Little England and not-so-Great-Britain

[Jip99]

Please do not include Scotland in your UK generalisation.

We are just as patriotic, perhaps even more so, about our country as the English are about theirs but, unlike the English, most of us also consider ourselves European and have been so for hundreds of years.

It is possible to be patriotic without being xenophobic!

Scots have considered themselves European for hundreds of years? Really?

Looking at the Jacobites, I think you are confusing religious bigotry with any fervor to be seen as anything European.

The Clearances created the perpetual Scots diaspora but they didn't exactly flee the glens to settle down in Strasbourg either.

Before that, the whole concept of Europe didn't exist. It didn't get much truck in the 21st Century Scotland either until the SNP were hoist by their own petard and now embarrassingly clamor for some form of EU salvation.

Scots are inherent bigots; it's in our nature to be.

The Scots have deeper roots in the South East Asia trade routes than they do with Europe.

[MissAndry]

The urge to destroy can be contagious

You could be correct.

Frexit, Nexit or Oexit? Who will be next to leave the EU

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/27/frexit-nexit-or-oexit-who-will-be-next-to-leave-the-eu

Left wing newspaper claims everyone else will stay in by 3% majority.

Left wing newspaper claims stupid people with poor education vote to leave.

Am I the only one smelling a rat?

[SgtRock]

Left wing newspaper claims everyone else will stay in by 3% majority.

Left wing newspaper claims stupid people with poor education vote to leave.

Am I the only one smelling a rat?

Nicolas Sarkozy

He told a rally last month: “It wasn’t that long ago that when we talked about immigration, identity and removing citizenship we were called fascists. But minds have changed, the masses are rising, the people are standing up and they are saying louder and louder: ‘Enough is enough.’”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/01/nicolas-sarkozy-france-brexit-vote-boosts-presidential-hopes

[awayego]

Great Britain has always been little, but we are Great because we can fight, explore, do stuff. Back in '39 an unprepared little Britain came to the aid of many against a well prepared war machine attacking little countries. It is in our genes to try....

The EU thing is just Brits showing when enough is enough....

I think you do a great disservice to conveniently forget the large number of Poles, Canadians, Aussies, Kiwis, Free French, and many other nationalities who not only helped defend GB during the Battle of Britain but who "came to the aid of many . . ." until the US joined in.

I started reading from bottom to the top. The first sentence (from the bottom) has always been enough for me. the rest is just icing on the cake so to speak.

To the OP stop winging. The UK people do not see themselves as European but from the UK. Its called patriotism. They are proud of their identity and have seen this dwindled away since joining the EU. This was an opportunity to get our identity back. Now deal with it.

Please do not include Scotland in your UK generalisation.

We are just as patriotic, perhaps even more so, about our country as the English are about theirs but, unlike the English, most of us also consider ourselves European and have been so for hundreds of years.

It is possible to be patriotic without being xenophobic!

For a nation that hates the English, I don't think you should be using words like xenophobic!

EVERYBODY hates the English so it's normal NOT xenophobic!

Seriously though, yes, there has always been animosity between us - understandable on our part given our history with the English!

But, honestly, I think our relationship can only be better and friendlier with Scottish Independence.

Better still, as has been suggested in another thread, why doesn't England have a referendum for English Independence and go all the way with the Little England thing.

[happy Joe]

The urge to destroy can be contagious

You could be correct.

Frexit, Nexit or Oexit? Who will be next to leave the EU

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/27/frexit-nexit-or-oexit-who-will-be-next-to-leave-the-eu

If you think the French, Italians and Dutch will accompany you in the shit you are very wrong.

The example Brexit had for other countries in Europe under a magic deterrent.

Today the discourse of protectionism, demagogic and xenopbobe is challenged everywhere in view of the catastrophe recorded in UK and is far from over. In France, for example, supporters of a Franxit that were slightly earlier stages majority not now count about 30% of voters, and as in UK , mainly the old, the poor and the uneducated.

Better, Marine Le Pen, representative far right lost first place favorable opinions yet she held for years.

The populist discourse has just obtained its first concrete results in a developed country. And I beg you to believe that this new model does not want anyone

[NanLaew]

48% didn't and probably a lot more are now regretting their out vote, comes from listening to lies,NHS contributions,being able to stop immigration, we will be better off financially etc,voting from the heart and not with the grey matter

Whether these people are regretting or not (which I doubt), the decision to leave is final. Just because you voted different to the majority, it does not make you right, infact I would suggest it makes you wrong.

