SURVEY: Brexit, do you support it?

[SgtRock]

UK.....Get your borders back, control yourself, tell foreign folk to go back to their country to make their place great, the UK forefathers paid a high price to make a great country, a small island..

You're not the only country that needs to control it's borders. In Spain there is a group of immigrants, around 800,000 of them, they don't speak our language, don't pay taxes, only socialise amongst themselves, use our who can infrastructures and arrived to our country and with next to no money. It's about time we send these foreignrdets tifolk back to their country. Retired Expat Brits out now!!!!

What a load of rubbish, Spain is doing really well in the EU are they, more probable the next Greece.

Are you Spanish? Do you have to live amongst these ignorant poor immigrants? Are the British the only ones who can control borders? We can't decide who can and can't live in our country? We don't want the retired British ex pats.

Yes, it really is a bug bear, these poor ignorant immigrants that are currently swarming across from North Africa.

Self funding British retirees might just be a different proposition.

You would be best served asking Spain's finance chief. I am sure he would have a definitive answer.

Edited May 11, 2016 by SgtRock

[cumgranosalum]

I'll with what Winnie said.

“If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea”.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

I'm assuming you don't mean Winnie the Pooh? - it's an unfortunate quote to choose as Churchill was by and large was pro EU.

Winston Churchill said this but it has been taken out of context and joined with other comments artificially by the Brexiteers.

here is the true context.....

"Churchill shouted this remark to the French leader, General Charles de Gaulle, in a raging row on the eve of the Normandy landings in 1944. Churchill had a roller coaster relationship with de Gaulle and wanted to show his loyalty to the US President, Franklin Roosevelt. Subsequently, Churchill also angrily added to de Gaulle: “Every time I have to decide between you and Roosevelt, I will always choose Roosevelt.” (Later, they made up over dinner and fine wine.)* - Jon Danzig

He also said the following

In 1953 he said...

“"Where do we stand? We are not members of the European Defence Community, nor do we intend to be merged in a Federal European system. We feel we have a special relation to both. This can be expressed by prepositions, by the preposition "with" but not "of"—we are with them, but not of them. We have our own Commonwealth and Empire."

Of course now we DON”T have empire

In 1948 he said

““We cannot aim at anything less than the Union of Europe as a whole, and we look forward with confidence to the day when that Union will be achieved.”

a debate in June 1950 in the House of Commons to discuss a united Europe, Churchill said that he could not “at present” foresee Britain being “a member of a Federal Union of Europe”. However, Churchill went on to explain that this was primarily because of Britain’s position, “at the centre of the British Empire and Commonwealth”, and, “our fraternal association with the United States of America.” All that was to change during the course of the 1950s and 1960s.

Churchill made his last speech about Europe at London’s Central Hall, Westminster in July 1957; some four months after six founding nations established the European Economic Community by signing The Treaty of Rome (France, Italy, West Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands and Luxembourg). Churchill welcomed the formation of a ‘common market’ by the six, provided that ‘the whole of free Europe will have access’. Churchill added, “we genuinely wish to join”.

But Churchill also warned:

“If, on the other hand, the European trade community were to be permanently restricted to the six nations, the results might be worse than if nothing were done at all – worse for them as well as for us. It would tend not to unite Europe but to divide it – and not only in the economic field.*” But Churchill also warned:

“If, on the other hand, the European trade community were to be permanently restricted to the six nations, the results might be worse than if nothing were done at all – worse for them as well as for us. It would tend not to unite Europe but to divide it – and not only in the economic field.*”

in August 1961, Churchill wrote:

“I think that the Government are right to apply to join the European Economic Community...”

Edited May 11, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[Johnyo]

UK.....Get your borders back, control yourself, tell foreign folk to go back to their country to make their place great, the UK forefathers paid a high price to make a great country, a small island..

You're not the only country that needs to control it's borders. In Spain there is a group of immigrants, around 800,000 of them, they don't speak our language, don't pay taxes, only socialise amongst themselves, use our who can infrastructures and arrived to our country and with next to no money. It's about time we send these foreignrdets tifolk back to their country. Retired Expat Brits out now!!!!

What a load of rubbish, Spain is doing really well in the EU are they, more probable the next Greece.

Are you Spanish? Do you have to live amongst these ignorant poor immigrants? Are the British the only ones who can control borders? We can't decide who can and can't live in our country? We don't want the retired British ex pats.

Yes, it really is a bug bear, these poor ignorant immigrants that are currently swarming across from North Africa.

Self funding British retirees might just be a different proposition.

You would be best served asking Spain's finance chief. I am sure he would have a definitive answer.

