Gen Prawit hints at curbs on UDD’s anti-cheating centres

[aussieinthailand]

UUD will have no access to monitor anything so this is complete nonsense

What they might be able to do is intimidate people into voting a certain way

At the end of the day they have no right mandate or authority to do anything except spew out garbage under the payroll and direction of their convicted criminal master

someone should shut them up once and for all, they are an unelected unwanted or needed disruptive divisive element in Thai society

If that is indeed the opinion of Thai society, why any need for panic if nobody is interested in them? Why should they forcibly be silenced? Why not just let them piss in the wind and then fade away, unnoticed and uncared about?

Surely that would be a feather in the cap of the current democracy enablers, to shrug and simply let them get on with it as they are a busted flush anyway?

they have guns bombs and grenades and have used them on a regular basis, democracy UUD style

"they have guns bombs and grenades and used them on a regular basis, democracy UDD style".

Now if you replaced the UDD and inserted Junta and yellow shirts then your comment would be just as accurate, but you choose to only accuse (the reds/UDD) of this when there is plenty of video evidence out there that the military and yellow supporter's are quite ready and do in fact use guns bombs and grenades on people.

[smutcakes]

Does anyone actually believe the outcome will be different from what the military wants it to be? To many eyes......not easy to ensure the correct result

Misdirection, that's what they want you to think, that it's complicated. xyz million ballot papers, xyz different voting locations, xyz different counting stations, xyz staff doing the counting. If there is fraud, it will be in the downstream places, where there is less complexity.

They want you to concentrate on the electorate and the process of ticking in the boxes because that's where the head-spinning numbers are.

What they don't want you to concentrate on is what happens to the the voting machines or what happens downstream from the counting rooms. There are various possibilities, would be easier to spot the weak spots with a process map.

That's why they don't want observers, they don't care about the voting stations, little chance for widespread falsification there that won't eventually come out, but they don't want observers at the points where small groups of people summarise the counted votes. They can't pick and choose where and what the foreign observers observe, so they ban them outright. The only reason for banning foreign observers is that they know what's going to happen.

W

Although stated as fact and true, it's actually only your subjective opinion. And that of a few other posters here of course.

My opinion is that foreign observers don't see the wheeling and dealing before the referendum, neither do they understand the threat of having a violent organisation which is against the charter close by and intimidating in their presence. There are still 'red village' were everyone is a red shirt as declared by the UDD. Free choice, my foot.

Rubl. whilst you are probably right about observers not seeing or understanding the finer nuances of politics in Thailand, or perhaps any country they observe, they are not complete and utter morons not to anticpate or ackowledge that this would be the case, and make allowances in their reporting for these issues. I am sure most international organizations have full time persons monitering the situations on the ground even outside of election/referendum time. Given the military's propensity for Coups in Thailand, i presume the country is very well known to them.

In addition, every single point you are trying to make can be said exactly the same for opposition parties in various other parts of the country, BJT party in Buriram, DEM in the southern provinces. In fact nearly every country in the World has strong holds of various parties, Labor in the old mining areas of the UK, Tory in the sunny suburbs of the southern counties.

Surely this type of situation is normal, the only subjective part is how much people are directly influenced in the various areas- in my opinion there is no distinct difference between political thugs the country over, so i dont see why there would be any difference in voter cohersion or influencing anywhere in the country.

The simple fact is that the 'Red" areas of the country are far more populous than the others, and as such they win elections.

[SABloke]

.... someone should shut them up once and for all, they are an unelected unwanted or needed disruptive divisive element in Thai society

Well actually they were elected. Military stood by while your/their friends in yellow brought the city to a halt. When the temperature was hot enough the military removed the elected government on behalf of royals and yellow-shirts.

The UDD has never been a political party, let alone elected into office

[smutcakes]

Prayuth says it;s OK, Prawit says it isn't OK.

Kind of makes one wonder who's running the country doesn't it?

The dumpy general or the grumpy general.

Not for the first time. You'd think that the army would teach officers how to get their story straight, but apparently not.

Winnie

Its not even a question and has not been from day 1.

Prawit and those behind him have been behind this all along, much the same as previous coups.

They just needed someone to front up and take the heat on a daily basis allowing them more time to meddle behind the scenes.

IMO Prawit is absolutely desperate to be PM- when all the criticsing about politicans goes on, they seem to have selective amnesia that Prawit was Minister of Defence in the DEM/BJT Government, incidentally one he was probably deeply involved in putting together.

[bobmac10]

the top cheaters of all times want to open anti-cheating centers

Please explain your post Swetatalot?

How is not allowing foreign observers in to witness the election a Good Thing?

What actual proof do you have that the UDD "cheated" at elections?

No, I didn't think you could actually present any facts.

Just more apologies for the Junta.

[rubl]

Does anyone actually believe the outcome will be different from what the military wants it to be? To many eyes......not easy to ensure the correct result

Misdirection, that's what they want you to think, that it's complicated. xyz million ballot papers, xyz different voting locations, xyz different counting stations, xyz staff doing the counting. If there is fraud, it will be in the downstream places, where there is less complexity.