I didn't vote,i wasn't allowed to. Who was right or wrong will be seen in about 6 months time when the markets decide,not the voters.

The FTSE is at it's highest level since 2011, looks like the market already has.

FTSE is at its highest level since 2011... The pound is at its lowest since 1985. I have a lot more faith in the resilience of the latter versus the fickleness of the former.

Edited July 2, 2016 by NanLaew

[Jip99]

I didn't vote,i wasn't allowed to. Who was right or wrong will be seen in about 6 months time when the markets decide,not the voters.

The FTSE is at it's highest level since 2011, looks like the market already has.

FTSE is at its highest level since 2011... The pound is at its lowest since 1985. I have a lot more faith in the resilience of the latter versus the fickleness of the former.

So the exchange markets are not fickle ?

Same pimps and whores!

[ilostmypassword]

I didn't vote,i wasn't allowed to. Who was right or wrong will be seen in about 6 months time when the markets decide,not the voters.

The FTSE is at it's highest level since 2011, looks like the market already has.

FTSE is at its highest level since 2011... The pound is at its lowest since 1985. I have a lot more faith in the resilience of the latter versus the fickleness of the former.

What you should have written is the FTSE 100 is at its highest level since 2011. The thing about the FTSE 100 is that it's mainly multinationals that have very limited exposure to the UK economy. It's the FTSE 250 that should be looked at. These are the next 250 companies in size and are much more dependent on the UK economy. And they still haven't recovered all their pre-Brexit valuations.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/27/why-we-should-be-looking-at-the-ftse-250-and-not-the-ftse-100-to/

[RuamRudy]

Please do not include Scotland in your UK generalisation.

We are just as patriotic, perhaps even more so, about our country as the English are about theirs but, unlike the English, most of us also consider ourselves European and have been so for hundreds of years.

It is possible to be patriotic without being xenophobic!

For a nation that hates the English, I don't think you should be using words like xenophobic!

I think that this will be the 4th time in two days I ask the following question on TV, and I fully expect it will be the 4th time that no answer is forthcoming:

In what way does Scotland and its people act that suggests they hate the English?

That we increasingly wanting independence from the UK no more implies that we hate the English than me leaving home at 17 implied that I hated my parents. However, if you want clear examples of how much hatred flows in the opposite direction, just read some of the Scottish threads here, or take a look at the Telegraph comments pages when the merest whiff of Sturgeon comes up.

[Jip99]

Please do not include Scotland in your UK generalisation.

We are just as patriotic, perhaps even more so, about our country as the English are about theirs but, unlike the English, most of us also consider ourselves European and have been so for hundreds of years.

It is possible to be patriotic without being xenophobic!

For a nation that hates the English, I don't think you should be using words like xenophobic!

I think that this will be the 4th time in two days I ask the following question on TV, and I fully expect it will be the 4th time that no answer is forthcoming:

In what way does Scotland and its people act that suggests they hate the English?

That we increasingly wanting independence from the UK no more implies that we hate the English than me leaving home at 17 implied that I hated my parents. However, if you want clear examples of how much hatred flows in the opposite direction, just read some of the Scottish threads here, or take a look at the Telegraph comments pages when the merest whiff of Sturgeon comes up.

Fair comment.

Also to be fair, Sturgeon is detestable to many non-Scots ... .......... and several Scots that I have spoken to.

[soalbundy]

May be people voted for Little England. Perhaps they're sick of being dragged into countless conflicts Worldwide. Perhaps they're tired of being forced to pay huge sums in "foreign aid" to dictators. Perhaps they've had enough of being given away and told they're terrible people at the same time.

The working class vote was definitely a vote against middle class Marxists, bunch of fakes that they are. The Labour Party died with John Smith.

The British empire once covered 25% of the worlds land surface and ruled over 20% of the earths population who were not entirely voluntary subjects. Much of the worlds conflicts,especially in the Arab world were caused by both France and the UK,it seems only right that they are dragged into these conflicts. Paying large sums to dictators is a choice made by parliaments around the world also the British parliament,it's called being pragmatic,you cant send gun boats to steal the wealth of the indigenous population anymore so you let dictators do your dirty work for you. The working class is lost without the middle class or capital,you cant provide places of work with dreams,some one needs to make a profit before factories are built.

