Exit Strategy from Thailand

[laolover88]

We have, quite reluctantly, decided to leave for a while. As I have written elsewhere we have already sent the children to France. Inconvenient because of schools/education/ cost are hardly the words. We are lucky we could do that.. We thought we would try and "hang on" and see what happens. I am fairly up to the minute through Thai TV/Social Media/Newspapers and magazines. However when my wife who is a deep dyed racist, nationalist Thai (though she is not Thai more Vietnamese and Phu Thai) started to say she was scared at what is happening and might happen and she was far too scared to go to Bangkok that started to put a different perspective on things. We live in a very multicultural/multiracial/multilingual part of Thailand, but also one where Bangkok is not popular and where the memories of the communist insurgency are alive and well. Quite a lot of resentment, too, at rich Bangkok folk buying land.

However it is what she sees as a rising tide of violence linked to drugs and poverty as well as a curious subservience, as she puts it of "free Thais" to yet another strong arm autocracy, that has really swung the balance. The children were very happy to be "packed off". She has lived in Issan all her life, except to go to University in BKK. Her whole extended family is here. It is a real wrench. I am a digital nomad and can live anywhere. She is of the opinion that both I and the children who are luk khreung are in danger from drugs and violence and racism, let alone lamentable education.

I am not going into politics here. But!!. She foresees big trouble.Increasing poverty and debt, increasing violence and "control measures", maybe increased climate and agricultural problems.She thinks the police/military rivalry maybe insoluble and also the royalist/democratic divide She thinks the problem of Islam in France and the UK is by comparison a small problem!

It is a bore. It means closing businesses, shutting up houses, all the palaver of relocation. I have lived here after all for decades. We have looked at Vietnam/Cambodia/The Phllippines/even Malaysia ,China, Indonesia and Singapore but we think we will go to Europe, And sure the countries there have their problems with drugs/unemployment/education but there is an absence of the impression of suppressed violence that prevails here. And the "Nanny "states keep producing legislation and the taxes and employment laws are stifling and we will miss the climate; however no point in being dead because you like the beach or the pool!

Are we paranoid/stupid?

[impulse]

A wise old guy told me years ago: "Look carefully at the people you hang out with, because in 5 years, you'll be right in the middle of their income bracket, their social status, and their lifestyle" He's been right a lot more than he's been wrong.

I don't know that you're paranoid, and I doubt you're stupid. It's easy to get sucked down when the average of your friends and neighbors make a life on 300-500 baht a day.

Most guys I know who enjoy Thailand do so because of the nest egg they saved in the decadent and high cost West. I think the biggest danger for the kids is to end up in a situation that they never have made their nugget, and are consigned to a life at 300-500 baht a day. without ever having the opportunity to sock away enough to enjoy the freedom from scraping by from paycheck to paycheck.

[WishWashMan]

Your wife is wise. Thailand isnt a place to raise children. if they arent Thai of course.

[Lannig]

I am not going into politics here. But!!. She foresees big trouble.Increasing poverty and debt, increasing violence and "control measures", maybe increased climate and agricultural problems.She thinks the police/military rivalry maybe insoluble and also the royalist/democratic divide She thinks the problem of Islam in France and the UK is by comparison a small problem!

I wouldn't call problems with islamists in France "small" but I do agree on most of these grim predictions for Thailand.

I have made the same decision in 2007 (roughly after the coup) and the reasons that made me leave then are even much, much more true today.

Do I regret this decision sometimes? of course I do. Do I still think that it was the wisest thing to do? Yes, I still do.

Giving children a proper education in Thailand costs a lot too. Really a lot. Agree with WishWashMan.

[dddave]

The world is a violent place; nothing new really, it's just that the instantaneous perspective we get from the internet makes it seem closer and more intimate. Look at any newspaper from 30, 50, even 100 years ago and you will see stories of the same random and senseless violence that plagues the world today. You can be in the wrong place at the wrong time anywhere.

Even the most developed nations have daily, deadly attacks at schools and workplaces, sometimes in beautiful places like Colorado and an Idyllic Norwegian island . Governments swing all over the place from year to year in their attitudes to their poorer and disadvantaged citizens. Do you think Europe will be any more tolerant to Thai Immigrants, kids less cruel at school to outsiders? France is a beautiful place but just as the Land of Smiles has rot deep in the core, so do all nations and so does France.

[AlexRich]

I don't think you are paranoid, but it is impossible to predict the future, anywhere. If I had young children I would prefer to educate them in the west, it's not what it used to be but it is better than Thailand from what I have read, unless of course you put them in a decent private school. However, I could put them in better schools in the UK for the same price.

I don't think we can comment on the politics of the country on here, but I get the sense of divides that will be very difficult to reconcile ... the constitution is controversial and might have trouble being voted through.

However, as a foreigner I have no idea what the thoughts are of ordinary Thais. Your wife will have a much better understanding than most people on here. I'm able to leave within 24 hours, I prefer to have that flexibility. If anything does happen in a country better to watch events from the outside. I'll bet there are many Syrians who never imagined that their country could get in such a mess. It can happen anywhere.

