Are 'premium' car brands overrated?

[alfalfa19]

Yes. My friend is an expert mechanic, and has been for 35 years. He can repair anything from a go cart to Komatsu heavy equipment. He says that my Honda sedan is a better car than the Mercedes which a mutual friend drives, which cost 3 times as much as my car. He is taking into account reliability, maintenance costs, repairs needed, and resale value. But, our mutual friend feels the need to impress people. I do not.

[frankphuket]

Why is this even a topic? To start with all is very relative. For someone 1m Baht car is just about the budget they can afford, for some it is 2m and for some it is 20m Baht. Overall most Japanese and German cars are good cars, no doubt, but they are differences in what each car is designed for. A new Honda Accord surely drives more comfortable than a new Mini....but does that mean that everyone wants comfort...I guess not. There are people who just like comfy cars, some like just practical cars or a combination of both and some like driver oriented cars with which you can have a little 'fun' with, good handling, powerful cars. There at least in Thailand unfortunatley till only very recently the Japanese cars have kind of had a bit of a "dormant' stand. Same engines forever, nothing turbo charged, supercharged, remotely fun to drive, etc...I would still argue that a BMW 3er is a nicer handling and more fun car to drive than a Accord...but then again it is also more fun to drive than a 7 series...so really can't compare.

In the mid segment with new Accords and Teanas however I do admit they come closer and closer to the Mid class segment in terms of comfort to a basic 5 series or E class.

But if you have the cash why go with the Samsung if you want the IPhone 6s? Same token, if you can afford you probably want the Best and not the closest to it....and or at least what you think is Best and what suits you Best. It is a very personal thing

[trawler]

Won't argue on the merits of cost however notice that not much mention of safety has been in the various posts.The amount of safety gear in a Thailand produced car is a lot less than in the same car produced for different markets/countries.That would be one of the reasons for buying a imported car rather than a locally produced one.The Thai market cars seem to have the lowest level of safety gear(airbags/sips etc etc) fitted except for the 'Premium' cars that are usually not built in Thailand and either come in fully assembled or as kits.

[ExpatOilWorker]

Yes. My friend is an expert mechanic, and has been for 35 years. He can repair anything from a go cart to Komatsu heavy equipment. He says that my Honda sedan is a better car than the Mercedes which a mutual friend drives, which cost 3 times as much as my car. He is taking into account reliability, maintenance costs, repairs needed, and resale value. But, our mutual friend feels the need to impress people. I do not.

For other people comfort, handling, safety and the feel of quality are more important and here the Bimmer/Merc win hands down over your Honda.

[keemapoot]

A pickup trucks ride is more comfortable than a bmw 3 series? or did your son mean the space is cramp that it is why its uncomfortable?

I personally don't think premium car brands are overated, there are more safety features, gadgets, and luxury touch to it. But a lot of it is up to owners preference as well. Having own both a 3 Series and Accord. Even though I like how 3 series drive and more premium touch, I still prefer my accord. Why? simply because the space it offers, it doesn't drive as well and such, but it doesn't bother me that much, you get use to the way a car drives. What matters more to me is the comfort and not feeling cramped.

What does a 3 series BMW have that a Honda Accord doesn't......??.

easier to list that do not have - compare with Inspire.

If with 3 series list be so long

main is:

handling

acceleration

individual spec.

quality interier

There's one thing the Accord has that a 3-series doesn't.

Active noise cancellation.

Because Honda still haven't figured out how to make a car that's inherently quiet

Do you know if the new Civic sold in Thailand has that active noise cancellation, and if so, how does it compare to the Accord? Are you aware of any comparisons done on cabin noise of models sold here? I am thinking of buying the 1.5 Civic for a family member, but yeah, that Honda cabin noise is legendary. I do really like Hondas though.

[IMHO]

Won't argue on the merits of cost however notice that not much mention of safety has been in the various posts.The amount of safety gear in a Thailand produced car is a lot less than in the same car produced for different markets/countries.That would be one of the reasons for buying a imported car rather than a locally produced one.The Thai market cars seem to have the lowest level of safety gear(airbags/sips etc etc) fitted except for the 'Premium' cars that are usually not built in Thailand and either come in fully assembled or as kits.

That's a basic rule of thumb, yes, but not strictly true.

There are some Thai-made models that come with the same safety spec as Western markets, albeit usually only in the top-spec, e.g.