[soalbundy]

Left wing newspaper claims everyone else will stay in by 3% majority.

Left wing newspaper claims stupid people with poor education vote to leave.

Am I the only one smelling a rat?

Nicolas Sarkozy

He told a rally last month: “It wasn’t that long ago that when we talked about immigration, identity and removing citizenship we were called fascists. But minds have changed, the masses are rising, the people are standing up and they are saying louder and louder: ‘Enough is enough.’”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/01/nicolas-sarkozy-france-brexit-vote-boosts-presidential-hopes

I see parallels with that quote to the rise of fascism in Germany,they were ground down financially by the treaty from ww1 capital markets,jews and foreigners in general were blamed for Germany's demise,'take back our country',and they followed the first man who promised to do so.

[vogie]

Please do not include Scotland in your UK generalisation.

We are just as patriotic, perhaps even more so, about our country as the English are about theirs but, unlike the English, most of us also consider ourselves European and have been so for hundreds of years.

It is possible to be patriotic without being xenophobic!

For a nation that hates the English, I don't think you should be using words like xenophobic!

I think that this will be the 4th time in two days I ask the following question on TV, and I fully expect it will be the 4th time that no answer is forthcoming:

In what way does Scotland and its people act that suggests they hate the English?

That we increasingly wanting independence from the UK no more implies that we hate the English than me leaving home at 17 implied that I hated my parents. However, if you want clear examples of how much hatred flows in the opposite direction, just read some of the Scottish threads here, or take a look at the Telegraph comments pages when the merest whiff of Sturgeon comes up.

Normally your posts are quite well balanced, but on this one you are losing it a bit.

As for the hatred of the English it's so obvious, as Bob Dylan said, "you need a weather man to know which way the wind blows. I was in the military in the 60s and 70s and was sent to Glasgow and Edinburgh to assist in the dustbin strike, and the racial remarks from some of the Scots when they heard my English accent was disgraceful. I also can't understand why Scottish football supporters have to hate England everytime we play, they would sooner support a side fielded by Atilla the Hun than cheer for England, a tad childish don't you think? If Scotland ever got to play, lets say European football, I'm sure the English would wish the Scots the very best.

When you say "we" are awaiting independence from the UK, who is 'we' I'm assuming you mean the SNP and not all the Scots. Only 48% of the Scots voted for the SNP, meaning over 50% didn't vote for them. The 48% was made up of less than 1.5 million, but still managed 56 seats in parliament, UKIP got over 8 million votes and got 1 seat, so on the basis of that I think N.Sturgeon should consider herself a tad fortunate, and by the way I am not endorsing UKIP, merely using as an example.

In my military career my close friends were Scottish, I was proud to serve with them and everything else that goes with the service. I would hate to think that they were now of the same mind of Nicola and her followers, they would have gone to hell and back for me, as I would have done for them. So I would like to add that I do like the Scots but don't like the way the SNP is trying to break up the Union.

[Anon999]

The urge to destroy can be contagious

You could be correct.

Frexit, Nexit or Oexit? Who will be next to leave the EU

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/27/frexit-nexit-or-oexit-who-will-be-next-to-leave-the-eu

If you think the French, Italians and Dutch will accompany you in the shit you are very wrong.

The example Brexit had for other countries in Europe under a magic deterrent.

Today the discourse of protectionism, demagogic and xenopbobe is challenged everywhere in view of the catastrophe recorded in UK and is far from over. In France, for example, supporters of a Franxit that were slightly earlier stages majority not now count about 30% of voters, and as in UK , mainly the old, the poor and the uneducated.

Better, Marine Le Pen, representative far right lost first place favorable opinions yet she held for years.

The populist discourse has just obtained its first concrete results in a developed country. And I beg you to believe that this new model does not want anyone

Coming from the South East of England where the houses are expensive and jobs are largely high tech the vote for Brexit was >58% in my area, just 25 miles from Heathrow where the airshow will be held soon. Personally I do not know anyone who voted Remain and they range in age from 30 up, so maybe you can identify your source of information about the stereotypes you quote. However, it's unlikely to be any source where official figures are provided.