Are you kidding. The rich Brits retired in Spain before the EU was created, now the average British ex pats on shitty pension. You can keep them in your country

[cumgranosalum]

You're not the only country that needs to control it's borders. In Spain there is a group of immigrants, around 800,000 of them, they don't speak our language, don't pay taxes, only socialise amongst themselves, use our who can infrastructures and arrived to our country and with next to no money. It's about time we send these foreignrdets tifolk back to their country. Retired Expat Brits out now!!!!

What a load of rubbish, Spain is doing really well in the EU are they, more probable the next Greece.

Are you Spanish? Do you have to live amongst these ignorant poor immigrants? Are the British the only ones who can control borders? We can't decide who can and can't live in our country? We don't want the retired British ex pats.

Yes, it really is a bug bear, these poor ignorant immigrants that are currently swarming across from North Africa.

Self funding British retirees might just be a different proposition.

You would be best served asking Spain's finance chief. I am sure he would have a definitive answer.

EU will have little effect on immigration as UK is signed up to international treaties concerning migration that will still be binding in or out of the EU.

[Johnyo]

One of the big issues with the leave campaign is to remove the right of free movement. In doing so they will deny the UK population that same right, but of course that doesn't matter. If a Brexiteer doesn't want to live in Europe why should he be bothered about anyone else, after all who would want to go and live in Europe.

"But a lot of Britons do take advantage of free movement to live elsewhere in the EU; they are sipping wine in the south of France, sipping wine in the Italian hills, sipping wine on the Spanish coast... In fact, there are 1.26 million UK citizens living outside the UK in the EU's other 27 member states. "

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-referendum-how-many-uk-citizens-live-european-union-where-infographic-1526116

How many of them are self funding retirees and how many are married to Nationals of the Countries that they have moved to ?

I do not think these people need to worry.

Given Spain's current financial predicament, how many of those self funding retirees do you think that they will want to kick out ?

Not kick them out but go through a rigorous process on language skills and financial status. Not many would remain after that

[SgtRock]

One of the big issues with the leave campaign is to remove the right of free movement. In doing so they will deny the UK population that same right, but of course that doesn't matter. If a Brexiteer doesn't want to live in Europe why should he be bothered about anyone else, after all who would want to go and live in Europe.

"But a lot of Britons do take advantage of free movement to live elsewhere in the EU; they are sipping wine in the south of France, sipping wine in the Italian hills, sipping wine on the Spanish coast... In fact, there are 1.26 million UK citizens living outside the UK in the EU's other 27 member states. "

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-referendum-how-many-uk-citizens-live-european-union-where-infographic-1526116

How many of them are self funding retirees and how many are married to Nationals of the Countries that they have moved to ?

I do not think these people need to worry.

Given Spain's current financial predicament, how many of those self funding retirees do you think that they will want to kick out ?

Not kick them out but go through a rigorous process on language skills and financial status. Not many would remain after that

That is a whole new ballgame.

Regardless of what happens, I would be fairly certain that those who are married to EU Nationals and those that are self funding retirees and are currently in other EU Countries will have nothing to fear.

They will most likely have protected rights.

[Johnyo]

One of the big issues with the leave campaign is to remove the right of free movement. In doing so they will deny the UK population that same right, but of course that doesn't matter. If a Brexiteer doesn't want to live in Europe why should he be bothered about anyone else, after all who would want to go and live in Europe.

"But a lot of Britons do take advantage of free movement to live elsewhere in the EU; they are sipping wine in the south of France, sipping wine in the Italian hills, sipping wine on the Spanish coast... In fact, there are 1.26 million UK citizens living outside the UK in the EU's other 27 member states. "

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-referendum-how-many-uk-citizens-live-european-union-where-infographic-1526116

How many of them are self funding retirees and how many are married to Nationals of the Countries that they have moved to ?

I do not think these people need to worry.

Given Spain's current financial predicament, how many of those self funding retirees do you think that they will want to kick out ?

Not kick them out but go through a rigorous process on language skills and financial status. Not many would remain after that

That is a whole new ballgame.

Regardless of what happens, I would be fairly certain that those who are married to EU Nationals and those that are self funding retirees and are currently in other EU Countries will have nothing to fear.

They will most likely have protected rights.

Yes the EU screwed this! It allowed all these immigrants living in our country with no language skills, not paying taxes just because they had a pension and they could scrape by. I'm with the leave group so that we can control the quality of retirees.

[sandyf]

Lets put the trade argument to bed once and for all.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/10/uk-trade-deficit-hits-new-record-of-24bn-pounds-eu-referendum-brexit

It is a plain and simple fact. The EU is shrinking year on year and needs the UK far more than the UK needs the EU.

Maybe you can explain to people how UK manufacturing is going to extricate itself from the current EU legislation and continue to trade with the EU or any other major economy.

