Fined from immigration yesterday in our hotel

[LivinginKata]

I know several guys who have some condos that they rent out. They have never paid any tax nor have they registered their renters. They are quite worried right now. Recently immigration has been asking for details and information from renters. Renters need to furnish a contract, name of the owner they rent from and a copy of the owner's ID.

Everyone at my school was asked to get this information (from out landlord/wife) before we could get out extension of stay on our non-imm B - no fines imposed for not having done it. Note, this is different documentation than hotels reporting their guests. But is seems they are cracking down on everything they can now.

Us aliens would not be fined, only the house owner might be fined. Most hotels have always complied with this rule but most folks renting rooms/apartments never used to bother. But these last 2 or 3 years whenapplying for the annual extension then Immigration dip into their database and if the applicatant is not registered at the address on the application .... application refused.

[tropo]

Then this sounds like the Police/Immigration Officers were amiable, following the law, and being perfectly legit. That's nice

IMO they weren't nice at all. Hotels are an important part of tourism income for Thailand and play a big role in the industry. Nice would have been understanding the OP is brand new to the business - then school him on proper procedure and give him a much smaller fine if any at all. The law states "maximum of 10k per guest". They chose to hit him with a sledgehammer instead. They had plenty of leeway.

It would have been pretty obvious that he erred out of ignorance. Would any hotel owner be so stupid as to risk such heavy fines to avoid some simple paperwork?

[tropo]

Bad Luck & rather harsh treatment for a first offence. (Hopefully your last)

This could be a wake up call for anybody who owns & rents out rooms, condos or houses.

Wonder if my landlord has notified immigration of our details (12 years in same apartment) ???

LOL> same problem here. Have been on to the landlord for years to get this done.

[tropo]

One should remember, that this procedure is for good sound reasons, and can catch out many illegals, and ne'er do wells. In these days of extreme terrorism, there's probably many a person who would like to enter LOS illegally and then try to carry on life normally until they feel ready to act.

This procedure happens in many countries, Thailand is not alone in requiring new guests to be registered with the Government.

A sensible law.

Do you really think "illegals" will be signing themselves into hotels with real names? Most people know guests must be registered with immigration... you'd think that illegals would be more careful than most.

[impulse]

Kudos to the OP for warning anyone else in the same situation to get their house in order or risk a chunk of change.

Razzies to everyone giving the guy a hard time.

We as an expat community miss out on good info when people are afraid to post their experiences, for fear of the idiots responses.

Edited June 18, 2016 by impulse

[tolsti]

The registration requirement is going to cause issues with the BnB brigade within condos. The responsibility for registration lies with the apartment owner(s).

[Alive]

Don't remember where it was but the last time I stayed in a hotel in Pattaya or Jomtien a few months ago the staff didn't even ask for my information. They just took the money and gave me the key. It was a pretty good place. Not a run down joint.

[impulse]

The registration requirement is going to cause issues with the BnB brigade within condos. The responsibility for registration lies with the apartment owner(s).

Wait for the day they advertise a phone number to call to rat them out, and even offer a percentage reward to the whistleblower. That could be a real earner for the BIB, at 10K a pop.

I live in an apartment where all units are owned by the landlord, but some of my workmates in pretty high dollar condos are constantly having noise and security issues with short stay guests. They'd even pay for a number to call.

[LivinginKata]

The registration requirement is going to cause issues with the BnB brigade within condos. The responsibility for registration lies with the apartment owner(s).

To be honest these very short term rentals will fly under the Immigration and Tax radar. But if anyone if living here with a one year extension - beware ...

[balo]

I doubt Thai owners would pay 6000 in fine for each guest, 66k sounds a bit too much.

[impulse]

I doubt Thai owners would pay 6000 in fine for each guest, 66k sounds a bit too much.

Probably right, but Asians grow up negotiating everything. We from the "every price is clearly marked and everyone pays the same clearly marked price" have a tendency to knuckle under when it comes to negotiating, and then blame it on discrimination and dual pricing.

The protections of our nanny governments didn't very well prepare us for doing business in the rest of the world.

[bamukloy]

I know several guys who have some condos that they rent out. They have never paid any tax nor have they registered their renters. They are quite worried right now. Recently immigration has been asking for details and information from renters. Renters need to furnish a contract, name of the owner they rent from and a copy of the owner's ID.

And what if you live in a gfs house, or condo with gf name on lease?

Anyone in this position that knows already, you try and tell the gf and the landlord, they both look at you like you are crazy.

I mentioned this issue to several Thais and they mostly just scoff or say "no no, no have to do for you"

So yeah..pretty hard to get the process done, copies of lease etc when your up against this.

then if they get fined,they will be coming to you for the money because its your fault cause your the farang staying here.grrr

Bamukloy - this set up (living in your gf's house or in a leased condo where the lease is in her name) does make it complicated. why would you arrange things that way?

Still, I do sympathize with the OP. It hurts when it is money hard earned and due to ignorance of the regulations. For the nay-sayers, here, all Thai laws have to be followed. Regulations, not being a specific law, may or may not be enforced (as was the case with the TM 28/30 for many years, up to 2016).

I doesnt effect me now, as my situation has changed.

But yes, years past staying in hotels and condos ive thought about this.

I do have some friends who mention this issue.I guess some prefer to make lease in a Thai gf's name, can be asier dealing with landlords and more chance of getting your deposit back.

But as other posters have said, you very rarely hear this report and kind of like being struck by lightning.

Still, the OPs issue at the hotel, seems as if they are going at soft target farang for easy tea money.

has anyone ever read where they bust a thai hotel owner??

