End of the road: Thailand tightens up rules on foreign tourist vehicles

[cumgranosalum]

No problem for the Chinese, who will drive to other local countries and spend money there instead of Thailand.

good news then!

In one phrase this sums up the Thai attitude to vehicles visiting Thailand....nothing to do with the practicalities or benefits it is down to pure prejudice , bigotry and xenophobia.

[cumgranosalum]

Of course, could it be possible that te Thai authorities are in fact being a little cute? Are they hoping that these measures will persuade China to negotiate a more mutually beneficial arrangement?

[seedy]

Troll / Flaming post - and Quoted Reply - hidden

[LivinLOS]

And yet they want the pan asian highway to link the pacific to the Indian ocean via northern Thailand ??

[technologybytes]

Given that they cannot/will-not ban ASEAN member vehicles, the only other group in any noticeable numbers is Chinese cars.

Its long been very unfair that chinese cars can come in to Thailand but Thai cars cannot got into China... I see a reciprocal agreement brewing..

Edited March 16, 2016 by technologybytes

[cumgranosalum]

Given that they cannot/will-not ban ASEAN member vehicles, the only other group in any noticeable numbers is Chinese cars.

Its long been very unfair that chinese cars can come in to Thailand but Thai cars cannot got into China... I see a reciprocal agreement brewing..

THis would be the logical thing - but the current admin is driven by xenophobia.

I don't think fair or unfair enters into it....deals are arranged to mutual benefit not parity - that could be disastrous in some circumstances. Every nation wants to protect particular and differing interests.......

If foreign commercial vehicle are allowed from ASEAN and China the benefits to trade would be immense - it would of course bust up a few comfortable monopolies in Thailand but if they have any entrepreneurial skills left, i'm sure they could in fact expand their transport all over S.E. asia. Uk transport companies, despite moaning have transformed since 1992 in the EU.

private vehicles are not just tourists - they bring business and trade too.........but tourism by vehicle owning customers is definitely not to be sniffed - again you only need to look at Europe. In the States which is in fact a step beyond EU, pole don't think twice about road trips of 300 km or more for a holiday........and their money is welcomed.

Edited March 16, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[louse1953]

All about reciprocal rights. When does Thailand think about reciprocal rights? My Thai wife owns land in Australia but I can't in Thailand.

If you become a citizen,maybe you can.

[cumgranosalum]

All about reciprocal rights. When does Thailand think about reciprocal rights? My Thai wife owns land in Australia but I can't in Thailand.

If you become a citizen,maybe you can.

The Chook - reciprocal yes but not 50/50 - No deal ever ends up that way.....it is a negotiation about what a country needs or needs to protect........no countries sign treaty that give exactly the same to each side - it is a process of compromise and exchange.

Smallr and developing economies tend to be protectionist by nature and of necessity - it stops bigger economies swamping them, so any trade/border deals will reflect that and countries like China are aware of this. If China was allowed unrestricted acces to the Thai business market, it would become China within weeks...... so they need to negotiate...at present though it seems that the authorities, rather than being lead by practical needs and issues are prepared to let isolationism and xenophobia rule the day.

Edited March 16, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

Given that they cannot/will-not ban ASEAN member vehicles, the only other group in any noticeable numbers is Chinese cars.

Its long been very unfair that chinese cars can come in to Thailand but Thai cars cannot got into China... I see a reciprocal agreement brewing..

At present, ASEAN members are doing a pretty good job of "preventing" travel by other countries vehicles - try getting a Thai car into Vietnam....or even Cambodia....Burma.......Indonesia?

[cumgranosalum]

we not make money out of them so ban them

of course they make money!

[GAZZPA]

I like the Chinese. Eat and spit and binge and smoke all at the same time.then leave pay no tip and follow the flag. Love it. The Chinese are the future 555...

I will bet the chinese dont whinge as much as the farangs do

Obviously you have never lived or worked in China.