The transition to new legislation is not going to happen overnight and is going to be expensive, both financially and in terms of jobs but no one wants to talk about that.

UK Manufacturers that are currently trading with the rest of the EU are complying with all EU legislation. Why would that suddenly change because the UK exits the EU ?

What new legislation ? Are you aware of something that I am not ? It is a tad difficult to have a discussion on something, that to date, does not exist.

A large percentage of UK manufactured products are subject to EU directives and subject to certification and product marking under EU legislation. Certification and the authority to mark the product is issued by EU approved entities known as notified bodies. At the moment there is just over 200 such notified bodies in the UK.

Take away the legislation that controls the certification system and indirectly the manufacturing process and you take away the proof of conformity.

The UK would need to introduce similar legislation to establish international conformity and allow product to be traded.

CE Marking is the symbol as shown on the top of this page. The letters "CE" are the abbreviation of French phrase "Conformité Européene" which literally means "European Conformity". The term initially used was "EC Mark" and it was officially replaced by "CE Marking" in the Directive 93/68/EEC in 1993. "CE Marking" is now used in all EU official documents.

*Product Directives contains the "essential requirements" and/or "performance levels" and "Harmonized Standards" to which the products must conform. Harmonized Standards are the technical specifications (European Standards or Harmonization Documents) which are established by several European standards agencies (CEN, CENELEC, etc).

1. CE Marking on a product is a manufacturer's declaration that the product complies with the essential requirements of the relevant European health, safety and environmental protection legislation, in practice by many of the so-called Product Directives.*
2. CE Marking on a product indicates to governmental officials that the product may be legally placed on the market in their country.
3. CE Marking on a product ensures the free movement of the product within the EFTA & European Union (EU) single market (total 28 countries), and
4. CE Marking on a product permits the withdrawal of the non-conforming products by customs and enforcement/vigilance authorities.

http://www.ce-marking.org/what-is-ce-marking.html

[cumgranosalum]

One of the big issues with the leave campaign is to remove the right of free movement. In doing so they will deny the UK population that same right, but of course that doesn't matter. If a Brexiteer doesn't want to live in Europe why should he be bothered about anyone else, after all who would want to go and live in Europe.

"But a lot of Britons do take advantage of free movement to live elsewhere in the EU; they are sipping wine in the south of France, sipping wine in the Italian hills, sipping wine on the Spanish coast... In fact, there are 1.26 million UK citizens living outside the UK in the EU's other 27 member states. "

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-referendum-how-many-uk-citizens-live-european-union-where-infographic-1526116

How many of them are self funding retirees and how many are married to Nationals of the Countries that they have moved to ?

I do not think these people need to worry.

Given Spain's current financial predicament, how many of those self funding retirees do you think that they will want to kick out ?

Not kick them out but go through a rigorous process on language skills and financial status. Not many would remain after that

that would work on the expats in Thailand too!

Edited May 11, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

UK Manufacturers that are currently trading with the rest of the EU are complying with all EU legislation. Why would that suddenly change because the UK exits the EU ?" -

Because the EU can impose tariffs to protect industries within their borders. ...and UK would have to re-negotiate these deals from OUTSIDE the EU.

[sandyf]

One of the big issues with the leave campaign is to remove the right of free movement. In doing so they will deny the UK population that same right, but of course that doesn't matter. If a Brexiteer doesn't want to live in Europe why should he be bothered about anyone else, after all who would want to go and live in Europe.

"But a lot of Britons do take advantage of free movement to live elsewhere in the EU; they are sipping wine in the south of France, sipping wine in the Italian hills, sipping wine on the Spanish coast... In fact, there are 1.26 million UK citizens living outside the UK in the EU's other 27 member states. "

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-referendum-how-many-uk-citizens-live-european-union-where-infographic-1526116

How many of them are self funding retirees and how many are married to Nationals of the Countries that they have moved to ?

I do not think these people need to worry.

Given Spain's current financial predicament, how many of those self funding retirees do you think that they will want to kick out ?

Missed the point completely, nothing to with those that are there.

The Brexiteers want to deny that same opportunity to anyone else that would want to go.

[Johnyo]

One of the big issues with the leave campaign is to remove the right of free movement. In doing so they will deny the UK population that same right, but of course that doesn't matter. If a Brexiteer doesn't want to live in Europe why should he be bothered about anyone else, after all who would want to go and live in Europe.

"But a lot of Britons do take advantage of free movement to live elsewhere in the EU; they are sipping wine in the south of France, sipping wine in the Italian hills, sipping wine on the Spanish coast... In fact, there are 1.26 million UK citizens living outside the UK in the EU's other 27 member states. "

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-referendum-how-many-uk-citizens-live-european-union-where-infographic-1526116

How many of them are self funding retirees and how many are married to Nationals of the Countries that they have moved to ?

