Do USA citizen need to pay tax in Thailand?

[sas_cars]

Myself I m a non-US citizen myself so nothing here concerns me, but I just had my child born in NY last month, so that's why I m here collecting information on this topic, to be told to my kid later on in life.

Durn good reason. Assuming your child will have another citizenship under his/her belt, the child can always renounce U.S. citizenship once old enough. If going to do that probably best to do it before coming of working age/going out into the world on his/her own. Could be a tough decision to make depending on the environment the child grows up in and prefers to live in, associated benefits, etc. Seems like there are always pluses and minuses to having dual citizen between any two countries....can get complicated sometimes and not only for taxes. Hope it all works out.

F. RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN/INCOMPETENTS

Citizenship is a status that is personal to the U.S. citizen. Therefore parents may not renounce the citizenship of their minor children. Similarly, parents/legal guardians may not renounce the citizenship of individuals who are mentally incompetent. Minors seeking to renounce their U.S. citizenship must demonstrate to a consular officer that they are acting voluntarily and that they fully understand the implications/consequences attendant to the renunciation of U.S. citizenship.

Thanks a lot Pib for your usual wonderful suggestion. Yes he is a dual citizen at the moment and will probably become a triple citizen in the future as I have intentions to apply for thai citizenship as soon as I am eligible. I am a PR at the moment and will eligible to apply for thai citizenship in 4 years time. I think I will let him decide on US citizenship at least until he turns 22 or more. Nothing to do in haste. One should be proud to be a US citizen IMHO since it's arguably the best country in the world.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

-where's the tax saving gifting $14k cash? only gift tax is saved but income tax on the gifted amount is or has been already levied.

-why would a potential Thai partner invest in Thailand generating an income tax liability instead of investing it offshore?

-why would anybody living abroad report to the IRS that he/she has gifted x-amount Dollars instead of pretending having it spent?

1. Money/cash has ongoing earning potential, once re-invested. If I liquidate a U.S. holding that pays taxable income in the U.S. and then give $14,000 of those proceeds to my non-U.S. citizen wife, I have no U.S. tax liability associated with the gift and neither does she. And by making the gift, I would be reducing my taxable income and presumably my actual tax obligation for the year.

2. Then, the wife or other giftee can take those funds and reinvest them to earn income wherever they choose. The gift recipient could invest the gifted funds wherever they wanted to, or were capable of investing. And they would be responsible for any tax obligation associated with that investment, if any.

3. Under U.S. tax law, as long as the total a U.S. citizen gifts in a tax year remains under the $14,000+ amount, there's no reporting of anything required to the IRS. I don't have to report making the gift, and the person receiving it doesn't have to report it either.

However, as should be obvious, gifting also means that the gifter is no longer in possession or control of those funds. They now belong to another person, the giftee.

Edited June 23, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[thaihome]

Do you stick to only interest bearing or capital gain potential type investments to avoid US tax?

TH

i'm not sure what you mean TH. are you referring to US income tax (applicable only to US citizens and US persons) or US withholding tax on dividends applicable also to non-US persons?

You knew exactly what I meant and just avoided answering the question by throwing up a semantic strawman. But, yes I was referring to the 30% tax withheld on dividend income (also known as an income tax).

As far as I can tell, only interest and capital gains are US tax free for non-resident aliens. All other US sourced income is subject to some sort of [income] tax. Was just curious if your (and the poster you quoted) US based income was completely tax free or did you pay US tax. If you are living on interest from US based bonds, good for you.

TH

[F4UCorsair]

OP, you cannot legally avoid paying tax somewhere. If you earn money, you must pay tax to some government.

You're riding high on the hog right now, thinking you're in the clear, but you will be called upon to pay tax at some time in the future, and in all probability, it will be retrospective, along with a fine, usually for the amount of tax avoided, but can be considerably higher.

That is completely untrue.

One example of many.

1 - British citizen, resident in Thailand

2 - All income is earned from USA and paid to a personal account in Hong Kong

3 - Income is held in Hong Kong and remitted to Thailand on the subsequent January 1st

This is entirely legally tax free because:

1 - Britain does not tax foreign income of non residents.

2 - Hong Kong does not tax non HK income of non residents.

