The argument against dual pricing in Thailand

[Tomtomtom69]

illegal on the basis of anti-discrimination laws

Only for Thais. Thai constitutions prohibits discrimination only for Thai people.

2007 Constitution, Article 5, "The Thai people, irrespective of their origins, sexes or religions, shall enjoy equal protection under this Constitution."

2014 Interim Charter, Article 4 recognizes human dignity, rights, liberties and equality of the Thais.

Such xenophobia could eventually cause unravelling of the ASEAN Community. It would be like the EU wherein citizens would have differing human rights and liberties depending on the country of their citizenship.

Well that doesn't mean anything because I have heard anecdotal reports of white, westerners with Thai citizenship who were still asked to pay extra, even more reports of mix-race "luk kreung" adults or children who've been asked to pay more, etc.

Also heard reports of rich Thais being asked to pay more, as well as Thais who immigrated abroad and come back with foreign accents and/or an inability to speak Thai. Of course in the latter two cases, I'm glad they are often (though not always) being discriminated against because both groups are rich, with the latter group likely not even holding Thai citizenship they are not entitled to local prices just on that basis.

Also, the human dignity, liberty, equality etc. rights are very vaguely defined. Not sure if the writers of the constitution feel that being asked to pay extra is a form of discrimination or loss of human dignity. I think you are conflating the concept of western style human rights with Thai style human rights. ​

Also, I don't think you know what you are talking about regarding ASEAN/AEC. For starters, many ASEAN countries already practice dual pricing in some form (and have been doing so all along), actually nearly all of them do, though dual pricing is very rare in Malaysia and Singapore, and not even very common in Vietnam. So while I condemn the practice in Thailand, even if Thailand eliminated it, do you think Cambodia would follow suit? Given the legendary level of corruption in that country, plus the argument that their people are poor, they would laugh at any attempt to abolish the practice there. ASEAN tourists are also a major source of tourist arrivals in other member states, so abolishing the practice (even just for them) would mean the loss of a big cash cow. It would probably also deeply offend non-ASEAN nationals, who would clearly see the practice as what it is: racist.

[jesimps]

I just don't use anywhere that has an entrance fee, so instead of getting the Thai price from me to see the rubbish on offer, they get sod all.

[kannot]

I do not mind to pay a fee to entrance to a National Park, if it is a little bit higher then for the locals (Thais) i also don't mind if there is not a double pricing for the same attraction: BUT i get more than angry about the maintaining of the National Parks, nothing is provided in english or any other language, the parks are badly maintained or rotten down short after openings (my experiance lately atSam Roy Yor NP)

I don't see where all the money goes!!!!!!!!!!

So the only solution is: stay away from all these places and don't bring family or friends!

The Sam Roi Yot mangrove walk is a death trap, badly broken wooden walkways...............if it wasnt so dangerous it would be hilarious.

To visit the caves there go after 5pm ...theyve all gone home no entrance fee at all.......beat em at their own game..take your own torch

[orchidlady]

Been to two national parks over Songkran, Krabi and Khao Sok. Both accepted my Thai gov't work ID to pay local price, but at Khao Sok the guy said he would only let me in at Thai price if I understood the questions he was asking me in Thai-where do you work, where do you live, where are you from, where are you staying, etc. (for a minute I thought he was evaluating whether I would get a Thai ED visa renewal). Just smiled and answered in Thai and he let me in at the local price.

[teacherpaul]

I asked my Canadian friend if the Canadian government parks and private ventures practiced dual pricing against non-Canadians.

He looked at me dumbfounded and as if I'd just landed from outer space!

"No" he said. "We take pride in our country and ourselves" "We work to welcome people not offend them."

When I visited Doi Inthanon this season and paid several hundred baht more than my Thai friend only to find rubbish littering the place, washrooms that reeked like horse stables this notion of "pride in one's country and pride in oneself" came to mind.