I do not think these people need to worry.

Given Spain's current financial predicament, how many of those self funding retirees do you think that they will want to kick out ?

Not kick them out but go through a rigorous process on language skills and financial status. Not many would remain after that

that would work on the expats in Thailand too!

And not much different from what the British government will be asking of foreigners if Brexit was successful Edited May 11, 2016 by Johnyo

[Jip99]

One of the big issues with the leave campaign is to remove the right of free movement. In doing so they will deny the UK population that same right, but of course that doesn't matter. If a Brexiteer doesn't want to live in Europe why should he be bothered about anyone else, after all who would want to go and live in Europe.

"But a lot of Britons do take advantage of free movement to live elsewhere in the EU; they are sipping wine in the south of France, sipping wine in the Italian hills, sipping wine on the Spanish coast... In fact, there are 1.26 million UK citizens living outside the UK in the EU's other 27 member states. "

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-referendum-how-many-uk-citizens-live-european-union-where-infographic-1526116

How many of them are self funding retirees and how many are married to Nationals of the Countries that they have moved to ?

I do not think these people need to worry.

Given Spain's current financial predicament, how many of those self funding retirees do you think that they will want to kick out ?

Not kick them out but go through a rigorous process on language skills and financial status. Not many would remain after that

.... and your source for this statement is ?

Maybe add this to the pile of scaremongering:-

EXCLUSIVE: EU Remain says Brexit would result in asteroid collision with London

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6301/exclusive_eu_remain_says_brexit_would_result_in_asteroid_collision_with_london

[dick dasterdly]

Nontabury - exactly - good example of the twaddle and nonsense the Brexiteers post

I hadn't even finished reading the rest of this thread before this post convinced me that it was time to register to vote.

I'm still not sure either way as there are few facts - just opinions. But arrogance, twaddle and nonsense like this is pushing me further towards the 'leave' side.

[Johnyo]

One of the big issues with the leave campaign is to remove the right of free movement. In doing so they will deny the UK population that same right, but of course that doesn't matter. If a Brexiteer doesn't want to live in Europe why should he be bothered about anyone else, after all who would want to go and live in Europe.

"But a lot of Britons do take advantage of free movement to live elsewhere in the EU; they are sipping wine in the south of France, sipping wine in the Italian hills, sipping wine on the Spanish coast... In fact, there are 1.26 million UK citizens living outside the UK in the EU's other 27 member states. "

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-referendum-how-many-uk-citizens-live-european-union-where-infographic-1526116

How many of them are self funding retirees and how many are married to Nationals of the Countries that they have moved to ?

I do not think these people need to worry.

Given Spain's current financial predicament, how many of those self funding retirees do you think that they will want to kick out ?

Not kick them out but go through a rigorous process on language skills and financial status. Not many would remain after that

.... and your source for this statement is ?

Maybe add this to the pile of scaremongering:-

EXCLUSIVE: EU Remain says Brexit would result in asteroid collision with London

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6301/exclusive_eu_remain_says_brexit_would_result_in_asteroid_collision_with_london

I am the source This is how I feel. How would you feel if you had 800,000 immigrants living in your country that didn't speak your language?

[Felipesed]

I am the source This is how I feel. How would you feel if you had 800,000 immigrants living in your country that didn't speak your language?

I seriously doubt that you are Spanish.

You write using English constructs, completely different to how even well-educated Spanish write English.

Also you do not speak for all Spanish people.

I lived in Spain for 6 years, and although you are correct about the lack of language skills of some of them, many Spanish villages, particularly in Axarquia and Alpujarras only still exist because of German and British immigrants.

Lack of work has driven the young men and women out of the villages, and tending olives and almonds holds little attraction for them.

You do know that the Spanish sherry industry was started by British people , I suppose?

[dick dasterdly]

I am flattered.

Ok, here are a few points to consider.

While a union of European Nations is considered to be a good idea to prevent the conflicts of WW1 & WW2, the concept of a "United States of Europe" as proposed by Robert Schuman, fails to take into account the vastly different economies and cultures of the countries comprising the Continent of Europe.

A pact to pool steel and coal production between 2 countries cannot be extrapolated to 20 odd independent Nations without a centralised governing bureaucracy, and of course, a common currency.

The founding fathers of the EU obviously were aware of this, and so the present structure of an unelected Commission came about.

Through various treaties, Rome, 1958, Maastricht, 1993, Lisbon, 2009, the Commission has consolidated its power and reduced the Parliaments of participating countries to powerless shells.

