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Experts see little chance of charges in Clinton email case


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Experts see little chance of charges in Clinton email case
By ERIC TUCKER and MICHAEL BIESECKER

WASHINGTON (AP) — Asked earlier this month whether she'd be indicted over her use of a private email server as secretary of state, Hillary Clinton responded, "It's not going to happen."

Though Republicans characterized her response as hubris, several legal experts interviewed by The Associated Press agreed with the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination.

The relatively few laws that govern the handling of classified materials were generally written to cover spies, leakers and those who illegally retain such information, such as at home. Though the view is not unanimous, several lawyers who specialize in this area said it's a stretch to apply existing statutes to a former cabinet secretary whose communication of sensitive materials was with aides — not a national enemy.

During her tenure as the nation's top diplomat between 2009 and 2013, Clinton's work emails were routed through a private computer server located in the basement of her New York home. The State Department now concedes that a small percentage of those messages contained sensitive national security information, including some later determined to be top secret.

Computer security experts say the arrangement could have left the messages vulnerable to hackers, including those working for foreign intelligence agencies. Clinton has called her decision to rely on the home server a "mistake," but has also repeatedly asserted that none of the messages was marked as classified when she sent or received them.

The FBI has for months been investigating whether the sensitive information that flowed through Clinton's email server was mishandled. The inspector general at the State Department has also been reviewing the issue. Regardless of the outcomes, there's no question the probes have created a major distraction as Clinton campaigns for her party's nomination.

One potentially relevant statute carrying up to a year in prison makes it a crime to knowingly remove classified information and retain it at an unauthorized location. Former CIA Director David Petraeus pleaded guilty to that misdemeanor offense last year after providing eight black binders of classified information to his biographer. He was sentenced to two years' probation as part of a plea deal, and prosecutors made clear in that case that Petraeus knew he was turning over highly classified information.

With Clinton, though, "I look at something which requires knowledge, and the first question I've got to ask is, 'How do they prove knowledge?'" said Bill Jeffress, a Washington criminal defense lawyer.

While knowledge that information is classified is a critical component, it can likely still be established even in the absence of classification markings on the emails in question, said Nathan Sales, a Syracuse University law professor who used to work at the departments of Justice and Homeland Security and who thinks that the investigation raises important legal issues.

"Sometimes information is so obviously sensitive that you can infer knowledge from the content," in which case the lack of markings may not matter for the purpose of establishing liability, Sales said.

A separate law makes it a felony to handle national defense information with "gross negligence," by causing it to be removed from its proper place of custody or to be lost, stolen or destroyed. But that statute is part of the Espionage Act, a law used against former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden that's generally intended for people the government believes intended to harm U.S. national interests. Proving gross negligence requires showing an act was more than just a mistake.

"One has to put this in perspective of what types of prosecutions have happened under the Espionage Act," said Jon Michaels, a national security law professor at UCLA. "And the universe of prosecutions under the Espionage Act is quite small compared to the amount of information transferred through non-secure means."

Brad Moss, a Washington lawyer who deals regularly with security clearance matters, said the Justice Department could conceivably look to bring charges in the Clinton email case but prosecutors would have to decide if they "really want to take that gamble." Inquiries into mishandling of classified information generally end with a security clearance revocation rather than a criminal charge, he said.

But Ronald Sievert, a former federal prosecutor and University of Texas adjunct law professor, said an argument could be made that Clinton's creation of a private email server amounted to gross negligence.

"It's a jury issue," Sievert said.

Each prosecution of classified information cases has turned on different facts, making it hard to reliably predict outcomes, and the disparate punishments have frustrated efforts to draw meaningful parallels.

Petraeus got probation for knowingly mishandling classified information while a former State Department intelligence analyst, Stephen Kim, was sentenced in 2014 to more than a year in prison for disclosing classified materials to a reporter. Kim's lawyer, Abbe Lowell, urged for Kim's release in light of what he said was a "profound double standard."

The Clinton case indicates a "dysfunctional" system of overclassification, Lowell told the AP.

"One of the perpetual problems with the investigation or prosecution of so-called leaks cases about classified information is that the law doesn't recognize as a defense that the material should not have been classified in the first place," he said.