They want you to concentrate on the electorate and the process of ticking in the boxes because that's where the head-spinning numbers are.

What they don't want you to concentrate on is what happens to the the voting machines or what happens downstream from the counting rooms. There are various possibilities, would be easier to spot the weak spots with a process map.

That's why they don't want observers, they don't care about the voting stations, little chance for widespread falsification there that won't eventually come out, but they don't want observers at the points where small groups of people summarise the counted votes. They can't pick and choose where and what the foreign observers observe, so they ban them outright. The only reason for banning foreign observers is that they know what's going to happen.

W

Although stated as fact and true, it's actually only your subjective opinion. And that of a few other posters here of course.

My opinion is that foreign observers don't see the wheeling and dealing before the referendum, neither do they understand the threat of having a violent organisation which is against the charter close by and intimidating in their presence. There are still 'red village' were everyone is a red shirt as declared by the UDD. Free choice, my foot.

Rubl. whilst you are probably right about observers not seeing or understanding the finer nuances of politics in Thailand, or perhaps any country they observe, they are not complete and utter morons not to anticpate or ackowledge that this would be the case, and make allowances in their reporting for these issues. I am sure most international organizations have full time persons monitering the situations on the ground even outside of election/referendum time. Given the military's propensity for Coups in Thailand, i presume the country is very well known to them.

In addition, every single point you are trying to make can be said exactly the same for opposition parties in various other parts of the country, BJT party in Buriram, DEM in the southern provinces. In fact nearly every country in the World has strong holds of various parties, Labor in the old mining areas of the UK, Tory in the sunny suburbs of the southern counties.

Surely this type of situation is normal, the only subjective part is how much people are directly influenced in the various areas- in my opinion there is no distinct difference between political thugs the country over, so i dont see why there would be any difference in voter cohersion or influencing anywhere in the country.

The simple fact is that the 'Red" areas of the country are far more populous than the others, and as such they win elections.

What you are saying is that for some it's much more interesting to buy the 'red' areas as they are more populous and better able to deliver the 'election victory' required for a Shinawatra controlled business called Thailand. Just what was done in 2001.

You also seem to indicate such control is normal in Democracies. Interesting.

Anyway, none of this gives any reason why either foreign or UDD observers should be allowed. Actually it gives good reasons why they should be kept away.

[rubl]

Prayuth says it;s OK, Prawit says it isn't OK.

Kind of makes one wonder who's running the country doesn't it?

The dumpy general or the grumpy general.

Not for the first time. You'd think that the army would teach officers how to get their story straight, but apparently not.

Winnie

Its not even a question and has not been from day 1.

Prawit and those behind him have been behind this all along, much the same as previous coups.

They just needed someone to front up and take the heat on a daily basis allowing them more time to meddle behind the scenes.

IMO Prawit is absolutely desperate to be PM- when all the criticsing about politicans goes on, they seem to have selective amnesia that Prawit was Minister of Defence in the DEM/BJT Government, incidentally one he was probably deeply involved in putting together.

and the selective amnesia also seems to cover Gen Sonthi turned respectable politician who as MP joined the previous government and voted for his own amnesty to make double sure.

IMHO, PM Prayut would rather step down as PM as surely he seem to have aged tremendously from all the attacks he had to endure.

[smutcakes]

Prayuth says it;s OK, Prawit says it isn't OK.

Kind of makes one wonder who's running the country doesn't it?

The dumpy general or the grumpy general.

Not for the first time. You'd think that the army would teach officers how to get their story straight, but apparently not.

Winnie

Its not even a question and has not been from day 1.

Prawit and those behind him have been behind this all along, much the same as previous coups.

They just needed someone to front up and take the heat on a daily basis allowing them more time to meddle behind the scenes.

IMO Prawit is absolutely desperate to be PM- when all the criticsing about politicans goes on, they seem to have selective amnesia that Prawit was Minister of Defence in the DEM/BJT Government, incidentally one he was probably deeply involved in putting together.

and the selective amnesia also seems to cover Gen Sonthi turned respectable politician who as MP joined the previous government and voted for his own amnesty to make double sure.

IMHO, PM Prayut would rather step down as PM as surely he seem to have aged tremendously from all the attacks he had to endure.

I have absolutely zero idea what your post has to do with my post or the topic? or what point you are making, or even if you have a point.

[MZurf]

Prayuth says it;s OK, Prawit says it isn't OK.

Kind of makes one wonder who's running the country doesn't it?

The dumpy general or the grumpy general.

Not for the first time. You'd think that the army would teach officers how to get their story straight, but apparently not.

Winnie

Its not even a question and has not been from day 1.

Prawit and those behind him have been behind this all along, much the same as previous coups.

They just needed someone to front up and take the heat on a daily basis allowing them more time to meddle behind the scenes.

