (Current maid is about 50.) They work slowly, but I don’t care about that. Question in my mind: At that age, where else can they find an easy job, in an air-con condo, with a polite boss, and make 100 baht/hour, paid in cash each day? Apparently they are not thinking like that, but what they are thinking, I can’t figure out.

Similar attitude from reception ladies in condo, usually the younger, pretty ones. The older and fatter ones, when they are alone, still friendly, helpful, and polite. But when the younger ones are also at the lobby counter, even the older ones become very “cool”. Of course, I don’t hire them or pay them directly.

Here are my solutions so far. Not very good, but I don’t know what else to do. Looking for better ideas.

With maids I hire, I’ll let the bad attitude go on for a month or two, to see if they return to previous attitude. Perhaps the cause is a problem in personal life which can be resolved. But once the change happens, the previous positive attitude never returns, not so far anyway. So I “let them go”, as politely as possible, and in an indirect way, if possible, to save face. And then begins the problem of finding another maid.

With people I don’t hire — waitresses, condo reception, etc. — I become very cool myself, towards them. No eye contact from me. No more, “sawat-dee”. Just ignore them as if they are furniture. Usually that thaws the coolness somewhat, but never as pleasant and friendly as at the beginning.

Are there better ways? Or is it just Thai style?

[Naam]

Are there better ways?

sure there are, don't employ Thais. exceptions prove the rule of course.

[Jeddah Jo]

Was sat next to a particularly moody looking girl once and joked with her that a smile cost nothing. She told me to <deleted> off. Guess she was having a bad day...

[Dave12345678910]

I cannot speak highly enough about the Thai manager or owner where I live. I have had a few accidents of late due to a stuffed leg. He takes care of everything. Checks I have beer, water, smokes and something to eat. Even trust him with my credit card. A farang teacher would kill you for knowing what its worth!

Funniest thing is I don't speak Thai and he doesn't speak English. It's all mimed and use of dictionary with jokes.

Only advise is make more sanuk and say thankyou a lot.

I would have loved to have this bloke and his family working for me in Aus. Attention to detail and honesty is impeccable

[teacherpaul]

The problem with Thailand is that it has a terrible record when it comes to customer service. There are a few exceptions of course, but they are very few and far between. I remember the last time my parents visited. My mum went into a cafe and bought a coffee and a cake. The girl serving just pushed the coffee and cake in front of my Mum with no smile, no thankyou and no eye contact. My mother called her a miserable bitch and walked out. They never seem to learn.

Edited March 16, 2016 by teacherpaul

[Johnsy]

I have also experienced this everywhere in Thailand. I don't hire people but I know many who do and even at the places I stay/live I see Thai staff always start out well and finish badly then move on. I think for them being polite and saving face is hard work that can only last so long. It's another reason Thai's are almost unemployable outside of Thailand.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Johnsy

[chicowoodduck]

Poor service + poor attitude means the don't have to put up with me for very long....just move on down the road to the next adventure....?

[akentryan]

They all seem to start out OK but time and familiarity seem to change things. It always irks me when they think you are too stupid to figure out what they are doing. Latest fiasco involved hiring a maid (I have known her for 4 or 5 years and she showed up at my door with an 8-month old baby and a husband ) at 85 baht an hour and her husband to temporarily do plumbing and electric repairs, painting, etc at 150 baht an hour. After a couple of weeks the maid didn't show up and the husband did the housekeeping. Like I'm too dumb to figure out that I've got a 150 baht an hour housekeeper. Then doing the work he was hired to do he became very sloppy splashing paint everywhere and in general keaving a mess. He was painting rails on upstairs porches so I checked on him a couple of times. He was sitting in a chair just staring out at the road. Then one afternoon he had earplugs in and was singing very loudly which I found unusual. Happened to look at my bar and saw a shot glass with green paint on it - he had been sampling my Jack Daniels. He had previously helped himself to soft drinks as he saw fit which I was not particularly fond of. The first time he asked but after that just took what he wanted. Not the surliness that is referred to here but a comment in general about how they change once you try to help them.They are both now unemployed and it is unfortunate as I had other work lined up for him.

[sometimewoodworker]

In a strange way it could well be related to the amount you pay.

