House Ownership and Land Ownership.

[Generalchaos]

Does anyone know the law regarding the ownership of a house and the ownership of the land that the house is built on?

i.e. If the original land was purchased in one name, then a house built and registered in the blue Tabian Baan under the same name, then what happens if the land is transferred to another person, within the same family, but no changes have been made to the Tabien Baan?

The land transfer is legal and was done at the land registry, all taxes paid etc.

Does the new owner of the land now legally own the house that was built on it?

My understanding of this is that the house belongs to the land and would automatically be the property of the new land owner, unless some other legal document has been drawn up specifically altering this.

Thanks.

[llso]

That my understanding as well. Here is my story. I built a very nice house for my wife/her family in Issan. Her older sisters husband decides he is going to go work in Taiwan and make lots of money. The companies that do this charge a fee, pay for all visa expense and air ticket. the victim signs a contract to pay it back from his earnings with interest. There had been articles in the newspaper about these scams.

Now them being smarter than everyone else borrow the money from the bank and pay everything upfront. Being they live in a tin shed and have nothing they used the family land ( yep same one big house is built on as collateral). The employment company guarantees the loan. What could go wrong! Well Mr big shot goes to Taiwan and after about 6 months on a 12 month contract they send him home. I think they realized they already had his money and wasn't collecting interest so they let him go and signed up another dupe.Mr. big shot comes back to Thailand with about 20,000 baht. So everyone wants to know what you got so Mr. big shot goes and buys a Sonic little motorbike and rides around the village waving at everyone . look at him big face got a new motorbike. Problem is he still owed the Bank money from the 100K he borrowed Mai pen Rai they just paid the interest every month for a year. At the end of the year the bank called in the loan and the employment agency being the guarantor paid it off and got the deed to the house. The sister goes to pay the interest and they tell her it has been paid off and the BKK company owns the land. My wife call them and they tell her your screwed and hang up on her.

Once I figure out what happened I wanted to let them get kicked out and prove just how stupid they really are. Then I realized that in Thai logic it would have ultimately been my fault for not bailing them our , Right!. The girl that was my director of my company called the agency and explained to them this was a Farangs house and what they did was Illegal and we would report them to the Labor Dept and sue them in court. They agreed to give us the deed back if we paid the money that was owed. They made us bring house papers , marriage certificates, passports they tried to get out of every way. When we went there it was in a neighborhood in BKK no name only a large steel door. WE had to call them on the phone and they met us on the street. we went inside and there was a small sofa and table. The Chinese womnan counted the money went upstairs brought the deed . my girl looked over everything was correct. On
e of the henchmen came down to watch once we had the deed i asked her why would

they loan money 100 lk on a small lsand in village , she replied because it had big house

[Generalchaos]

That my understanding as well. Here is my story. I built a very nice house for my wife/her family in Issan. Her older sisters husband decides he is going to go work in Taiwan and make lots of money. The companies that do this charge a fee, pay for all visa expense and air ticket. the victim signs a contract to pay it back from his earnings with interest. There had been articles in the newspaper about these scams.

Now them being smarter than everyone else borrow the money from the bank and pay everything upfront. Being they live in a tin shed and have nothing they used the family land ( yep same one big house is built on as collateral). The employment company guarantees the loan. What could go wrong! Well Mr big shot goes to Taiwan and after about 6 months on a 12 month contract they send him home. I think they realized they already had his money and wasn't collecting interest so they let him go and signed up another dupe.Mr. big shot comes back to Thailand with about 20,000 baht. So everyone wants to know what you got so Mr. big shot goes and buys a Sonic little motorbike and rides around the village waving at everyone . look at him big face got a new motorbike. Problem is he still owed the Bank money from the 100K he borrowed Mai pen Rai they just paid the interest every month for a year. At the end of the year the bank called in the loan and the employment agency being the guarantor paid it off and got the deed to the house. The sister goes to pay the interest and they tell her it has been paid off and the BKK company owns the land. My wife call them and they tell her your screwed and hang up on her.

Once I figure out what happened I wanted to let them get kicked out and prove just how stupid they really are. Then I realized that in Thai logic it would have ultimately been my fault for not bailing them our , Right!. The girl that was my director of my company called the agency and explained to them this was a Farangs house and what they did was Illegal and we would report them to the Labor Dept and sue them in court. They agreed to give us the deed back if we paid the money that was owed. They made us bring house papers , marriage certificates, passports they tried to get out of every way. When we went there it was in a neighborhood in BKK no name only a large steel door. WE had to call them on the phone and they met us on the street. we went inside and there was a small sofa and table. The Chinese womnan counted the money went upstairs brought the deed . my girl looked over everything was correct. On

e of the henchmen came down to watch once we had the deed i asked her why would

they loan money 100 lk on a small lsand in village , she replied because it had big house

Cheers! Interesting story.

My situation is somewhat similar, where a loan has been guaranteed against some land I paid for.

However, the land was transferred (legally) to my young son years ago, so the chanote is in my possession and has never been handed out to anyone, so the original could never have been used for a guarantee.

This side of it does not really worry me as I am almost certain that the land is safe.

However, I want to try to confirm that when the land was transferred to my son, all property on the land also forms part of the transfer. I imagine it would, but need to be 100% certain.

I do not want to wake up and find someone from the bank dismantling pieces of the house to sell it!

From your post it does seem that the property is part of the land, so that is good news!

Edited June 20, 2016 by Generalchaos

[kannot]

That my understanding as well. Here is my story. I built a very nice house for my wife/her family in Issan. Her older sisters husband decides he is going to go work in Taiwan and make lots of money. The companies that do this charge a fee, pay for all visa expense and air ticket. the victim signs a contract to pay it back from his earnings with interest. There had been articles in the newspaper about these scams.

Now them being smarter than everyone else borrow the money from the bank and pay everything upfront. Being they live in a tin shed and have nothing they used the family land ( yep same one big house is built on as collateral). The employment company guarantees the loan. What could go wrong! Well Mr big shot goes to Taiwan and after about 6 months on a 12 month contract they send him home. I think they realized they already had his money and wasn't collecting interest so they let him go and signed up another dupe.Mr. big shot comes back to Thailand with about 20,000 baht. So everyone wants to know what you got so Mr. big shot goes and buys a Sonic little motorbike and rides around the village waving at everyone . look at him big face got a new motorbike. Problem is he still owed the Bank money from the 100K he borrowed Mai pen Rai they just paid the interest every month for a year. At the end of the year the bank called in the loan and the employment agency being the guarantor paid it off and got the deed to the house. The sister goes to pay the interest and they tell her it has been paid off and the BKK company owns the land. My wife call them and they tell her your screwed and hang up on her.