I really didn't feel "welcomed" nor "un-offended".

Sad isn't it?

Excellent point, well made. Unfortunately the standard answer is "If you don't like it, do home" from both Thais and wannabe's.

Who in their right mind would want to be Thai?

[ddavidovsky]

Price discrimination is sound economics and is commonly practised in all sorts of ways and places worldwide.

National parks and cultural sites in Thailand provide exotic value for foreign visitors and they should reasonably pay more than locals, for whom it's their natural heritage. Problem is, they gouge the tourists by charging up to 10x more. Just make it 50% higher for foreigners. End of discussion.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

I asked my Canadian friend if the Canadian government parks and private ventures practiced dual pricing against non-Canadians.

He looked at me dumbfounded and as if I'd just landed from outer space!

"No" he said. "We take pride in our country and ourselves" "We work to welcome people not offend them."

When I visited Doi Inthanon this season and paid several hundred baht more than my Thai friend only to find rubbish littering the place, washrooms that reeked like horse stables this notion of "pride in one's country and pride in oneself" came to mind.

I really didn't feel "welcomed" nor "un-offended".

Sad isn't it?

As a Canadian, I can tell you your friend is wrong or perhaps doesn't go out much.

There is in fact dual pricing at parks in Canada but of course only minorities get away with it.

Take a walk on some of the hiking trails and see what happens when you get to the Indian land.

[Bluespunk]

Price discrimination is sound economics and is commonly practised in all sorts of ways and places worldwide.

National parks and cultural sites in Thailand provide exotic value for foreign visitors and they should reasonably pay more than locals, for whom it's their natural heritage. Problem is, they gouge the tourists by charging up to 10x more. Just make it 50% higher for foreigners. End of discussion.

Not for me I'm afraid.

[Boatfreak]

Of course the dual pricing is necessary because the Thai information signs are all nicely translated in English everywhere right?

[Bluespunk]

I asked my Canadian friend if the Canadian government parks and private ventures practiced dual pricing against non-Canadians.

He looked at me dumbfounded and as if I'd just landed from outer space!

"No" he said. "We take pride in our country and ourselves" "We work to welcome people not offend them."

When I visited Doi Inthanon this season and paid several hundred baht more than my Thai friend only to find rubbish littering the place, washrooms that reeked like horse stables this notion of "pride in one's country and pride in oneself" came to mind.

I really didn't feel "welcomed" nor "un-offended".

Sad isn't it?

As a Canadian, I can tell you your friend is wrong or perhaps doesn't go out much.

There is in fact dual pricing at parks in Canada but of course only minorities get away with it.

Take a walk on some of the hiking trails and see what happens when you get to the Indian land.

They are probably still pissed off over the facts that all the land was once theirs and that people still refer to them as Indians.

Some folks just can't let go of a grudge, eh.

[ddavidovsky]

Price discrimination is sound economics and is commonly practised in all sorts of ways and places worldwide.

National parks and cultural sites in Thailand provide exotic value for foreign visitors and they should reasonably pay more than locals, for whom it's their natural heritage. Problem is, they gouge the tourists by charging up to 10x more. Just make it 50% higher for foreigners. End of discussion.

Not for me I'm afraid.

You do realise that every time you pay more for something in an airport, at any high class venue, or anywhere there's a captive market - you are subject to price discrimination? It's exactly the same thing. Where the money is, the price will be higher, that's the economics of it.

You can't change that on the basis of some woolly egalitarian principle. Really, the issue is economic, relating to perceived value and the ability to pay - not at all to do with social or racial discrimination, as many people would have it.

Local people should certainly pay less to visit their own national parks. It's a worse form of discrimination if they have to pay the same as everyone else.

[smotherb]

I don't think dual pricing is so unusual. In the US, many state parks, historical sites, and campgrounds charge higher rates for out-of-state residents. The logic, I believe, is that state residents pay taxes in the state.

