From London, with love: tens of thousands rally against Brexit vote

[Usernames]

All those people out demonstrating in London are the ones who missed the market buying opportunity last week after the referendum vote.

[MissAndry]

Because the decision to leave was motivated by racial bigotry and not on economic rationale.

Are you suggesting nobody voted for Obama because he was black?

Or nobody voted for Thatcher because she was a woman?

Or only votes cast on a rational basis (I assume you are to be judge and jury on what is rational) are counted?

[Thaiwine]

Not at all - UKIP would still have stood for election. Any protests etc. would have been ignored if the vote had gone the other way.

Much as is happening now - apart from those desperate to pursue any avenue to ignore the democratic vote.

Yes, that's how a parliamentary democracy works. Only parliament can extricate the UK from the EU. If UKIP/Brexiters were to gain a parliamentary majority, out we would go. Obviously there will be a political cost to parties/MPs who ignore the referendum result. Hence the fascinating political manouvering at the moment. Does anyone really believe Theresa May will follow through Brexit?

Are you saying T May will be the fallguy/woman for the remainers, she will be PM but not execute arttical 50 and so putting her head on the block and saving her fellow MP's jobs at the next election,

Such devotion to her comrades, hmmm I don't see it happening.

Caveat : American, not really familiar with the intricacies of British culture , politics and parliamentary system.

Interesting comments above, since the referendum was so close, lf T May was to become PM and to disregard the referendum, will loose only 50% of the electorate's support. Any politician taking either side of the referendum will suffer a similar fate. So what is the downside of disregarding the referendum, calling it too close for such an important decision.

and moving forward to ..................

Last election. % of vote

Cons 36.9

Lab 30.4

Ukip 12.6

Lib 7.9

SNP 4.7

So if each not including Ukip as they are anti EU lost 50% and that went to Ukip, that would give them 52% of the vote, the cons won last time on 36%

I don't think they would lose 50% but we could be looking at a Ukip government next time if the referendum is ignored.

[dick dasterdly]

All those people out demonstrating in London are the ones who missed the market buying opportunity last week after the referendum vote.

Nah, they're just stupid enough to believe the media reports that those who voted brexit are now regretting the decision.

After all these years, I still can't believe how the vast majority ignore common sense - and rely on the media!

[brewsterbudgen]

Yes, until a result which is in the best interests of the people is reached

Please explain just who do YOU think should decide what is in the best interests of the people?

You, me, politicians, any political party, the Queen or the Royal Family, the EU, France, Germany, Mickey Mouse?

If you claim that the people of the UK should decide, it may have escaped your notice that 51.8% of the people who ACTUALLY could be bothered to vote which was over 17 million people actually voted for a Brexit.

I was one of them.

From the tone of your posts you voted to stay.

Your side lost.

My side won.

A simple question for you.

If your side had won and my side had lost would you STILL have wanted another referendum?

So you genuinely believe that if Brexit had narrowly lost, the likes of UKIP would have just accepted it and not continued to campaign and push for another vote? Dream on!

I just want what is best for the UK and for future generations.

You still haven't answered my question.

A simple question for you.

If your side had won and my side had lost would you STILL have wanted another referendum?

I don't know about anybody else but I would have accepted it.

What is a narrow loss?

10,000, 50,000, 100,000 votes? 1 or 2%?

It was over 1,000,000 votes and 3.8%.

quote "I just want what is best for the UK and for future generations."

Do you not think that I and many others who voted Brexit want the same thing?

How do YOU know what is best for the UK and future generations?

Are you omnipotent, do you have a crystal ball, use tarot cards?

If Remain had won of course I wouldn't have wanted a 2nd referendum. But UKIP and hardcore Brexiters would have! Farage is already on record saying if Remain won he would campaign for a 2nd referendum!

It's politics, but slightly more serious than the day to day political bullshit.

[billd766]

Can anyone provide an example where the result of a Referendum was not implemented?

When the Scottish Referendum was won by those in favour of staying in the UK, they stayed. You didn't have losers accusing the winners of being misled.

