Leasing a bar in Koh Chang

[sead]

If leasing then never put money on renovations or buy new things. If you're businesses is sucessful the owner perhaps doesn't want to renew the lease. Look in contract who takes care of renovation if something is bad.

[billphillips]

For what it's worth .......

I owned a nightclub and later a bar / restaurant in the uk. I now own a bar in Thailand. It's not near any beach so not particularly a tourist haunt, although some call by.

Step one, decide on a theme for the bar. For example ... is it going to be a low priced regulars drinking hole, a cocktail bar, a restaurant bar, a girlie bar, sport on tv bar, or whatever else you can think up. It's not enough to just open the door and hope to sell a beer or two.

Step two, work out the daily overheads (not including the initial set up price, that becomes your selling price) and calculate your break even point. For example you will need sales of around 800 baht a day to cover your rent alone. Once you have your break even point, try and do some research to find if the target figure is easily achievable. It needs to be!

Step three, study the translated lease to confirm that it is workable and without pitfalls or payment clauses that come back to haunt you. Check out the building and contents, ensuring its all serviceable and secure.

Step four, sort out a reliable staff pool. Try to avoid family and friends as historically these people will soon become ex family and friends. Decide on an incentive for the staff to turn up promptly or to even to turn up at all. You don't need a work visa because you will not be working. It's your call to entertain the clients.

Step five, promote your business in any way that you can. Establish yourself as a friendly but positive employer. Enchant your clients with a warm welcome, a big smile, and a ready ear for all the tales of woe that are going to come your way.

Bars can and do work but a thorough business minded attitude is needed to keep them "on the rails". No customer or staff must be allowed to take control unless they want to buy you out instantly. You have to be the boss at all times and in all eventualities if you succeed or fail it must be by your own hand. By the way Iv never paid the police any money nor do I intend to because I follow the law rather than break it. I have called them for an ejection assist and parted company offering a large bottle of beer by way of thanks. There are countless points to cover, far too many to mention here, most are or can be resolved using a little common sense.

Edited April 30, 2016 by billphillips

[akentryan]

Helps if you save on rent by having living accomodations in the bar. From my experience in Pattaya I only made money when I was in the bar drinking with customers, buying a round etc. Gets tough on the old body after a while. If you already like the sauce and have suficient stamina you may be OK. Initial investment is not bad but doesn't sound like you expect much help from your GF who has no experience anyway. Buy a beauty salon instead?

[qwertymerk]

Helps if you save on rent by having living accomodations in the bar. From my experience in Pattaya I only made money when I was in the bar drinking with customers, buying a round etc. Gets tough on the old body after a while. If you already like the sauce and have suficient stamina you may be OK. Initial investment is not bad but doesn't sound like you expect much help from your GF who has no experience anyway. Buy a beauty salon instead?

True. I'd like to be able to help her though. Suppose I could get another small business on the side.

[al007]

DO NOT DO IT

It is a lovely thought, if you have previously owner and run a pub maybe I am wrong

Probably only one in 50 make it in thailand

If you want it as a hobby and can subsidise it heavily that is a different story

Not being negative just realistic

In any case good luck

[mgjackson69]

Hi if your girlfriend is happy hairdressing why pull her away Im know she goes with you happy why not build her a shop and do hair and sell goods less chance of failure. But good luck

Ill do a crituqe.

Anyone who knows Thailand and its girls will attest to this. Hairdressers are a EUPHEMISM for bargirl....................

5 million registered Hairdressers , 300k actually make a living do hair.

PS failure rate for Salons built for girl is the same opening a bar for same girl. BIG FAT 100%.

I wonder where those stats were pulled from?

[qwertymerk]

Hi if your girlfriend is happy hairdressing why pull her away Im know she goes with you happy why not build her a shop and do hair and sell goods less chance of failure. But good luck

She is a good hairdresser and could run her own salon. Would this be better than the bar idea lol?

Not saying better just a thought still in GF comfort area. I am hairdresser too have own shop and sell other things beer and white whiskey. Husband work so slightly diffrent to you. I also teach in my spare time.7pm to 9pm and Sundays. I only mention as I not want to see you end up the same as other friends of my husband. Who did bar and got don't know word fleeced !!!. If you doing bar sit and talk to GF make sure your strong as it will be silly hours of work. Good luck

Thank you for your advice

My girlfriend is not a professional hairdresser but she can cut hair, extension, blow-dry, shampoo, colour, manicure, pedicure, etc.