When money is needed there's a very polite friendly surface attitude. But when there's enough "for now" many don't want to continue working getting more. Then the downsides begin to show to them. The workplace is cold, there's nobody to talk with and gossip about, there's no flexibility about times and days working, there's an expectation of planning ahead instead of spontaneously acting, they have to do the same things day after day.

Result they want to stop but don't want to loose face by quitting a high pay job so force you to find a way to fire them.

I have no idea what you can do but think some or all the above maybe true.

[ThaiWai]

Was sat next to a particularly moody looking girl once and joked with her that a smile cost nothing. She told me to <deleted> off. Guess she was having a bad day...

I guess what she gave you was free also

[freebyrd]

I will likely get lambasted for this but the days of 'Khon Thai Jai dee' are a long and distant memory. Na wai lang lok - basically wai to your face, finger behind your back, is the attitude of many, but of course not all Thais. I thought I would end my days in TL, eventually I chose to move on to somewhere where I am accorded rather more respect.

That said, as always, one man's meat......

[PT4]

I will likely get lambasted for this but the days of 'Khon Thai Jai dee' are a long and distant memory. Na wai lang lok - basically wai to your face, finger behind your back, is the attitude of many, but of course not all Thais. I thought I would end my days in TL, eventually I chose to move on to somewhere where I am accorded rather more respect.

​

​Thank you, "freebyrd" for that comment. You won't get lambasted from me. Exactly that has been on my mind, too.

[elgenon]

Was sat next to a particularly moody looking girl once and joked with her that a smile cost nothing. She told me to <deleted> off. Guess she was having a bad day...

I hate when people say stuff like that. Or smile to show me i should smile. Dumb.

[smotherb]

I have lived in Thailand more than 10 years and visited here since 1967, I have never encountered an irritable or lazy Thai; they are always smiling and pleasant with the utmost courtesy and efficiency.

[PT4]

... it could well be related to the amount you pay. ... When money is needed there's a very polite friendly surface attitude. But when there's enough "for now" many don't want to continue working getting more. Then the downsides begin to show to them. ...

I have no idea what you can do but think some or all the above maybe true.

​

​"Woodworker," I think what you wrote is true and a major part of the problem. If only 1 or 2 over the years, then its a personal problem. But seen again and again, its a social attitude.

​

​As for what to do, I've already figured out three remedies; one of which is to have a method for finding a new maid every 6-12 months or so. But I'm still not sure I thoroughly understand the problem. That's why discussing it like this helps a lot. Thank you for posting your observations.

[Mr Money Bags]

I pay my maids (yes, a pair) MUCH more than THB100 per hour.

They NEVER complain or become sullen......

You're Welcome!!

[DrTuner]

Give them fixed period contracts, 2 months at a time and have at least three contractors in line. Surprisingly Thais are happy to give their contracts to the "next one" from their pool of friends.

[khun custard]

"with a polite boss, and make 100 baht/hour, paid in cash each day"

Perhaps you need adopt a more indigenous, IR approach

Work em' 6 days a week dawn to dusk, buy them lunch, pay em' Tb500 cash at the end of each day and then tell them if you want them to work tomorrow.

Tends to work well with lower skilled workers here and keeps them interested in turning up to work each day - from what I have been told.

[KarenBravo]

I have three classic Honda Super-Cubs. Each year, one of them gets totally stripped down, re-sprayed, re-chromed and then re-assembled.

Presently, I'm on my third mechanic. The other two did a good job the first time they worked; re-assembling the bike in a week.

The second time they each did a bike, it took one month for one and three months for the other.

My present mechanic has stripped and re-assembled a bike twice now. Both times, no complaints. Bikes re-assembled in five days.

I have a bike in with him right now. Everything is ready for re-assembly and has been for two weeks, yet, he hasn't even started.

My own theory for this behaviour, is that they come to regard you as "theirs". Almost like an "ownership" attitude. Once, they perceive that you belong to them already, then top service is not necessary. They never seem to twig to the fact that I can always go to another mechanic.

[HooHaa]

cant help you in the last 15 years i have lived in thailand i have had 2 full time maids one lasted 4 years and had saved enaoigh to open a small business, the other is still with me.