IMO Prawit is absolutely desperate to be PM- when all the criticsing about politicans goes on, they seem to have selective amnesia that Prawit was Minister of Defence in the DEM/BJT Government, incidentally one he was probably deeply involved in putting together.

and the selective amnesia also seems to cover Gen Sonthi turned respectable politician who as MP joined the previous government and voted for his own amnesty to make double sure.

IMHO, PM Prayut would rather step down as PM as surely he seem to have aged tremendously from all the attacks he had to endure.

"IMHO, PM Prayut would rather step down as PM as surely he seem to have aged tremendously from all the attacks he had to endure. "

Yes, I feel SO sorry for him. Of course, when every form of criticism is reacted to with the temperament of a petulant 5 year old I can see why it's aging him.

[Srikcir]

UUD will have no access to monitor anything so this is complete nonsense

What they might be able to do is intimidate people into voting a certain way

At the end of the day they have no right mandate or authority to do anything except spew out garbage under the payroll and direction of their convicted criminal master

someone should shut them up once and for all, they are an unelected unwanted or needed disruptive divisive element in Thai society

How quickly memories fade:

BANGKOK, 25 May 2016 (NNT) - The Election Commission of Thailand (EC) has expressed its support for the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) for wanting to set up a watchdog unit during voting in the referendum on the draft charter.

Election Commissioner Somchai Srisuthiyakorn said it was a positive move for the UDD to support a fair referendum. He added that other political groups can volunteer as referendum watchdogs, provided that they do not campaign against the draft charter.

The EC is not an elected body. Neither is Meechai and Prawit, both of whom seem to take every effort to confine the EC to the Junta's agenda rather than allow it to act with the authority supposedly granted to it by the NCPO as an Independent Organization under the Interim and Provisional Charters.

[MZurf]

Misdirection, that's what they want you to think, that it's complicated. xyz million ballot papers, xyz different voting locations, xyz different counting stations, xyz staff doing the counting. If there is fraud, it will be in the downstream places, where there is less complexity.

They want you to concentrate on the electorate and the process of ticking in the boxes because that's where the head-spinning numbers are.

What they don't want you to concentrate on is what happens to the the voting machines or what happens downstream from the counting rooms. There are various possibilities, would be easier to spot the weak spots with a process map.

That's why they don't want observers, they don't care about the voting stations, little chance for widespread falsification there that won't eventually come out, but they don't want observers at the points where small groups of people summarise the counted votes. They can't pick and choose where and what the foreign observers observe, so they ban them outright. The only reason for banning foreign observers is that they know what's going to happen.

W

Although stated as fact and true, it's actually only your subjective opinion. And that of a few other posters here of course.

My opinion is that foreign observers don't see the wheeling and dealing before the referendum, neither do they understand the threat of having a violent organisation which is against the charter close by and intimidating in their presence. There are still 'red village' were everyone is a red shirt as declared by the UDD. Free choice, my foot.

Rubl. whilst you are probably right about observers not seeing or understanding the finer nuances of politics in Thailand, or perhaps any country they observe, they are not complete and utter morons not to anticpate or ackowledge that this would be the case, and make allowances in their reporting for these issues. I am sure most international organizations have full time persons monitering the situations on the ground even outside of election/referendum time. Given the military's propensity for Coups in Thailand, i presume the country is very well known to them.

In addition, every single point you are trying to make can be said exactly the same for opposition parties in various other parts of the country, BJT party in Buriram, DEM in the southern provinces. In fact nearly every country in the World has strong holds of various parties, Labor in the old mining areas of the UK, Tory in the sunny suburbs of the southern counties.

Surely this type of situation is normal, the only subjective part is how much people are directly influenced in the various areas- in my opinion there is no distinct difference between political thugs the country over, so i dont see why there would be any difference in voter cohersion or influencing anywhere in the country.

The simple fact is that the 'Red" areas of the country are far more populous than the others, and as such they win elections.

What you are saying is that for some it's much more interesting to buy the 'red' areas as they are more populous and better able to deliver the 'election victory' required for a Shinawatra controlled business called Thailand. Just what was done in 2001.

You also seem to indicate such control is normal in Democracies. Interesting.

Anyway, none of this gives any reason why either foreign or UDD observers should be allowed. Actually it gives good reasons why they should be kept away.

"Anyway, none of this gives any reason why either foreign or UDD observers should be allowed. Actually it gives good reasons why they should be kept away."

Absolutely nothing gives any reason why foreign observers should be barred from observing the referendum. There is absolutely no downside unless the junta plans to rig it and a huge upside in international credibility (which this junta desperately needs) if it doesn't.

Given their refusal to allow observers I guess it's the former.

[robblok]

Can one of the junta supporters please step in and explain why banning foreign observers is a good thing?

Not expecting an answer of course, but miracles do sometime happen...

Its a great thing, but no Thai government has ever allowed this before. Even when the democrats wanted them the PTP /TRT did not. So its not a junta thing its a Thai thing.

Its a big loss of face when you allow foreign observers, that is one of the reasons why not.

Id say allow foreign observers but then allow them always also when other Thai governments are in place. Not selective. I wonder what the observers would have said when Democrats could not go in the campaign red lands without fear of their life.