Regardless of the legal question, if Clinton secures the Democratic presidential nomination she's certain to be dogged by the issue through the November election.

"Ultimately, the real risk for the secretary might not be legal as much as it is political," Sales said.
___

Follow Eric Tucker on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/etuckerAP and Michael Biesecker at https://twitter.com/mbieseck

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-- (c) Associated Press 2016-03-23

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That's why the U.S. is (secretly) admired by every government around the globe: It's the pinnacle in rationalizing entitlement of the elite. In medieval times they used "it's the will of God". Now they use "it's the law we wrote".

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No crime has been committed, so no charges will be brought. Ever.

While the current laws may be inadequate with addressing changes in technology, novel interpretations of the law that essentially modernizes the law cannot be done without legislative action. And of course, any new legislation cannot be enforced retroactively.

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No email was found on the server that was classified at the time it was received. After reviewing the contents of the emails, the FYI has determined that some content, a very small amount, was either subsequently classier or even though not classified even now, should have been. No law has been broken and despite determined efforts to prove otherwise nothing has been found.

Post #4 in this thread is typical of these efforts containing lies, half truths and emotional demogoary in attempts potray Hillary as some sort of anti american. I am not a big hillary supporter be any means, but I am, and have been for some time, disgusted with the methods used by the virulent right wing against both hillary and Obama and anyone else they politically disagree with.

You people should be ashamed of yourself. That photo should be deleted from the thread immediately and poster punished. Think about that man's family.

TH

Edited by thaihome
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^^^

The ignorant, uninformed author of Post #4 posted a fanatic's attempt at disinformation by creating a meme of a photo in which Christopher Stevens is actually being rescued by Lybian locals.

Dispicable misinformation and behavior.

Mr. Stevens later died in hospital due to smoke inhalation.

Edited by iReason
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Bottom line, if any lower level government employee had been found to have one of the 2000 emails Hillary had on her private server, they would already be in prison.

American soldiers have been convicted for much less, and accidental security breaches. For posting a photo with something in the background that shouldn't be there.

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And posters here like to lament the Thai rich, powerful or connected being above the law.

Wake up to reality, it is a world wide phenomenon where there are laws for the serfs and none for those who consider themselves the nobility.

Same as it ever was...

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The information that was in the hacked Emails was very classified.

The info gleaned from those hacked Emails gave out information that caused suffering,and very possibly,even deaths.

Hillary will probably be indicted after she wins the rigged "election".

Other than being impeached and forced to step down, Hillary will not have to face other serious consequences.

Some deals have been made and some "favors" have been called.

(Think of the Yingluck situation in Thailand.)

Hillary understands that and can live with it.

Hillary is running for President for one reason only.

She wants to go down in history as the first woman ever "elected" as President of the United States.

What hacked e-mails ? coffee1.gif

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What a disappointment for Republicans. sad.png They said HRC would be perp walked into gitmo and now? Nothing. Like being told there is no Santa Claus. It's Benghazi all over again!

Really sad. Bummer. Hillary going to jail was the last hope! Fox News guaranteed it! Everyone said it would happen.

And now what? Trump?

Go Trump! I guess...tch

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A few things that are guaranteed:

The Republicans (and Fox news) will continue to smear her with lies and innuendo right up until the Presidential polls close. Fox will also be saying up until that point that the Republicans are winning the White House (just like last time).

Trump's campaign will essentially mirror this same tactic.

Karl Rove will be arguing with the Fox anchors again.

Two people are going to walk out of this with a smile on their face:

Trump, because by that time he'll have had pushing $5 Billion (by my estimate) of free advertising for his tacky and tawdry "brand"; and Hillary because she'll be on her way to pick some new wallpaper for the Oval Office.

Edited by Chicog
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No crime has been committed, so no charges will be brought. Ever.

While the current laws may be inadequate with addressing changes in technology, novel interpretations of the law that essentially modernizes the law cannot be done without legislative action. And of course, any new legislation cannot be enforced retroactively.

You couldn't be more wrong. I worked government IT 14 years, and if any of our employees did what she had done, they'd be doing time at the grey bar hotel.