Suck it up! That's how it works.

Period.

Alex Salmond did.

Even after changing the rules to allow 16 year olds to vote yet excluding ALL Scots people who were NOT in Scotland at the time.

They still lost.

What makes them think that they will win this time?

[vogie]

A 2nd vote could come along. Don't be so quick to diss the peaceful protestors. It was peaceful protesters against the US war in VN which influenced that war. Initially, powers-that-be were chiding the protesters as a bunch of bedraggled hippies who didn't know how to brush their hair.

I think a 2nd vote would reverse Brexit.

...and then do we have a third for best of 3? On and on and on and on!

Yes, until a result which is in the best interests of the people is reached

Please explain just who do YOU think should decide what is in the best interests of the people?

You, me, politicians, any political party, the Queen or the Royal Family, the EU, France, Germany, Mickey Mouse?

If you claim that the people of the UK should decide, it may have escaped your notice that 51.8% of the people who ACTUALLY could be bothered to vote which was over 17 million people actually voted for a Brexit.

I was one of them.

From the tone of your posts you voted to stay.

Your side lost.

My side won.

A simple question for you.

If your side had won and my side had lost would you STILL have wanted another referendum?

So you genuinely believe that if Brexit had narrowly lost, the likes of UKIP would have just accepted it and not continued to campaign and push for another vote? Dream on!

I just want what is best for the UK and for future generations.

Don't you you think that your comment of "I want whats best for the UK" is a tad arrogant, doesn't anybody else know whats best for the UK but you! Please tell me you don't have green hair and a ring through your nose?

[dick dasterdly]

So you genuinely believe that if Brexit had narrowly lost, the likes of UKIP would have just accepted it and not continued to campaign and push for another vote? Dream on!

I just want what is best for the UK and for future generations.

You still haven't answered my question.

A simple question for you.

If your side had won and my side had lost would you STILL have wanted another referendum?

I don't know about anybody else but I would have accepted it.

What is a narrow loss?

10,000, 50,000, 100,000 votes? 1 or 2%?

It was over 1,000,000 votes and 3.8%.

quote "I just want what is best for the UK and for future generations."

Do you not think that I and many others who voted Brexit want the same thing?

How do YOU know what is best for the UK and future generations?

Are you omnipotent, do you have a crystal ball, use tarot cards?

If Remain had won of course I wouldn't have wanted a 2nd referendum. But UKIP and hardcore Brexiters would have! Farage is already on record saying if Remain won he would campaign for a 2nd referendum!

It's politics, but slightly more serious than the day to day political bullshit.

Its irrelevant. If remain had won, the govt. would ignore any protesters or petition. In much the same way as they are ignoring these pointless gestures now.

I suspect the govt. has its own plan to get round the vote - but its not by ignoring the referendum.

[ddavidovsky]

Because the decision to leave was motivated by racial bigotry and not on economic rationale. So outline the economic advantages of leaving the EU? Include the economic modelling and numbers that underpin the reasons for leaving? No one seems to be able to do this even after the vote has been carried.

The decision wasn't based on economic gain. See #122 above. There's more to life than money. Why keep dragging economics into it?

Nor was it 'racial bigotry' - race doesn't come into it. Call it 'cultural discrimination', a defence of local age-old values in the face of a relatively sudden tsunami of - well, I'm afraid 'parasites' is actually the accurate scientific term. It took Britain 2,000 years of hard work to create their sense of identity. Seems that is easily forgotten by those eager to sell the country's values down the river for another fix of economic growth.

[brewsterbudgen]

Don't you you think that your comment of "I want whats best for the UK" is a tad arrogant, doesn't anybody else know whats best for the UK but you! Please tell me you don't have green hair and a ring through your nose?

We live in a parliamentary democracy. Our elected MPs decide what to do for the best. And they will (eventually) decide whether we leave the EU.

[Snig27]

The referendum produced a small majority based on lies and racist bigotry.

Hardly a glowing mandate.

