Self defence / protection tools

[hanuman2543]

A bottle of hair spray and a lighter. Makes a nice flame

[raro]

learn some martial arts techniques. Karate, Taek Won Do are quite efficient when it comes to knocking someone out

[CLW]

Is pepper spray is allowed to self-defense in Thailand and you can obtain it at no additional licenses?

No.

Bug or wasp spray would work.....

But the question to be answered is - what happens once you use it?

You live there & they live there - by defending yourself with something you've just won 1 battle but accelerated the "war".....You become a recognized/easily identifiable marked (foreign) target in a "I can't lose face" village/area/country....

Chuck Norris - most of us aren't....

Good point, you are right.

That's why I hope I never have to use the self defence tools.

By the way, simple body spray, the small can for travel, are efficient on short distance in the face.

[augustwest]

I mentioned this for soi dogs but it holds true for all mammals. The small elmers glue bottle with orange twist top. Empty bottle and and replace with ammonia. If your not in effective range means you can run like hell. A few blasts to the eyes and your assailant is toast! Martial arts is like playing the guitar,if you don't practice everyday it's useless

[NoshowJones]

learn some martial arts techniques. Karate, Taek Won Do are quite efficient when it comes to knocking someone out

Don't agree, very few Karate experts will beat an experienced street fighter, as soon as the karate mans feet leave the ground

he is vulnerable.

Don't forget there are rules in karate, but no rules in street fighting. If you want to be able to defend yourself in a fight where there are no weapons

take up boxing, easily the most effective.

[Kaalle]

Karate and tea time kwon do come on...

We are in Thailand, they have something called muay thai, its pretty optimal. No flashy choreographed stuff just power and speed and effectiveness.

[mogandave]

A nice ball of key can be helpful...

[impulse]

9 iron or sand wedge.

But then what? If you lose, you could go to the hospital. If you win, you could go to jail. I'd rather a quick trip to the hospital than a looooong trip to the hoosgaw here in Thailand.

Lots of thread in the search archives about self defense, and why the dynamics are different here than back home.

[raro]

Karate and tea time kwon do come on...

We are in Thailand, they have something called muay thai, its pretty optimal. No flashy choreographed stuff just power and speed and effectiveness.

Interestingly...I did several years of Aikido, albeit several years ago (as in from 2006 to 2010 roughly), the movements are in principle still present.

Now picture this: About two years ago in bright sunlight on Pattaya Klang some guy attacks me with a tire iron. He got it out of his car and charges towards me at lightning speed, still - a LOT of time to react.

What did I do? I look at him coming towards me, thinking to myself naaaahhhh....he won't do that will he? What to do with my mobile in one and the wallet in the other hand?....How did the right stance work again for an attack coming from the left and BANG he hits me on the left leg only to run back into his car as fast as he came out of it. Me still standing there motionless going through the movements of a deadly throw that I could have applied 2 seconds earlier when he was still there....

[Kaalle]

raro I fail to see your point? Do we disagree or are you just telling an anecdote?

Fists and elbows and perhaps a lowkick or two, thats where its at. Not some Steven Seagal, Bruce Lee make believe bs.

And dont forget the rape whistle.

[Craig krup]

The British martial artist and former nightclub doorman Geoff Thompson is one of the few people who talks sense on the subject of self-protection.

He's gone a bit......mystical recently, but he knows of what he speaks.

http://geoffthompson.com/

You rarely hear anyone talk plain vanilla common sense. For example - steel toe capped boots are better than almost anything else. You can't wear them anywhere else, but if you can wear them they're purchase number one.

[raro]

raro I fail to see your point? Do we disagree or are you just telling an anecdote?

Fists and elbows and perhaps a lowkick or two, thats where its at. Not some Steven Seagal, Bruce Lee make believe bs.

And dont forget the rape whistle.

It's a bit of both....a real live anecdote that highlights that even if you had a couple of years of training you need to gauge the situation correctly and have the movements/timing present. This attack was unprovoked and came completely out of the blue. In a dojo I would have floored, disarmed and damaged the guy (as in simulating taking the shoulder out or whatever would be the possible action here).