Anyway.. just let them in .. but then always.

[mtls2005]

Its a great thing, but no Thai government has ever allowed this before. Even when the democrats wanted them the PTP /TRT did not. So its not a junta thing its a Thai thing.

Are you sure? I am under the impression that Thailand has long allowed foreign observers of elections, and even that many impartial observers have commented on the lack of vote buying. But I do understand these views may run against the informal "wisdom" of the Junta Huggers (or Humpers of the Junta's Leg).

Poll agency invites foreign observers to observe Thai election

BANGKOK, June 30 - Thailand's Election Commission (EC) said on Thursday it has invited international representatives and organisations to observe the July 3 general election.

Election Commissioner Prapan Naikowit disclosed the information as he and EC Secretary-General Suthipol Thaweechaikarn opened a seminar on the Thai election observation by foreigners and international organisations attended by representatives of 11 countries including Australia, Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, South Korea, Malaysia, Maldives, Nepal, Switzerland and Japan.

Mr Suthipol said the invitation of foreign representatives to observe July 3 election is aimed at creating better understanding about the Thai election and the voting management of the agency, the Election Commission, which he asserts meets international standard practices.

http://www.mcot.net/site/content?id=4ff672fe0b01dabf3c0223ed#.V19w1buF6Uk

[smutcakes]

Can one of the junta supporters please step in and explain why banning foreign observers is a good thing?

Not expecting an answer of course, but miracles do sometime happen...

Its a great thing, but no Thai government has ever allowed this before. Even when the democrats wanted them the PTP /TRT did not. So its not a junta thing its a Thai thing.

Its a big loss of face when you allow foreign observers, that is one of the reasons why not.

Id say allow foreign observers but then allow them always also when other Thai governments are in place. Not selective. I wonder what the observers would have said when Democrats could not go in the campaign red lands without fear of their life.

Anyway.. just let them in .. but then always.

Big loss of face, but yet the EC are quite happy to visit many other countries to observe elections ostensibly to 'learn'!, yet is suddenly becomes a loss of face to have them observe in Thailand.

[smedly]

during the last attempt at a new charter all the red fan boys on here made claims that the government didn't want the charter approved because they wanted to stay in power

Now that this charter is aprroved and we are heading for a referendum and ultimately and election you are all now wanting the referendum to be rejected and no elections

there no pleasing you is there, the only thing that is going to work is to hand control of the country over to the nonelected UUD lol and control given back to the convicted criminal Thaksin

Oh and who was the idiot farang (in the photo) I noticed on the red stage last week when they made this announcement, well it looked like a farang lol

Oh and before you claim election or not the army will still be in power - that is your interpretation, I quite like the idea that a future elected Thai government actually has to answer to someone for their actions, usually it is the Thai people but since they were generally ignored when millions took to the streets in peaceful protests and were slaughtered by government sponsored terrorists while the police were told to do nothing, I see this as a reasonable compromise and a necessary one.

[mtls2005]

when millions took to the streets in peaceful protests and were slaughtered by government sponsored terrorists

Is this a plot from a movie you saw recently? Sounds thrilling.

[robblok]

Can one of the junta supporters please step in and explain why banning foreign observers is a good thing?

Not expecting an answer of course, but miracles do sometime happen...

Its a great thing, but no Thai government has ever allowed this before. Even when the democrats wanted them the PTP /TRT did not. So its not a junta thing its a Thai thing.

Its a big loss of face when you allow foreign observers, that is one of the reasons why not.

Id say allow foreign observers but then allow them always also when other Thai governments are in place. Not selective. I wonder what the observers would have said when Democrats could not go in the campaign red lands without fear of their life.

Anyway.. just let them in .. but then always.

Big loss of face, but yet the EC are quite happy to visit many other countries to observe elections ostensibly to 'learn'!, yet is suddenly becomes a loss of face to have them observe in Thailand.

Are you disagreeing that this is seen as loss of face by the Thais ?

Or are you looking at it from your point of view ?

If the second i can understand it, but I am 100% sure that the people in charge see it as a loss of face.

Who was it again who said the UN is not my father ? A famous Thai politician (convicted criminal)

So seems all of them hate foreign interference

[smedly]

when millions took to the streets in peaceful protests and were slaughtered by government sponsored terrorists

Is this a plot from a movie you saw recently? Sounds thrilling.

perhaps you slept through it or just choose to ignore it

during the last attempt at a new charter all the red fan boys on here made claims that the government didn't want the charter approved because they wanted to stay in power

Now that this charter is aprroved and we are heading for a referendum and ultimately and election you are all now wanting the referendum to be rejected and no elections

there no pleasing you is there, the only thing that is going to work is to hand control of the country over to the nonelected UUD lol and control given back to the convicted criminal Thaksin

Oh and who was the idiot farang (in the photo) I noticed on the red stage last week when they made this announcement, well it looked like a farang lol

Oh and before you claim election or not the army will still be in power - that is your interpretation, I quite like the idea that a future elected Thai government actually has to answer to someone for their actions, usually it is the Thai people but since they were generally ignored when millions took to the streets in peaceful protests and were slaughtered by government sponsored terrorists while the police were told to do nothing, I see this as a reasonable compromise and a necessary one.

