Living in Thailand with no health insurance

[Muzarella]

Last year AIA was advertising a decent and not expensive health/life insurance program for foreigners up to 70 years old. AIA is a Thai company with good customer service and accepted in all major hospitals. I got it at 69, without medical exams and pre-conditions exceptions.

[ThaiPauly]

What often happens is one goes through much of life, patting himself/herself on the back for all the money not wasted on health insurance. And then something serious happens and that person is in deep trouble. Statistics also indicate that as we get older, our medical needs and costs only increase, often dramatically.

Like some other forms of insurance I pay my premiums and hope that I am wasting my money and will never need the insurance. Those premiums do allow me to take responsibility for my own financial and medical needs and not push that responsibility on to others.

Well said

[Oscar2]

Cancer treatment in Thailand for those going to private hospitals can cost several million baht, and chemo doesnt get much cheaper at government hospitals such as Shripat. My Thai landlord said she had a Thai friend who died of cancer and spent his last 20-30 days in Bumrungrad. They were asking something around 30,000 baht per day, just for hospice type care.

I know several Thai citizens with cancer, first class service from the government hospitals in CM at no charge.

I would suggest your Thai landlord is doing the usual Thai bragging about how much money he can afford to waste on unnecessary private treatment.

The only high hospital prices in Thailand are for fleecing foreigners.

If I were to have potentially life threatening hospital treatment, I would want to have it on a country where doctors couldn't buy their way through medical school.

Lie.

Cancer treatments cost a lot of money, even in government hospitals.

Comments like this are very irresponsible. My wife's best friend dies at the age of 29 because she could not afford it and had to resort to scummy "holistic" treatments.

"BritManToo" or whatever username he's using this week is full of B.S. who knows "several cancer patients"? and....government hospitals do not provide cancer treatment for free to Thai citizens. treatment even in government hospitals is VERY expensive. that is why cancer insurance is such a popular policy in Thailand. it can only be purchased before age 50.

[Oscar2]

double-post

Edited June 21, 2016 by Oscar2

[watgate]

Muzarella stated in a previous post that he obtained a decent and not expensive health/life ins plan from AIA which was accepted at all major hospitals.He said he got it at age 69 with a medical exam and no pre-existing conditions. That sounds too good to be true and maybe Muzarella can elaborate a little more as to what exactly is covered and what the maximum amounts that are allowed.

[Sheryl]

It is absolutely untrue that government hospitals do not provide free cancer treatment. They absolutely do and I know many cases first hand.

However certain drugs that are not on the government list may have to be paid for. This does not affect all or even most cancer patients but it does affect some, depends on the type of cancer. Surgery, doctor visits, hospital care and (if indicated) radiation treatment = all free. Chemotherapy (if indicated)= often but not always free, depends on the drug.

Not that this has any relevance for foreigners as they are not eligible for free care in govt hospitals.

[LannaGuy]

Having extensively read, and gained a lot of knowledge, I have decided to go with BUPA but was not that impressed with the local office who emailed me some forms but no follow up or friendliness just PDF's!

of those of you who went the BUPA route did you go through the local CNX office?

[Trujillo]

BUPA in CM.

The people there are not proactive about renewing your policy. They are very good at apologizing. If you want to deal with them, you need to be ahead of their curve. The fact is that insurance is not rocket science -- you see what they offer, pick a plan, ask your questions and pay. That's about it.

[LannaGuy]

BUPA in CM.

The people there are not proactive about renewing your policy. They are very good at apologizing. If you want to deal with them, you need to be ahead of their curve. The fact is that insurance is not rocket science -- you see what they offer, pick a plan, ask your questions and pay. That's about it.

yes I was really after how posters, who use BUPA Thailand, got their policies (online? office visit? through a rep?) in Chiang Mai

I was reading that in Samui the BUPA rep speaks English and is an ex-nurse and follows up each patient and I was hoping for similar in Chiang Mai

[tharae]

I am yet to make the move to LOS, but this topic is still the big question mark for me. As you stated I don't believe anyone can answer this question. I will be relatively young when I move, but even at 50 the insurance is costly. I was thinking self insure, I can access a certain amount of funds - but if I had to it would alter my long term plans. I was thinking I could get myself repaired enough to get back to public healthcare in Australia - but what if I have something that keeps me in hospital bound, plus who knows (in my situation) if public healthcare will even exist in my country in 10 years - all indications are that it won't.