Once I figure out what happened I wanted to let them get kicked out and prove just how stupid they really are. Then I realized that in Thai logic it would have ultimately been my fault for not bailing them our , Right!. The girl that was my director of my company called the agency and explained to them this was a Farangs house and what they did was Illegal and we would report them to the Labor Dept and sue them in court. They agreed to give us the deed back if we paid the money that was owed. They made us bring house papers , marriage certificates, passports they tried to get out of every way. When we went there it was in a neighborhood in BKK no name only a large steel door. WE had to call them on the phone and they met us on the street. we went inside and there was a small sofa and table. The Chinese womnan counted the money went upstairs brought the deed . my girl looked over everything was correct. On

e of the henchmen came down to watch once we had the deed i asked her why would

they loan money 100 lk on a small lsand in village , she replied because it had big house

im surprised they didnt ask you to remove your house from their land.

[Generalchaos]

That my understanding as well. Here is my story. I built a very nice house for my wife/her family in Issan. Her older sisters husband decides he is going to go work in Taiwan and make lots of money. The companies that do this charge a fee, pay for all visa expense and air ticket. the victim signs a contract to pay it back from his earnings with interest. There had been articles in the newspaper about these scams.

Now them being smarter than everyone else borrow the money from the bank and pay everything upfront. Being they live in a tin shed and have nothing they used the family land ( yep same one big house is built on as collateral). The employment company guarantees the loan. What could go wrong! Well Mr big shot goes to Taiwan and after about 6 months on a 12 month contract they send him home. I think they realized they already had his money and wasn't collecting interest so they let him go and signed up another dupe.Mr. big shot comes back to Thailand with about 20,000 baht. So everyone wants to know what you got so Mr. big shot goes and buys a Sonic little motorbike and rides around the village waving at everyone . look at him big face got a new motorbike. Problem is he still owed the Bank money from the 100K he borrowed Mai pen Rai they just paid the interest every month for a year. At the end of the year the bank called in the loan and the employment agency being the guarantor paid it off and got the deed to the house. The sister goes to pay the interest and they tell her it has been paid off and the BKK company owns the land. My wife call them and they tell her your screwed and hang up on her.

Once I figure out what happened I wanted to let them get kicked out and prove just how stupid they really are. Then I realized that in Thai logic it would have ultimately been my fault for not bailing them our , Right!. The girl that was my director of my company called the agency and explained to them this was a Farangs house and what they did was Illegal and we would report them to the Labor Dept and sue them in court. They agreed to give us the deed back if we paid the money that was owed. They made us bring house papers , marriage certificates, passports they tried to get out of every way. When we went there it was in a neighborhood in BKK no name only a large steel door. WE had to call them on the phone and they met us on the street. we went inside and there was a small sofa and table. The Chinese womnan counted the money went upstairs brought the deed . my girl looked over everything was correct. On

e of the henchmen came down to watch once we had the deed i asked her why would

they loan money 100 lk on a small lsand in village , she replied because it had big house

im surprised they didnt ask you to remove your house from their land.

Believe me, if they tried that, they would not like the response!

The longer you stay here and deal with them, the less you trust them.

In my case, I am smelling a rat! In my opinion and from what I see online, there is no way a guarantee can be made without the original chanote if they want to use it for the loan. As I have the originals, and they are all in someone else's name, then I really do not believe that the loan is via a reputable bank.

So, to be honest, they can go FXXK themselves, if they get their legs broken then up to them, they made the guarantee not me, let them learn Action and Consequence, not something that seems to fit in Thai mentality.

Even if I was to help out to clear the outstanding debt, what would be the point? They haven't paid a penny in 5 months now. I asked if they had resumed payments just to show good intent, no, not a penny. So I clear the debt of 5 months and they don't pay again next month.....back to square one and the repossession of land and home begins again.

As far as I am concerned, let the lender reposes the car, end of story.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Generalchaos

[chiang mai]

The chanotte tells the entire story, look at the back of it and see if there are any registered interests in the land. Tabien Bahns can be misleading, TB's are more about residency than anything else and in many cases are not made current or updated (or even issued) for many many years).

Chanotte for ownership, Tabien Bahn for residency.

[Generalchaos]

The chanotte tells the entire story, look at the back of it and see if there are any registered interests in the land. Tabien Bahns can be misleading, TB's are more about residency than anything else and in many cases are not made current or updated (or even issued) for many many years).

Chanotte for ownership, Tabien Bahn for residency.

Yes,

that is what I thought. The Chanote is in my son's name - no one elses, so any loans guaranteed against that is just BS!

I am calling their bluff tonight, tomorrow I suggested we all have a visit to the Land Registry Office to check the legitimacy of the Chanote to make sure there is nothing loaned against it, then I suggested a visit to the Bank that supposedly gave the loan, they didn't exactly look very happy, so I would imagine there will be some excuse as why this is not a good idea!

Edited June 20, 2016 by Generalchaos

[Generalchaos]

I just received this from a Thai Law Firm!

It puts things into perspective:

A person exercising parental power cannot enter into any of the following juristic acts with regard to the property of the minor except with permission of the Court:

1. Selling, exchanging, sale with right of redemption, letting out property on hire-purchase, mortgaging, releasing mortgage to mortgagor or transferring the right of mortgage on immovable property or on mortgage-able movable property;

2. Extinguishing the whole or a part of real right of the minor on immovable property;

3. Creating servitude, right of inhabitation, right of superficies, usufruct or any charge on immovable property;

4. Disposing of the whole or a part of the claim the purpose of which is to create real right on immovable property or on mortgageable property, or the claim the purpose of which is to have a real right on such property of the minor relieved;

5. Letting immovable property for more than three years;

6. Creating any commitments the purpose of which is to achieve the objective as provided in (1), (2) and (3);

7. Making a loan of money;

8. Making a gift, except out of the income of the minor on the minor’s behalf for charitable, social or moral purposes, and suitable to the minor’s condition in life;

9. Accepting a gift subject to any condition or charge, or refusing a gift;

10. Giving guarantee by any means whatsoever which may cause the minor to be compelled to perform an obligation or to enter into other juristic act, as requiring the minor to perform an obligation to other person or on behalf of other person;

11. Making benefit out of the property other than those provided in Section 1598/4 (1), (2) or (3)

12. Making a compromise;

13. Submitting a dispute to arbitration.

--------

Section 19 of the same Code:

A person, on the completion of twenty years of age ceases to be a minor and become sui juris.

--------

Section 150 of the same Code:

An act is void if its objective is expressly prohibited by law or is impossible, or is contrary to public order or good morals.