Do you work in Koh Chang?

[jacksam]

Britim mentioned ask some farang who has run a bar for some time in koh Chang. Good advice. On white sands beach in the cluster of bars, there is bar at rear, named Wales bar. Farang owner, Bret. Nice fella. Talk to him. At bar every day.

My tuppence worth.....impossible to make money. If a hobby and something for gf to do then fine.

Edited April 30, 2016 by jacksam

[qwertymerk]

Britim mentioned ask some farang who has run a bar for some time in koh Chang. Good advice. On white sands beach in the cluster if bars, there is bar at rear, named Wales bar. Farang owner, Bret. Nice fella. Talk to him. At bar every day.

My tuppence worth.....impossible to make money. If a hobby and something for gf to do then fine.

Thanks for the advice. Yeah I think I know where you mean, the area is called 'Little Pattaya' and they have a few bars with pool tables.

[johnmcc6]

Make sure you have a rock solid lease. It is common here that some landlords let you spend a lot on tarting the place up then when you start making money they will want a share of it or refuse to renew without a huge increase. If you want to sell one day the next guy will want a long lease giving time to get his money back.

[jacksam]

You might also note that bar on very left side has been for sale for ages. Bars are easy to get into hard to get out. Especially with such small xpat community. Unlike say udon thani.

[Hiyaall]

know your numbers. Calculate everything. Know your average sale, average variable costs, fixed costs. Exact percentage of each kind of expenditure. You should be able to rattle off exactly what percentage of the revenue from a bottle of Chang goes where. Ask yourself how your bar is going to be different. If you don't know, be creative and set yourself apart from the other bars. Don't be afraid to experiment. Get on Google or visit other successful bars in other places that have something that your competitors are not doing. Tweak it a bit and copy it. Establish dominance in the areas where people make decisions. If you are targeting tourists, then establish internet dominance with blogs, a relevant and dynamic website, reviews ( yes Doctor them as much as you can), and optimized search parameters. Make sure your staff is highly charismatic, treat them very well and establish relationships where the better you do, the better they do. Look at western styles of commitment to service and adopt an absolute commitment to makeing sure everyone is happy and bend over backwards to make it happen. Run a very tight ship. Successful businesses are successful because of the details. Know exactly your margins for success and make them happen. good luck.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Hiyaall

[ubonjoe]

The OP has asked for this topic to be closed. Instead I have removed several posts that have taken it off topic an were unhelpful. Please do not post unless you have useful info.

Another cleanup has been done.

[The Big Mango]

Your gonna be busy on this thread I fear Ubonjoe

[jacksam]

Yeah right! You kidding he isn't opening a restaurant. A small bar in koh Chang. Where they don't even have customers till late arvo. Bars as op indicated are in the main for men. Even if they are not looking for a girl they are interested in bar with best chicks and competitive beer prices.

Problem with koh Chang for the op is it has very pretty very young girls. Hard to compete on that level.

Look at pattaya now. Say beach road between soi 7 & 8 some bars " all beer 55baht all day all night"

50 baht in plaza 2.

Bars are a dud

[dirtycash]

Question is.. have you any experience running a business or and more specifically a bar in your life ?

If not.. huge chance you will fail.

I am an accountant and even for people who start a business in their home country its hard with a learning period that can be more then a year. Now you are starting a business in a strange country.. and if you don't have relevant experience then it will be even harder as starting a business back home.

its a beer bar for god sake, where do account come into it ?

1+1=2 2+2=4 and so on and so forth and failing that i suggest to OP to take on robblok as your persoanl accountant.......

Edited April 30, 2016 by dirtycash

[ubonjoe]

Your gonna be busy on this thread I fear Ubonjoe

Not if the trolls will stay away.

[sead]

Change of plan.

One of my Thai friends who owns a bar in Koh Chang has told me I can buy into partnership with him for 150,000 baht (for refurbishment). He's been running the bar for 15 years but hasn't got that kind of money lying around to refurbish the bar and make the bar better at the moment so that may be why. He's also getting old and would prefer a bit of help running the bar.