[slipperylobster]

Thailand is not looking at this right.

With more non thai cars on the road, the percentage of accidents would go down.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

Amazing how fast you can pass a new law when money is involved.

I wish they could do the same about other laws that don't relate to cash.

[HampiK]

Thailand is tightening up rules on foreign tourists bringing vehicles into the country to cut down on the number of foreign vehicles on the roads.

I thought that Asean was meant to encourage exactly what they are banning? Anyone know?

China not depends to the ASEAN countries as far i can remember.

But even the ASEAN countries not are at the point, where they can travel without restrictions.....

[seedy]

Troll / Flaming post removed.

Again - keep the Personal Attacks off this Forum

[excalibur2000]

Thailand on the move

Edited March 16, 2016 by excalibur2000

[BudRight]

All about reciprocal rights. When does Thailand think about reciprocal rights? My Thai wife owns land in Australia but I can't in Thailand.

If you become a citizen,maybe you can.

Gee whiz, one of the 80 people a year who become Thai citizens.

You don't need to be a citizen in Australia to own land, and that's really the point.

I can't believe anyone needs to explain this to you, it's so stupid.

[kannot]

I like the Chinese. Eat and spit and binge and smoke all at the same time.then leave pay no tip and follow the flag. Love it. The Chinese are the future 555...

I will bet the chinese dont whinge as much as the farangs do

i bet they do overall, there are after all billions of them

[metisdead]

A post using ALL CAPS has been removed as well as the replies.

[Kru Baa]

News flash, Thailand tightens the rules on everything, then immediately backs off once they realise they have to actually get off of their asses and enforce the new rules.

[stickylies]

Thailand is the backyard of china. The Chinese, unlike most farang, do not consider northern Thailand anything more than a province south of Yunnan. This being said. If Thai vehicles cannot enter yunnan then Chinese cars should not be allowed in Thailand neither

[cumgranosalum]

Thailand is the backyard of china. The Chinese, unlike most farang, do not consider northern Thailand anything more than a province south of Yunnan. This being said. If Thai vehicles cannot enter yunnan then Chinese cars should not be allowed in Thailand neither

I'd say that just about every sentiment expressed in th above post is totally subjective and wildly inaccurate.

[Tomtomtom69]

So, unless they are going to ban all hiring of motorbikes by tourists, why are motorbikes being banned?

NO. Read the article properly.

It says NO FOREIGN REGISTERED motorcycles. Exceptions are Lao, Malaysian and Singaporean motorcycles. Incidentally, of all the foreign registered motorcycles one sees driving in Thailand, Malaysian ones are the most common, by far. I often see them driving up to northern Thailand, just saw 4 of them the other day headed in the direction of Tak, possibly heading up to Chiang Mai. All of them big bikes of course.

Hiring of local motorcycles will not only be continue to be allowed, but by banning foreign registered motorcycles, tourists will be forced to rent them locally, brining in more business for vehicle rental agencies.

[Tomtomtom69]

Thailand is tightening up rules on foreign tourists bringing vehicles into the country to cut down on the number of foreign vehicles on the roads.

I thought that Asean was meant to encourage exactly what they are banning? Anyone know?

First of all, nowhere have I read that ASEAN (or AEC I think you mean, since ASEAN has been around since 1967) will encourage, or is supposed to encourage, freedom of movement of motor vehicles between member states.