--------

Pursuant to Section 1574 Sub-clause 1 and 10, I do not think that your wife will be able to mortgage your son's house except with the permission of the Court.

Pursuant to Section 150, I believe this arrangement is void.

I do not know how it is possible for the bank to accept the minor's property as a security of the mother's debt or a third party's debt. We will need to investigate into this a little deeper prior to providing you any further legal advice.

[chiang mai]

I agree, start with the Land Office and THE REVERSE SIDE OF THE CHANNOTTE, (sorry to shout but important).

Very much agreed also on the actions of a minor.

Please ensure you have reliable independent and trusted language assistance available at your meetings.

Let us know what happens,

[Generalchaos]

Does anyone know where I can pull this law up on the internet in Thai language? It really would make my day!

[Generalchaos]

I agree, start with the Land Office and THE REVERSE SIDE OF THE CHANNOTTE, (sorry to shout but important).

Very much agreed also on the actions of a minor.

Please ensure you have reliable independent and trusted language assistance available at your meetings.

Let us know what happens,

Shout as loud as you like, I am listening! Everything is actually panning out like I thought it would. The Law section 1574 kind of puts it straight. I just want it in Thai so I can rub some noses in their own SH$T Thanks for your reply, appreciated, not easy with legal things here, but if we sort of stick it out we might eventually find our rights instead of getting scammed!

Edited June 20, 2016 by Generalchaos

[chiang mai]

Does anyone know where I can pull this law up on the internet in Thai language? It really would make my day!

I don't and I seriously doubt it will help you very much if at all, nobody will respond or act on it other than a lawyer or the courts.

[Halfaboy]

The following sites contain a wealth of information on Thai laws.

https://www.samuiforsale.com/

and

http://www.thailawonline.com/en/

Good luck !

[Generalchaos]

Does anyone know where I can pull this law up on the internet in Thai language? It really would make my day!

I don't and I seriously doubt it will help you very much if at all, nobody will respond or act on it other than a lawyer or the courts.

I would have thought some of the older hands on here might have been able to provide a link to the section of Thai Law written in Thai script - admittedly, I am struggling!

[chiang mai]

Does anyone know where I can pull this law up on the internet in Thai language? It really would make my day!

I don't and I seriously doubt it will help you very much if at all, nobody will respond or act on it other than a lawyer or the courts.

I would have thought some of the older hands on here might have been able to provide a link to the section of Thai Law written in Thai script - admittedly, I am struggling!

Relax a little, start with the Land Office and see what is said, then please give us an update?

[Generalchaos]

Does anyone know where I can pull this law up on the internet in Thai language? It really would make my day!

I don't and I seriously doubt it will help you very much if at all, nobody will respond or act on it other than a lawyer or the courts.

I would have thought some of the older hands on here might have been able to provide a link to the section of Thai Law written in Thai script - admittedly, I am struggling!

Relax a little, start with the Land Office and see what is said, then please give us an update?

Trouble is, I am not relaxed at all! In fact I am FUMING! When we (I paid for) Bought this land back in 1997, it was mutually agreed that never ever would a loan or guarantee be taken out on this property. It has held good since then, but for some reason the turd of a son from a previous relationship who is in his mid thirties and living with a girl, both working, have defaulted on a loan for a car.

I paid for this place, I paid for the house and all of it was originally in the wife's name, later changed to joint names after my son was born, then later changed to only his name after I started to get a bit worried about how much of their own land they were converting from Chanote to cash.

So forgive me if I am a bit uptight, but there is no way I am footing the bill for a car that her previous family cannot pay for, nor am I willing to sit and watch them mortgage my son's inheritance to pay off that car and any other loan they take out or guarantee!

They borrowed it, they guaranteed it - ( No one from the loan company or bank came and asked for my signature) So they can go and pay it back.

I will not be blackmailed into paying off someone's debt with threats that I am going to have my home repossessed, it won't wash with me!

It is the only thing I am able to leave my son when I am dead and gone, and there is no way these CMMTS are going to rob him of that!

So yes I am a bit angry. But I will guarantee a couple of things, none of their creditors will get their hands on one baht from here that I paid for, I will sell it or torch it first!

[Generalchaos]

And here it is in Thai - Section 1574

http://wichianlaw.blogspot.com/2014/09/1574.html?m=1

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แพ่ง : การทำนิติกรรมที่เกี่ยวกับทรัพย์สินของผู้เยาว์บางประเภท ผู้ใช้อำนาจปกครองจะกระทำมิได้ เว้นแต่ศาลจะอนุญาต ตามมาตรา 1574

ป.พ.พ.มาตรา 1574 นิติกรรมใดอันเกี่ยวกับทรัพย์สินของผู้เยาว์ดังต่อไปนี้ ผู้ใช้อำนาจปกครองจะกระทำมิได้ เว้นแต่ศาลจะอนุญาต
(1) ขาย แลกเปลี่ยน ขายฝาก ให้เช่าซื้อ จำนอง ปลดจำนอง หรือโอนสิทธิจำนอง ซึ่งอสังหาริมทรัพย์หรือสังหาริมทรัพย์ที่อาจจำนองได้
(2) กระทำให้สิ้นสุดลงทั้งหมดหรือบางส่วน ซึ่งทรัพยสิทธิของผู้เยาว์อันเกี่ยวกับอสังหาริมทรัพย์
(3) ก่อตั้งภาระจำยอม สิทธิอาศัย สิทธิเหนือพื้นดิน สิทธิเก็บกิน ภาระติดพันในอสังหาริมทรัพย์ หรือทรัพยสิทธิอื่นใดในอสังหาริมทรัพย์
(4) จำหน่ายไปทั้งหมดหรือบางส่วนซึ่งสิทธิเรียกร้องที่จะให้ได้มาซึ่งทรัพยสิทธิในอสังหาริมทรัพย์ หรือสังหาริมทรัพย์ที่อาจจำนองได้ หรือสิทธิเรียกร้องที่จะให้ทรัพย์สินเช่นว่านั้นของผู้เยาว์ปลอดจากทรัพยสิทธิที่มีอยู่เหนือทรัพย์สินนั้น
(5) ให้เช่าอสังหาริมทรัพย์เกินสามปี
(ุ6) ก่อข้อผูกพันใดๆที่มุ่งให้เกิดผลตาม (1) (2) หรือ (3)
(7) ให้กู้ยืมเงิน
(8) ให้โดยเสน่หา เว้นแต่จะเอาเงินได้ของผู้เยาว์ให้แทนผู้เยาว์เพื่อการกุศลสาธารณะ เพื่อการสังคม หรือตามหน้าที่ธรรมจรรยา ทั้งนี้ พอสมควรแก่ฐานานุรูปของผู้เยาว์
(9) รับการให้โดยเสน่หาที่มีเงื่อนไขหรือค่าภาระติดพัน หรือไม่รับการให้โดยเสน่หา
(10) รับประกันโดยประการใดๆอันอาจมีผลให้ผู้เยาว์ต้องถูกบังคับชำระหนี้หรือทำนิติกรรมอื่นที่มีผลให้ผู้เยาว์ต้องรับเป็นผู้รับชำระหนี้ของบุคคลอื่นหรือแทนบุคคลอื่น
(11) นำทรัพย์สินไปแสวงหาผลประโยชน์นอกจากในกรณีที่บัญญัติไว้มาตรา 1598/4 (1) (2) หรือ (3)
(12) ประนีประนอมยอมความ
(13) มอบข้อพิพาทให้อนุญาโตตุลาการวินิจฉัย