All this without the consent of the population because in those countries that had referenda, the governments lied about the effects the treaties would have.

To concentrate on the UK, Britain pays a lot of money into the EU and has no say in how it is spent. New aerodromes in Spain, still unused, an excellent road network there and in Portugal, massive subsidies to French farmers.

Compare that to the UK where no new roads have been built for 20 years, the existing ones are not maintained, and The countries busiest airport is the most under-developed of any 1st world nation.

It has allowed unlimited immigration of mostly unskilled workers, with no criminal records check.

There is over-crowding in schools, hospitals are underfunded and overworked, and there is a huge shortage of affordable housing.

The very generous UK benefits system has encouraged this immigration, not all from the EU obviously, and all "free movement" has achieved is the flow of economic migrants from the poorer countries into UK and Germany.

Under the present system the British people have no say as to where and how their money is spent, who can enter the country, and what laws are imposed upon them by the EU bureaucracy.

You remember the Directives regarding incandescent light bulbs, vacuum cleaners; well the latest plan is to restrict the availability of kettles and toasters!

This is just an example of the interfering nature of the EU Commission.

I presume you are aware of the latest pearl of wisdom from Jean-Claude Juncker, wherein he calls for Prime Ministers not to listen to their voters? Then the EU has the temerity to lecture other countries on democracy!

Then of course, we come to the problem of the ECHR, although not an intrinsic part of the EU, which consistently undermines the authority of the British Government, and prevents the removal of criminals and terrorists.

As to the economic arguments for leaving, obviously one cannot predict the future, but the UK has successfully traded throughout the world for hundreds of years, and there is no reason why this cannot continue.

The other countries of the EU still need what Britain produces.

To précis, the EU is very expensive for the UK, dictates policies and makes laws without the consent of the people, and is a failed experiment in "big government", and the worst fear of the EU Commission is that a British exit would trigger a similar exodus from other countries whose people are waking up to the fact that being in the EU is not worth the trouble and expense.

Thank you for taking the time present a reasoned argument

I have been banging on here about the fact that it is a complex issue in my opinion. On balance, I conclude the benefits out weigh the disadvantages

A number of EU countries have substantially better living conditions and social structures than we have. I found both Germany and Denmark were far in front of the U.K.

Some of your comments I agree with, others not

For example I think EU social democratic principles are a useful counterweight to Tory and American red in tooth and claw capitalism

I also think that banning incandescent lamps was a good move

Again, thanks for the useful input

And this is how we should be debating the issue - agreeing or disagreeing with reasoned arguments.

Any argument that relies on 'you're stupid/uninformed/uneducated if you don't agree with me' is only ever going to be a vote loser.

[Mosha]

I'll with what Winnie said.

“If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea”.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

I'm assuming you don't mean Winnie the Pooh? - it's an unfortunate quote to choose as Churchill was by and large was pro EU.

Winston Churchill said this but it has been taken out of context and joined with other comments artificially by the Brexiteers.

here is the true context.....

"Churchill shouted this remark to the French leader, General Charles de Gaulle, in a raging row on the eve of the Normandy landings in 1944. Churchill had a roller coaster relationship with de Gaulle and wanted to show his loyalty to the US President, Franklin Roosevelt. Subsequently, Churchill also angrily added to de Gaulle: “Every time I have to decide between you and Roosevelt, I will always choose Roosevelt.” (Later, they made up over dinner and fine wine.)* - Jon Danzig

He also said the following

In 1953 he said...

“"Where do we stand? We are not members of the European Defence Community, nor do we intend to be merged in a Federal European system. We feel we have a special relation to both. This can be expressed by prepositions, by the preposition "with" but not "of"—we are with them, but not of them. We have our own Commonwealth and Empire."

Of course now we DON”T have empire

In 1948 he said

““We cannot aim at anything less than the Union of Europe as a whole, and we look forward with confidence to the day when that Union will be achieved.”

a debate in June 1950 in the House of Commons to discuss a united Europe, Churchill said that he could not “at present” foresee Britain being “a member of a Federal Union of Europe”. However, Churchill went on to explain that this was primarily because of Britain’s position, “at the centre of the British Empire and Commonwealth”, and, “our fraternal association with the United States of America.” All that was to change during the course of the 1950s and 1960s.

Churchill made his last speech about Europe at London’s Central Hall, Westminster in July 1957; some four months after six founding nations established the European Economic Community by signing The Treaty of Rome (France, Italy, West Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands and Luxembourg). Churchill welcomed the formation of a ‘common market’ by the six, provided that ‘the whole of free Europe will have access’. Churchill added, “we genuinely wish to join”.