3 - Thailand only taxes foreign income remitted to Thailand in the year it is earned.

nail... head!

but no matter how often you explain a quite simple tax situation there will always be some 'know-it-all' (who possesses a wealth of no idea about taxes) insisting "that can't be!"

I don't claim to be an authority, nor do I claim to know it all as you do Naam, so I suggest this.

Somebody in this situation should declare his position to each jurisdiction, particularly the US where the income is earned, and ask for a ruling. That's simple enough, and safe, if you feel there is no liability.

You will find there will be a tax liability.

[Naam]

Do you stick to only interest bearing or capital gain potential type investments to avoid US tax?

TH

i'm not sure what you mean TH. are you referring to US income tax (applicable only to US citizens and US persons) or US withholding tax on dividends applicable also to non-US persons?

You knew exactly what I meant and just avoided answering the question by throwing up a semantic strawman. But, yes I was referring to the 30% tax withheld on dividend income (also known as an income tax).

As far as I can tell, only interest and capital gains are US tax free for non-resident aliens. All other US sourced income is subject to some sort of [income] tax. Was just curious if your (and the poster you quoted) US based income was completely tax free or did you pay US tax. If you are living on interest from US based bonds, good for you.

TH

usually i ignore rude comments from trolls but today is a special day and i am happy to comment.

-i don't touch any asset who's yield is taxable, exception some cash Baht which earn a peanuts percentage of interest,

-i'm an investor who invests globally and who's US based income is less than 15% but the USD denominated exceeds 80%,

-there's no requirement whatsoever to declare my assets, income, capital gains (sometimes losses) to any authority,

-as a "resident" of Thailand i legally avoid to pay income tax by transferring savings only.

[F4UCorsair]

Hey, my bad, maybe he's Portuguese since he said he's PT. Unless PT means something else like Pregnant Teenager, etc....so many abbreviations and slang now days to sometimes confuse tax issues.

PT = permanent traveller

OK, thanks for that clarification. Now we are back to a EU citizen (specific country unknown at this time) being concerned about the U.S. tax laws for U.S. folks living outside the U.S. That's OK...we all have strange concerns.

Myself I m a non-US citizen myself so nothing here concerns me, but I just had my child born in NY last month, so that's why I m here collecting information on this topic, to be told to my kid later on in life.

If you're collecting information on TV, you're collecting it in the wrong place, if you want it to be accurate.

Secondly, telling what info you glean from an expat forum to your kid later in life will be futile, because laws change frequently, and other than making it into a bedtime story, it will be irrelevant.

[thaihome]

Do you stick to only interest bearing or capital gain potential type investments to avoid US tax?

TH

i'm not sure what you mean TH. are you referring to US income tax (applicable only to US citizens and US persons) or US withholding tax on dividends applicable also to non-US persons?

You knew exactly what I meant and just avoided answering the question by throwing up a semantic strawman. But, yes I was referring to the 30% tax withheld on dividend income (also known as an income tax).

As far as I can tell, only interest and capital gains are US tax free for non-resident aliens. All other US sourced income is subject to some sort of [income] tax. Was just curious if your (and the poster you quoted) US based income was completely tax free or did you pay US tax. If you are living on interest from US based bonds, good for you.

TH

usually i ignore rude comments from trolls but today is a special day and i am happy to comment.

-i don't touch any asset who's yield is taxable, exception some cash Baht which earn a peanuts percentage of interest,

-i'm an investor who invests globally and who's US based income is less than 15% but the USD denominated exceeds 80%,

-there's no requirement whatsoever to declare my assets, income, capital gains (sometimes losses) to any authority,

-as a "resident" of Thailand i legally avoid to pay income tax by transferring savings only.

Thanks for response, did not intend to come across as a troll, but this response could have been made to my first question.

We all like to avoid any taxes when we can, it is great for non US citizens outside the US that they can avoid US taxes on specific, though limited, investments. A US citizen can only do that on a much more limited basis such as certain types of government issued bonds.

Back to the OP, not paying thai tax is easy unless you are working here, then hopefully you have an employer paying it for you.

TH

[returnofthailand]

I don't work in Thailand, I don't work at all and I m off radar legally because I have informed my country I m gone. they can not tax me because my country tax on residence and not on citizenship( put this law in your head once for all) and I don't stay long enough in one country except Thailand. Thailand taxes only money done in Thailand and as I don't make any money here they can not tax me as I m a tourist.

no tax, no money, nothing for them... I keep 100 percent for myself and for years no problem. so what country will run after me and for what? I know tax investigators and they know my situation. so far they have not been able to do anything than asking how many days I stay in my country.