1. She is one of TEN people in the world who can classify U.S. government information. She should have had an elevated understanding of the contents of her correspondence. As such, she sent classified info on an unsecured server and exhibited gross negligence doing so.

2. The most DAMNING act was wiping the server. Obstruction of justice and destroying government property in an attempt to cover up her wrongdoing.

The Clintons feel they are above the law, and this is evidence that, basically, they are.

The Clinton machine is one of the most corrupt group of elitists ever to torment the planet, and if she is elected, you watch the SHlT go down! The most critical facet of her evil intention is the TPP. She recently flip flopped on it, but mark my words, if she gets in office, TPP will become a reality. She will throw up her hands in mock dismay, saying there's nothing she can do about it.

Bottom line, this whole election is a mess and nothing good will come of it.

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No crime has been committed, so no charges will be brought. Ever.

While the current laws may be inadequate with addressing changes in technology, novel interpretations of the law that essentially modernizes the law cannot be done without legislative action. And of course, any new legislation cannot be enforced retroactively.

You couldn't be more wrong. I worked government IT 14 years, and if any of our employees did what she had done, they'd be doing time at the grey bar hotel.

1. She is one of TEN people in the world who can classify U.S. government information. She should have had an elevated understanding of the contents of her correspondence. As such, she sent classified info on an unsecured server and exhibited gross negligence doing so.

2. The most DAMNING act was wiping the server. Obstruction of justice and destroying government property in an attempt to cover up her wrongdoing.

The Clintons feel they are above the law, and this is evidence that, basically, they are.

The Clinton machine is one of the most corrupt group of elitists ever to torment the planet, and if she is elected, you watch the SHlT go down! The most critical facet of her evil intention is the TPP. She recently flip flopped on it, but mark my words, if she gets in office, TPP will become a reality. She will throw up her hands in mock dismay, saying there's nothing she can do about it.

Bottom line, this whole election is a mess and nothing good will come of it.

1. She didn't classify the emails as classified; therefore, emails remained unclassified until reviewed by Justice. Even if emails should have been classified during Hillary's possession, there's no evidence that they were shared with anyone who didn't have appropriate clearance to see them. Much ado about nothing.

2. The Denver-based IT company Hillary Clinton hired to manage her private email system says that the former secretary of state’s email server was never “wiped” clean, meaning that emails from the device could still be retrievable.

Good will come from this whole episode with better guidance on government emails put on personal servers.

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No crime has been committed, so no charges will be brought. Ever.

While the current laws may be inadequate with addressing changes in technology, novel interpretations of the law that essentially modernizes the law cannot be done without legislative action. And of course, any new legislation cannot be enforced retroactively.

You couldn't be more wrong. I worked government IT 14 years, and if any of our employees did what she had done, they'd be doing time at the grey bar hotel.

1. She is one of TEN people in the world who can classify U.S. government information. She should have had an elevated understanding of the contents of her correspondence. As such, she sent classified info on an unsecured server and exhibited gross negligence doing so.

2. The most DAMNING act was wiping the server. Obstruction of justice and destroying government property in an attempt to cover up her wrongdoing.

The Clintons feel they are above the law, and this is evidence that, basically, they are.

The Clinton machine is one of the most corrupt group of elitists ever to torment the planet, and if she is elected, you watch the SHlT go down! The most critical facet of her evil intention is the TPP. She recently flip flopped on it, but mark my words, if she gets in office, TPP will become a reality. She will throw up her hands in mock dismay, saying there's nothing she can do about it.

Bottom line, this whole election is a mess and nothing good will come of it.

1. She didn't classify the emails as classified; therefore, emails remained unclassified until reviewed by Justice. Even if emails should have been classified during Hillary's possession, there's no evidence that they were shared with anyone who didn't have appropriate clearance to see them. Much ado about nothing.

2. The Denver-based IT company Hillary Clinton hired to manage her private email system says that the former secretary of state’s email server was never “wiped” clean, meaning that emails from the device could still be retrievable.

Good will come from this whole episode with better guidance on government emails put on personal servers.

Really? Heavy sigh . . .