HOWEVER, having said that, individual agreements between some member states, and the miserable failure that is called the GMS CBTA (Greater Mekong Sub-region Cross Border Transport Agreement) conceived in 1999 by China (Guangxi and Yunnan provinces only), Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam and Thailand and later signed by all member states by 2003 are supposed to allow for some reciprocal exchange of traffic rights to occur. In reality though, the only agreements that are worth the paper they are written on are individual agreements between Thailand and Malaysia/Singapore, Thailand and Laos and Laos and Vietnam. All other countries/country pairs in the region have only local agreements with various restrictions in terms of types of vehicles allowed and/or time/distance restrictions (for example, Thailand and Cambodia share an agreement on the exchange of traffic rights for commercial vehicles only but NOT for private vehicles; similarly, Vietnam now allows 20 Thai trucks in daily, but definitely no Thai buses or cars). For example, Thailand allows Burmese vehicles in only for the day (except at Mae Sai where they can stay for up to a week I think) and only within a short radius of the border (usually around 10-15km or so). The Burmese place similar restrictions on Thai vehicles although for example, Thai vehicles are generally permitted by the Karen armies to use a shortcut via Burmese territory to travel from Umphang district to Mae Sot via Nong Luang and Ban Waley in Phob Phra district, while Burmese vehicles can only enter Thailand via Mae Sot and aren't allowed to drive outside of Mae Sot district. Besides, the unofficial route connecting Umphang and Phob Phra goes through rebel held territory and there are no official customs checkpoints that would be able to issue temporary import papers or insurance, hence why Burmese vehicles can't be permitted entry there.

Lastly, Chinese and other non-ASEAN foreign registered vehicles are not covered by any agreement and even if AEC had a treaty on the exchange of traffic rights between ALL member states (although for island nations like the Philippines it would largely be irrelevant) as non-ASEAN states they would not be covered anyway. The article also clearly states that vehicles registered in ASEAN countries with which Thailand shares existing agreements would not be affected.

[Tomtomtom69]

May one wonder if this decision does not clash with all kinds of international conventions signed by Thailand?

Maybe - the problem is that both China and Thailand are notorious for not having signed many of those international treaties...

First of all, hansnl, what "conventions" has Thailand signed? It has only signed the UN treaty on international motor traffic with regards to driver's licences. This means international driver's permits are recognized by Thailand. China however, has NOT signed the treaty and does not recognize international driver's permits nor does it recognize driver's licences issued by any other country, not even those of Hong Kong and Macau (now external territories of China) or Taiwan (which China likes to claim as it's own renegade province).

The problem is that China NOT Thailand is notorious for signing agreements that it doesn't follow. Case in point is the GMS CBTA agreement. Look it up. China signed it in 2003 but doesn't follow it, even though it only covers Yunnan and Guangxi provinces but they can't even follow it then. Some restricted movement of Lao buses is allowed up to Kunming while Lao trucks and private vehicles are restricted to Jinghong, about 200km from the border. Vietnamese trucks are apparently allowed to operate up to Kunming and Shenzhen, but no private vehicles from Vietnam or China are allowed to cross into each other's territory.

Thailand on the other hand applies the agreements it has signed with Malaysia, Singapore and Laos. It also applies the agreements on the movement of commercial vehicles it has signed with Cambodia and Vietnam.

So the conclusion is that China thinks it can sign agreements but not follow or implement them.

[Tomtomtom69]

There may be many excuses given, but the main reason is Xenophobia.

No it's not. It's very reasonable. Unless of course we can also conclude that the Chinese are a bunch of xenophobes because they don't want foreign vehicles driving on their roads either.

The concerns mentioned in the article, and that I agree with include 1) traffic congestion 2) accidents 3) environmental issues.

Driving a foreign registered vehicle into any other country, including Thailand is a privilege NOT a right. Foreign registered vehicles pay no road tax for the upkeep of the roads here. Their unfamiliarity with the local laws and in the case of Chinese vehicles, their large numbers during holiday times can easily overwhelm the limited road space, particularly in the north. If Lao registered vehicles (which will continue to be allowed to come without restrictions) aren't coming across the 4th Friendship Bridge in any numbers but vehicles from a third country (China) are, then something is seriously wrong. It's also rather bizarre - imagine if one saw more Canadian vehicles driving in Tijuana than US registered ones. It wouldn't make sense.