Toyota Camry

Mazda CX-3

Ford Focus, Ranger and Everest

[IMHO]

Do you know if the new Civic sold in Thailand has that active noise cancellation, and if so, how does it compare to the Accord? Are you aware of any comparisons done on cabin noise of models sold here? I am thinking of buying the 1.5 Civic for a family member, but yeah, that Honda cabin noise is legendary. I do really like Hondas though.

AFAIK, the only Thai made cars with active noise cancellation are the Honda Accord and Ford Everest.

[Dagnabbit]

Yes. My friend is an expert mechanic, and has been for 35 years. He can repair anything from a go cart to Komatsu heavy equipment. He says that my Honda sedan is a better car than the Mercedes which a mutual friend drives, which cost 3 times as much as my car. He is taking into account reliability, maintenance costs, repairs needed, and resale value. But, our mutual friend feels the need to impress people. I do not.

You Honda sedan is most likely more reliable and a better car in some respects than a Lamborghini. I am sure your Honda has more luggage space and better fuel economy than a Lamborghini for example. But this does not mean all Lamborghini owners should switch to Honda's.

The most reliable cars are the small and simple ones without much kit in them. When you get up to a decent spec Benz/Mercedes there is simply a lot more technology and many more components. So of course a car with more components has more things to go wrong.

Is there some reason you want to convince yourself and others that your car is better than a Mercedes? And why is Mercedes the benchmark? Why are you aspiring to have a car as good as a Mercedes?

Better off just to buy the damn Benz instead of buying a Honda and trying to convince yourself it's as good as a Benz.

[Zendo]

Anyway, If someone is really a car enthousiat and not looking to impress other, he needs something that drives good and that you feel synchro with your needs and wishes.

I don't know about the civic Honda, but I tried other new hondas vehicules and I have to say that is not what I like at all.. i never tried CVT before : I have to say that is a punishment to drive !

Are Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Volvo,etc... coming with manual gear in Thailand ? Or maybe descent auto transmisson that can respond for real to the driver's need. (I tryed the Mazda CX-5 here and the transmission is acceptable, but the manual version is way more better (considering EU tests and reviews) but unfortunatly not available in Thailand, because people don't care about responsiveness and just want to go from point A to point B without considering driving pleasure maybe.)

[8OA8]

It annoys the hell out of BMW and Merc owners when you suggest they're driving a german taxi.

When you can end up sitting in the back of one for up to 8hrs a day, it's comfortable and comforting to know these are the cars of choice for using as a taxi.

Now if you are just having a short ride around the city in the back seat, it's not going to make too much difference to your back, but you will definitely feel the difference on a long drive.

[overherebc]

A pickup trucks ride is more comfortable than a bmw 3 series? or did your son mean the space is cramp that it is why its uncomfortable?

I personally don't think premium car brands are overated, there are more safety features, gadgets, and luxury touch to it. But a lot of it is up to owners preference as well. Having own both a 3 Series and Accord. Even though I like how 3 series drive and more premium touch, I still prefer my accord. Why? simply because the space it offers, it doesn't drive as well and such, but it doesn't bother me that much, you get use to the way a car drives. What matters more to me is the comfort and not feeling cramped.

What does a 3 series BMW have that a Honda Accord doesn't......??.

easier to list that do not have - compare with Inspire.

If with 3 series list be so long

main is:

handling

acceleration

individual spec.

quality interier

My idea of a quality interior.

[Zendo]

It annoys the hell out of BMW and Merc owners when you suggest they're driving a german taxi.

When you can end up sitting in the back of one for up to 8hrs a day, it's comfortable and comforting to know these are the cars of choice for using as a taxi.

Now if you are just having a short ride around the city in the back seat, it's not going to make too much difference to your back, but you will definitely feel the difference on a long drive.

The point of this quote is not to say it's good or not.. it's just meant to hurt BMW and Mercs owners EGO that usually buy them to SHOW OFF

Bigger, better, faster, more expensive .. but Hey !? it's a taxi car.. such a looser choice ^^ isn't it ?!

[LivinLOS]

i had a few beemas in the 80s and 90s all new...and I think they are an acquired taste....they are very Germanic - firm ergonomic seating and firm suspension etc...I really never got to like them.......

Very true.. I am a beemer guy, or at least was in my 20s... M5, 850CSi, etc.. They are drivers cars generally, are set up that way more than average.. Now in my middle age I would probably lean a bit more Merc..

however it always makes me laugh when people call them "premium" vehicles, because in Europe they really aren't....it is countries that pay the import duties that get only the top line models, as the "standard" versions are not worth importing.

This also.. Your average low end 3 series is a basic entry sales reps car.. Sure a 330 ci with M sport setup is a bit more drivers but this is only a step up from a honda civic in the real world.