I've spoken to my lawyer at AAA Legal Advisors (based in Bangkok and been running for 27 years) and he has said he thinks it's a great idea. Profits will be split 50/50 and the agreement is that if I walk out, I'm not entitled to anything in the bar. Little money lost if anything goes wrong and I can see what it's really like to run a bar and get some experience from it.

So let me understand something. This guy has owned this bar for 15 years and couldn't save 150000 bht. Now you want to join him and you have to split these money. Actually you splitting the money that doesnt exist. Are you thinking straight?

[menzies233]

Some cash flow figures from the current owner would be interesting to see....taken with a grain of salt, of course.

So why bother asking for them? Something to read before bed?

[qwertymerk]

Change of plan.

One of my Thai friends who owns a bar in Koh Chang has told me I can buy into partnership with him for 150,000 baht (for refurbishment). He's been running the bar for 15 years but hasn't got that kind of money lying around to refurbish the bar and make the bar better at the moment so that may be why. He's also getting old and would prefer a bit of help running the bar.

I've spoken to my lawyer at AAA Legal Advisors (based in Bangkok and been running for 27 years) and he has said he thinks it's a great idea. Profits will be split 50/50 and the agreement is that if I walk out, I'm not entitled to anything in the bar. Little money lost if anything goes wrong and I can see what it's really like to run a bar and get some experience from it.

So let me understand something. This guy has owned this bar for 15 years and couldn't save 150000 bht. Now you want to join him and you have to split these money. Actually you splitting the money that doesnt exist. Are you thinking straight?

That plan has changed too lol. To be honest, the whole thread is a shambles and my mind is puzzled mate.

[The Big Mango]

OP its been a long day posting , go have yourself a beer ,

[qwertymerk]

OP its been a long day posting , go have yourself a beer ,

It really has my friend

[F4UCorsair]

Any advice??

Sure.....just one piece. DON'T!!!!

[BaldPlumber]

OP its been a long day posting , go have yourself a beer ,

And then get back to us and let us know how you got on.

lol

[Khon Kaen Dave]

Dear OP,as a bar owner in Pattaya for 5 years there is a lot i can advise you about.The places business wise are not too dissimilar, There is a lot you need to know.Too much to put here.If you want to pm me i will be only too glad to help you in the right direction But you must be prepared to read some stuff that you might not be ready for or like.But its the truth.

[1FinickyOne]

I never understand that - I am going into business but not to make money??? Then why bother - going in with that attitude you are most certain to lose...

My suggestion: Go into a bar, one of your friends bars, drink there all night - after 3 days the staff will all love you, give them nice tips and it will feel like your bar... plenty of good feeling.

If you open your own bar, you will probably start losing money, get upset, there will be friction with the staff and an all and all unpleasant experience all for the goal of not making any money...

Where is the fun in working for nothing? Enjoy your money and be a good customer...

[jvs]

Here is a piece of advice,what ever business you want to do make sure it is a townhouse kind of building.

Business downstairs,live upstairs,that way you won't have to pay rent twice.

Starting up a new bar is a lot cheaper then taking over something that is already up and running.I have seen people pay 400 000 baht for an old fridge and a bunch of junk furniture.

Start up a new bar,sell it in high season,that is how you make money!!

Do not drink in your own bar,never.

This way you will make sure you are not your own best customer.

It can be done but be very careful.

[MyFriend You]

Change of plan.

One of my Thai friends who owns a bar in Koh Chang has told me I can buy into partnership with him for 150,000 baht (for refurbishment). He's been running the bar for 15 years but hasn't got that kind of money lying around to refurbish the bar and make the bar better at the moment so that may be why. He's also getting old and would prefer a bit of help running the bar.

I've spoken to my lawyer at AAA Legal Advisors (based in Bangkok and been running for 27 years) and he has said he thinks it's a great idea. Profits will be split 50/50 and the agreement is that if I walk out, I'm not entitled to anything in the bar. Little money lost if anything goes wrong and I can see what it's really like to run a bar and get some experience from it.

So let me understand something. This guy has owned this bar for 15 years and couldn't save 150000 bht. Now you want to join him and you have to split these money. Actually you splitting the money that doesnt exist. Are you thinking straight?

That plan has changed too lol. To be honest, the whole thread is a shambles and my mind is puzzled mate.