We can only hope that PM Teresa May manages to slow down or halt this mad rush to oblivion.

That's an inevitable situation whether people like it or not. The end result of all this is not, and never was, an exit from the European Union regardless of how fervently Leave voters may have ticked the boxes. The game now is for Teresa to negotiate a position technically outside Europe but without losing the benefits of Europe.

It's not an enviable position as the UK now has the weakest hand and stands more chance of being forced to accept EU rules and costs without much say. Their other option is to extract themselves fully and rely on the WTO. Given the UKs deep reliance now on a European market for just about everything it's not a good place to be. What a mess.

Lest we forget that the UK was largely forced into joining the EU to survive in the late 1960s. (Britain, post Empire, really was not all that great despite the rosy memories - it was in huge trouble)

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[angiolo]

A 2nd vote could come along. Don't be so quick to diss the peaceful protestors. It was peaceful protesters against the US war in VN which influenced that war. Initially, powers-that-be were chiding the protesters as a bunch of bedraggled hippies who didn't know how to brush their hair.

I think a 2nd vote would reverse Brexit.

Well there will be no second vote .,and there should not be one .Lets not make a mockery of our GREAT country. ANGIOLO with love

[MJP]

Don't you you think that your comment of "I want whats best for the UK" is a tad arrogant, doesn't anybody else know whats best for the UK but you! Please tell me you don't have green hair and a ring through your nose?

We live in a parliamentary democracy. Our elected MPs decide what to do for the best. And they will (eventually) decide whether we leave the EU.

We live in a parliamentary democracy until that democracy decides to hand it over to unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats in Brussels who set themselves preferential tax rates and exempt themselves from civil or criminal prosecution . . . among a bunch of other reasons for getting the hell out of the EU.

Edited July 3, 2016 by MJP

[Snig27]

Don't you you think that your comment of "I want whats best for the UK" is a tad arrogant, doesn't anybody else know whats best for the UK but you! Please tell me you don't have green hair and a ring through your nose?

We live in a parliamentary democracy. Our elected MPs decide what to do for the best. And they will (eventually) decide whether we leave the EU.

That's exactly right. When people shout about democracy vis-a-vis the referendum, they seem oblivious to this overwhelming fact. The vote was indicative, nothing else. Whether people may react badly to Parliament exercising its sovereign right is another whole question but is almost beside the point constitutionally.

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[Snig27]

Don't you you think that your comment of "I want whats best for the UK" is a tad arrogant, doesn't anybody else know whats best for the UK but you! Please tell me you don't have green hair and a ring through your nose?

We live in a parliamentary democracy. Our elected MPs decide what to do for the best. And they will (eventually) decide whether we leave the EU.

We live in a parliamentary democracy until that democracy decides to hand it over the unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats in Brussels who set themselves preferential tax rates and exempt themselves from civil or criminal prosecution . . . among a bunch of other reasons for getting the hell out of the EU.

Except that's one of the fictions used to sell Leave. The EU bureaucrats are appointed by elected representatives, just like bureaucrats the world over. And they are accountable.

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[Basil B]

The crucial point is getting enactment of Article 50. Even some Brexiters regard it something best delayed as a negotiating strategy. Plus it has yet to be determined if Parliament has to be consulted; if it does then even if MP's agree the second chamber could delay it if an Act of Parliament is required.

1. The result of the referendum is not legally binding.

2. 52/48% hardly a overwhelming victory, the wishes of those who wished to remain should be considered.

3. Europe has categorically said no negotiations before Article 50, even though I think there should be talks on finding common ground particularly in relations to Europeans working and living in the UK and vice versa.

4. It is arguable whether the PM has the right to move Article 50, IMHO this should be down to an act of Parliament and that is going to be a rough passage for sure.

Almost certainly we are going to exit, but we are not going to be bullied by some big headed bureaucrats and this will be no Dunkirk, we will leave with our heads up high.

Start planning your leaving party now...

Rule Britannia...