If you really want to get a good idea of what BMWs and the like are really thought of, look at th second-hand prices in Germany and UK - these cars are worth NOTHING....they are expensive to maintain and repair and are consequently expensive to insure.....premium is not the word...the only people they impress then are drug dealers and rapper wannabees

As I am going back to the UK for the summer to set up some biz I need a car.. This is in my watch account...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201570064461?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

5l V8 AMG.. not even 200k baht.. You could get a tatty one for 100k or so thb.. Here how many million ??

As for only drug dealers and wannabe rappers.. I beg to differ.. Nice smooth engines, loads of pull, great on the highway.. Only problem is uk cameras everywhere, I may go boring and get the diesel AMG

[Zendo]

To come back to the topic.. there was maybe a time where BMW, Merc, Audi and Volvo where such premium quality cars.. but today it's just cars, normal cars made like others, not better at all but you still pay for the brand name.

Now it's the same with everything that people buy, each brand has is own reputation and trust from the customers, even if it doesn't fit with reality, for example why people buy ice creams (haagen dazs) that cost way more than others, because of packaging and dream images that come in the mind of consumer.. but at the end it's just an ice cream full of AIR inside ^without any premium raw materials involved in.. just basic acceptable quality, so smart people are usually not abused in marketing tricks, but when ego wants to show off, it means no compromise on prices ^^

On my experience, i don't like German cars, way too firm : I prefer much more somthing like a Citroen for the comfort of the seats, suspension and quality interior feeling. If you are lucky enough to try a DS3 or DS5 one day, then you can compare with german style, and Comfort is rising to a real superior level, IMHO.

[Dagnabbit]

It annoys the hell out of BMW and Merc owners when you suggest they're driving a german taxi.

When you can end up sitting in the back of one for up to 8hrs a day, it's comfortable and comforting to know these are the cars of choice for using as a taxi.

Now if you are just having a short ride around the city in the back seat, it's not going to make too much difference to your back, but you will definitely feel the difference on a long drive.

The point of this quote is not to say it's good or not.. it's just meant to hurt BMW and Mercs owners EGO that usually buy them to SHOW OFF

Bigger, better, faster, more expensive .. but Hey !? it's a taxi car.. such a looser choice ^^ isn't it ?!

It could equally be argued that the quote is really a attempt by people that cannot afford BMW and Mercs to try to bait those that can.

Jealous people will often to try to find fault with a person that owns something they desire. It makes them feel better about not having it. You know - "well they may have the Benz but I'm a better person".

It's not very subtle.

[Dagnabbit]

Anyway, If someone is really a car enthousiat and not looking to impress other, he needs something that drives good and that you feel synchro with your needs and wishes.

I don't know about the civic Honda, but I tried other new hondas vehicules and I have to say that is not what I like at all.. i never tried CVT before : I have to say that is a punishment to drive !

Are Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Volvo,etc... coming with manual gear in Thailand ? Or maybe descent auto transmisson that can respond for real to the driver's need. (I tryed the Mazda CX-5 here and the transmission is acceptable, but the manual version is way more better (considering EU tests and reviews) but unfortunatly not available in Thailand, because people don't care about responsiveness and just want to go from point A to point B without considering driving pleasure maybe.)

Most BMs come with an 8 speed auto with various performance settings and the ability to switch to manual gear changes.

Still - not something you are going to use much of the time - the sport mode is fairly punchy.

[Zendo]

Anyway, If someone is really a car enthousiat and not looking to impress other, he needs something that drives good and that you feel synchro with your needs and wishes.

I don't know about the civic Honda, but I tried other new hondas vehicules and I have to say that is not what I like at all.. i never tried CVT before : I have to say that is a punishment to drive !

Are Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Volvo,etc... coming with manual gear in Thailand ? Or maybe descent auto transmisson that can respond for real to the driver's need. (I tryed the Mazda CX-5 here and the transmission is acceptable, but the manual version is way more better (considering EU tests and reviews) but unfortunatly not available in Thailand, because people don't care about responsiveness and just want to go from point A to point B without considering driving pleasure maybe.)

Most BMs come with an 8 speed auto with various performance settings and the ability to switch to manual gear changes.

Still - not something you are going to use much of the time - the sport mode is fairly punchy.

SO no manual gears in BM here... crazy shit ^^ In France if a car maker is selling only auto transmission. He just can say bye bye to the market, 22 models of BMW are available in manual gear box in EU and 40 models comes with autos, so only 18 models are automatic transmission only in EU.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Zendo

[recycler]

Many Thais are so eager to be seen in a BMW or Mercedes that they are prepared to pay twice the price and the distributors are very happy to provide them with this sense of status....