[Basil B]

The urge to destroy can be contagious

You could be correct.

Frexit, Nexit or Oexit? Who will be next to leave the EU

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/27/frexit-nexit-or-oexit-who-will-be-next-to-leave-the-eu

Left wing newspaper claims everyone else will stay in by 3% majority.

Left wing newspaper claims stupid people with poor education vote to leave.

Am I the only one smelling a rat?

I do not think it was left wing news papers that came up with the demographic charts showing showing the average social class, education achievement, job earnings of every one of the 382 areas... only thing not shown was the average IQ of each area but I think had we band people with a low IQ from voting the result would have been different.

[natway09]

The UK political parties have made a terrible mistake,,,,, they allowed Britain to have a referendum before they got together

& had some idea of an exit course of action. This could be very much to their detriment as at present all just running

around in shock at the outcome & like chooks with their heads cut off really have no idea where to go now....

From my point of view this was a massive error in itself.

[Ace of Pop]

I must know some very odd French, Dutch,German and Norway Folk here, mind you they are all financial comfortable, but not one blames England from getting out,and regret their Folks getting in.!!. As for my Portugal IMF Loans and E.U. has been useless for the majority. I will never get over the IMF Loan for the Motorways only German and Brit Tourists can afford. We are not happy being rather poor but it was caused by ourselves rather than other Nations dictates, and were still the same. Rather Poor by English n German bench marks. Like Bangkok is to Thailand. Lisbon isnt Portugal.

[ddavidovsky]

For a nation that hates the English, I don't think you should be using words like xenophobic!

I think that this will be the 4th time in two days I ask the following question on TV, and I fully expect it will be the 4th time that no answer is forthcoming:

In what way does Scotland and its people act that suggests they hate the English?

That we increasingly wanting independence from the UK no more implies that we hate the English than me leaving home at 17 implied that I hated my parents. However, if you want clear examples of how much hatred flows in the opposite direction, just read some of the Scottish threads here, or take a look at the Telegraph comments pages when the merest whiff of Sturgeon comes up.

It's quite deep-rooted. Read any history book. Religion for one thing.

In times of plenty everyone forgets their differences, but when affluence is threatened, all the old animosity re-emerges.

[awayego]

Please do not include Scotland in your UK generalisation.

We are just as patriotic, perhaps even more so, about our country as the English are about theirs but, unlike the English, most of us also consider ourselves European and have been so for hundreds of years.

It is possible to be patriotic without being xenophobic!

For a nation that hates the English, I don't think you should be using words like xenophobic!

I think that this will be the 4th time in two days I ask the following question on TV, and I fully expect it will be the 4th time that no answer is forthcoming:

In what way does Scotland and its people act that suggests they hate the English?

That we increasingly wanting independence from the UK no more implies that we hate the English than me leaving home at 17 implied that I hated my parents. However, if you want clear examples of how much hatred flows in the opposite direction, just read some of the Scottish threads here, or take a look at the Telegraph comments pages when the merest whiff of Sturgeon comes up.

Fair comment.

Also to be fair, Sturgeon is detestable to many non-Scots ... .......... and several Scots that I have spoken to.

Well, let's clear one thing up straight away, I do not hate the English!

My mother's half of my family are all English.

I thought it was clear enough that my comments (in both my posts) were very much tongue-in-cheek but clearly not sufficiently or obviously so.

It is a game often played between us, although more often than not the invective spewed forth by many English here is real enough and must indicate a genuine hatred in some cases.

I tend to rise above it and not respond in similar fashion.

My point is, though, that I genuinely believe that the relationship between Scotland and England would be significantly improved by Scottish (or English!) Independence if only because neither of us would then be able to blame the other for being parasitic!

[happy Joe]

If you think the French, Italians and Dutch will accompany you in the shit you are very wrong.

The example Brexit had for other countries in Europe under a magic deterrent.

Today the discourse of protectionism, demagogic and xenopbobe is challenged everywhere in view of the catastrophe recorded in UK and is far from over. In France, for example, supporters of a Franxit that were slightly earlier stages majority not now count about 30% of voters, and as in UK , mainly the old, the poor and the uneducated.

Better, Marine Le Pen, representative far right lost first place favorable opinions yet she held for years.