Public Health care won't exist in ten years? I wonder who told you that?

Edited June 23, 2016 by tharae

[Trujillo]

BUPA officials in the CM office speak English perfectly well.

Personally, I like to mull over the hard-copy of all the rules and restrictions, what is covered and to what extend and then ask questions to humanoids.

Two years ago I made a pretty thorough investigation of the available insurors for those living in Thailand. A couple of the internet-based ones seemed like winners, but there was no real human interaction and when I did contact them, I got this boilerplate sort of reply as if I would be a jackass not to just accept and send the premium. A couple of the online places did appear to be conducted by foreigners who were clearly motivated by the commission they would get if you signed up -- more concern about that than you getting the coverage that you want.

I ended up staying with BUPA, although it's expensive I think to some extent, but the plans and brand name are good. That's not to say it's the only plan out there that is suitable.

Try checking the older threads on the issue. It's all been hashed over in much more detail than this thread, which is, after all, only about living here WITHOUT insurance.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

It is absolutely untrue that government hospitals do not provide free cancer treatment. They absolutely do and I know many cases first hand.

However certain drugs that are not on the government list may have to be paid for. This does not affect all or even most cancer patients but it does affect some, depends on the type of cancer. Surgery, doctor visits, hospital care and (if indicated) radiation treatment = all free. Chemotherapy (if indicated)= often but not always free, depends on the drug.

Not that this has any relevance for foreigners as they are not eligible for free care in govt hospitals.

Bone cancer.

The girl had to pay for several treatments in a government hospital.

She didn't have money.

She died.

[music065]

On 4/6/2016 at 7:30 AM, HullyGully said:

May wife and DO NOT have insurance

Its all about risk and can you afford to pay

Insurance Companies want you when you are young, as you get older, the premium are expensive and when you are OLD, they do not want you

Based on say a yearly premium of GBP 4000/5000, we decided to self insure, we have lived in Thailand 13 years, had some general hospital costs, however we are well in front

I estimated a major op would be around 1M USD

FYI - we are 66 and 48yrs

 

 

$1 million USD for an operation in Thailand is a new high estimate compared to all I've heard. If you have that much in reserve you'll probably be covered. 

[music065]

On 4/7/2016 at 8:21 AM, khunPer said:

Insurance or not I think is pretty much a question of age – and of course previous health condition – as it only become more-and-more expensive the older your get; and if it's affordable, it's often with limitations.

What I really would dream to have, is an insurance with high or unlimited cover for everything over a certain amount, like an annual self risk, which could be 300k or whatever reasonable; i.e. the first costs up to the annual self risk is my own account, but the serious incident I cannot easily afford, I'm insured against. In my vision the self risk of for example 300k is paid into an insurance account, and if something happens, the insurance covers me, but use my own 300k first; which should make the large sum (more) affordable to insure. If I use any money, I have to sum-up next insurance year, so the self-risk is rebuild.

But to answer OP's question:

When I moved here 57 years old on early retirement, coming from a Scandinavian country with full health cover, I signed up with Bupa Thailand. I could afford their best Platinum, but could also see that it had limitations and a maximum coverage. Furthermore only one thing was sure, that the costs would go up the older I get. So I decided to downgrade a bit and set the difference aside, so I had a "Rainy Day Account", which is always recommendable when living in Thailand.

After some years, never using the health insurance, my savings and a bit extra became in my opinion such a reasonable size, that I decided to downgrade further on Bupa, in that way I was still in the insurance system – when exceeding 65 or 70, you can normally not get in – but at a very low rate. It was around 15k a year, but the insurance covers next-to-nothing, think each case has a maximum of some 30k and annual total of 300k; I had more set aside. Finally I decided, that the 15k or so merely was wasted money, so I gave up on Bupa and only continue with a PA (Personal Accident) insurance from one of the major banks, a package covering my whole family.

The individual question is of course, how much do you need to set aside. As Sheryl very wisely always says, that if you have one serious incident, then all your savings may have gone; an amount of 3 million baht has been mentioned. Using Private or public hospital can make quite a change in costs, but a serious health condition can still be expensive. I'm mainly thinking in health conditions, as accident may widely be covered by PA and other insurances. However, it can happen to be on your account, or partly your own, or you may need to come up with cash and be compensated later. The amount set aside must be of a certain size; however compared with the 15k Bupa insurance, where you think you have a cover, but in reality you have some 30k only for an incident, is that annual fee of 15k then better disposed when set aside in your Rainy Day Account..?