การทำนิติกรรมใดๆเกี่ยวกับทรัพย์สินของผู้เยาว์นั้น โดยหลักแล้วผู้ใช้อำนาจปกครองสามารถทำได้ ยกเว้นกรณีที่บัญญัติไว้ในมาตรา 1574 จะต้องได้รับอนุญาตจากศาลก่อนจึงจะทำได้ หากกระทำนิติกรรมอันเป็นการฝ่าฝืนมาตรา 1574 นิติกรรมนั้นก็ไม่มีผลผูกพันผู้เยาว์

ตัวอย่าง
นาย ว.มีชื่อเป็นผู้ถือกรรมสิทธิ์ในที่ดินพิพาทแทนนาย ย.กับนาง ส. ซึ่งเป็นบิดามารดา นาย ย.กับนาง ส.จึงเป็นเจ้าของกรรมสิทธิ์ในที่ดินพิพาทตลอดมา เมื่อนาย ย.กับนาง ส.ถึงแก่ความตาย ที่ดินพิพาทย่อมตกเป็นทรัพย์มรดกของนาย ย.กับนาง ส.ซึ่งตกทอดแก่ทายาทโดยธรรมของบุคคลทั้งสองรวมทั้งนาย ว.ซึ่งเป็นบุตรชายด้วย ต่่อมาได้มีการตั้งผู้จัดการมรดกของนาย ย.กับนาง ส.ตามคำสั่งศาล หลังจากนั้นต่อมา นาย ว.ซึ่งเป็นทายาทได้ถึงแก่ความตาย มรดกของนาย ว.จึงตกทอดแก่จำเลยที่ 1 ซึ่งเป็นทายาทชั้นบุตร(ผู้เยาว์)และจำเลยที่ 2 ซึ่งเป็นภริยา หลังจากนั้นต่อมา ได้มีการทำข้อตกลงแบ่งปันทรัพย์มรดก ระหว่างผู้จัดการมรดกกับจำเลยที่ 2 เมื่อวันที่ 7 มิถุนายน 2545 ตามบันทึกข้อตกลงแบ่งปันทรัพย์มรดก ข้อ 4 กำหนดว่า ทั้งสองฝ่ายตกลงกันว่า ที่ดินตามโฉนดเลขที่ 73 เลขที่ีดิน 155 ตำบลเมืองพล อำเภอพล จังหวัดขอนแก่น ซึ่งเป็นที่ดินพิพาท ซึ่งเป็นมรดกของเจ้ามรดกให้ตกเป็นกรรมสิทธิ์ของทายาทนาย ว.ซึ่งในวันทำบันทึกนี้ผู้จัดการมรดกได้มอบโฉนดให้แก่ทายาทของนาย ว.ไปเรียบร้อยแล้ว
กรณีนี้ มีปัญหาขึ้นเมื่อทายาทบางคนนำมาฟ้องเป็นคดีขอให้เพิกถอนนิติกรรมการแบ่งปันทรัพย์มรดกดังกล่าว โดยอ้างว่า จำเลยที่ 2 ทำบันทึกข้อตกลงแบ่งปันทรัพย์มรดก ซึ่งมีลักษณะเป็นสัญญาประนีประนอมยอมความแทนจำเลยที่ 1 ซึ่งเป็นผู้เยาว์โดยไม่ได้รับอนุญาตจากศาล ตามมาตรา 1574(12) มีผลทำให้บันทึกที่ทำขึ้นตกเป็นโมฆะทั้งหมด ที่สุดศาลได้มีคำวินิจฉัยว่า แม้บันทึกข้อตกลงแบ่งปันทรัพย์มรดก จะมีลักษณะเป็นสัญญาประนีประนอมยอมความตามมาตรา 1574(12) ที่ผู้แทนโดยชอบธรรมจะกระทำแทนผู้เยาว์ไม่ได้ เว้นแต่ศาลจะอนุญาตและจำเลยที่ 2 กระทำบันทึกดังกล่าวแทนบุตรผู้เยาว์โดยไม่ได้ขออนุญาตศาลอันเป็นการฝ่าฝืนต่อบทบัญญัติดังกล่าวก็ตาม แต่การขออนุญาตศาลหรือไม่ ไม่ใช่แบบของนิติกรรม และกฎหมายก็มิได้บัญญัติไว้โดยชัดแจ้งว่าให้นิติกรรมที่ฝ่าฝืนบทบัญญัติดังกล่าวเป็นโมฆะกรรม ทั้งการที่กฎหมายบัญญัติให้ผู้แทนโดยชอบธรรมทำนิติกรรมเกี่ยวกับทรัพย์สินของผู้เยาว์ตามมาตรา 1574 ไม่ได้ เว้นแต่ศาลอนุญาตนั้น เป็นเจตนารมย์ของกฎหมายที่ประสงค์ให้ศาลเป็นผู้กำกับดูแลผลประโยชน์ส่วนได้เสียของผู้เยาว์ โดยดูแลให้ผู้แทนโดยชอบธรรมปฏิบัติหน้าที่ของตนตามที่กฎหมายบัญญัติไว้เพื่อประโยชน์ของผู้เยาว์อย่างถูกต้องแท้จริงเท่านั้น นิติกรรมที่ฝ่าฝืนบทบัญญัติดังกล่าวจึงไม่ถึงขนาดตกเป็นโมฆะกรรม คงมีผลเพียงไม่ผูกพันผู้เยาว์ที่บทบัญญัติของกฎหมายดังกล่าวมุ่งประสงค์ที่จะคุ้มครองเท่านั้น..... และเมื่อบันทึกดังกล่าวไม่ตกเป็นโมฆะอันจะทำให้ผู้มีส่วนได้เสียคนหนึ่งคนใดก็สามารถยกความเสียเปล่าแห่งโมฆะกรรมขึ้นกล่าวอ้างได้ ตามบทบัญญัติ มาตรา 172 วรรคหนึ่ง แห่งประมวลกฎหมายแพ่งและพาณิชย์ แต่มีผลเพียงไม่ผูกพันจำเลยที่ 1 ซึ่งเป็นผู้เยาว์เพื่อปกป้องคุ้มครองผลประโยชน์ของผู้เยาว์....จึงเป็นเรื่องที่จำเลยที่ 1 เท่านั้นที่ยกการฝ่าฝืนบทบัญญัติดังกล่าวขึ้นกล่าวอ้างเพื่อมิให้ตนต้องผูกพันตามบันทึกดังกล่าวได้ ดังนั้น โจทก์ซึ่งเป็นบุคคลภายนอกย่อมไม่มีสิทธิที่จะยกขึ้นกล่าวอ้างเพื่อเพิกถอนบันทึกข้อตกลงแบ่งปันทรัพย์มรดกได้....
สรุปว่า กรณีที่ผู้ใช้อำนาจปกครองจะกระทำนิติกรรมแทนผู้เยาว์นั้น หากนิติกรรมนั้นเป็นกรณีตามมาตรา 1574 แล้ว จะต้องได้รับอนุญาตจากศาลก่อน หากฝ่าฝืนมาตรา 1574 นิติกรรมนั้นย่อมไม่มีผลผูกพันผู้เยาว์ แต่ไม่ใช่เรื่องโมฆะกรรม ดังนั้น เฉพาะผู้เยาว์เท่านั้นที่จะยกการฝ่าฝืนมาตรา 1574 ขึ้นกล่าวอ้างเพื่อมิให้ตนต้องผูกพันตามนิติกรรมดังกล่าว บุคคลอื่นไม่มีสิทธิยกเหตุดังกล่าวขึ้นอ้าง