Just an example, the Mazda CX5 2.2 diesel assembled in Malaysia is 1.690.000 Baht, the BMW X1 1.8 diesel assembled in Thailand is 2.599.000 Baht. I Europe the Mazda is about the same price as here and the BMW is cheaper than the Mazda.

Apparently Mazda is not the brand to be seen in...

[Zendo]

You are totally Right !!

It seems that Mazda doesn't please DELETED you can't see much here, but they look real good, unfortunatly they always comes here with auto transmission for thai drivers..... grrrrrr !!

Edited May 2, 2016 by seedy
language

[Kwasaki]

If I had the dosh I would buy a Merc....

Not the slightest bit interested in a BMW........

I'd buy a Jag.

[Zendo]

If I had the dosh I would buy a Merc....

Not the slightest bit interested in a BMW........

I'd buy a Jag.

I'd buy a Rolls Royce Phantom

+ a driver when tired, bored or lazy

Edited May 2, 2016 by Zendo

[Dagnabbit]

Many Thais are so eager to be seen in a BMW or Mercedes that they are prepared to pay twice the price and the distributors are very happy to provide them with this sense of status....

Just an example, the Mazda CX5 2.2 diesel assembled in Malaysia is 1.690.000 Baht, the BMW X1 1.8 diesel assembled in Thailand is 2.599.000 Baht. I Europe the Mazda is about the same price as here and the BMW is cheaper than the Mazda.

Apparently Mazda is not the brand to be seen in...

This is one opinion.

Another is that there are plenty of people here with lots of $$$, to whom many cars are affordable. They simply biy what they like.

Everyone claims to know what is in the head of people buying these cars.

In my case 1 months earnings = Camry/ accord. 3 months earnings 528i. Either way it wasnt a major financial decision. I test drove accord, camry, e200, cla250, x3 but chose the 5 because it was the one i liked best.

Now according to some that makes me egotistical DELETED show off that only purchased a vehicle because of what other people would think.

Now considering the fact that everyone thinks BMW divers are douchebags, surely if I cared what people thought, it'd be the last car I'd buy....

Edited May 2, 2016 by seedy
language

[Don Mega]

To come back to the topic.. there was maybe a time where BMW, Merc, Audi and Volvo where such premium quality cars.. but today it's just cars, normal cars made like others, not better at all but you still pay for the brand name.

Now it's the same with everything that people buy, each brand has is own reputation and trust from the customers, even if it doesn't fit with reality, for example why people buy ice creams (haagen dazs) that cost way more than others, because of packaging and dream images that come in the mind of consumer.. but at the end it's just an ice cream full of AIR inside ^without any premium raw materials involved in.. just basic acceptable quality, so smart people are usually not abused in marketing tricks, but when ego wants to show off, it means no compromise on prices ^^

On my experience, i don't like German cars, way too firm : I prefer much more somthing like a Citroen for the comfort of the seats, suspension and quality interior feeling. If you are lucky enough to try a DS3 or DS5 one day, then you can compare with german style, and Comfort is rising to a real superior level, IMHO.

BMW/Merc/Audi/Volvo etc are nothing more than the bread and butter mass produced appliances for Europe much like GM/Ford/Chrysler is for the USA.

[richard_smith237]

IMO - NO... they are most definitely not over rated. But, YES, in Thailand they are heavily over priced / taxed.

I drove a Camry the other day, I wasn't very impressed, compared to my F10 BMW 528i M-Sport the Camry was, well, sort of nothing...

For a week I swapped my BMW F10 528 with my friends Merc ML250 last year - the Merc was solid and lovely inside, but felt a little too mature.

I now have an BMW F15 X5 (needed more space) - The interior is excellent, ride is slightly hard (normal for BMW's) - This car has really grown on me.

Key for me is safety and space - I like the new Volvo XC90 but it wasn't released in Thailand when I bought the X5.

Do I think my BMW's or my Friends Merc are over rated - No - they are very accomplished vehicles.

Is the X5 or ML250 worth 3x an Everest. No - I very much doubt that.

IF I am to compare like for like - I'd Compare the following (in order of preference and desirability), value for money is something wholly individual when it comes to cars.

- Pajero Sport

- Fortuner

- X-Trail

- Ford Everest

- Landrover Discovery

- Volvo XC90

- Merc ML250

- BMW X5

- Range Rover

If I was to make my decision today I'd probably choose the Everest (but that wasn't around last year).