In the real live scenario I got away lucky as except for a blue mark on my leg and a dent to my ego nothing much happened. I just did not expect him to follow through but rather stop before reaching me and wield that tyre iron with some random insults thrown at me.

[Craig krup]

....even if you had a couple of years of training you need to gauge the situation correctly and have the movements/timing present. This attack was unprovoked and came completely out of the blue. In a dojo I would have floored, disarmed and damaged the guy (as in simulating taking the shoulder out or whatever would be the possible action here).

In the real live scenario I got away lucky as except for a blue mark on my leg and a dent to my ego nothing much happened. I just did not expect him to follow through but rather stop before reaching me and wield that tyre iron with some random insults thrown at me.

Well, the reality-based self-defense movement will tell you that back-brain reasoning is really only going to be possible for cops, doormen, boxers and street-fighters who've had a ton of real world horrible experience. For most people being terrified and learning to hurt someone is the only preparation for being terrified and having to hurt someone. It's all - pretty much - decided long before it takes place, and you need to forget all about what you can do - technique - and think about who you are - identity. Your identity is the product of experience. So if you train in a gym where people scream and swear at each other, posture like lunatics, hit each other hard in sparring and expect to see a certain amount of blood and snot then you can be pretty certain that when someone does the same thing you - with an identity forged by lots of painful and frightening experiences - will respond in a certain way. But technique is the least of it. Begin with the mind. I did karate for years and it was a big fat waste of time because me, and almost everyone else, were in the dojo precisely because we couldn't cope with fear. Once you accept fear - as Thompson says, the friend of exceptional people - everything changes. Self-protection's full of easy truths, but you don't see them until someone points them out. For example, only men miss with punches. Women and small children always connect. There's a reason for this. There's all the difference in the world between throwing a punch at someone and punching them. Intent is everything, Men don't want to get hit, they want the whole thing not to be happening, so they throw haymakers while four feet apart. Traditional martial arts exacerbates this tendency. Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do has an odd right hand lead, which makes no sense until you think of the reality - with bare knuckles and a punch travelling a short distance with your (probably) dominate hand you're going to make contact. With any technique at all you'll generate 400 lbs plus, and people really won't respond well to that in their face through bare knuckles. So over a short distance someone who can cope with their fear, blade their body, lift their hands in a "fence" in a non-threatening manner to keep distance, keep their chin down and hit very suddenly with only six inches of movement will probably put the other person on their backside. With distance, screaming, swearing, things being thrown, threats, charging attacks and all the rest of the lunacy military unarmed combat comes into its own: forget all about everything except getting them off their feet while you remain on your feet. Then kick them choosing an attack they can't see coming and can't avoid. Not nice.

But what you'll do depends on who you are, and who you are depends on what you've put yourself through. As Thompson says, if you go to your club and don't feel sick with apprehension you aren't improving. Whatever else real violence is, it isn't marching about in your pajamas punching the air.

[Saastrajaa]

Is pepper spray is allowed to self-defense in Thailand and you can obtain it at no additional licenses?

No.

Bug or wasp spray would work.....

But the question to be answered is - what happens once you use it?

You live there & they live there - by defending yourself with something you've just won 1 battle but accelerated the "war".....You become a recognized/easily identifiable marked (foreign) target in a "I can't lose face" village/area/country....

Chuck Norris - most of us aren't....

Chuck Norris isn't even Chuck Norris. That's the movies.

[impulse]

Chuck Norris isn't even Chuck Norris. That's the movies.

Nope. Chuck Norris is the real deal. One of the very few real deals in the movies...

[robblok]

Karate and tea time kwon do come on...

We are in Thailand, they have something called muay thai, its pretty optimal. No flashy choreographed stuff just power and speed and effectiveness.

Interestingly...I did several years of Aikido, albeit several years ago (as in from 2006 to 2010 roughly), the movements are in principle still present.

Now picture this: About two years ago in bright sunlight on Pattaya Klang some guy attacks me with a tire iron. He got it out of his car and charges towards me at lightning speed, still - a LOT of time to react.