[smedly]

when millions took to the streets in peaceful protests and were slaughtered by government sponsored terrorists

Is this a plot from a movie you saw recently? Sounds thrilling.

perhaps you slept through it or just choose to ignore it

during the last attempt at a new charter all the red fan boys on here made claims that the government didn't want the charter approved because they wanted to stay in power

Now that this charter is aprroved and we are heading for a referendum and ultimately and election you are all now wanting the referendum to be rejected and no elections

there no pleasing you is there, the only thing that is going to work is to hand control of the country over to the nonelected UUD lol and control given back to the convicted criminal Thaksin

Oh and who was the idiot farang (in the photo) I noticed on the red stage last week when they made this announcement, well it looked like a farang lol

Oh and before you claim election or not the army will still be in power - that is your interpretation, I quite like the idea that a future elected Thai government actually has to answer to someone for their actions, usually it is the Thai people but since they were generally ignored when millions took to the streets in peaceful protests and were slaughtered by government sponsored terrorists while the police were told to do nothing, I see this as a reasonable compromise and a necessary one.

you are aware of the murders including children to which the reds cheered on stage.................didn't happen right ?

[MZurf]

during the last attempt at a new charter all the red fan boys on here made claims that the government didn't want the charter approved because they wanted to stay in power

Now that this charter is aprroved and we are heading for a referendum and ultimately and election you are all now wanting the referendum to be rejected and no elections

there no pleasing you is there, the only thing that is going to work is to hand control of the country over to the nonelected UUD lol and control given back to the convicted criminal Thaksin

Oh and who was the idiot farang (in the photo) I noticed on the red stage last week when they made this announcement, well it looked like a farang lol

Oh and before you claim election or not the army will still be in power - that is your interpretation, I quite like the idea that a future elected Thai government actually has to answer to someone for their actions, usually it is the Thai people but since they were generally ignored when millions took to the streets in peaceful protests and were slaughtered by government sponsored terrorists while the police were told to do nothing, I see this as a reasonable compromise and a necessary one.

"during the last attempt at a new charter all the red fan boys on here made claims that the government didn't want the charter approved because they wanted to stay in power"

Yes, and that was clearly correct.

"Now that this charter is aprroved and we are heading for a referendum and ultimately and election you are all now wanting the referendum to be rejected and no elections"

Charter approved? Approved by who?? We are heading for an election - really? When will that be? Wanting the charter to be rejected - yes. Elections - yes.

"there no pleasing you is there, the only thing that is going to work is to hand control of the country over to the nonelected UUD lol and control given back to the convicted criminal Thaksin"

The UDD is not contesting in an election so why should it be elected?? Who here on TVF wants the unelected junta ti hand over power to the unelected UDD?? What I'm saying is "hold elections and whoever wins forms the government".

"Oh and who was the idiot farang (in the photo) I noticed on the red stage last week when they made this announcement, well it looked like a farang lol"

And?

"Oh and before you claim election or not the army will still be in power - that is your interpretation, I quite like the idea that a future elected Thai government actually has to answer to someone for their actions,"

So elected representatives have to answer to unelected persons. Tell me; who/what ensures that the unelected persons are any better that the elected ones???

In fact, let me pose the question yet again;

After a bunch of coups that didn't change a thing what is it about the present junta that makes you believe anything will be different?

PS. I'm disappointed that you did not mention the YL government's failed amnesty bid. Has it fina;lly dawned on you that bleeting on about this is hypocritical?

[Srikcir]

Can one of the junta supporters please step in and explain why banning foreign observers is a good thing?

Not expecting an answer of course, but miracles do sometime happen...

Its a great thing, but no Thai government has ever allowed this before. Even when the democrats wanted them the PTP /TRT did not. So its not a junta thing its a Thai thing.

Its a big loss of face when you allow foreign observers, that is one of the reasons why not.

Id say allow foreign observers but then allow them always also when other Thai governments are in place. Not selective. I wonder what the observers would have said when Democrats could not go in the campaign red lands without fear of their life.

Anyway.. just let them in .. but then always.

Its a big loss of face when you allow foreign observers, that is one of the reasons why not.

In the case of the Prayut regime I think the reason is more complex - but as you say, "that is one of the reasons why not."

This regime has sent dozens of its government officials to almost a half dozen countries as foreign observers to witness referendums and elections. Maybe these trips are more motivated by junkets at taxpayer expense for which there is no accountability. But in the final analysis the lesson learned from these foreign trips according to the Thai government is that no other country experience can be applied to Thailand. So political lessons were not the goal of the trips.

In contrast it would seem perfectly harmless to allow foreign observers into Thailand. Yet, Prayut will not reciprocate. He and Prawit quip essentially that foreign observers can't understand Thailand (so don;t come and learn) and somehow interfer with Thai sovereignty by their mere presence. I think its more his fear of truth that stands to threaten Prayut's power.