[Tomtomtom69]

The ban of foreign plated motorbikes into Thailand (except Laos, Malaysia and S'pore plated) are meaningless and ridiciolous. "They cause accidents and ecological harm" ? Wipe your own front and backyard first. Thais dont even weat a helmet and pile unprotected toddlers on their mopeds and drunk driving are more of a rule than an exception, even amongst the brownshirts.

The few hundred overlanders that passes through Thailand pr year - I havent hear about one accident amongst them. And those from neighbour countries except L, M and S cannot cause much harm either.

Other countries are opening up such as Myanmar and theres also rumours that Vietnam will. Thailand on the other hand....

Umm first of all, if you read the Bangkok Post article, which is far more extensive than this copy provided by Coconuts, you would see they are targeting Vietnamese, Chinese, Cambodian and Myanmar vehicles in particular. The Chinese in particular will be clamped down upon. Apart from the very occasional Vietnamese big bike, Vietnamese cars have never been able to enter Thailand. Customs officials at various Thai-Lao borders (on both sides) confirmed this to me: NO Vietnamese registrations allowed to cross to Thailand. Even third country crossings are not allowed. While Cambodian vehicles are generally allowed in at some Thai-Cambo crossings, no way a Cambo car will be allowed to cross into Thailand from Laos.

Of course many Thais don't know how to drive. But isn't that a good reason not to expose unlimited numbers of foreigners to this?

Overlanders from Europe, Australia etc.? Probably only like 10-20 (where did you get hundreds from?) cross into Thailand every year and I agree they won't cause much harm, but they aren't really the target here not to mention it won't be too hard to apply for driving permission 10 days in advance and pay a small fee. The thousands of Chinese vehicles are being stopped (or at least their numbers will be greatly reduced) and rightly so. The exponential increase in their numbers over just a 2-3 year period is already a big cause for concern. Imagine if nothing had been done about them and this trend had continued - there could potentially have been 50,000-100,000 Chinese vehicles entering Thailand over a 2-3 week period in January or February for CNY 3-5 years down the track meanwhile 0 Thai vehicles would be heading in the other direction. The congestion, accidents, potential road rage and environmental concerns that would have brought with it would have been a disaster for Thailand.

So glad they won't be allowed to come easily anymore. Every time I've seen a blue licence plate here I immediately start to cringe - virtually free entrance for them but Thai and other foreign vehicles can't go to China? Bunch of freeloaders. Glad to see them gone and it couldn't be soon enough.

Vietnam and Myanmar doesn't allow Chinese vehicles in either (nor does India hahaha) I wonder why Thailand was so generous? Enough is enough.

And on your other point about Myanmar

NO it has NOT opened up for foreign vehicles at all. You still need to make advance arrangements at least 1 month in advance, take a government guide with you and usually also a guide from the agency that is dealing with all the permissions, permits and paperwork for your vehicle and it's expensive. Exceptions are for Thai cars travelling in the border regions and Chinese cars travelling across their shared border within 10km of the border.

My Myanmar immigration colleague tells me that Myanmar is trying to negotiate a reciprocal agreement with Thailand and possibly other ASEAN countries for the exchange of traffic rights - allowing Myanmar vehicles to drive around Thailand say to Bangkok and vice versa. If this happens, then yes, Myanmar will join Laos, Malaysia and Singapore as a country with a reciprocal agreement with Thailand covering all vehicles types, permitted to drive on Thai roads.

Vietnam only permits Lao and Cambodian cars/motorcycles across it's border. A year or two ago it actually tightened up it's regulations on foreign registered vehicles and now all non-Lao and non-Cambodian vehicles, even those with LHD require advance permission, a guide and escort. There is no rumour about it opening up at all. Go over to TTRWeekly.com and read the article from late 2014 I think it was that outlines all the new requirements.

[Tomtomtom69]

It really doesn’t matter where these vehicles are from....it is the PRINCIPLE that is important - what they are doing is using a load of observed but ill-researched reasons.