In my case I continue to set a monthly amount aside, an amount I otherwise would have paid into an insurance, and furthermore the interest from my 800k vise-extension deposit also goes into the Rainy Day Account; so it all time adds up – or rebuild, if anything is used. Part of the money is in easy acces bank account with ATM, and part is in Fund Book bonds for higher interest, but can be cashed in one bank-day; I trust my Thai girl friend enough to make these account shared, so someone else than me can act in case of emergency.

It is really individual how you shall arrange your safety – like I think it's important to have some trusted person – and how much you can afford to set aside; or pay for an insurance. In my opinion you shall always have some easy access of cash, when living in Thailand, insurance or not; and some kind of cover from insurance or your own deposit. 300k is worth same as annual total from a low-fee insurance, and 3 million is in the range Sheryl use to recommend as minimum...

All amounts mentioned are in Thai baht.

 

Nice

Edited June 25, 2017 by music065

[Dante99]

Read it again. He did not say he moved here 57 years ago.

[music065]

Lolz

[idman]

No matter your age, your state of health according to your own interpretation if you are living in Thailand and do not have the means to cover medical expenses either by insurance or with cold hard cash you are an idiot. What the hell are doing here in the first place, do you actually think the Thai welfare system will come to your rescue, dream on Rollo. In my case I have small nestegg plus one credit card with a very high limit that will cover medical issues be they normal everyday types or a major medical emergency. I also have First Class insurance for my expensives should I be injured in an auto or motorbike accident. I feel absolutely no compashion for idiots who come to Thailand wearing rose colored glasses and think they are bomb proof.

Sent from my SM-T805 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[how241]

Easy solution...Don't get sick  and die quickly when your time comes...Just joking a little so don't get upset.

[THAIJAMES]

I think there is a misconception about Thai government insurance.  If you have a work permit, your company or organization is paying for your thai medical insurance.  It doesn't matter if you are a foreigner, you are covered exactly the same as Thais.  Also if you retire, you are entitled to continue paying to keep the coverage going.

 

My main hospital for checkups has been Chiang Mai RAM.   Luckily after being here for more than 30 years I have only been hospitalized once for food poisoning more than 15 years ago.

 

But just out of curiosity when I had Sciatica a couple years ago, I decided to try out Lanna hospital, the hospital designated for Government Insurance.

 

When I arrived there there was a separate admittance area for "Prakan Sangkhom" and yes it was a longer wait approximately 2 hours.  I had a checkup by a general doctor and some x-rays done. It was decided that I needed a more specialized doctor.  So they signed off on having a specialist doctor take care of me which was outside their system.  Basically all care, which included numerous doctors visits and physical therapy was free of charge and services were done by the private hospital.   I never paid one baht for any services.

 

The service was not as good as RAM, but I am undecided if it would make any difference health wise.

 

( the long lines are probably because of a lot of people trying to get out of work or needing official documentation for their absence :)

 

As far as I understand all procedures and conditions are covered by Thai government insurance.  A young friend of mine at 22 had leukemia, but because she was working all costs were covered.

 

The main drawbacks of the Thai Government Insurance:

They may not have access to the most expensive drugs.

You may not have your own private room.

They deal with a much higher volume of people so personal attention is lower

 

Even with these drawbacks, there is still a good reason to take advantage of the Thai government Insurance, if you do not have any other insurance:

 

You can pay for the more expensive or advanced drugs yourself, if required.

Pay extra for a private VIP room if you really need one.

Hire a nurse or care taker to give you personalized care if needed.

 

Unfortunately the big hospitals in Chiang Mai are following the western model of performing as many tests and procedures as possible to protect themselves, which also ensures profits.  This is why hospital costs in Thailand are rapidly increasing.

 

Usually doctors in the Thai Government Insurance system take the opposite view, they need to get things done as cost effectively as possible.  

When I was looking after my friend with Leukemia, I paid for her to be in a VIP room.  I also asked the doctors if I could pay for better Leukemia medicine. They discouraged me saying there was little value in doing so.

I guess they were right she is doing fine today. 

 

Basically they are not profit motivated, and they will advise you if better options are available outside or that can be brought in like doctors, medicines etc.