Good luck with your move, France is a good place to stay.

[KittenKong]

Your wife is wise. Thailand isnt a place to raise children. if they arent Thai of course.

I wouldn't even raise Thai children here. I can only assume that those who do dont have the means to do so elsewhere.

[SoiBiker]

I'd say you were paranoid, and your wife was pretty smart.

[WhamBam]

Paranoid? No.

I think there are many open minded people who see the violent clips on here and the internet who wonder what is going on. It makes you feel less safe, especially when many of these violent thugs tend not to be jailed or punished sufficiently. That in itself leads to concerns - quite rightly - that you could be one of those on the receiving end (or your family could be) and no-one would step in to help out - especially the police.

In more 'civilised' countries you feel some form of protection from the law, police and also people in general who we believe would not let a woman be attacked by EIGHT men, or a family be hospitalised by another gang of men.

Yet, where I have spent much of my time in recent years, I saw little or no violence. That was in Pattaya - a place where you would be led to believe there is constant violence.

I spent 4 years in Nakhonsawan and I saw more violence there than in any other part of Thailand I have stayed. That violence was always Thai on Thai and nobody ever intervened.

No, violence is not simply a Thai thing, though media would have us beleive differently of late.

Think back to the 60's in the UK. Mods v Rockers. Weekly gang fights. Yet most bystanders were not harmed or involved. So, this is not a modern thing with gangs.

Go to ghettos and inner city areas in the 'civilised' world and you are more likely to see / witness violence.

Look at the USA. Guns, murders, schools under attack. Norway and that horrific attack. There are many more instances.

Yet, most of us do not witness it.

My g/f refuses to go out alone after dark unless she HAS to. She has had several instances where she has been fearful of being attacked / molested. She has been followed about and been approached in a manner that made her seek the company of others to make her feel safer.

My point is - I suppose - that violence CAN happen anywhere. Often it is down to being aware of your surroundings.

[stoneyboy]

The problems in Thailand for people looking to get out usually come about not because they are frightened or scared of the political situation,violence on the streets or numerous other daily problems such as driving conditions that one doesn't often encounter in the west.

They usually look to escape the country for the better of their families and young children,no one does not need to feel paranoid about looking after or wanting a better life for their family.

As stated if you have an endless supply of money and can afford to send your children to top international schools and ensure you have health care and live and work/stay in Thailand legally it offers you a very attractive lifestyle.

If you are on the bones of your arse and have no recourse to decent education,health care and numerous other services coupled with a disliking of the current political situation and behaviour of your hosts why not up sticks and leave.

Remember there are those who don't have the safety net to be able to relocate at the drop of a hat.

Good luck to the OP

I am now back in the UK and believe for my daughter at least it's the best thing we ever did.

Edited April 29, 2016 by stoneyboy

[khunpa]

Based on the fact that you never know what will happen tomorrow, I think you are spending too much time "worrying" about the future.

It is dangerous breathing and anything can happen everywhere in the world.

[roamer]

Maybe you are being far-sighted ? While we can't know what the future holds, the odds do seem to be against Thailand going through it's present stage and emerging as a better place to live and bring up a family. More factions seeking power here than in Game of Thrones.

[rgs2001uk]

Your wife is wise. Thailand isnt a place to raise children. if they arent Thai of course.

I wouldn't even raise Thai children here. I can only assume that those who do dont have the means to do so elsewhere.

Why do you think so many Thais send their kids overseas to be educated?

Why do you think so many Thais living overseas cant understand why I live here?

Why do you think my Thai mrs cant wait to leave here?

[Lannig]

Maybe you are being far-sighted ? While we can't know what the future holds, the odds do seem to be against Thailand going through it's present stage and emerging as a better place to live and bring up a family. More factions seeking power here than in Game of Thrones.

I really can't envision a scenario towards a "better place" as of now. Not for us, for sure.

The country is more deeply divided than ever and the junta is slowly spreading ideas that foreigners are the source for much of Thailand's trouble. When things turn very ugly, and I predict that there's a very high chance for this to happen when all Thais will have lost their only common moral reference, then I wouldn't like to be in Thailand, because angry mobs will seek scapegoats ... have you people seen the movie "No Escape"? Just fiction... but becoming more and more a possible scenario as time passes IMHO.

[Freakin Musashi]

Isn't La Belle France something of a "nanny state" too? Although, I wouldn't mind, that or Japan if I could afford it.

As someone who is contemplating retiring in the LOS, I'm concerned for the future of Thailand. I'd still choose Thailand over Mexico or the P.I. at this point.

[kannot]

"Bangkok Thais buying up land"....ask your Wife who agreed to sell it and who then started increasing the price of that land, I know thru my Wife that many in her family sold their land then blew all the money away..probably the same ones moaning about it.

On the rest though I think you arent paranoid, i cant see it ending well at the moment for Thailand.

If I have to and can Ill jump on a flight outta here and just write everything off if I have to.