Disney World in Orlando, Florida charges less for Florida residents. Their logic, I believe, is to persuade Floridians to continue visiting.

In Thailand, there may be some logic behind foreigners being charged more--at least the ones who do not pay taxes here. Besides, didn't you know, all those damn farangs are rich and/or stupid with their money.

[gandalf12]

The worst of it is when they write the 'Thai Price' in Thai to fool tourists but doing so is so 'Thai'

Quite a while back I went for a hair cut and the price list was all in Thai. That didn't bother me as I could read thee prices anyway but thought I will ask how much for a hair cut. The advertised price was Baht 60. Baht 100 he said. So I pointed to the price list and told him in Thai that says Baht 60. He was not happy but I paid the Baht 60 and he got no tip. Never went back there again. The place I go now has the price in Thai and when asked he quoted the same price as on his Thai list. He is honest and always gets my custom........and a tip.

[gandalf12]

We shouldnt complain about it really but our countries of birth should reciprocate as it is reasonable. The British Museum in London I believe charges the equivalent of Baht 400 so charge Thai's visiting Baht 1,600.

That is fair after all the Thai's who come to England are rich and can afford it.

[mgjackson69]

Over pricing is everywhere in Thailand.

A few days ago i had a farang visit me.

It was very hot so the lady went to our village shop.

She bought ice, 3 small bottles of coke.

Price should have been 10 baht ice, 3x12 baht coke.

She was charged 60 baht. When she told me, i said thats wrong.

Next day my wife went to the same shop, bought same items 46 baht.

My wife asked why did you charge my farang friend 60 baht.

Answer was, she farang tourist she got big money.

Now we will go to the other village shop, he thought he was being smart but has lost a regular customer over his short sighted greed.

The 711 doesn't do that, only those mum and pap stores do. So i boycot them..

I try to patronize the mom and pop shops when I can. But I also know what things should cost.

They get one chance to treat me fairly....otherwise I go to the next.

[Bluespunk]

Price discrimination is sound economics and is commonly practised in all sorts of ways and places worldwide.

National parks and cultural sites in Thailand provide exotic value for foreign visitors and they should reasonably pay more than locals, for whom it's their natural heritage. Problem is, they gouge the tourists by charging up to 10x more. Just make it 50% higher for foreigners. End of discussion.

Not for me I'm afraid.

You do realise that every time you pay more for something in an airport, at any high class venue, or anywhere there's a captive market - you are subject to price discrimination? It's exactly the same thing. Where the money is, the price will be higher, that's the economics of it.

You can't change that on the basis of some woolly egalitarian principle. Really, the issue is economic, relating to perceived value and the ability to pay - not at all to do with social or racial discrimination, as many people would have it.

Local people should certainly pay less to visit their own national parks. It's a worse form of discrimination if they have to pay the same as everyone else.

Nothing wooly about price discrimination based on nationality. It's just plain wrong.

[Strangebrew]

I solved dual pricing I voice my opinion with my wallet if 2 prices are used I say thank you but no thank you turn around and walk away. Just less money I would spend seeing substandard attractions. There loss not mine. Why complain to deaf ears. But when thais visit my country I tell vendors of there practice here and tell them to up the price for Thai's only fair.

[Mook23]

Doesn't bother me at all. I can generally afford the higher price, and I understand the sound economic principle behind it.

Some farangs just relish an opportunity to play the victim.

I suspect if dual pricing was legal in the West, you would be the first to cry "racist". Dual pricing is not not sound economic practise, as it will ultimately drive tourists away. Fool.

It was common business in Spain during 80's (and probably before but I wasn't there then) when tourism started booming there. Spanish friends of ours had a restaurant and always charged waaaaaaaay more to foreigners (sometimes double). All locals people knew. Long-term tourists knew too.