The populist discourse has just obtained its first concrete results in a developed country. And I beg you to believe that this new model does not want anyone

Coming from the South East of England where the houses are expensive and jobs are largely high tech the vote for Brexit was >58% in my area, just 25 miles from Heathrow where the airshow will be held soon. Personally I do not know anyone who voted Remain and they range in age from 30 up, so maybe you can identify your source of information about the stereotypes you quote. However, it's unlikely to be any source where official figures are provided.

Opinionway poll commissioned by the French Senate last 27 June.

( sorry for french language )

[vogie]

If you think the French, Italians and Dutch will accompany you in the shit you are very wrong.

The example Brexit had for other countries in Europe under a magic deterrent.

Today the discourse of protectionism, demagogic and xenopbobe is challenged everywhere in view of the catastrophe recorded in UK and is far from over. In France, for example, supporters of a Franxit that were slightly earlier stages majority not now count about 30% of voters, and as in UK , mainly the old, the poor and the uneducated.

Better, Marine Le Pen, representative far right lost first place favorable opinions yet she held for years.

The populist discourse has just obtained its first concrete results in a developed country. And I beg you to believe that this new model does not want anyone

Coming from the South East of England where the houses are expensive and jobs are largely high tech the vote for Brexit was >58% in my area, just 25 miles from Heathrow where the airshow will be held soon. Personally I do not know anyone who voted Remain and they range in age from 30 up, so maybe you can identify your source of information about the stereotypes you quote. However, it's unlikely to be any source where official figures are provided.

Opinionway poll commissioned by the French Senate last 27 June.

( sorry for french language )

As we saw last week, opinion polls cannot always be relied on.

[Andreas2]

On a more humorous note:

[RuamRudy]

I think that this will be the 4th time in two days I ask the following question on TV, and I fully expect it will be the 4th time that no answer is forthcoming:

In what way does Scotland and its people act that suggests they hate the English?

That we increasingly wanting independence from the UK no more implies that we hate the English than me leaving home at 17 implied that I hated my parents. However, if you want clear examples of how much hatred flows in the opposite direction, just read some of the Scottish threads here, or take a look at the Telegraph comments pages when the merest whiff of Sturgeon comes up.

It's quite deep-rooted. Read any history book. Religion for one thing.

In times of plenty everyone forgets their differences, but when affluence is threatened, all the old animosity re-emerges.

I don't know what books you have read, but as a 40-somthing year old Scotsman, I don't need to read a book to be able to determine whether there is an anti-english problem in my country. As for religion, the CofE is barely represented in Scotland so I fail to see your point there.

[happy Joe]

If you think the French, Italians and Dutch will accompany you in the shit you are very wrong.

The example Brexit had for other countries in Europe under a magic deterrent.

Today the discourse of protectionism, demagogic and xenopbobe is challenged everywhere in view of the catastrophe recorded in UK and is far from over. In France, for example, supporters of a Franxit that were slightly earlier stages majority not now count about 30% of voters, and as in UK , mainly the old, the poor and the uneducated.

Better, Marine Le Pen, representative far right lost first place favorable opinions yet she held for years.

The populist discourse has just obtained its first concrete results in a developed country. And I beg you to believe that this new model does not want anyone

Coming from the South East of England where the houses are expensive and jobs are largely high tech the vote for Brexit was >58% in my area, just 25 miles from Heathrow where the airshow will be held soon. Personally I do not know anyone who voted Remain and they range in age from 30 up, so maybe you can identify your source of information about the stereotypes you quote. However, it's unlikely to be any source where official figures are provided.

Opinionway poll commissioned by the French Senate last 27 June.

( sorry for french language )

As we saw last week, opinion polls cannot always be relied on.

OK, OK...

Let's talk about tangible election results then.

29 May 2005 took place a French referendum (purely consultative) to accept the European constitution. The treaty was rejected by 55% of voters.

But the french President Jacques Chirac decided not to take into account that majority view and make validate this constitution by the parliament.

Since the supporters and opponents shared around 50/50 last spring with a push of "leave" encouraged by the extreme right.

But thanks to the English vote has opinion swung completely since June 24.

I think Britaniques also changed their preference. But the big problem is that Brexit referendum was not consultative, Prime Minister David cameron has publicly committed to implement definitely. his commitment was worth not only for the people called the ballot box, but also for other EU members that do not expect the publication of the article 50 to ratify the divorce.