Edited April 29, 2016 by kannot

[donnybay]

I would have thought Europe and France is the worst place to be moving to, think dirty bombs, mass killing of civilians, 100's if not thousands of ISIS terrorist's already in place

But don't let me worry you, do what you think is right

[stoneyboy]

I would have thought Europe and France is the worst place to be moving to, think dirty bombs, mass killing of civilians, 100's if not thousands of ISIS terrorist's already in place

But don't let me worry you, do what you think is right

Could you point us all in the direction of these dirty bombs which 1000s of ISIS terrorists are running around with.

I'm intrigued to know,do you work for the CIA or some other well founded intelligence agency or are you reading to many news papers and watching CNN ?

Edited April 29, 2016 by stoneyboy

[JLCrab]

As regards the above and life being a direct consequence of previous choices, almost 30 years ago when I first started working in PRChina I decided that -- whether I married a Chinese or other girl or not -- I did not want to have any LK-type kids. What others do, up-to-them.

Edited April 29, 2016 by JLCrab

[happy Joe]

I would have thought Europe and France is the worst place to be moving to, think dirty bombs, mass killing of civilians, 100's if not thousands of ISIS terrorist's already in place

But don't let me worry you, do what you think is right

Exactly.

Some French suburbs have become Salafis lawlessness areas where police dares not enter. Pervasive violence, much more than in Issan.

Otherwise the children will quickly regret the sweet Thailand when they suffer the ubiquitous bureaucracy in this country. France has become the land of sad faces by a power too strong given to those who want to control and regulate everything.

Police everywhere except where there is danger, exorbitant taxes, the strongest censure than ever, money become rare, mass unemployment, contempt for the elderly, the ubiquitous officials, politicians without honor almost all corrupt, split families..

Welcome to the country, Comrade.

[geronimo]

Well I agree with what you say about Thailand but I feel that France is definitely not the place to be right now. Europe is about to meltdown and the signs are there for all to see. Vietnam would have been a better choice.

[shirtless]

She is wise , lets see what happen if the drought persists farmers will go broke , exports will dive violence will increase, not to mention inbred racism and a waning tourism industry, yep Thailands future is all good if you believe the Government.

[robblok]

She is wise , lets see what happen if the drought persists farmers will go broke , exports will dive violence will increase, not to mention inbred racism and a waning tourism industry, yep Thailands future is all good if you believe the Government.

Yes the sky is falling.. hide run.. hide.. seriously there is still growth in the economy.. a low one but growth.

[jeab1980]

So when you get France and your children and wife are threatened every day by islamists. What then !!! You too much thinking sounds to me. I hope you enjoy new life think you will realise very soon mistake you make.

[SoiBiker]

You can talk yourself into believing the sky is about to fall pretty much anywhere.

[robblok]

You can talk yourself into believing the sky is about to fall pretty much anywhere.

Of course i can put in a story how the UK is going to be a third world country after the brexit. (just writing it does not make it true but I can find plenty of things to support it) I could also do the opposite and say how the brexit is going to be the best thing that ever happened to the UK.

Whatever someone wants to convince himself of it is all possible. Proof is not even needed.. just look at religion.

But the fact is that Thailand its economy is not going down, its still growing.. real slow.. but there is growth.. and even if it goes real bad.. then the exchange rate will help the expats.

If your happy in your life then you think happy thoughts.. if not.. then you think everything is bad and wrong and the Thai are out to get us.

[Orac]

I would have thought Europe and France is the worst place to be moving to, think dirty bombs, mass killing of civilians, 100's if not thousands of ISIS terrorist's already in place

But don't let me worry you, do what you think is right

Thailand managed to kill over 1000 people on its roads this month - if its head count you are looking for ISIS are not even in the same league.

[oxo1947]

“Paranoia is just the bastard child of fear and good sense."

I agree you should leave ------& Soon, don't waste time sitting posting letters to TV, when you could be packing your bags & catching maybe the last chance train out of here to...........???.......................somewhere real safe........???.....................

[impulse]

“Paranoia is just the bastard child of fear and good sense."

I agree you should leave ------& Soon, don't waste time sitting posting letters to TV, when you could be packing your bags & catching maybe the last chance train out of here to...........???.......................somewhere real safe........???

Howza 'bout somewhere the kids will get an education that will prepare them for a career besides pounding sod or bolting on lug nuts for a Japanese car company?

There's something inherently safer about being able to afford 4 wheels, a seat for everyone inside the vehicle (and seat belts), and not having to go to loan sharks because baby needs braces. And that starts with education if you haven't been born to the realm.

Edited April 30, 2016 by impulse

[bermondburi]

For as long as I've known Thailand, there have always been problems of one kind or another. Most of them had no real effects on me.

Even when the reds were burning Bangkok, in nonthaburi you wouldn't have known.

The floods were a pain but not the end of the world.

The tsunami was a disaster of epic proportions. Lucky to survive that one.

Is Thailand in meltdown? Maybe or maybe not. Only time will tell.

I left Thailand for years ago for saudi Arabia for purely financial reasons. Live on an army base here. Me, wife, and kids like it here. Very relaxed. No plans to return till retirement.