1. If she was qualified to do her job, then she KNEW the information was classified, which is why she either scrubbed her server or deleted her emails. If she had had nothing to hide, she would have just turned it over which - AGAIN - is a requirement of ALL civil servants. The server and its contents were the property of the U.S. government. Her destroying it IS A CRIME. She either knew the information was classified or she exhibited gross negligence by NOT knowing. You can't have it both ways.

2. It makes no difference whether the server was wiped or that the emails were merely deleted, she attempted to withhold evidence in an FBI investigation during which classified, and in several cases Top Secret, information was discovered.

This naive, blind acceptance and resulting defense of the Clintons' crimes is why they have risen to such power. Even an entry-level GS-2 employee would have recognized correspondence that held Top Secret information. and 30,000 plus emails deleted just after the FBI requests to see the server?

Take a step back and apply the sniff test: Does it LOOK like SHlT? Does it SMELL like SHlT? C'mon, you KNOW it's SHlT!

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No crime has been committed, so no charges will be brought. Ever.

While the current laws may be inadequate with addressing changes in technology, novel interpretations of the law that essentially modernizes the law cannot be done without legislative action. And of course, any new legislation cannot be enforced retroactively.

You couldn't be more wrong. I worked government IT 14 years, and if any of our employees did what she had done, they'd be doing time at the grey bar hotel.

1. She is one of TEN people in the world who can classify U.S. government information. She should have had an elevated understanding of the contents of her correspondence. As such, she sent classified info on an unsecured server and exhibited gross negligence doing so.

2. The most DAMNING act was wiping the server. Obstruction of justice and destroying government property in an attempt to cover up her wrongdoing.

The Clintons feel they are above the law, and this is evidence that, basically, they are.

The Clinton machine is one of the most corrupt group of elitists ever to torment the planet, and if she is elected, you watch the SHlT go down! The most critical facet of her evil intention is the TPP. She recently flip flopped on it, but mark my words, if she gets in office, TPP will become a reality. She will throw up her hands in mock dismay, saying there's nothing she can do about it.

Bottom line, this whole election is a mess and nothing good will come of it.

1. She didn't classify the emails as classified; therefore, emails remained unclassified until reviewed by Justice. Even if emails should have been classified during Hillary's possession, there's no evidence that they were shared with anyone who didn't have appropriate clearance to see them. Much ado about nothing.

2. The Denver-based IT company Hillary Clinton hired to manage her private email system says that the former secretary of state’s email server was never “wiped” clean, meaning that emails from the device could still be retrievable.

Good will come from this whole episode with better guidance on government emails put on personal servers.

"there's no evidence that they were shared with anyone who didn't have appropriate clearance to see them. Much ado about nothing."

You contradict your claim with the next sentence you posted...
"The Denver-based IT company Hillary Clinton hired to manage her private email system says that the former secretary of state’s email server was never “wiped” clean, meaning that emails from the device could still be retrievable."\
The Denver based IT company Hillary hired did NOT have the Defense Security Service required facility clearance to handle classified information to begin with. None of their employees had received federally issued security clearances according to the Washington Post, who said...
--------------------------------------------------------------------
DeCamillis said that the company has undergone various background checks for clients in the past but that he did not think any of its employees held formal government-issued security clearances.
A spokeswoman for an agency within the Defense Department that vets companies for security clearances said her office has not extended one to Platte River Networks."
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything this woman did with her private server was illegal and, as member quandow has so ably said, if any of us that have held security clearances had ever pulled stunts like she and her aides did, we would be in Leavenworth.

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No crime has been committed, so no charges will be brought. Ever.

While the current laws may be inadequate with addressing changes in technology, novel interpretations of the law that essentially modernizes the law cannot be done without legislative action. And of course, any new legislation cannot be enforced retroactively.

The Clinton machine is one of the most corrupt group of elitists ever to torment the planet, and if she is elected, you watch the SHlT go down! The most critical facet of her evil intention is the TPP. She recently flip flopped on it, but mark my words, if she gets in office, TPP will become a reality. She will throw up her hands in mock dismay, saying there's nothing she can do about it.