I run a business in the West and have dual prices too: I like you i charge less. I think you're an <deleted> I charge more. Of course the price LISTED is the <deleted> price............ I do not feel ashamed 1 second for doing so and just like the Thai I tell the ones I like I am giving them a discount ;-)

[Mook23]

I solved dual pricing I voice my opinion with my wallet if 2 prices are used I say thank you but no thank you turn around and walk away. Just less money I would spend seeing substandard attractions. There loss not mine. Why complain to deaf ears. But when thais visit my country I tell vendors of there practice here and tell them to up the price for Thai's only fair.

They don't care. The guy at the entrance does NOT report the numbers of people like you so they will never know what difference it would/could make. You turn back, good. You come in, good. You like the miserable waterfall, good. You don't like the miserable waterfall, good. You drive back home and crash your car, good. TIT.

[SoiBiker]

One of my hopes is to one day witness one of these farang tantrums at the entrance to a national park. It must be quite a sight to see a grown man rant about fairness, then turn tall and take his family home rather than drop a few hundred baht on a day out.

[swerver]

I asked my Canadian friend if the Canadian government parks and private ventures practiced dual pricing against non-Canadians.

He looked at me dumbfounded and as if I'd just landed from outer space!

"No" he said. "We take pride in our country and ourselves" "We work to welcome people not offend them."

When I visited Doi Inthanon this season and paid several hundred baht more than my Thai friend only to find rubbish littering the place, washrooms that reeked like horse stables this notion of "pride in one's country and pride in oneself" came to mind.

I really didn't feel "welcomed" nor "un-offended".

Sad isn't it?

For a starter all my visits to areas worth visiting and seeing I did in my early days in Thailand in the mid-fifties+ at which time there was not those pricing problems, the only Thai you would meet at these places were the better off salary wise Thais, who paid the same as the foreigner, the working stiffs working for Thai Baht 65/day were only seen as Thais working at the facility.

As time moved on and I already had done my sightseeing, salaries of the working stiffs Thai kept increasing, plus paid vacation, etc. at which time also the salaries of the expats started to go up in leaps and bounds causing the wide gap between Thai and expats earnings and brought on the dual pricing. Even today 2016 an average Thai worker salary is 1,000 – 4,000 Baht/month versus average foreign worker in her/his country converted to Thai Baht 15,000 – 20,000 Baht. At that salary they’re able to fly halfway around the world on a two week vacation with full salary. So with a salary 4 to 5 times a Thai salary would it then not be fair that the foreigner is charged 4 to 5 times more than a Thai. Personality I think it is fair. Mr. Barrow may not think so, but remember he is a foreign retiree in Thailand regardless of what sort spiel he puts out, not having the salary as a foreign person fully employed, but a pension of lesser amount. The only thing I can see what Thai Immigration should do is when a foreign person is issued a Retirement Visa s/he should be issued a wallet size RETIREMENT CARD which upon producing at the venues to be visited that person will be charged same as a Thai person.

As for the tourist who can afford to pay for airline tickets to fly halfway around the world and staying 2-weeks in hotels and 3-meals a day it is no more than fair that they pay FULL price.

LOL in LOS

[BritManToo]

One of my hopes is to one day witness one of these farang tantrums at the entrance to a national park. It must be quite a sight to see a grown man rant about fairness, then turn tall and take his family home rather than drop a few hundred baht on a day out.

Whoa boy!

I think your imagination is getting away from you.

[chrissables]

I don't think dual pricing is so unusual. In the US, many state parks, historical sites, and campgrounds charge higher rates for out-of-state residents. The logic, I believe, is that state residents pay taxes in the state.

Disney World in Orlando, Florida charges less for Florida residents. Their logic, I believe, is to persuade Floridians to continue visiting.

In Thailand, there may be some logic behind foreigners being charged more--at least the ones who do not pay taxes here. Besides, didn't you know, all those damn farangs are rich and/or stupid with their money.

If we are here we are paying tax here. Probably a lot more than most Thai's.