But Churchill also warned:

“If, on the other hand, the European trade community were to be permanently restricted to the six nations, the results might be worse than if nothing were done at all – worse for them as well as for us. It would tend not to unite Europe but to divide it – and not only in the economic field.*” But Churchill also warned:

“If, on the other hand, the European trade community were to be permanently restricted to the six nations, the results might be worse than if nothing were done at all – worse for them as well as for us. It would tend not to unite Europe but to divide it – and not only in the economic field.*”

in August 1961, Churchill wrote:

“I think that the Government are right to apply to join the European Economic Community...”

Re 1953 "nor do we intend to be drawn into a European Federal System"

That's what's coming

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10041817/Federal-Europe-will-be-a-reality-in-a-few-years-says-Jose-Manuel-Barroso.html

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

[nontabury]

I'll with what Winnie said.

“If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea”.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

I'm assuming you don't mean Winnie the Pooh? - it's an unfortunate quote to choose as Churchill was by and large was pro EU.

Winston Churchill said this but it has been taken out of context and joined with other comments artificially by the Brexiteers.

here is the true context.....

"Churchill shouted this remark to the French leader, General Charles de Gaulle, in a raging row on the eve of the Normandy landings in 1944. Churchill had a roller coaster relationship with de Gaulle and wanted to show his loyalty to the US President, Franklin Roosevelt. Subsequently, Churchill also angrily added to de Gaulle: “Every time I have to decide between you and Roosevelt, I will always choose Roosevelt.” (Later, they made up over dinner and fine wine.)* - Jon Danzig

He also said the following

In 1953 he said...

“"Where do we stand? We are not members of the European Defence Community, nor do we intend to be merged in a Federal European system. We feel we have a special relation to both. This can be expressed by prepositions, by the preposition "with" but not "of"—we are with them, but not of them. We have our own Commonwealth and Empire."

Of course now we DON”T have empire

In 1948 he said

““We cannot aim at anything less than the Union of Europe as a whole, and we look forward with confidence to the day when that Union will be achieved.”

a debate in June 1950 in the House of Commons to discuss a united Europe, Churchill said that he could not “at present” foresee Britain being “a member of a Federal Union of Europe”. However, Churchill went on to explain that this was primarily because of Britain’s position, “at the centre of the British Empire and Commonwealth”, and, “our fraternal association with the United States of America.” All that was to change during the course of the 1950s and 1960s.

Churchill made his last speech about Europe at London’s Central Hall, Westminster in July 1957; some four months after six founding nations established the European Economic Community by signing The Treaty of Rome (France, Italy, West Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands and Luxembourg). Churchill welcomed the formation of a ‘common market’ by the six, provided that ‘the whole of free Europe will have access’. Churchill added, “we genuinely wish to join”.

But Churchill also warned:

“If, on the other hand, the European trade community were to be permanently restricted to the six nations, the results might be worse than if nothing were done at all – worse for them as well as for us. It would tend not to unite Europe but to divide it – and not only in the economic field.*” But Churchill also warned:

“If, on the other hand, the European trade community were to be permanently restricted to the six nations, the results might be worse than if nothing were done at all – worse for them as well as for us. It would tend not to unite Europe but to divide it – and not only in the economic field.*”

in August 1961, Churchill wrote:

“I think that the Government are right to apply to join the European Economic Community...”

I also agreed that the UK should join that trading unit called the EEC. However I soon discovered that I and millions more had in,fact been completely deceived into what is now referred to as the EU.

[nontabury]

You're not the only country that needs to control it's borders. In Spain there is a group of immigrants, around 800,000 of them, they don't speak our language, don't pay taxes, only socialise amongst themselves, use our who can infrastructures and arrived to our country and with next to no money. It's about time we send these foreignrdets tifolk back to their country. Retired Expat Brits out now!!!!

What a load of rubbish, Spain is doing really well in the EU are they, more probable the next Greece.

Are you Spanish? Do you have to live amongst these ignorant poor immigrants? Are the British the only ones who can control borders? We can't decide who can and can't live in our country? We don't want the retired British ex pats.

Yes, it really is a bug bear, these poor ignorant immigrants that are currently swarming across from North Africa.

Self funding British retirees might just be a different proposition.

You would be best served asking Spain's finance chief. I am sure he would have a definitive answer.

EU will have little effect on immigration as UK is signed up to international treaties concerning migration that will still be binding in or out of the EU.

No they will Definitely Not.

[cumgranosalum]

es and how many are married to Nationals of the Countries that they have moved to ?

I do not think these people need to worry.

Given Spain's current financial predicament, how many of those self funding retirees do you think that they will want to kick out ?

Not kick them out but go through a rigorous process on language skills and financial status. Not many would remain after that

.... and your source for this statement is ?