Bottom line, this whole election is a mess and nothing good will come of it.

I only included your comments on the TPP, because I wish only to respond to that.

I have news for you and all the others who oppose the TPP. I know a senior level person who advises both houses of Congress on this issue. Both senior Democrats and Republicans definitely want this to go through.

So, you nativists, anti-free-traders, isolationists, US labor unionists and other misguided persons (we have conservative Trump billionaire businessman supporters joining with Noam Chomsky on this oppositionlaugh.png ) should know that there is strong bi-partisan support of this hugely important trade agreement that will benefit 12 Pac Rim countries, including, importantly, America. By the way, China is excluded from this, so all you China haters should ask yourselves if you really know what you are thinking.

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With Clinton, though, "I look at something which requires knowledge, and the first question I've got to ask is, 'How do they prove knowledge?'" said Bill Jeffress, a Washington criminal defense lawyer.

The knowledge comes from the State Departments very own briefings, that make it crystal clear that any data breach or deviation from SOP's will receive the full weight of the law.

The knowledge comes from the State Departments use of its own servers and that no one requires a personal server.

Clinton broke the law with the very first State Department email that went through her personal server, regardless of its classification.

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Everything this woman did with her private server was illegal and, as member quandow has so ably said, if any of us that have held security clearances had ever pulled stunts like she and her aides did, we would be in Leavenworth.

rolleyes.gif

After months and months of countless posts of

"She's a criminal."

"She's going to jail."

"She'll have to drop out of the race."

You're left with "woulda", "coulda" and "shoulda"

These hyper-partisans never seem to learn. They go off half-cocked and don't take even a few minutes to look at things rationally. Then they end up right where they are now.

127542.jpg

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No crime has been committed, so no charges will be brought. Ever.

While the current laws may be inadequate with addressing changes in technology, novel interpretations of the law that essentially modernizes the law cannot be done without legislative action. And of course, any new legislation cannot be enforced retroactively.

You couldn't be more wrong. I worked government IT 14 years, and if any of our employees did what she had done, they'd be doing time at the grey bar hotel.

1. She is one of TEN people in the world who can classify U.S. government information. She should have had an elevated understanding of the contents of her correspondence. As such, she sent classified info on an unsecured server and exhibited gross negligence doing so.

2. The most DAMNING act was wiping the server. Obstruction of justice and destroying government property in an attempt to cover up her wrongdoing.

The Clintons feel they are above the law, and this is evidence that, basically, they are.

The Clinton machine is one of the most corrupt group of elitists ever to torment the planet, and if she is elected, you watch the SHlT go down! The most critical facet of her evil intention is the TPP. She recently flip flopped on it, but mark my words, if she gets in office, TPP will become a reality. She will throw up her hands in mock dismay, saying there's nothing she can do about it.

Bottom line, this whole election is a mess and nothing good will come of it.

1. She didn't classify the emails as classified; therefore, emails remained unclassified until reviewed by Justice. Even if emails should have been classified during Hillary's possession, there's no evidence that they were shared with anyone who didn't have appropriate clearance to see them. Much ado about nothing.

2. The Denver-based IT company Hillary Clinton hired to manage her private email system says that the former secretary of state’s email server was never “wiped” clean, meaning that emails from the device could still be retrievable.

Good will come from this whole episode with better guidance on government emails put on personal servers.

Really? Heavy sigh . . .

1. If she was qualified to do her job, then she KNEW the information was classified, which is why she either scrubbed her server or deleted her emails. If she had had nothing to hide, she would have just turned it over which - AGAIN - is a requirement of ALL civil servants. The server and its contents were the property of the U.S. government. Her destroying it IS A CRIME. She either knew the information was classified or she exhibited gross negligence by NOT knowing. You can't have it both ways.

2. It makes no difference whether the server was wiped or that the emails were merely deleted, she attempted to withhold evidence in an FBI investigation during which classified, and in several cases Top Secret, information was discovered.

This naive, blind acceptance and resulting defense of the Clintons' crimes is why they have risen to such power. Even an entry-level GS-2 employee would have recognized correspondence that held Top Secret information. and 30,000 plus emails deleted just after the FBI requests to see the server?