They simply have no idea what the impact of foreign traffic is as they are not referring to any reliable studies. All this is just the usual knee-jerk reaction.

In fact if you look at Europe, the free flow of traffic is one of the most import pillars of the economy (UKIP note).

These people are brining money/cash into the country - the vehicles don’t drive on fresh air - they buy fuel, food and contrary to most arguments they use hotels too.... (RVs are only a small part of the traffic and I suspect they use hotels from time to time too.

It is quite clear that there is a burgeoning middle class in ALL countries in the region (including Thailand) and they will want to be able to drive around the region.

HCM is less than 1000 KM from Bangkok - an overnight stop and you’re there - if ASEAN was functioning as it should.

Chinese border is less than 250 km from the Thai border.

India is only one country away from Thailand.........

Yet all the Thai government can do is think of ways to keep people out

I think your mindset is still stuck in Europe. Europe is a developed part of the world. It has all the infrastructure, in terms of roads, facilities, compulsory insurance valid throughout the entire region to cope with foreign registered vehicles although let's face it, Europe isn't really a collection of independent nations but more like states like the USA. There is complete freedom of movement and you often don't even know you've crossed a border until the language the signs are in changes or the road signs have different fonts/colors.

Developing Asia is different. Thailand, Laos, Myanmar, Vietnam etc. don't have the infrastructure to cope with large numbers of foreign vehicles, You may dream of driving from Bangkok to Ho Chi Minh, but believe me, the thought of large numbers of Thai tourists driving their cars to Saigon, where there's virtually no parking for cars, it's a challenge to negotiate your way through a sea of scooters, the unfamiliarity with the local traffic rules and directions, lack of road signs, what to do in the event of an accident, lack of a common language would present a nightmare for the Vietnamese government. Hence allowing small numbers of Cambodian and Lao registrations across is all they feel comfortable doing - large numbers of Thai cars wouldn't be something they want to see hence they don't allow it and won't for many years to come I suspect.

The Thais now have experience with lots of Chinese vehicles. I've seen one Chinese car with a Kunming, Yunnan number plate, driven by a lady stop on the orange emergency strip on the motorway near Suvarnabhumi airport to check directions. She then reversed back out into increasingly heavy traffic. Imagine the carnage she could have caused if she had been there 30 mins later when rush hour started (lucky nothing happened to her or anyone else though by her stupid and dangerous action). Wasn't the first time I've seen similar antics by those blue plated menaces in Thailand. The Thai authorities are rightfully trying to control them.

There is no region wide agreement on the exchange on traffic rights like in Europe. It will probably take decades, not just years before there may be a proper European style system in place because of issues as region wide minimum insurance coverage, a minimum basic ambulance service (virtually non-existent in Laos, Myanmar and most of Cambodia), standard road signs etc. are yet to be put in place.

Most middle class in the region DON'T want to drive around the region. They want to fly. They don't have time, nor care for the challenges in driving a car on the opposite side of the road they are used to, but perhaps more importantly, navigating their way around, finding a place to park, driving through heavy traffic, what to do in the event of an accident etc. A small number might opt to rent locally but that's about it.

This whole driving your own car from another country thing is the domain of those who have time and are a little adventurous. It is by no means and will probably not for many, many years become a standard, everyday thing to do in this part of the world. Just crossing the border by car takes about an hour or sometimes more already. Sometimes the roads coming to/from a border are atrocious and travel takes a long time, which is true in all countries bordering Thailand except Malaysia. Middle class Laotians are used to driving from Vientiane to Udon for shopping, but even though it's only a 70km drive, the increase in traffic at the bridge and all the formalities can often mean over an hour spent leaving and another hour getting back. All these things you don't have to worry about (as much) in Europe.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Tomtomtom69

[Tomtomtom69]

OK , I know there have been some significant issues with long convoys of Chinese cars and camper vans and the assorted issues with camper vans parking en masse at tourist attractions and popular spots and then just dumping their rubbish and worse... no need to go into further details.