• I started reading this thread and am willing to impart my own experience, I owned a bar in Pattaya, back in the seventies - was fairly successful, made 50 times my monthly salary as an Army NCO, owned it for almost six years, then it got too hard to manage - so I sold it for 10 times I paid for it. Let the naysayers throw stones, I don't care.
• Your first plan got many responses with good advice, write the best ones down and stick with them!!!
• Your second plan - FORGET IT. while it may seem the cheaper way to go - Friends don't remain friends long when they go into business together, especially if one or the other needs the money to live on - I will explain my reasons.
• I owned my place for three years alone, solely mine with a lawyer's name as the 51% but he also did business with virtually every American in Pattaya that owned businesses - he was trustworthy. The fourth year I was transferred to Europe, it became harder & harder to pop in to check the books, so I took on a partner, who I had known for five years, he was single at the time, he got married and his wife took over management of the books. The books were just too neat and accurate for me, when you own a business there are going to be some mistakes, broken furniture, pilferage, miscalculations, my deposits into the bank were perfect every time, etc etc etc. so I immediately suspected her cooking the books.
• She wanted a new contact 50/50 split, and a salary, I said no, my contract with him was 75/25 after bills/staff were paid, I had my own cashier, own staff, etc etc He didn't have the authority to fire anyone, he was strictly an investor,and he wanted a place to go after work. Like I said, he was a friend
• One thing led to another, so the beginning of the sixth year I sold the place out from under everyone to a Japanese guy who was buying up everything in Pattaya he could find, hence he gave me 10 times my initial investment, because of the location............with the agreement he would keep the staff on for at least six months . I gave the other guy his 25% and left Thailand. If loos could kill, the stink eye his wife gave me would have dropped me dead in my tracks.

Now, as I said, the Thia man who owns the failing business and offered you a stake for an 'investment' - I wouldn't do it, you are nothing more than a cash cow, there will be many instances of More Money, More Money, More Money - + he can sell it out from under you, at any time, unless you get a contract that he can't sell it without your signature - which is actually worthless in Thailand.

• Stick to your original plan, hire good staff, make them open a Bank account for direct deposit, no cash salary. I opened a group acct in both mine and their names, I deposited money in that acct 50% additional salary to keep them honest, so they wouldn't quit after working a couple months. That bank acct needed mine & my lawyers signature and could not be drawn on but three times a year April, Aug & Dec - the money was split amongst the staff, a running tally was on a board for all to see, it became a game to them.
• Look at the other bars in town, you need to do somthing they don't, and stick with it. My gaff was the Coldest beer you could get, 60's & 70's music, and American Hot Dog's. Every Wednesday night was Chicken Wings night 10 bath apiece ( back then it was 20 baht a $$) - it really packed them in. Maybe install some good Dart Boards, if one hasn't started yet, start a darts league for two, three nights a week.............you want to have somthing the regular customers can look forward too. Everyone has a general menu with all sorts of Fahlung food on it, you need to specialize, Who does;t like a good pizza and a cold beer. They will say - Lets go down to qwertymerks place for a few and a slice.

Enough for me, I'll have another beer and a Slice Thank You,

[khunPer]

Change of plan.

One of my Thai friends who owns a bar in Koh Chang has told me I can buy into partnership with him for 150,000 baht (for refurbishment). He's been running the bar for 15 years but hasn't got that kind of money lying around to refurbish the bar and make the bar better at the moment so that may be why. He's also getting old and would prefer a bit of help running the bar.

I've spoken to my lawyer at AAA Legal Advisors (based in Bangkok and been running for 27 years) and he has said he thinks it's a great idea. Profits will be split 50/50 and the agreement is that if I walk out, I'm not entitled to anything in the bar. Little money lost if anything goes wrong and I can see what it's really like to run a bar and get some experience from it.

In my honest opinion, if someone runs a successful bar-business for 15 years and don't have 150,000 baht, and offers half the business away for that kind of money, then I cannot see that business successful at all. 50% of the profits – after expenses and staff have been paid – may be 50% of noting. Sound more like you are donating 150k baht for new inventory...

I have few successful friends in the bar business, and I've seen many giving up – by the way, the successful ones are all Thais...

[Saan]

Don't worry about all the whinges. If you have the right personality and are a good meeter and greeter you have a chance of making ago of it. A huge amount of running a bar successfully is about your personality.