Edited July 2, 2016 by happy Joe

[JetsetBkk]

Why don't you tell us. It was you who was so keen to brought Churchill to the conversation.

Are you one of those nutters who love to ride and abuse the fame of the people who died for your country?

I guess you are. Silly little people. Silly little folks, who are so keen to abuse what our heroes has done.

I guess, you don't even know how to be ashamed. Do you?

Are you taking medication? I suggest you improve your reading skills and/or English comprehension.

"soalbundy" first mentioned Churchill and I replied:

<snip>

Churchill was a bit of a drunkard and dosed up to the eyeballs by his doctor. ''I got more out of alcohol than alcohol got out of me'' was one of his sayings

Churchill also said other stuff, such as...

Just what set you off, I have no idea. Clearly Churchill's quote must've hit its mark.

[RuamRudy]

For a nation that hates the English, I don't think you should be using words like xenophobic!

I think that this will be the 4th time in two days I ask the following question on TV, and I fully expect it will be the 4th time that no answer is forthcoming:

In what way does Scotland and its people act that suggests they hate the English?

That we increasingly wanting independence from the UK no more implies that we hate the English than me leaving home at 17 implied that I hated my parents. However, if you want clear examples of how much hatred flows in the opposite direction, just read some of the Scottish threads here, or take a look at the Telegraph comments pages when the merest whiff of Sturgeon comes up.

Normally your posts are quite well balanced, but on this one you are losing it a bit.

As for the hatred of the English it's so obvious, as Bob Dylan said, "you need a weather man to know which way the wind blows. I was in the military in the 60s and 70s and was sent to Glasgow and Edinburgh to assist in the dustbin strike, and the racial remarks from some of the Scots when they heard my English accent was disgraceful. I also can't understand why Scottish football supporters have to hate England everytime we play, they would sooner support a side fielded by Atilla the Hun than cheer for England, a tad childish don't you think? If Scotland ever got to play, lets say European football, I'm sure the English would wish the Scots the very best.

When you say "we" are awaiting independence from the UK, who is 'we' I'm assuming you mean the SNP and not all the Scots. Only 48% of the Scots voted for the SNP, meaning over 50% didn't vote for them. The 48% was made up of less than 1.5 million, but still managed 56 seats in parliament, UKIP got over 8 million votes and got 1 seat, so on the basis of that I think N.Sturgeon should consider herself a tad fortunate, and by the way I am not endorsing UKIP, merely using as an example.

In my military career my close friends were Scottish, I was proud to serve with them and everything else that goes with the service. I would hate to think that they were now of the same mind of Nicola and her followers, they would have gone to hell and back for me, as I would have done for them. So I would like to add that I do like the Scots but don't like the way the SNP is trying to break up the Union.

If my tone seems frustrated it is because this canard makes me so frustrated. Evidence of an wide-spread issue is non-existent; so much so that you offer a 50-year old annecdote as proof.

I did some googling and came up with the following forums where English people asked how they would be received were they to move to Scotland. Despite the 10s of reports, virtually none mentioned any abuse because they were English:

What's It Like Living In Scotland As An Englishman

How difficult is it for a returning Englishman and his wife to live in Scotland

Do A Lot Of English Live In Scotland?

As one person put it, "You get bigots and anti-(whatever) sentiment everywhere. I myself have been told a couple of times to <deleted> off back North of the border since I moved to England. It's just ar*eholes and you get them everywhere"

In the 2015 UK General Election, pro-independence parties (SNP & Greens) took a combined share of 51.3% of the vote.

In the 2016 Scottish Parliament Election, the SNP & Greens took a combined 53.5% so the demand for independence is clearly growing.

56 seats in Westminster - I agree that it is unfair, however the SNP actively campaigned to adopt PR during that referendum; it was the Tories who misled the nation on that one.

[WhamBam]

............ ...........Gawd 'elp us............

Why do you think UK voted out...........

Mainly because complex entities are often too difficult for ordinary people to understand and the populists are using the ignorance of those people to push their own agendas.

(And I already know. That was arrogant thing to say.)