The inclusion of motorbikes in this does make one scratch ones head and wonder why but the main motorcycle traffic into Thailand is from Malaysia and Singapore and they aren't affected here ....... however once again it is great example of " Ready Fire Aim"..... I wish the Land Transport Office in coming up with this would have devoted the same energy to regulating and cleaning up the minivan taxi/ transport industry here .... especially in the hot spots ( Phuket/ Krabi/ Samui)....the threat to tourism and pure data on numbers of people killed by this largely unregulated and lawless association of Minivan transport companies and their ill trained, often over tired and quite often drugged to the eyeballs drivers is immense.

Barely a week goes by when you don't read about minivan skidding off the road and the associated carnage and all of us have seen the breakneck speed at which allot of these drivers go at .......... This tightening up on rules here is a soft option .. why ?? .. because they can actually enforce it via border control/ immigration..... tackling the real issues that Land Transport should be looking at well that might have to come another day .....

Ps. before anyone comments I have seen the recent press re restricting the minivans in their long haul scope some but alas without solid training, education, vehicle safety checks and monitoring systems in place this is akin to Canute and the waves .

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" no need to go into further details." - yes there is!

I've seen "convoys" of Chinese vehicles and I'd like to see some thoroughly researched analysis of the effects they have. This is, of course, of no interest to the Thai authorities who never base any decisions it would seem on scientific principles.

Even if these "convoys" were shown to be a real a nuisance, how does this represent a rational solution? Surely a solution would be to break up the convoys or insist on smaller groups travelling together.

The truth is that the Thai authorities are not prepared for anything like this - they don't have the tools to deal with it and rather than bother, they take the usual Thai response - "no have".

In the end Thailand will in a the near or far future have to admit foreign traffic and they will need to cope with it; just as we have in Europe...it isn't a great problem and if Thailand went to Europe they'd soon get informed of the real problems and how to deal with them - again Thailand’s history of listening to advice from outside is limited.

There is a major change in the region and it is coming from the middle-classes of those countries - these people are educated, have money and influence - it would be a good idea for the Thai authorities and the authorities of other countries to look at what is going on and listen to the people - rather than be motivated by their own self-interest, greed and xenophobia..

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PS - Minivans have not been restricted yet - it is just another example of ill-researched, poorly conceived ideas by the authorities

Convoys of foreign vehicles should be given a police escort (actually they should be compulsory) as is the case in Vietnam for example.

Thailand does NOT have to admit any foreign traffic other than that it has a proper agreement with. It's the same in Europe - the reason you see Portuguese registrations in say Switzerland is because a European wide agreement on the exchange of traffic rights was implemented and entered into force - just that it happened as early as the 50s.

Educated people with money are also generally time poor. Unless they're rich Lao from Vientiane driving down to Udon for shopping, they'll be flying into Bangkok and perhaps maybe rent a high end luxury vehicle with chauffeur to drive them around.

Your analysis is ill-conceived and largely based upon trying to compare Europe to South-East Asia thinking the same standards, rules and regulations etc. should apply here too just because it happens to work in Europe. Err...no. Not quite.

Also, rather than attack Thailand you might want to reserve more criticism for Myanmar, Vietnam and China. All these countries make it VERY difficult and expensive to drive there, much more so than these new regulations Thailand is putting into place. 10 days advance notice is nothing compared to the 30 days Myanmar needs or the 3 months China needs (which suggests Chinese officials are either highly incompetent, lazy or just stupid if they need 3 months to prepare for the arrival of one foreign registered car).

[rosst]

Well, I kept a house in Thailand to leave my motorbikes for intercountry travel, well that just <deleted> that, time to sell the house and never return. The hell with Thailand, I have just about had it. I now live in Philippines and whilst they have their moments, a bloody dream compared to LOS.