 

So with people with more limited financial reserves, cost for treatment can be free or much less than having to pay the full price at the big hospitals.

 

I know this is not for everyone, but may be a useful option for some with work permits.

 

 

 

[music065]

On 4/6/2016 at 7:30 AM, HullyGully said:

May wife and DO NOT have insurance

Its all about risk and can you afford to pay

Insurance Companies want you when you are young, as you get older, the premium are expensive and when you are OLD, they do not want you

Based on say a yearly premium of GBP 4000/5000, we decided to self insure, we have lived in Thailand 13 years, had some general hospital costs, however we are well in front

I estimated a major op would be around 1M USD

FYI - we are 66 and 48yrs

 

1M USD is a new high for an operation here!

[canthai55]

On 6/26/2017 at 9:18 PM, THAIJAMES said:

Usually doctors in the Thai Government Insurance system take the opposite view, they need to get things done as cost effectively as possible. 

My experience with the MIL at Gov't hospitals was not good. Having problem with her eyes. Doc said everything fine. Went to private eye clinic, problem identified, therapy administered, problem solved.

 

[mikey88]

On 06/04/2016 at 9:30 PM, HullyGully said:

May wife and DO NOT have insurance

Its all about risk and can you afford to pay

Insurance Companies want you when you are young, as you get older, the premium are expensive and when you are OLD, they do not want you

Based on say a yearly premium of GBP 4000/5000, we decided to self insure, we have lived in Thailand 13 years, had some general hospital costs, however we are well in front

I estimated a major op would be around 1M USD

FYI - we are 66 and 48yrs

Did you mean ONE MILLION US DOLLARS...??

[HullyGully]

Sorry, should have read 1 million Baht

 

Since this post my father in law need a 5 x  heart by-pass and 2 valves replaced

Cost at Sirphat was USD 29,000 total

[music065]

4 hours ago, HullyGully said:

Sorry, should have read 1 million Baht

 

Since this post my father in law need a 5 x  heart by-pass and 2 valves replaced

Cost at Sirphat was USD 29,000 total

 

I’m sorry to hear that, I hope he’s better. Whoever thinks medical expenses are cheap in Thailand needs to see these figures. 

[mania]

3 hours ago, music065 said:

 

I’m sorry to hear that, I hope he’s better. Whoever thinks medical expenses are cheap in Thailand needs to see these figures. 

It is in a sense cheap compared to Western Countries but,

I am 99.9% sure for a foreigner the price would be even higher than the Thai Father-in-law even in Thailand

[isaanbanhou]

3 hours ago, music065 said:

 

I’m sorry to hear that, I hope he’s better. Whoever thinks medical expenses are cheap in Thailand needs to see these figures. 

 

What would it cost in the west?  Thailand is a bargain compared to America

 

 Having a stent put in a coronary artery without surgery averages $28,000 US in America.  No surgery and  released from the hospital next day. 

 

Heart bypass surgery typically costs about $70,000-$200,000 US or more, and heart valve replacement surgery typically costs $80,000-$200,000 US or more.

 health.costhelper.com/stents.html

 

I had a stent put in this past May after having a heart attack.

 

Of course in my home and native land, we have universal health care so I paid nothing. 

[music065]

11 minutes ago, isaanbanhou said:

 

What would it cost in the west?  Thailand is a bargain compared to America

 

 Having a stent put in a coronary artery without surgery averages $28,000 US in America.  No surgery and  released from the hospital next day. 

 

Heart bypass surgery typically costs about $70,000-$200,000 US or more, and heart valve replacement surgery typically costs $80,000-$200,000 US or more.

 health.costhelper.com/stents.html

 

I had a stent put in this past May after having a heart attack.

 

Of course in my home and native land, we have universal health care so I paid nothing. 

 

Yes it’s definitely inexpensive compared to the West. I was simply commenting on some I’ve come across some here who seem to think anything medical can be done here for under a few thousand dollars. 

[MaeJoMTB]

Don't care about the future, I'm 62 and had as much time as I want, ready to go.

5 years back, gall bladder problem, 2 nights/3 days in hospital, around 3kbht, wanted to take it out (40k), I said no, OK now.

2 years back, broke my jaw, had Kasikorn accident insurance, refused to pay as reckoned 'cosmetic', cost about 3k privately (jaw glued, 2 teeth rebuilt)

 

Won't buy insurance again.

 

Edited January 22, 2018 by MaeJoMTB