Maybe add this to the pile of scaremongering:-

EXCLUSIVE: EU Remain says Brexit would result in asteroid collision with London

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6301/exclusive_eu_remain_says_brexit_would_result_in_asteroid_collision_with_london

I am the source This is how I feel. How would you feel if you had 800,000 immigrants living in your country that didn't speak your language?

Privileged - what language is that? Welsh?

Edited May 11, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

You're not the only country that needs to control it's borders. In Spain there is a group of immigrants, around 800,000 of them, they don't speak our language, don't pay taxes, only socialise amongst themselves, use our who can infrastructures and arrived to our country and with next to no money. It's about time we send these foreignrdets tifolk back to their country. Retired Expat Brits out now!!!!

What a load of rubbish, Spain is doing really well in the EU are they, more probable the next Greece.

Are you Spanish? Do you have to live amongst these ignorant poor immigrants? Are the British the only ones who can control borders? We can't decide who can and can't live in our country? We don't want the retired British ex pats.

Yes, it really is a bug bear, these poor ignorant immigrants that are currently swarming across from North Africa.

Self funding British retirees might just be a different proposition.

You would be best served asking Spain's finance chief. I am sure he would have a definitive answer.

EU will have little effect on immigration as UK is signed up to international treaties concerning migration that will still be binding in or out of the EU.

No they will Definitely Not.

"Self funding" - come on, you seem to like this term, if you are going to use it over and over lets hear your definition.

[cumgranosalum]

I'll with what Winnie said.

“If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea”.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

I'm assuming you don't mean Winnie the Pooh? - it's an unfortunate quote to choose as Churchill was by and large was pro EU.

Winston Churchill said this but it has been taken out of context and joined with other comments artificially by the Brexiteers.

here is the true context.....

"Churchill shouted this remark to the French leader, General Charles de Gaulle, in a raging row on the eve of the Normandy landings in 1944. Churchill had a roller coaster relationship with de Gaulle and wanted to show his loyalty to the US President, Franklin Roosevelt. Subsequently, Churchill also angrily added to de Gaulle: “Every time I have to decide between you and Roosevelt, I will always choose Roosevelt.” (Later, they made up over dinner and fine wine.)* - Jon Danzig

He also said the following

In 1953 he said...

“"Where do we stand? We are not members of the European Defence Community, nor do we intend to be merged in a Federal European system. We feel we have a special relation to both. This can be expressed by prepositions, by the preposition "with" but not "of"—we are with them, but not of them. We have our own Commonwealth and Empire."

Of course now we DON”T have empire

In 1948 he said

““We cannot aim at anything less than the Union of Europe as a whole, and we look forward with confidence to the day when that Union will be achieved.”

a debate in June 1950 in the House of Commons to discuss a united Europe, Churchill said that he could not “at present” foresee Britain being “a member of a Federal Union of Europe”. However, Churchill went on to explain that this was primarily because of Britain’s position, “at the centre of the British Empire and Commonwealth”, and, “our fraternal association with the United States of America.” All that was to change during the course of the 1950s and 1960s.

Churchill made his last speech about Europe at London’s Central Hall, Westminster in July 1957; some four months after six founding nations established the European Economic Community by signing The Treaty of Rome (France, Italy, West Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands and Luxembourg). Churchill welcomed the formation of a ‘common market’ by the six, provided that ‘the whole of free Europe will have access’. Churchill added, “we genuinely wish to join”.

But Churchill also warned:

“If, on the other hand, the European trade community were to be permanently restricted to the six nations, the results might be worse than if nothing were done at all – worse for them as well as for us. It would tend not to unite Europe but to divide it – and not only in the economic field.*” But Churchill also warned:

“If, on the other hand, the European trade community were to be permanently restricted to the six nations, the results might be worse than if nothing were done at all – worse for them as well as for us. It would tend not to unite Europe but to divide it – and not only in the economic field.*”

in August 1961, Churchill wrote:

“I think that the Government are right to apply to join the European Economic Community...”

Re 1953 "nor do we intend to be drawn into a European Federal System"

That's what's coming

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10041817/Federal-Europe-will-be-a-reality-in-a-few-years-says-Jose-Manuel-Barroso.html

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

but surely by Brexit's own admission, that is scaremongering?

[Johnyo]

es and how many are married to Nationals of the Countries that they have moved to ?

I do not think these people need to worry.

Given Spain's current financial predicament, how many of those self funding retirees do you think that they will want to kick out ?

Not kick them out but go through a rigorous process on language skills and financial status. Not many would remain after that

.... and your source for this statement is ?