What did I do? I look at him coming towards me, thinking to myself naaaahhhh....he won't do that will he? What to do with my mobile in one and the wallet in the other hand?....How did the right stance work again for an attack coming from the left and BANG he hits me on the left leg only to run back into his car as fast as he came out of it. Me still standing there motionless going through the movements of a deadly throw that I could have applied 2 seconds earlier when he was still there....

Thats because martial arts are ineffective.. I would just have done a double biceps pose and said.. you don't want to see me angry. That would have helped a lot better

But seriously, they did studies on soldiers, and many would not fire their rifle at the enemy, i think the same applies to everyone.. you could be trained and stuff but might just not respond.. training is different from real life.

[inbangkok]

Karate and tea time kwon do come on...

We are in Thailand, they have something called muay thai, its pretty optimal. No flashy choreographed stuff just power and speed and effectiveness.

Interestingly...I did several years of Aikido, albeit several years ago (as in from 2006 to 2010 roughly), the movements are in principle still present.

Now picture this: About two years ago in bright sunlight on Pattaya Klang some guy attacks me with a tire iron. He got it out of his car and charges towards me at lightning speed, still - a LOT of time to react.

What did I do? I look at him coming towards me, thinking to myself naaaahhhh....he won't do that will he? What to do with my mobile in one and the wallet in the other hand?....How did the right stance work again for an attack coming from the left and BANG he hits me on the left leg only to run back into his car as fast as he came out of it. Me still standing there motionless going through the movements of a deadly throw that I could have applied 2 seconds earlier when he was still there....

Thats because martial arts are ineffective.. I would just have done a double biceps pose and said.. you don't want to see me angry. That would have helped a lot better

But seriously, they did studies on soldiers, and many would not fire their rifle at the enemy, i think the same applies to everyone.. you could be trained and stuff but might just not respond.. training is different from real life.

Very true.....

Everyone thinks they are a bad ass until shit hits the fan......

[raro]

@ bobblok... Having met you I agree, it could scare the shipping shit out of many

I believe part of it is also the presence of the right moves in the subconscious part of the brain. Once you start thinking about how to move it's over. Mind you, I was about 3 or 4 years out of regular training when this happened

[jmccarty]

Isn't the fine for an Asp-style baton something like 200 baht? It's also the kind of thing that the cop - should he find it - might be quite keen to just "confiscate", and say no more.

The downside to a baton is that you really need a belt and a holder. Too dense and heavy for a pocket.

If you're looking for something legal why not use what US prisoners use - a lock in a sock. Get a padlock (with key) and put it in a sock, then have that in your pocket. If asked the padlock is for use for gym lockers and to lock a bicycle. The damage you can do with a piece of steel in a sock is considerable - swing with venom you're talking hundreds of feet pounds of energy and no give in it at all. Less lethal is a fistful of coins. A dirt cheap 100 baht plastic covered wire bicycle lock is also a serious weapon, although obviously it needs a piece of pvc tape over the locking part so that it's open if you pull it out. Practice whacking a tree full power while holding the bulky locking end. Wear eye protection and don't blame me if you hurt yourself. You'd be surprised at the force produced.

You could even try swinging a large bicycle at them. The bigger the better! Or a couple of bikes, one in each hand. Serious damage could be done!

[robblok]

@ bobblok... Having met you I agree, it could scare the shipping shit out of many

I believe part of it is also the presence of the right moves in the subconscious part of the brain. Once you start thinking about how to move it's over. Mind you, I was about 3 or 4 years out of regular training when this happened

Also true.. that is why they train repetitive moves all the time so its kinda muscle memory you do it without thinking. That is how hand to hand combat is trained so the guys wont think about killing just respond and kill the other (soldiers).

Personally, I avoid conflict when I can, I am not above running if needed. I prefer to nurse a broken ego over a broken body. I would be too worried about the other guy anyway. If you want to win you have to go all out and do whatever it takes and that can result in a lot of injuries on the other party. You could end up in jail, self defense is not that easy to prove. Just imagine the guy getting hit falling hitting his head on the pavement and dying.. Scary.