(คำพิพากษาศาลฎีกาที่ 6838/2555)

[scorecard]

The following sites contain a wealth of information on Thai laws.

https://www.samuiforsale.com/

and

http://www.thailawonline.com/en/

Good luck !

Thanks for the links. I'm interested if and TV members have had any dealings / experience in the following point;

Imagine a situation that any property held by the family is recorded officially (chanut) in the fathers sole name and the contract to build the completed house on that land is in the fathers name.

In terms of inheritance (section 1629) seems to indicate that on the death of the father the children of that father are seen in two possible groups:

- Full blood children, and

- Half blood children.

The situation I have concern about is a case where the child of the said father from a previous wife (now divorced) is resident with the father and his new wife, plus there are children resident from the new wife.

Section 1629 seems to indicate that any child from a previous wife is not entitled to any inheritance at all.

Anybody had any actual experience with is situation?

Please people I'm not interested in comments on what's fair or unfair or 'should be' stuff, just sharing of any actual experiences please.

Thank you.

[Generalchaos]

The following sites contain a wealth of information on Thai laws.

https://www.samuiforsale.com/

and

http://www.thailawonline.com/en/

Good luck !

Thanks for the links. I'm interested if and TV members have had any dealings / experience in the following point;

Imagine a situation that any property held by the family is recorded officially (chanut) in the fathers sole name and the contract to build the completed house on that land is in the fathers name.

In terms of inheritance (section 1629) seems to indicate that on the death of the father the children of that father are seen in two possible groups:

- Full blood children, and

- Half blood children.

The situation I have concern about is a case where the child of the said father from a previous wife (now divorced) is resident with the father and his new wife, plus there are children resident from the new wife.

Section 1629 seems to indicate that any child from a previous wife is not entitled to any inheritance at all.

Anybody had any actual experience with is situation?

Please people I'm not interested in comments on what's fair or unfair or 'should be' stuff, just sharing of any actual experiences please.

Thank you.

The child from the first wife (Even if not legally married) will get a share, this happened in our distant family. The first (original wife got nothing) the second wife took everything that wasn't nailed down, but qwhen she tried to sell the land that was in the dead fathers name, the land office refused and it was handed over reluctantly to the first born son. (Thai law - when actually put into practice is quite fair and sensible)

[scorecard]

The following sites contain a wealth of information on Thai laws.

https://www.samuiforsale.com/

and

http://www.thailawonline.com/en/

Good luck !

Thanks for the links. I'm interested if and TV members have had any dealings / experience in the following point;

Imagine a situation that any property held by the family is recorded officially (chanut) in the fathers sole name and the contract to build the completed house on that land is in the fathers name.

In terms of inheritance (section 1629) seems to indicate that on the death of the father the children of that father are seen in two possible groups:

- Full blood children, and

- Half blood children.

The situation I have concern about is a case where the child of the said father from a previous wife (now divorced) is resident with the father and his new wife, plus there are children resident from the new wife.

Section 1629 seems to indicate that any child from a previous wife is not entitled to any inheritance at all.

Anybody had any actual experience with is situation?

Please people I'm not interested in comments on what's fair or unfair or 'should be' stuff, just sharing of any actual experiences please.

Thank you.

The child from the first wife (Even if not legally married) will get a share, this happened in our distant family. The first (original wife got nothing) the second wife took everything that wasn't nailed down, but qwhen she tried to sell the land that was in the dead fathers name, the land office refused and it was handed over reluctantly to the first born son. (Thai law - when actually put into practice is quite fair and sensible)

Thanks for that information.

The case I'm referring to has a twist of 'the wife' scenario you mentioned.

The second wife in this case is quite reasonable but both her elder sister and elder brother are vicious.

The Thai man concerned has taken very good care of his first child from day one, the mother just wasn't interested and they divorced. The father kept the child and has been a very good father. He re-married and his second wife was very willing to fully accept the first child and take care of her and that part of the scenario is quite good. Second wife has since had two children and all 3 kids are well taken care of by both husband and wife.

But, the wife's elder brother and elder sister have been very active to prevent the step-mother to the man's first child from officially adopting the first child, they are very old style country folks locked into all sorts of superstitions etc., and they claim that if the step-mother adopts the first child then the whole family (wife's extended family) will suffer severe bad luck and accidents and death as punishment. They also clearly want a piece of the pie.

Several times the father involved has thrown his wife's elder brother-in-law and sister-in-law out of his house because they tried forcefully to remove his first child now taken care of by his second wife.

The elder brother-in-law and sister-in-law also claim that the sister (the wife here) is automatically the owner of the land and house upon marriage (they know the law about everything they make up the law continuously as needed to fit their intent). The chanut for the sizeable land and good house is in the husbands name (husband only).