[robblok]

Can one of the junta supporters please step in and explain why banning foreign observers is a good thing?

Not expecting an answer of course, but miracles do sometime happen...

Its a great thing, but no Thai government has ever allowed this before. Even when the democrats wanted them the PTP /TRT did not. So its not a junta thing its a Thai thing.

Its a big loss of face when you allow foreign observers, that is one of the reasons why not.

Id say allow foreign observers but then allow them always also when other Thai governments are in place. Not selective. I wonder what the observers would have said when Democrats could not go in the campaign red lands without fear of their life.

Anyway.. just let them in .. but then always.

Its a big loss of face when you allow foreign observers, that is one of the reasons why not.

In the case of the Prayut regime I think the reason is more complex - but as you say, "that is one of the reasons why not."

This regime has sent dozens of its government officials to almost a half dozen countries as foreign observers to witness referendums and elections. Maybe these trips are more motivated by junkets at taxpayer expense for which there is no accountability. But in the final analysis the lesson learned from these foreign trips according to the Thai government is that no other country experience can be applied to Thailand. So political lessons were not the goal of the trips.

In contrast it would seem perfectly harmless to allow foreign observers into Thailand. Yet, Prayut will not reciprocate. He and Prawit quip essentially that foreign observers can't understand Thailand (so don;t come and learn) and somehow interfer with Thai sovereignty by their mere presence. I think its more his fear of truth that stands to threaten Prayut's power.

I guess your making a mistake on purpose because your not stupid.

Did the Thais go there as observers to check if the elections were done fairly or to observe the process to learn from it. ?

Here they are asking for observers to check if elections are done fairly.. totally different thing. So there is nothing to reciprocate.

The two things are clearly different even a blind man could see.. unless there was some red paint in their eyes.

Going on a study trip to learn from someones elections or to be official observers to see if the elections are done fairly and report on it.

I am not against observers.. just against your argument that is flawed.

Also.. I remember dear leader (Thaksin) hating observers, the UN is not my father

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Thaksin_Shinawatra

[Eric Loh]

Got to love the UDD running rings round the junta and see them react. Doubt the UDD is serious that the centers will stop cheating but did this to annoy the junta. Jaruporn milked this smartly by saying Prayuth and the EC have no objection and left Prawit fuming to curb the centers. He is creating conflicts within the NCPO. Brilliant that he intend to write to the international agencies and bring international spotlight on the referendum. Now the pressure on the junta.

Surely the UDD know that the junta has all the power to stop the centers and really who will believe what the UDD reports. This just a clever way to pose doubts to the general public and international and have them alert to the outcome of the referendum.

[smedly]

during the last attempt at a new charter all the red fan boys on here made claims that the government didn't want the charter approved because they wanted to stay in power

Now that this charter is aprroved and we are heading for a referendum and ultimately and election you are all now wanting the referendum to be rejected and no elections

there no pleasing you is there, the only thing that is going to work is to hand control of the country over to the nonelected UUD lol and control given back to the convicted criminal Thaksin

Oh and who was the idiot farang (in the photo) I noticed on the red stage last week when they made this announcement, well it looked like a farang lol

Oh and before you claim election or not the army will still be in power - that is your interpretation, I quite like the idea that a future elected Thai government actually has to answer to someone for their actions, usually it is the Thai people but since they were generally ignored when millions took to the streets in peaceful protests and were slaughtered by government sponsored terrorists while the police were told to do nothing, I see this as a reasonable compromise and a necessary one.

"during the last attempt at a new charter all the red fan boys on here made claims that the government didn't want the charter approved because they wanted to stay in power"

Yes, and that was clearly correct.

"Now that this charter is aprroved and we are heading for a referendum and ultimately and election you are all now wanting the referendum to be rejected and no elections"

Charter approved? Approved by who?? We are heading for an election - really? When will that be? Wanting the charter to be rejected - yes. Elections - yes.

"there no pleasing you is there, the only thing that is going to work is to hand control of the country over to the nonelected UUD lol and control given back to the convicted criminal Thaksin"

The UDD is not contesting in an election so why should it be elected?? Who here on TVF wants the unelected junta ti hand over power to the unelected UDD?? What I'm saying is "hold elections and whoever wins forms the government".

"Oh and who was the idiot farang (in the photo) I noticed on the red stage last week when they made this announcement, well it looked like a farang lol"

And?

"Oh and before you claim election or not the army will still be in power - that is your interpretation, I quite like the idea that a future elected Thai government actually has to answer to someone for their actions,"

So elected representatives have to answer to unelected persons. Tell me; who/what ensures that the unelected persons are any better that the elected ones???

In fact, let me pose the question yet again;

After a bunch of coups that didn't change a thing what is it about the present junta that makes you believe anything will be different?