Take a step back and apply the sniff test: Does it LOOK like SHlT? Does it SMELL like SHlT? C'mon, you KNOW it's SHlT!

Quandow, I share your heavy sigh.

1. Obama's executive order 13526 provided her, as SecState, Classification Authority to the Top Secret level. She was the only State Department employee that had Presidential authority to classify documents up to and including that level. She also had to follow the requirements outlined in Section 1.3.(d) in order to prepare herself for this responsibility.

Section 1.3.(d) says in part...

"(d) All original classification authorities must receive training in proper classification (including the avoidance of over-classification) and declassification as provided in this order and its implementing directives at least once a calendar year..."

​Any alleged lack of knowledge defense holds no water.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information

2. Everybody that holds a federal security clearance is required to sign form SF-312, the CLASSIFIED INFORMATION NONDISCLOSURE AGREEMENT, which also states in part...

"As used in this Agreement, classified information is marked or unmarked classified information,

including oral communications, that is classified under the standards of Executive Order 13526, or under any other Executive order or
statute that prohibits the unauthorized disclosure of information in the interest of national security;"
The debriefing portion of SF-312 also states...
"I reaffirm that the provisions of the espionage laws, other federal criminal laws and executive orders applicable to the safeguarding of classified
information have been made available to me; that I have returned all classified information in my custody; that I will not communicate or transmit
classified information to any unauthorized person or organization;"
In short, her "unmarked" defense has no legs and it took her more than two years to turn over her private server.
When she did it was 30,000 emails short.
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Exactly right (no pun intended) boo freakin-hoo for the right whingers who basically were relying on this one as some sort of smoke and fire condemnation. Well,,, it's not. Whole lotta nothing.

Now, how about that Trump University defrauding a whole bunch of people. Hey, gotta build up Daddy's cake that he received somehow, right?

Latest one is a rehashing of the Donald employing foreign models, receiving money from the government for employing foreign workers (wait, isn't he against that?) then not properly paying said foreign employees. Defrauding the government eh Donald? Have some good lawyers eh?

Good thing come November the country will see the Chaos Party, against the party that had to straighten the ship the last time the Gone Old Party put some moron in office.

Geez, GW Bush and now DTrump, GOP on a complete loser roll..................

Edited by grumpyoldman
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Exactly right (no pun intended) boo freakin-hoo for the right whingers who basically were relying on this one as some sort of smoke and fire condemnation. Well,,, it's not. Whole lotta nothing.

Now, how about that Trump University defrauding a whole bunch of people. Hey, gotta build up Daddy's cake that he received somehow, right?

Latest one is a rehashing of the Donald employing foreign models, receiving money from the government for employing foreign workers (wait, isn't he against that?) then not properly paying said foreign employees. Defrauding the government eh Donald? Have some good lawyers eh?

Good thing come November the country will see the Chaos Party, against the party that had to straighten the ship the last time the Gone Old Party put some moron in office.

Geez, GW Bush and now DTrump, GOP on a complete loser roll..................

Hey, you forgot Mitt! Mitt will be remembered as the last GOP loser who had a prayer of winning.

The next Republican President hasn't been born yet.

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Let's follow that last little piece of brilliant prose with the latest update on the FBI investigation into Hillary's handling of classified documents.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Clinton email probe enters new phase as FBI interviews loom
Del Quentin Wilber
Contact Reporter
Federal prosecutors investigating the possible mishandling of classified materials on Hillary Clinton’s private email server have begun the process of setting up formal interviews with some of her longtime and closest aides, according to two people familiar with the probe, an indication that the inquiry is moving into its final phases.
Those interviews and the final review of the case, however, could still take many weeks, all but guaranteeing that the investigation will continue to dog Clinton’s presidential campaign through most, if not all, of the remaining presidential primaries.
No dates have been set for questioning the advisors, but a federal prosecutor in recent weeks has called their lawyers to alert them that he would soon be doing so, the sources said. Prosecutors also are expected to seek an interview with Clinton herself, though the timing remains unclear.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's an artists rendering of Hillary heading for her interview with the FBI.
gv680_160331.jpg
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