The elder brother-in-law and sister-in-law have mentioned many times that when the husband dies:

- They will instantly take the first child to the police and claim she has been violent to the other members of the family (totally untrue) and tell the police to lock her up forever (they know the law about everything they make up the law continuously as needed to fit their intent, and they claim that the village head man can order the police to do this).

- They will instruct the wife (who is frightened of them) to have the land re-zoned so that they both get a one third share of the land.

The husband is currently getting further professional legal advice about the best way to adjust his will to seriously protect all his 3 kids and wife and ensure they all get an equal share of his estate.

He's already discarded the first lawyer when he discovered the legal advice given was clearly incorrect.

[Robert24]

That my understanding as well. Here is my story. I built a very nice house for my wife/her family in Issan. Her older sisters husband decides he is going to go work in Taiwan and make lots of money. The companies that do this charge a fee, pay for all visa expense and air ticket. the victim signs a contract to pay it back from his earnings with interest. There had been articles in the newspaper about these scams.

Now them being smarter than everyone else borrow the money from the bank and pay everything upfront. Being they live in a tin shed and have nothing they used the family land ( yep same one big house is built on as collateral). The employment company guarantees the loan. What could go wrong! Well Mr big shot goes to Taiwan and after about 6 months on a 12 month contract they send him home. I think they realized they already had his money and wasn't collecting interest so they let him go and signed up another dupe.Mr. big shot comes back to Thailand with about 20,000 baht. So everyone wants to know what you got so Mr. big shot goes and buys a Sonic little motorbike and rides around the village waving at everyone . look at him big face got a new motorbike. Problem is he still owed the Bank money from the 100K he borrowed Mai pen Rai they just paid the interest every month for a year. At the end of the year the bank called in the loan and the employment agency being the guarantor paid it off and got the deed to the house. The sister goes to pay the interest and they tell her it has been paid off and the BKK company owns the land. My wife call them and they tell her your screwed and hang up on her.

Once I figure out what happened I wanted to let them get kicked out and prove just how stupid they really are. Then I realized that in Thai logic it would have ultimately been my fault for not bailing them our , Right!. The girl that was my director of my company called the agency and explained to them this was a Farangs house and what they did was Illegal and we would report them to the Labor Dept and sue them in court. They agreed to give us the deed back if we paid the money that was owed. They made us bring house papers , marriage certificates, passports they tried to get out of every way. When we went there it was in a neighborhood in BKK no name only a large steel door. WE had to call them on the phone and they met us on the street. we went inside and there was a small sofa and table. The Chinese womnan counted the money went upstairs brought the deed . my girl looked over everything was correct. On

e of the henchmen came down to watch once we had the deed i asked her why would

they loan money 100 lk on a small lsand in village , she replied because it had big house

thanks for sharing your experience. I think there must be a few things missing:

1) for the bank to issue the loan against the land as security, the bank will want to register the loan at the land office. In order to do so, the current owner must be present and sign the chanote over as security and register the detail of the loan with the land office. The land office will record the security on the back of the chanote and issue a separate document outlining the loan agreement, I.e. Who gives loan, who takes loan, principal etc.

so in your case whoever is the owner of the land, would have done this and be legally person who took the loan from the bank.

2) in the loan document from the land office, it will be marked whether it is just land or land AND house. All officially registered at the land office.

3) if you don't pay back the loan to the bank, the bank would at least send you 2 registered letters saying/warning you have to pay back the loan before they would approach a court. Once the case is in court, you will be invited to represent yourself in court at least 3 times until a court would decide to change ownership to the bank. Can easily take 2 years.

4) once the bank is legally the owner, the guarantee can be looked into and then proceeded accordingly. Likely to be a separate legal case between those 2 parties.

[khunPer]

OP asks: »...If the original land was purchased in one name, then a house built and registered in the blue Tabian Baan under the same name, then what happens if the land is transferred to another person, within the same family, but no changes have been made to the Tabien Baan?«

The Blue House Book is not a proof of ownership, but proof of who lives in the house. One name can be "master of house", but that does not state ownership, merely who shall approve names to be added to the House Book.

I have same understanding as OP, that normally the house follows the land, if not other documentation proves different, i.e. "Superficies" document or Land Lease Agreement, noted as servitude on back of Land Tittle Deed at Land Office; transfer of land shall normally respect these servitudes.

It's said that a House can be registered as separate ownership at Land Office (I'm not familiar with the procedure); however ownership documentation for a new-build house cannot be registered and proof shall be a variety of documents with owners name only, such as: Building Permissin with permission from Land Owner; architect drawings; building constructor agreement or contract(s); all money transfer to building constructor; variety of individual bills or other construction agreements, etc.

[gyrosman]

Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice shame on me. AND being foolish, well, good luck

[ozyjon]

No problem, move house.

[llso]

That my understanding as well. Here is my story. I built a very nice house for my wife/her family in Issan. Her older sisters husband decides he is going to go work in Taiwan and make lots of money. The companies that do this charge a fee, pay for all visa expense and air ticket. the victim signs a contract to pay it back from his earnings with interest. There had been articles in the newspaper about these scams.

Now them being smarter than everyone else borrow the money from the bank and pay everything upfront. Being they live in a tin shed and have nothing they used the family land ( yep same one big house is built on as collateral). The employment company guarantees the loan. What could go wrong! Well Mr big shot goes to Taiwan and after about 6 months on a 12 month contract they send him home. I think they realized they already had his money and wasn't collecting interest so they let him go and signed up another dupe.Mr. big shot comes back to Thailand with about 20,000 baht. So everyone wants to know what you got so Mr. big shot goes and buys a Sonic little motorbike and rides around the village waving at everyone . look at him big face got a new motorbike. Problem is he still owed the Bank money from the 100K he borrowed Mai pen Rai they just paid the interest every month for a year. At the end of the year the bank called in the loan and the employment agency being the guarantor paid it off and got the deed to the house. The sister goes to pay the interest and they tell her it has been paid off and the BKK company owns the land. My wife call them and they tell her your screwed and hang up on her.