Maybe add this to the pile of scaremongering:-

EXCLUSIVE: EU Remain says Brexit would result in asteroid collision with London

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6301/exclusive_eu_remain_says_brexit_would_result_in_asteroid_collision_with_london

I am the source This is how I feel. How would you feel if you had 800,000 immigrants living in your country that didn't speak your language?

Privileged - what language is that? Welsh?

So you would have no problems with 800,O00 Bulgarians living on the UK and not speaking a world of English? That is what is happening in Spain with the British retirees...Not a word os Spanish. You think that is OK?

[cumgranosalum]

Churchill knew as well as any other poplitician in the post war years that UK would not thrive without empire so joining the UNION was the answer.

[nontabury]

UK Manufacturers that are currently trading with the rest of the EU are complying with all EU legislation. Why would that suddenly change because the UK exits the EU ?" -

Because the EU can impose tariffs to protect industries within their borders. ...and UK would have to re-negotiate these deals from OUTSIDE the EU.

Same as the Chinese, who I believe do not have a trading agreement with the EU, but do manage to sell rather a large amount of different products.

[dick dasterdly]

My concerns are largely different to the majority as I largely approve of the EU - but hate its corruption and cost (as a result of corruption and WAY overly generous salaries).

I'm also not keen on the way immigrants have reduced wages for the low paid to the minimum wage - at best.

[dick dasterdly]

es and how many are married to Nationals of the Countries that they have moved to ?

I do not think these people need to worry.

Given Spain's current financial predicament, how many of those self funding retirees do you think that they will want to kick out ?

Not kick them out but go through a rigorous process on language skills and financial status. Not many would remain after that

.... and your source for this statement is ?

Maybe add this to the pile of scaremongering:-

EXCLUSIVE: EU Remain says Brexit would result in asteroid collision with London

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6301/exclusive_eu_remain_says_brexit_would_result_in_asteroid_collision_with_london

I am the source This is how I feel. How would you feel if you had 800,000 immigrants living in your country that didn't speak your language?

Privileged - what language is that? Welsh?

So you would have no problems with 800,O00 Bulgarians living on the UK and not speaking a world of English? That is what is happening in Spain with the British retirees...Not a word os Spanish. You think that is OK?

Please go away. You are either a troll or just hate foreigners living in your country. Either way, it has nothing to do with this thread.

[Kwasaki]

UK.....Get your borders back, control yourself, tell foreign folk to go back to their country to make their place great, the UK forefathers paid a high price to make a great country, a small island..

You're not the only country that needs to control it's borders. In Spain there is a group of immigrants, around 800,000 of them, they don't speak our language, don't pay taxes, only socialise amongst themselves, use our who can infrastructures and arrived to our country and with next to no money. It's about time we send these foreignrdets tifolk back to their country. Retired Expat Brits out now!!!!

What a load of rubbish, Spain is doing really well in the EU are they, more probable the next Greece.

Are you Spanish? Do you have to live amongst these ignorant poor immigrants? Are the British the only ones who can control borders? We can't decide who can and can't live in our country? We don't want the retired British ex pats.,nothing to do with money.They are just despicable parasites who don't integrate and the majority have no money. The only retired expats that should be allowed to live in Spain should at least speak our language and have more cash than the meager pension the majority have to spend.

1. No I am English. 2. I live among many poor & rich people in our village. 3. Well England is on an island. 4. Well get your Spain out of the EU then. 5. Only know 2 English people that live in Lanzarote retired but not poor and they said nearly everyone speaks English.

Next.

[Johnyo]

es and how many are married to Nationals of the Countries that they have moved to ?
I do not think these people need to worry.

Given Spain's current financial predicament, how many of those self funding retirees do you think that they will want to kick out ?

Not kick them out but go through a rigorous process on language skills and financial status. Not many would remain after that

.... and your source for this statement is ?





Maybe add this to the pile of scaremongering:-
EXCLUSIVE: EU Remain says Brexit would result in asteroid collision with London


http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6301/exclusive_eu_remain_says_brexit_would_result_in_asteroid_collision_with_london

I am the source This is how I feel. How would you feel if you had 800,000 immigrants living in your country that didn't speak your language?

Privileged - what language is that? Welsh?

So you would have no problems with 800,O00 Bulgarians living on the UK and not speaking a world of English? That is what is happening in Spain with the British retirees...Not a word os Spanish. You think that is OK?

Please go away. You are either a troll or just hate foreigners living in your country. Either way, it has nothing to do with this thread.

Ha ha the hypocrisy of the Brexiters. You want control of your borders but when it affects your own immigrants because another country doesn't want them they get all offended. Answer my question if you can argue coherently instead of being dismissive. Do you think it's OK for nearly a million people to live in a foreign country without being able to say more than una cerveza por favor?