PS. I'm disappointed that you did not mention the YL government's failed amnesty bid. Has it fina;lly dawned on you that bleeting on about this is hypocritical?

people who are tasked with upholding the law are in most countries (if not all) not elected by the people, they are in place for law enforcement and to operate the justice system, unfortunately as we have all seen in Thailand those tasked with upholding the law are controlled by the sitting government so that system currently doesn't work here, what I see is a collective group from from various parts of Thai society that will be in place to make sure that the sitting elected government works within the law and in the interests of the country and its people and not themselves as we have seen in the past, unfortunate but I honestly cannot see any other way forward

[Winniedapu]

Can one of the junta supporters please step in and explain why banning foreign observers is a good thing?

Not expecting an answer of course, but miracles do sometime happen...

Not a junta supporter but I hope you don't mind I answer this question.

Foreign observers seem to be somewhat confused about Thai election games. So no need for them.

"An Asian election monitoring group has hailed Thailand's nationwide election as final results were tallied for being generally peaceful, orderly and allowing the public to express their voice. But, theAsian Network for Free Elections also cited some flaws in the polls and warned the Thai military not to intervene in politics. "

http://www.voanews.com/content/asian-observer-group-commends-thai-election-cites-minor-flaws--125003034/141777.html

"Having served as a short-term international observer for the general election in Thailand earlier this month on July 3, I unfortunately became somewhat of an expert in the dark arts of vote buying.

As one of 60 observers from the Asian Network for Free Elections (ANFREL) deployed around the country, I spent eight days in Chonburi province in the lead-up to election day. Located just a little east of Bangkok, Chonburi is home to Kamnan Poh, the notorious godfather who once declared, “I used to have enemies in Chonburi, but they all died.” "

http://asiafoundation.org/2011/07/13/dark-reality-to-vote-buying-in-thailand/

Not a junta supporter but I hope you don't mind I answer this question.

Translated: I know you know I'm a junta-hugger, but if I say I am, then you won't take me seriously.

So

This time, I'll say I'm not a junta-hugger so you'll take what I say seriously and forget all my posts for the last however many months.

Seriously, you can believe me. Honest. Promise. Cross my heart and hope to die.

ps I love Yingluck and I want to have her babies. No, wait, that's not right...

Winnie

ps Not a junta-hugger... dear oh dear...

Edited June 14, 2016 by Winniedapu

[jayboy]

There is a violent organisation close by and intimidating. But most people would have a clearer idea what that might be than the crazies.

[Srikcir]

Can one of the junta supporters please step in and explain why banning foreign observers is a good thing?

Not expecting an answer of course, but miracles do sometime happen...

Its a great thing, but no Thai government has ever allowed this before. Even when the democrats wanted them the PTP /TRT did not. So its not a junta thing its a Thai thing.

Its a big loss of face when you allow foreign observers, that is one of the reasons why not.

Id say allow foreign observers but then allow them always also when other Thai governments are in place. Not selective. I wonder what the observers would have said when Democrats could not go in the campaign red lands without fear of their life.

Anyway.. just let them in .. but then always.

Its a big loss of face when you allow foreign observers, that is one of the reasons why not.

In the case of the Prayut regime I think the reason is more complex - but as you say, "that is one of the reasons why not."

This regime has sent dozens of its government officials to almost a half dozen countries as foreign observers to witness referendums and elections. Maybe these trips are more motivated by junkets at taxpayer expense for which there is no accountability. But in the final analysis the lesson learned from these foreign trips according to the Thai government is that no other country experience can be applied to Thailand. So political lessons were not the goal of the trips.

In contrast it would seem perfectly harmless to allow foreign observers into Thailand. Yet, Prayut will not reciprocate. He and Prawit quip essentially that foreign observers can't understand Thailand (so don;t come and learn) and somehow interfer with Thai sovereignty by their mere presence. I think its more his fear of truth that stands to threaten Prayut's power.

I guess your making a mistake on purpose because your not stupid.

Did the Thais go there as observers to check if the elections were done fairly or to observe the process to learn from it. ?

Here they are asking for observers to check if elections are done fairly.. totally different thing. So there is nothing to reciprocate.

The two things are clearly different even a blind man could see.. unless there was some red paint in their eyes.

Going on a study trip to learn from someones elections or to be official observers to see if the elections are done fairly and report on it.

I am not against observers.. just against your argument that is flawed.

Also.. I remember dear leader (Thaksin) hating observers, the UN is not my father

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Thaksin_Shinawatra

Its a big loss of face when you allow foreign observers, that is one of the reasons why not.

What were the rest of your reasons?

[Eric Loh]

when millions took to the streets in peaceful protests and were slaughtered by government sponsored terrorists

Is this a plot from a movie you saw recently? Sounds thrilling.

perhaps you slept through it or just choose to ignore it

during the last attempt at a new charter all the red fan boys on here made claims that the government didn't want the charter approved because they wanted to stay in power

Now that this charter is aprroved and we are heading for a referendum and ultimately and election you are all now wanting the referendum to be rejected and no elections

there no pleasing you is there, the only thing that is going to work is to hand control of the country over to the nonelected UUD lol and control given back to the convicted criminal Thaksin

Oh and who was the idiot farang (in the photo) I noticed on the red stage last week when they made this announcement, well it looked like a farang lol

Oh and before you claim election or not the army will still be in power - that is your interpretation, I quite like the idea that a future elected Thai government actually has to answer to someone for their actions, usually it is the Thai people but since they were generally ignored when millions took to the streets in peaceful protests and were slaughtered by government sponsored terrorists while the police were told to do nothing, I see this as a reasonable compromise and a necessary one.

you are aware of the murders including children to which the reds cheered on stage.................didn't happen right ?