Better to avoid it even if it could be bad for ones ego. Fighting really is a last resort for me.

[Thian]

Could it be that Cal 22 guns and rifles are easily available in Thailand? I talked to someone and he said they are common to kill birds and rats.

Not that I want to have it but I found a bullet yesterday...

There are loads of guns in Thailand. Yesterday in our moobaan i heard somebody firing one several times. Maybe they shot a rat or snake, even the security stayed behind their tv 's without looking up.

It's also the reason why the police won't do their job i guess.

You better move to another place.

[exbikey]

Karate and tea time kwon do come on...

We are in Thailand, they have something called muay thai, its pretty optimal. No flashy choreographed stuff just power and speed and effectiveness.

Interestingly...I did several years of Aikido, albeit several years ago (as in from 2006 to 2010 roughly), the movements are in principle still present.

Now picture this: About two years ago in bright sunlight on Pattaya Klang some guy attacks me with a tire iron. He got it out of his car and charges towards me at lightning speed, still - a LOT of time to react.

What did I do? I look at him coming towards me, thinking to myself naaaahhhh....he won't do that will he? What to do with my mobile in one and the wallet in the other hand?....How did the right stance work again for an attack coming from the left and BANG he hits me on the left leg only to run back into his car as fast as he came out of it. Me still standing there motionless going through the movements of a deadly throw that I could have applied 2 seconds earlier when he was still there....

Raro, You should carry a small cast iron fry pan around (not sure where to get one from ;-)). A simple 'belt' from one of those would sort anyone out. Don't try it with the big pan though, it's ok for cooking but too heavy for swinging around.

[Thian]

Just do as the (Shaolin) monks...mind you he even spares the boxer by hitting him with open hands.

[mogandave]

Just do as the (Shaolin) monks...mind you he even spares the boxer by hitting him with open hands.

You hit with open hands to avoid damaging your hands.

[Craig krup]

You could even try swinging a large bicycle at them. The bigger the better! Or a couple of bikes, one in each hand. Serious damage could be done!

If you ride a bike put a U-lock holder on the frame and have a cheap lock in it. One ludicrously dangerous weapon. Heavy steel. Practise holding it by the bar and throwing a punch. It adds eight or nine inches to your reach, and would fracture whatever it connected with. Holding it with the U along your harm, and "hammering" someone with either end of the locking bar would end anything.

[Thian]

Just do as the (Shaolin) monks...mind you he even spares the boxer by hitting him with open hands.

You hit with open hands to avoid damaging your hands.

It's because he doesn't wear gloves and since it's on video he doesn't want to make it messy.

For sure they give direct punches, full power and with their first 2 knuckles, they train that hundreds of times every day! They don't slap around like a bunch of girls Their direct punches are trained to perfection, other techniques with open hands are to break bones (like the wishbone). It's not for fun or show.

[Honkie]

Yip Man Wing Chun !!!

[Kaalle]

Why would anybody in their right mind think Karate holds the keys to the strongest punches? Do you see any karate practitioners in mma? Do you see any (real) boxers get knocked out by karate guys or kung <deleted> masters and other stuff that only works in movies?

[Thian]

Why would anybody in their right mind think Karate holds the keys to the strongest punches? Do you see any karate practitioners in mma? Do you see any (real) boxers get knocked out by karate guys or kung <deleted> masters and other stuff that only works in movies?

https://www.google.co.th/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=k1%20karate%20fighters

[Craig krup]

Why would anybody in their right mind think Karate holds the keys to the strongest punches? Do you see any karate practitioners in mma? Do you see any (real) boxers get knocked out by karate guys or kung <deleted> masters and other stuff that only works in movies?

Low roundhouse kicks work, which is why they're used. Reverse punches don't, which is why they aren't. You can measure all this with sensors on bags. Reverse punches are the kind of "retentive" nonsense that's produced by people who think that just because something is counter-intuitive and awkward it must therefore be better.