[PT4]

​

They all seem to start out OK but time and familiarity seem to change things. It always irks me when they think you are too stupid to figure out what they are doing.

​

​Exactly!

​

After a couple of weeks the maid didn't show up and the husband did the housekeeping. Like I'm too dumb to figure out that I've got a 150 baht an hour housekeeper.

​

Yes. Just because we don't understand every word of their language, they figure we don't understand them.

​

​

Not the surliness that is referred to here but a comment in general about how they change once you try to help them.

How do local employers of casual labor (like maids and handymen) handle it? Most of those employers will be middle-class, Chinese-Thai. From what I've seen (in restaurants and shops), they treat hired help very rudely. But if that's the optimal way to handle Thai workers, then I'll have to find the second best way. I don't have it in me to be that harsh.

Edited March 16, 2016 by PT4

[PT4]

​​

My own theory for this behaviour, is that they come to regard you as "theirs". Almost like an "ownership" attitude. Once, they perceive that you belong to them already, then top service is not necessary. They never seem to twig to the fact that I can always go to another mechanic.

​Thank you, KB, that could be the basis of a practical solution: Two people doing similar work, on alternating days. One doing cooking and some cleaning, with the other doing laundry and some cleaning. Always have another who can do their job. Worth thinking about that.

​

[PT4]

... in the last 15 years i have lived in thailand i have had 2 full time maids one lasted 4 years and had saved enaoigh to open a small business, the other is still with me.

​

​That's very good to know! So it is possible.

​

​Would you please specify some details:

1. ​Where are you located: Bangkok, small city, small town, village?
2. How did you find each maid?
3. ​How much do you pay?
4. ​Who manages the maid: you or your Thai wife?

Edited March 16, 2016 by PT4

[JDGRUEN]

I believe several viewpoints here are on target... and then another factor... Even with above average pay ... the maids, wait staff, receptionists notice over a few months that even with good pay - Farangs have so much more money than they do...(and their imagination makes it even a greater disparity)

it really sinks in and some become resentful...

[akentryan]

JD Gruen has it at least partially right. They see a farang that has so much that "maybe he won't miss me taking the small change, or drinking his cognac, or taking a cigar or two, or stretching a 1-hour job into a 3-hour job". That is almost certainly part of it.

[SOTIRIOS]

....they want a job....a salary....all the benefits.....but not to actually have to work.....

[PT4]

... another factor... Farangs have so much more money than they do...(and their imagination makes it even a greater disparity) it really sinks in and some become resentful...

​

​Thank you, "JD", for explaining. Yes, I agree, resentment is a major factor. They can't express it, of course. Resentful people never can. But it motivates their behavior under the surface.

​

​"JD's" post provides another piece of the puzzle. Recently I bought a new shoe rack to put at the front door. The old rack was perfectly serviceable, just old, and not very nice appearance. So when I noticed a attractive shoe rack on sale at HomePro, I bought it. Walnut stained wood, very solid, with a sitting bench on top. Next day, maid came to work and first question was, "How much you pay?" I told her. That was my mistake. The price was 2x her daily wage! For a shoe rack! And the old rack did the job just fine. In a moment, I could see her attitude change. Resentment, sure.

[Stevemercer]

I think also that Thai people work best in groups or pairs where they can talk and jolly each other on. Work is more fun that way. Once an employee gets it in their minds that their job is not 'fun' anymore, they fast loose motivation. For a single employee they want to feel like they are part of the family. I think it is very hard for a farang to achieve this because of the language/cultural gulf. Of course, there are many exceptions to the rule.

[asdecas]

"with a polite boss, and make 100 baht/hour, paid in cash each day"

Perhaps you need adopt a more indigenous, IR approach

Work em' 6 days a week dawn to dusk, buy them lunch, pay em' Tb500 cash at the end of each day and then tell them if you want them to work tomorrow.

Tends to work well with lower skilled workers here and keeps them interested in turning up to work each day - from what I have been told.

You forgot the sleeping on the kitchen floor.

[Jeddah Jo]

Was sat next to a particularly moody looking girl once and joked with her that a smile cost nothing. She told me to f&&k off. Guess she was having a bad day...

I guess what she gave you was free also

No, actually it cost her.

My point anyway is that people in a service industry shouldn't come to work with a filthy attitude!