We are also aware of the popcorn shooter killing an elderly man and injuring 3 others and was hailed as hero by the yellows. Both equally bad in my books or you with the yellows proclaiming the popcorn shooter as a hero. Your thoughts.

[robblok]

Its a great thing, but no Thai government has ever allowed this before. Even when the democrats wanted them the PTP /TRT did not. So its not a junta thing its a Thai thing.

Its a big loss of face when you allow foreign observers, that is one of the reasons why not.

Id say allow foreign observers but then allow them always also when other Thai governments are in place. Not selective. I wonder what the observers would have said when Democrats could not go in the campaign red lands without fear of their life.

Anyway.. just let them in .. but then always.

Its a big loss of face when you allow foreign observers, that is one of the reasons why not.

In the case of the Prayut regime I think the reason is more complex - but as you say, "that is one of the reasons why not."

This regime has sent dozens of its government officials to almost a half dozen countries as foreign observers to witness referendums and elections. Maybe these trips are more motivated by junkets at taxpayer expense for which there is no accountability. But in the final analysis the lesson learned from these foreign trips according to the Thai government is that no other country experience can be applied to Thailand. So political lessons were not the goal of the trips.

In contrast it would seem perfectly harmless to allow foreign observers into Thailand. Yet, Prayut will not reciprocate. He and Prawit quip essentially that foreign observers can't understand Thailand (so don;t come and learn) and somehow interfer with Thai sovereignty by their mere presence. I think its more his fear of truth that stands to threaten Prayut's power.

I guess your making a mistake on purpose because your not stupid.

Did the Thais go there as observers to check if the elections were done fairly or to observe the process to learn from it. ?

Here they are asking for observers to check if elections are done fairly.. totally different thing. So there is nothing to reciprocate.

The two things are clearly different even a blind man could see.. unless there was some red paint in their eyes.

Going on a study trip to learn from someones elections or to be official observers to see if the elections are done fairly and report on it.

I am not against observers.. just against your argument that is flawed.

Also.. I remember dear leader (Thaksin) hating observers, the UN is not my father

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Thaksin_Shinawatra

Its a big loss of face when you allow foreign observers, that is one of the reasons why not.

What were the rest of your reasons?

Not my reasons (looking through their eyes), but you stay awfully silent on my arguments... you agree you were wrong ?

Other reasons could be giving up some sovereignty and nobody likes it when others are checking what they do (i know i dislike it).

Plus of course no Thai government has ever let observers come your beloved Thaksin was against them just as much.

I say let them come but then let them also check all elections when PTP are in power and comment on the problems democrats have with their safety when campaigning in red territories. Might be good to have them here so all parties keep to the law. But to be honest I really doubt it will happen.

[baboon]

Can one of the junta supporters please step in and explain why banning foreign observers is a good thing?

Not expecting an answer of course, but miracles do sometime happen...

Not a junta supporter but I hope you don't mind I answer this question.

Foreign observers seem to be somewhat confused about Thai election games. So no need for them.

"An Asian election monitoring group has hailed Thailand's nationwide election as final results were tallied for being generally peaceful, orderly and allowing the public to express their voice. But, theAsian Network for Free Elections also cited some flaws in the polls and warned the Thai military not to intervene in politics. "

http://www.voanews.com/content/asian-observer-group-commends-thai-election-cites-minor-flaws--125003034/141777.html

"Having served as a short-term international observer for the general election in Thailand earlier this month on July 3, I unfortunately became somewhat of an expert in the dark arts of vote buying.

As one of 60 observers from the Asian Network for Free Elections (ANFREL) deployed around the country, I spent eight days in Chonburi province in the lead-up to election day. Located just a little east of Bangkok, Chonburi is home to Kamnan Poh, the notorious godfather who once declared, I used to have enemies in Chonburi, but they all died. "

http://asiafoundation.org/2011/07/13/dark-reality-to-vote-buying-in-thailand/

Not a junta supporter but I hope you don't mind I answer this question.

Translated: I know you know I'm a junta-hugger, but if I say I am, then you won't take me seriously.

So

This time, I'll say I'm not a junta-hugger so you'll take what I say seriously and forget all my posts for the last however many months.

Seriously, you can believe me. Honest. Promise. Cross my heart and hope to die.

ps I love Yingluck and I want to have her babies. No, wait, that's not right...

Winnie

ps Not a junta-hugger... dear oh dear...

I think you might find that what he means is either 'I am not ORDINARILY a supporter of juntas with the exception of this one' or 'I do not accept the fact that the Thai junta is a junta'.

I like the rest of what you had to say, however.