No, us older folk KNOW what our families endured for freedom.....UK gave the EU a try and what did they see......Germans trying to control, daft folk in Brussels trying to control, ......the UK guy/gal on the street does not want any of that shit, my late father did not want any of that shit...... Some of you just think about money, money money money..........Gawd.......

You oder folks don't understand all the possibilities or freedoms the younger generations have with international co-operation. Life without borders and man made restrictions.

Younger generations understand the benefits of this co-operation. Younger generations don't think EU co-operation as restrictions, but as possibilities. They also understand that none of us can't live our lives as "Me first!", but we have to make compromises, where I'm sometimes first and sometimes not.

Money is just a part of the equation.

Many people like their personal freedom. Freedom to live and work in another country without too much paperwork from the host country. Ability to move around and try to find a place called home, at least a temporary one.

You older folks might have set your stone to the ground, but don't expect others to think alike.

Why anyone young would like to live in a reservoir when there is the whole world to be explored and enjoyed?

Hmm.. I was supposed to start breaking the thought that people who support reasonable status quo, instead of burn bridges, are too politically correct. I'll try to improve my insulting skills. I just wish we could swear here.

The world was open to you before. Its is open to you now and will be in the future.

You are posting - I presume - from Thailand and you complain about paperwork???

Oh dear, what a hardship it is to do a little paperwork.

Europe might have been more open with its no borders but only for some and not all E.U. countries had their borders wide open.

Try visiting the U.S.A. with no paperwork and see where that gets you.

The world is not open and hopefully the E.U. countries will not be so open either in the not so distant future with all those millions of muslims raring to get in....... And don't mention Turkey

I see nothing wrong with border control where it keeps out those you do not want in your respective country.

Time will tell if us ?OLD? folk have got it right with our voyes to leave

[WhamBam]

The urge to destroy can be contagious

You could be correct.

Frexit, Nexit or Oexit? Who will be next to leave the EU

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/27/frexit-nexit-or-oexit-who-will-be-next-to-leave-the-eu

If you think the French, Italians and Dutch will accompany you in the shit you are very wrong.

The example Brexit had for other countries in Europe under a magic deterrent.

Today the discourse of protectionism, demagogic and xenopbobe is challenged everywhere in view of the catastrophe recorded in UK and is far from over. In France, for example, supporters of a Franxit that were slightly earlier stages majority not now count about 30% of voters, and as in UK , mainly the old, the poor and the uneducated.

Better, Marine Le Pen, representative far right lost first place favorable opinions yet she held for years.

The populist discourse has just obtained its first concrete results in a developed country. And I beg you to believe that this new model does not want anyone

We are the beginning, not the end. There will be more voting in their own referendums once they have time to digest what else the E.U. autocrats are planning.

Time will tell.

And not all the voters and supporters of E.U. referendums are poor, old and uneducated.

But then again.... some people always like to think they are better than others.

[ableguy]

For a little country we certainly can whack a big punch...

I am sure when the dust dies the Netherlands will be one of the first trying to secure continued exports to the UK.

Population five million ? Who cares what they think., friends or not.

EU bureaucrats and leaders should put brain in gear before opening mouth.

[Skywalker69]

Have just been sent this. No knowledge as to its accuracy (and its not my problem)

Why they want to Brexit

Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.

Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers’ pension funds.

Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.

British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.

Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.

Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.

M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.

Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with EU grants.

Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.

Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.

Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.

Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.

Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.

ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs.

Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.

JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.

UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.

Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.

Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.

The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.

Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.

39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU.

The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK.

The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK

.

We used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.

I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't.

Read it and weep! A short list of financial and industrial FUBARs from the EU...

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.

And of course, the real deal-breaker .... Democracy, transparency and independence. We can vote out our MPs - BUT the European Commission who dictate 55% of UK laws, which are legally binding, are ..... guess what, untouchable, unelected and hidden from view.

I will just take your last sentence because it demonstrates you clearly do not know what you are talking about. Before you claim that 55% of UK Laws are dictated by the EU Commission please supply proof. The University of Liverpool Law School Professor Michael Dougan the leading EU lawyer says otherwise. This was one of the big lies thrown up by Brexiters. However do feel free to contradict Professor Michael Dougan I look forward to you substantiating that statement. I have already posted two of his videos explaining this but then I doubt you really want to base your opinion on evidence.

Here is the link to M.D.

Edited July 2, 2016 by Skywalker69