I never heard it.

not saying it is the case with this guy, but i seem to notice many times farang who tell immigration what the rules are, talk rude and condescending to the officers...strangely these are the ones ALWAYS having problems.

Over 8 years gone for me and never had a problem

[stevenl]

Then this sounds like the Police/Immigration Officers were amiable, following the law, and being perfectly legit. That's nice

IMO they weren't nice at all. Hotels are an important part of tourism income for Thailand and play a big role in the industry. Nice would have been understanding the OP is brand new to the business - then school him on proper procedure and give him a much smaller fine if any at all. The law states "maximum of 10k per guest". They chose to hit him with a sledgehammer instead. They had plenty of leeway.

It would have been pretty obvious that he erred out of ignorance. Would any hotel owner be so stupid as to risk such heavy fines to avoid some simple paperwork?

Since many hotels are clearly not reporting: yes, they are so stupid.

[mikiea]

Good! Next time you will follow Thai Law!

ol' tommy ya seem a little holier than thou .....i wonder what the people around you think of having to "be" around you . that would be interesting to know . i am sure it is along the lines of what the big cats think of the monks in the tiger temple . . of that i am sure ................

[tropo]

Then this sounds like the Police/Immigration Officers were amiable, following the law, and being perfectly legit. That's nice

IMO they weren't nice at all. Hotels are an important part of tourism income for Thailand and play a big role in the industry. Nice would have been understanding the OP is brand new to the business - then school him on proper procedure and give him a much smaller fine if any at all. The law states "maximum of 10k per guest". They chose to hit him with a sledgehammer instead. They had plenty of leeway.

It would have been pretty obvious that he erred out of ignorance. Would any hotel owner be so stupid as to risk such heavy fines to avoid some simple paperwork?

Since many hotels are clearly not reporting: yes, they are so stupid.

How would you know how many hotels are reporting or not?

[bruceamstutz]

So how is it that the 'real' 10,000 baht fine can be negotiated down to 6,000 baht?

That issue alone makes the whole procedure appear vulnerable to corruption and abuse.

Check that!!!....There is little in the LOS that isn't vulnerable to corruption and abuse........LOL/555....

[tropo]

*deleted*

Edited June 18, 2016 by tropo

[OMGImInPattaya]

Good! Next time you will follow Thai Law!

Sigh, and I guess you know every Thai law that's ever been passed?

As the OP said he's new to this, a harsh lesson learnt for him

The law in question is very well known and has been much discussed. Anyone in or contemplating going into the hotel business should be well aware of it. Also, the lawyer or accountant for the business should have made them aware of it.

If one goes into business, it's their responsibility to make themselves aware of the laws and regulations pertinent to it.

[jphasia]

So why didnt you register the guests, it should be SOP.

To be honest as i am new in this kind of business i don't know.I made a mistake,i paied for it,now will not be happen again.

You might read my comments in another post:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/899118-Hotel-checking#entry10482992

[tomwct]

Just a reminder to report your guests!

[IMA_FARANG]

What you had is what they jokingly call "an educational experience".

We've all had them ourselves....in one form or another.

[OMGImInPattaya]

So how is it that the 'real' 10,000 baht fine can be negotiated down to 6,000 baht?

That issue alone makes the whole procedure appear vulnerable to corruption and abuse.

Check that!!!....There is little in the LOS that isn't vulnerable to corruption and abuse........LOL/555....

There is nothing unusual about this...in Thailand or many other countries. There is often a range of civil monetary fines or prison sentences for criminal acts set out in a country's laws. This gives law enforcement and judges some flexibility when determining punishment for a crime depending on its severity and the state of mind of the offender.

[stevenl]

Then this sounds like the Police/Immigration Officers were amiable, following the law, and being perfectly legit. That's nice

IMO they weren't nice at all. Hotels are an important part of tourism income for Thailand and play a big role in the industry. Nice would have been understanding the OP is brand new to the business - then school him on proper procedure and give him a much smaller fine if any at all. The law states "maximum of 10k per guest". They chose to hit him with a sledgehammer instead. They had plenty of leeway.

It would have been pretty obvious that he erred out of ignorance. Would any hotel owner be so stupid as to risk such heavy fines to avoid some simple paperwork?

Since many hotels are clearly not reporting: yes, they are so stupid.

How would you know how many hotels are reporting or not?

Look st all the posts with people saying they checked in without passport or with just a cursory passport check.

[Sawan Chan 7]

So how is it that the 'real' 10,000 baht fine can be negotiated down to 6,000 baht?

That issue alone makes the whole procedure appear vulnerable to corruption and abuse.

As I wrote before the maximum fine is 10,000 baht.

A lower fine can be imposed and is at the discretion of the officer with the authority do do it.

Interesting as I have a Thai friend with a hotel who says that 6000 a person is unheard of.

Learn to speak Thai properly and learn how to 'negotiate' properly OP.

[Ian1980]

So how is it that the 'real' 10,000 baht fine can be negotiated down to 6,000 baht?

That issue alone makes the whole procedure appear vulnerable to corruption and abuse.

As I wrote before the maximum fine is 10,000 baht.

A lower fine can be imposed and is at the discretion of the officer with the authority do do it.

Interesting as I have a Thai friend with a hotel who says that 6000 a person is unheard of.

Learn to speak Thai properly and learn how to 'negotiate' properly OP.

I can speak,read and write Thai correctly...but was fines anyway.

[Ian1980]

And yesterday,at 11 pm,police come to ask tips:"We can guarantee your security with just some tips sometimes".Very clever cause they come in uniform but without the badge with the name.