Once I figure out what happened I wanted to let them get kicked out and prove just how stupid they really are. Then I realized that in Thai logic it would have ultimately been my fault for not bailing them our , Right!. The girl that was my director of my company called the agency and explained to them this was a Farangs house and what they did was Illegal and we would report them to the Labor Dept and sue them in court. They agreed to give us the deed back if we paid the money that was owed. They made us bring house papers , marriage certificates, passports they tried to get out of every way. When we went there it was in a neighborhood in BKK no name only a large steel door. WE had to call them on the phone and they met us on the street. we went inside and there was a small sofa and table. The Chinese womnan counted the money went upstairs brought the deed . my girl looked over everything was correct. On

e of the henchmen came down to watch once we had the deed i asked her why would

they loan money 100 lk on a small lsand in village , she replied because it had big house

thanks for sharing your experience. I think there must be a few things missing:

1) for the bank to issue the loan against the land as security, the bank will want to register the loan at the land office. In order to do so, the current owner must be present and sign the chanote over as security and register the detail of the loan with the land office. The land office will record the security on the back of the chanote and issue a separate document outlining the loan agreement, I.e. Who gives loan, who takes loan, principal etc.

so in your case whoever is the owner of the land, would have done this and be legally person who took the loan from the bank.

2) in the loan document from the land office, it will be marked whether it is just land or land AND house. All officially registered at the land office.

3) if you don't pay back the loan to the bank, the bank would at least send you 2 registered letters saying/warning you have to pay back the loan before they would approach a court. Once the case is in court, you will be invited to represent yourself in court at least 3 times until a court would decide to change ownership to the bank. Can easily take 2 years.

4) once the bank is legally the owner, the guarantee can be looked into and then proceeded accordingly. Likely to be a separate legal case between those 2 parties.

Apparently my wife did sign something I presume for the house. They all thought that the job offer and everything was mai pen rai. That is until something goes wrong. The land was actually in her mothers name. That's why the Company wanted the Mother's ID Card.

The Bank did send letters but to the house and we were not living there

However since the employment company guaranteed the loan as a co signer they were able to pay it off and then get the deed.

Once I got the deed back I went there and demanded that the Mother sign the land over to my wife, So they could not repeat the process. The Mother him and hawed that the land was inheritance for all of the children. My wife her two sisters and a brother in BKK who had a good job who didn't want anything. I pointed out

that I wouldn't pay twice for the land as I paid off the loan for them. The sister husband got the motorbike with money he should have paid on his loan. The other sister wanted her share and I politely told her to get the money from her sister because her share bought them a motorbike. The Mother relented and signed the land over to my wife which we paid all of the fees. The middle sister is still resentful that she got nothing.

[Generalchaos]

When it comes to family and money, it does not matter one little bit how much you agree on things beforehand, when the Sh^t hits the fan, you will be the one that doesn't smell like a rose!

If there is one single piece of advice I could ever pass on to anyone coming here and getting involved with a Thai - GET A LEGAL PRE NUP! Pay 5-10K Baht for a good lawyer to draft it up, it will be the best thing you ever did, if you sit back and just trust them, it will be the worst thing you never did!

At the end of the day, you are a source of income, they may have married you and had their kids with you, but by God when it comes down to cold hard cash and their blood family, you won't even rank up their with the lizard on the wall!

I had been lucky for over 16 years, never a cheat or a lie, but then one day.......when the chips are down and they are really furked....you become the sacrifice!

Luckily, I got that very good advice from Siam Law, otherwise I might have just fallen into the trap.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Generalchaos

[Robert24]

That my understanding as well. Here is my story. I built a very nice house for my wife/her family in Issan. Her older sisters husband decides he is going to go work in Taiwan and make lots of money. The companies that do this charge a fee, pay for all visa expense and air ticket. the victim signs a contract to pay it back from his earnings with interest. There had been articles in the newspaper about these scams.

Now them being smarter than everyone else borrow the money from the bank and pay everything upfront. Being they live in a tin shed and have nothing they used the family land ( yep same one big house is built on as collateral). The employment company guarantees the loan. What could go wrong! Well Mr big shot goes to Taiwan and after about 6 months on a 12 month contract they send him home. I think they realized they already had his money and wasn't collecting interest so they let him go and signed up another dupe.Mr. big shot comes back to Thailand with about 20,000 baht. So everyone wants to know what you got so Mr. big shot goes and buys a Sonic little motorbike and rides around the village waving at everyone . look at him big face got a new motorbike. Problem is he still owed the Bank money from the 100K he borrowed Mai pen Rai they just paid the interest every month for a year. At the end of the year the bank called in the loan and the employment agency being the guarantor paid it off and got the deed to the house. The sister goes to pay the interest and they tell her it has been paid off and the BKK company owns the land. My wife call them and they tell her your screwed and hang up on her.

Once I figure out what happened I wanted to let them get kicked out and prove just how stupid they really are. Then I realized that in Thai logic it would have ultimately been my fault for not bailing them our , Right!. The girl that was my director of my company called the agency and explained to them this was a Farangs house and what they did was Illegal and we would report them to the Labor Dept and sue them in court. They agreed to give us the deed back if we paid the money that was owed. They made us bring house papers , marriage certificates, passports they tried to get out of every way. When we went there it was in a neighborhood in BKK no name only a large steel door. WE had to call them on the phone and they met us on the street. we went inside and there was a small sofa and table. The Chinese womnan counted the money went upstairs brought the deed . my girl looked over everything was correct. On

e of the henchmen came down to watch once we had the deed i asked her why would

they loan money 100 lk on a small lsand in village , she replied because it had big house

thanks for sharing your experience. I think there must be a few things missing:

1) for the bank to issue the loan against the land as security, the bank will want to register the loan at the land office. In order to do so, the current owner must be present and sign the chanote over as security and register the detail of the loan with the land office. The land office will record the security on the back of the chanote and issue a separate document outlining the loan agreement, I.e. Who gives loan, who takes loan, principal etc.

so in your case whoever is the owner of the land, would have done this and be legally person who took the loan from the bank.

2) in the loan document from the land office, it will be marked whether it is just land or land AND house. All officially registered at the land office.

3) if you don't pay back the loan to the bank, the bank would at least send you 2 registered letters saying/warning you have to pay back the loan before they would approach a court. Once the case is in court, you will be invited to represent yourself in court at least 3 times until a court would decide to change ownership to the bank. Can easily take 2 years.

4) once the bank is legally the owner, the guarantee can be looked into and then proceeded accordingly. Likely to be a separate legal case between those 2 parties.

Apparently my wife did sign something I presume for the house. They all thought that the job offer and everything was mai pen rai. That is until something goes wrong. The land was actually in her mothers name. That's why the Company wanted the Mother's ID Card.

The Bank did send letters but to the house and we were not living there

However since the employment company guaranteed the loan as a co signer they were able to pay it off and then get the deed.

Once I got the deed back I went there and demanded that the Mother sign the land over to my wife, So they could not repeat the process. The Mother him and hawed that the land was inheritance for all of the children. My wife her two sisters and a brother in BKK who had a good job who didn't want anything. I pointed out

that I wouldn't pay twice for the land as I paid off the loan for them. The sister husband got the motorbike with money he should have paid on his loan. The other sister wanted her share and I politely told her to get the money from her sister because her share bought them a motorbike. The Mother relented and signed the land over to my wife which we paid all of the fees. The middle sister is still resentful that she got nothing.