[ramrod711]

It bothers my Thai wife much more than me. We were at a national park near Ao Nang that was home to a shellfish cemetery, evidently one of only two in the world. They were going to charge me 5 times as much as my wife. She said no, I said we were there, why not see it. Nope, glad it wasn't on my bucket list.

[alien365]

On a family trip, If I ever have an issue, the in-laws always help. Nobody at the counter will listen to me or my missus, but having the in-laws vouch for me and say its not fair, I'm a good guy etc tends to do the trick.

Edited April 22, 2016 by alien365

[SoiBiker]

As in a place where they bury shellfish?

[Bluespunk]

As in a place where they bury shellfish?

http://www.discoverythailand.com/Krabi_Shell_Cemetery.asp

[Laughing Gravy]

 

I go to koh samet every year as it close for me. They wanted me to pay the higher fralng price. But I explained I live here and showed them passport. Also had my son with me and the misses. They said ok pay the Thai price. Made my day.

 

I understand what you are saying the point is that you should not have to show your passport or have your son with you. Its about equality. In the modern world it would be considered racist. here it is just brushed aside as "well you can afford it". I am pretty sure it is not the Bhuddist way either.

In every respect its corrupt, improper and not the way forard for a good business model for tourism.

[Laughing Gravy]

 

I don't think dual pricing is so unusual. In the US, many state parks, historical sites, and campgrounds charge higher rates for out-of-state residents. The logic, I believe, is that state residents pay taxes in the state.

Disney World in Orlando, Florida charges less for Florida residents. Their logic, I believe, is to persuade Floridians to continue visiting.

In Thailand, there may be some logic behind foreigners being charged more--at least the ones who do not pay taxes here. Besides, didn't you know, all those damn farangs are rich and/or stupid with their money.

 

I don't know were this 'don't pay taxes' mentality comes from. A little story. About 10 years ago I frequented a gym that i was one of the first mebers. On my Gym renewal I was informed the price had gone up. I paid it, as it was suited for me in location and equipment. A few montsh later, as I was learning to read Thai. I notice the sign in Thai stated the membership was in fact the old price and not the new. When questioning the owner, I got the you don't pay tax. When I showed him my tax card which showed I was paying probably more than he was making a month, a whole list of excuses came back. I still have the letter written in pidgeon English which I read when I need a good laugh. They were. you sweat more so you pay more. You run faster on the treadmill so you pay more. You lift heavier weights so you pay more. Even you have been here longer than the other members so you pay more. <deleted>. Anyway this is the metality here from mayn. I moved to another gym but the point I am making is, that the view and dieology is not moving forward at all. Those trying to justify dual pricing have to look at their home countries. Can you imagine a price list up in London to see the attractions. Like the London Eye, Tower of london etc. British citizens 50% off whilst Thais pay 200% more. There would be outcry and rightly so. here it is accpeted and justified in the Thais eyes.It is ridiculous and unjust and about time a law was in place, to prevent it. But knowing Thailand it will be a long time off before this happens, if ever in my lifetime.

[pattjock]

There are many cases of dual pricing, some make sense some don’t.

When it comes to dual pricing at privately owned tourist attractions in tourist locations they usually makes perfect sense.

Most of these attractions have been budgeted/and built with the international tourists in mind. Without foreign tourists they would never had been built as the local tourism could never economically support these attractions.

The price you pay, as a foreigner, at these attractions is the regular price that the owner of the attraction had budgeted for. The price locals pay, and sometimes even “local” foreigners, is heavily discounted.

These kinds of discounts are common at tourist attractions all over the world. The purpose of these discounts is to try and draw in the local residents as often as possible to get some additional revenue on top of what the real customers, the international tourists, bring in.

In other countries you may not notice these discounts as they often can only be obtained if you get a local discount card when proving you are a local resident in that town/county/state. The point is they exist everywhere and ultimately they make it cheaper for everyone to visit these attractions.