[Zendo]

To come back to the topic.. there was maybe a time where BMW, Merc, Audi and Volvo where such premium quality cars.. but today it's just cars, normal cars made like others, not better at all but you still pay for the brand name.

Now it's the same with everything that people buy, each brand has is own reputation and trust from the customers, even if it doesn't fit with reality, for example why people buy ice creams (haagen dazs) that cost way more than others, because of packaging and dream images that come in the mind of consumer.. but at the end it's just an ice cream full of AIR inside ^without any premium raw materials involved in.. just basic acceptable quality, so smart people are usually not abused in marketing tricks, but when ego wants to show off, it means no compromise on prices ^^

On my experience, i don't like German cars, way too firm : I prefer much more somthing like a Citroen for the comfort of the seats, suspension and quality interior feeling. If you are lucky enough to try a DS3 or DS5 one day, then you can compare with german style, and Comfort is rising to a real superior level, IMHO.

BMW/Merc/Audi/Volvo etc are nothing more than the bread and butter mass produced appliances for Europe much like GM/Ford/Chrysler is for the USA.

This is not true.. in EUROPE in 2014 here is the list of most sold cars :

1. Volkswagen Golf : 520.958 unités

2. Ford Fiesta : 308.999 unités

3. Renault Clio : 300.924 unités

4. Volkswagen Polo : 280.378 unités

5. Opel / Vauxhall Corsa : 252.420 unités

6. Ford Focus : 222.834 unités

7. Peugeot 208 : 215.312 unités

8. Skoda Octavia : 206.362 unités

9. Nissan Qashqai : 204.200 unités

10. Audi A3 : 200.157 unités

source : http://news.autoplus.fr/news/1491402/Ventes-Production-Top-10-2014-Hausse

You can see audi A3 only in the brand we quoted.

the others "Premium" brands are sold in way more less scale than this "bread and butter mass produced appliances for Europe" as you said.

[Zendo]

Everyone claims to know what is in the head of people buying these cars.

In my case 1 months earnings = Camry/ accord. 3 months earnings 528i. Either way it wasnt a major financial decision. I test drove accord, camry, e200, cla250, x3 but chose the 5 because it was the one i liked best.

Now according to some that makes me egotistical, douchebag show off that only purchased a vehicle because of what other people would think.

Now considering the fact that everyone thinks BMW divers are douchebags, surely if I cared what people thought, it'd be the last car I'd buy....

If in one month earning you can by a camry.. why don't you buy a plane instead ? it is much more convenient that all cars you can buy in the world.. otherwise why not have a luxury van plus drivers.. or a bus modified for yourself.. and if you like to drive yourself then by a race car and enjoy !

IF you are not aware, most of people are buying car with a credit that last 4 to 7 years... and this kind of income you are talking about is for very less people on earth, so if i had money like that I'll go for a Porsche cayenne and many others cars.. just collect them all like my son do with pokemons.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Zendo

[ardokano]

In the mid segment with new Accords and Teanas however I do admit they come closer and closer to the Mid class segment in terms of comfort to a basic 5 series or E class.

Accord its C class and 3 series.

And not have any closer.. But what you pay that you get..

Some model accord nice car..

Why i say some model.. becouse Accord for different marcket some generation even DIFFERENT CAR!!!

[Guitar God]

I owned a couple Porsches a while back and I've had Mercedes since 1998 but I never cared for BMWs. They always felt small, hard on the inside and uncomfortable. They are responsive and you have good road feedback but they're not fun as a daily driver, and they're an aquired taste.

My Mercedes on the other hand feels solid and comfortable and I miss it when I'm in Thailand or driving a rental. I have regular service and never have breakdowns or need to bring it in between regular maintenance. I can't say that for new cars I've bought in Thailand.

They the use them as taxis in Europe because they're one of the few dependable cars big enough to transport 4 passengers and their luggage. Mine's a 400hp AMG and doesn't feel like a taxi one bit.

[JaseTheBass]

It annoys the hell out of BMW and Merc owners when you suggest they're driving a german taxi.

When you can end up sitting in the back of one for up to 8hrs a day, it's comfortable and comforting to know these are the cars of choice for using as a taxi.

Now if you are just having a short ride around the city in the back seat, it's not going to make too much difference to your back, but you will definitely feel the difference on a long drive.

You're obviously not including a 3 Series in this...

[DrTuner]

Anything premium is overrated. It's the job of the premium salesmen to make it so.