I'm sure everything was done correctly at the land office. The mother went there and signed the chanote over as security.

my recommendation is to be present in all steps. People tell you all kind of stories, often because they don't know better, make assumptions, presume what other people say is correct.

Bottom line is any bank will register their loans at the land office and all parties have to be present and sign. And a repossession of a bank is a lengthy process that a court needs to approve and they give the owner of the house ample time to repay the loan.

[Generalchaos]

The chanotte tells the entire story, look at the back of it and see if there are any registered interests in the land. Tabien Bahns can be misleading, TB's are more about residency than anything else and in many cases are not made current or updated (or even issued) for many many years).

Chanotte for ownership, Tabien Bahn for residency.

Indeed, you are 100% correct! I took the Chanotes to the land office today and they looked up whatever they look up on their Windows XP computers and it seems like there is nothing like a lien or debt against my kids land details.

The guarantee of the chanote is just BS!

It looks to me that they have used a photocopy of a chanote or two to guarantee some loan with someone not quite as legit as a bank, now they haven't paid and the loan is getting called in and they tried to scare me into paying it off to prevent me losing the land and house, well they can go FURK! Bring it on, they have no legal claim on anything here, the best they will get is a middle finger, the next will be a 9mm hole in the head, not in one million years will i bow to these sharks, i'd rather put a few in the ground and end up there too if it comes to it.

They cannot touch a thing on our land or home!

Let them go and reposes the damn car that the retard son bought! It appears that he is contemplating suicide if they take the car (He has hidden it - be better if he doesn't use a hose from the exhaust as the interior may smell)....again...up to them...bring it on!

Besides, I have more important things to worry about, how to get Linux running on Hyper V!

Edited June 21, 2016 by Generalchaos

[theguyfromanotherforum]

That my understanding as well. Here is my story. I built a very nice house for my wife/her family in Issan. Her older sisters husband decides he is going to go work in Taiwan and make lots of money. The companies that do this charge a fee, pay for all visa expense and air ticket. the victim signs a contract to pay it back from his earnings with interest. There had been articles in the newspaper about these scams.

Now them being smarter than everyone else borrow the money from the bank and pay everything upfront. Being they live in a tin shed and have nothing they used the family land ( yep same one big house is built on as collateral). The employment company guarantees the loan. What could go wrong! Well Mr big shot goes to Taiwan and after about 6 months on a 12 month contract they send him home. I think they realized they already had his money and wasn't collecting interest so they let him go and signed up another dupe.Mr. big shot comes back to Thailand with about 20,000 baht. So everyone wants to know what you got so Mr. big shot goes and buys a Sonic little motorbike and rides around the village waving at everyone . look at him big face got a new motorbike. Problem is he still owed the Bank money from the 100K he borrowed Mai pen Rai they just paid the interest every month for a year. At the end of the year the bank called in the loan and the employment agency being the guarantor paid it off and got the deed to the house. The sister goes to pay the interest and they tell her it has been paid off and the BKK company owns the land. My wife call them and they tell her your screwed and hang up on her.

Once I figure out what happened I wanted to let them get kicked out and prove just how stupid they really are. Then I realized that in Thai logic it would have ultimately been my fault for not bailing them our , Right!. The girl that was my director of my company called the agency and explained to them this was a Farangs house and what they did was Illegal and we would report them to the Labor Dept and sue them in court. They agreed to give us the deed back if we paid the money that was owed. They made us bring house papers , marriage certificates, passports they tried to get out of every way. When we went there it was in a neighborhood in BKK no name only a large steel door. WE had to call them on the phone and they met us on the street. we went inside and there was a small sofa and table. The Chinese womnan counted the money went upstairs brought the deed . my girl looked over everything was correct. On

e of the henchmen came down to watch once we had the deed i asked her why would

they loan money 100 lk on a small lsand in village , she replied because it had big house

Are you sure the Thai man who went to Taiwan was stupid or is it perhaps the farang that builds a house for his wife?

Just sayin'

[Generalchaos]

That my understanding as well. Here is my story. I built a very nice house for my wife/her family in Issan. Her older sisters husband decides he is going to go work in Taiwan and make lots of money. The companies that do this charge a fee, pay for all visa expense and air ticket. the victim signs a contract to pay it back from his earnings with interest. There had been articles in the newspaper about these scams.

Now them being smarter than everyone else borrow the money from the bank and pay everything upfront. Being they live in a tin shed and have nothing they used the family land ( yep same one big house is built on as collateral). The employment company guarantees the loan. What could go wrong! Well Mr big shot goes to Taiwan and after about 6 months on a 12 month contract they send him home. I think they realized they already had his money and wasn't collecting interest so they let him go and signed up another dupe.Mr. big shot comes back to Thailand with about 20,000 baht. So everyone wants to know what you got so Mr. big shot goes and buys a Sonic little motorbike and rides around the village waving at everyone . look at him big face got a new motorbike. Problem is he still owed the Bank money from the 100K he borrowed Mai pen Rai they just paid the interest every month for a year. At the end of the year the bank called in the loan and the employment agency being the guarantor paid it off and got the deed to the house. The sister goes to pay the interest and they tell her it has been paid off and the BKK company owns the land. My wife call them and they tell her your screwed and hang up on her.

Once I figure out what happened I wanted to let them get kicked out and prove just how stupid they really are. Then I realized that in Thai logic it would have ultimately been my fault for not bailing them our , Right!. The girl that was my director of my company called the agency and explained to them this was a Farangs house and what they did was Illegal and we would report them to the Labor Dept and sue them in court. They agreed to give us the deed back if we paid the money that was owed. They made us bring house papers , marriage certificates, passports they tried to get out of every way. When we went there it was in a neighborhood in BKK no name only a large steel door. WE had to call them on the phone and they met us on the street. we went inside and there was a small sofa and table. The Chinese womnan counted the money went upstairs brought the deed . my girl looked over everything was correct. On

e of the henchmen came down to watch once we had the deed i asked her why would

they loan money 100 lk on a small lsand in village , she replied because it had big house

Are you sure the Thai man who went to Taiwan was stupid or is it perhaps the farang that builds a house for his wife?

Just sayin'

Stay here long enough, you will get shafted too!

Too many foreigners expect the same level of intelligence and decency, some expect the same level of trust, everyone can make a mistake, everyone can give the benefit of the doubt, and anyone can get ripped off! Don't throw stones in glass houses, it could happen to you too!