I make sure I don't stay more than 180 days. this is so funny that you American guys think(brainwashed by irs) that everybody must pay tax when it s so easy to not pay anything at all . it just took me 5 minutes to avoid to pay tax for years and I have saved already hundred and hundred of thousand dollars . all bad comments usually come from jealous people

Edited July 3, 2016 by returnofthailand

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I make sure I don't stay more than 180 days. this is so funny that you American guys think(brainwashed by irs) that everybody must pay tax when it s so easy to not pay anything at all

You're not an American, so the rules are different for you than they are for American citizens.

As you apparently do understand, Americans are taxed on worldwide income, doesn't matter where they live or how long or short they stay there.

If you want to talk rules that apply to people from other countries, that's an entirely different matter.

But it would be helpful to everyone to not mix-up the two different situations, because they are entirely different.

Edited July 3, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

He's Mystery Man...or maybe PT Man...or Man Who Probably Owes Some Back Taxes.

[drand11]

If you are American, and IF you spend more than 30 days in usa per calendar year, you legally owe taxes to IRS for ALL income earned world wide. There are some tax "Equalization tariffs" where if I pay taxes in Canada, Japan etc... I can credit that tax against usa taxes.

[Naam]

If you are American, and IF you spend more than 30 days in usa per calendar year, you legally owe taxes to IRS for ALL income earned world wide. There are some tax "Equalization tariffs" where if I pay taxes in Canada, Japan etc... I can credit that tax against usa taxes.

if you are US citizen and have not visited the US for 25 years you are still liable to pay taxes on your worldwide income except for the amount you earn working abroad which is less than (tax return 2015) $100,800

all other income is taxed!

[Bunnychow]

Hey, my bad, maybe he's Portuguese since he said he's PT. Unless PT means something else like Pregnant Teenager, etc....so many abbreviations and slang now days to sometimes confuse tax issues.

PT = permanent traveller

OK, thanks for that clarification. Now we are back to a EU citizen (specific country unknown at this time) being concerned about the U.S. tax laws for U.S. folks living outside the U.S. That's OK...we all have strange concerns.

Myself I m a non-US citizen myself so nothing here concerns me, but I just had my child born in NY last month, so that's why I m here collecting information on this topic, to be told to my kid later on in life.

Boris Johnson was born in the US to British parents and later in life had hassles from the IRS, even though he hadnt lived in the US since being a child

The "cleanest way" is to give up US citizenship soonest

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

If you are American, and IF you spend more than 30 days in usa per calendar year, you legally owe taxes to IRS for ALL income earned world wide. There are some tax "Equalization tariffs" where if I pay taxes in Canada, Japan etc... I can credit that tax against usa taxes.

What you say above is not correct, in terms of suggesting that being in the U.S. less than 30 days somehow changes your tax obligation.

The 30 days in the U.S. rule pertains to the deadline for filing your U.S. federal tax return -- not how much you owe or what you're taxed on.

If you're in the U.S. LESS than 30 days in a year, then you're able to file two months past the normal deadline, as a recognized expat.

If you're in the U.S. MORE than 30 days in a year, then you're NOT able to file your taxes late, unless you qualify as an expat thru another means.

Either way, as Naam pointed out above, the 30 days in or out of the U.S. doesn't change a U.S. citizen's tax liability for income earned worldwide, except for designated exceptions such as foreign earned income credits, U.S. tax free investments, etc etc.

[Misty]

If you are American, and IF you spend more than 30 days in usa per calendar year, you legally owe taxes to IRS for ALL income earned world wide. There are some tax "Equalization tariffs" where if I pay taxes in Canada, Japan etc... I can credit that tax against usa taxes.

if you are US citizen and have not visited the US for 25 years you are still liable to pay taxes on your worldwide income except for the amount you earn working abroad which is less than (tax return 2015) $100,800

all other income is taxed!

AND you only get the $100,800 foreign earned income exclusion IF you file and claim it. If you don't file and wait until the IRS audits you, you don't get to claim FEIE. It's not an automatic deduction.

[returnofthailand]

be sure to pay your tax (only for americans) , Hillary need your money to fly on airforce 1