[kbelyeu]

A 2nd vote could come along. Don't be so quick to diss the peaceful protestors. It was peaceful protesters against the US war in VN which influenced that war. Initially, powers-that-be were chiding the protesters as a bunch of bedraggled hippies who didn't know how to brush their hair.

I think a 2nd vote would reverse Brexit.

The English lost the match the other day against Belgium... should they get a chance to try again?

Kurt

[vogie]

Don't you you think that your comment of "I want whats best for the UK" is a tad arrogant, doesn't anybody else know whats best for the UK but you! Please tell me you don't have green hair and a ring through your nose?

We live in a parliamentary democracy. Our elected MPs decide what to do for the best. And they will (eventually) decide whether we leave the EU.

Of course our MP's decide whats best, and they decided to give the British people a vote on whether to stay in the EU, why can't you see that?

[7by7]

No. England were beaten by Iceland.

Wales beat Belgium.

An appalling performance by England, a magnificent team effort by Wales.

Back to the topic.

[brewsterbudgen]

Don't you you think that your comment of "I want whats best for the UK" is a tad arrogant, doesn't anybody else know whats best for the UK but you! Please tell me you don't have green hair and a ring through your nose?

We live in a parliamentary democracy. Our elected MPs decide what to do for the best. And they will (eventually) decide whether we leave the EU.

Of course our MP's decide whats best, and they decided to give the British people a vote on whether to stay in the EU, why can't you see that?

I can see that. And our MPs are free to accept the results of the referendum or vote according to their conscience. There may be a political price to pay for voting against Brexit or voting for a "Brexit lite", but opinions are likely to have changed by then.

[mommysboy]

What a Drama ,one would think they get their shit together Before they vote hey,,,,Winging poms,,Winging to go out ,,,Now winging to go back in,,,

no wonder they are not much liked around the world .

Yes if it wasn't for the Skips we'd be the most unpopular in the world.

[mommysboy]

The referendum produced a small majority based on lies and racist bigotry.

Hardly a glowing mandate.

We can only hope that PM Teresa May manages to slow down or halt this mad rush to oblivion.

That's an inevitable situation whether people like it or not. The end result of all this is not, and never was, an exit from the European Union regardless of how fervently Leave voters may have ticked the boxes. The game now is for Teresa to negotiate a position technically outside Europe but without losing the benefits of Europe.

It's not an enviable position as the UK now has the weakest hand and stands more chance of being forced to accept EU rules and costs without much say. Their other option is to extract themselves fully and rely on the WTO. Given the UKs deep reliance now on a European market for just about everything it's not a good place to be. What a mess.

Lest we forget that the UK was largely forced into joining the EU to survive in the late 1960s. (Britain, post Empire, really was not all that great despite the rosy memories - it was in huge trouble)

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I don't see it that way. Nor the German newspapers. We are interdependent. Both can gain a lot. Both can win a lot. Where did you get that from?

Edited July 3, 2016 by mommysboy

[MissAndry]

The referendum produced a small majority based on lies and racist bigotry.

And yet, most of the EU appear to be white. Explain to me how the racism works with that?

[mommysboy]

A 2nd vote could come along. Don't be so quick to diss the peaceful protestors. It was peaceful protesters against the US war in VN which influenced that war. Initially, powers-that-be were chiding the protesters as a bunch of bedraggled hippies who didn't know how to brush their hair.

I think a 2nd vote would reverse Brexit.

The English lost the match the other day against Belgium... should they get a chance to try again?

Kurt

Kurt. Care to edit that last posting? But I agree with your sentiment.

[White Christmas13]

Typical of the younger generation,if i not get what i want i will throw a tantrum.

Britain was great alone, can be great again.

This can only be achieved with new forceful, honest leaders.

Not pig ...... idiots like Cameron.

While I may agree overall, London itself voted to remain.... and while it may not be practical to have an independent London (similar to Singapore) [i.e. access to sea] London's democratic will was to remain. Anything that is divisible through independence is itself divisible in a purely democratic manner only limited by what is and what is not practical.

When was Britain great alone? I seem to remember Britain the Empire, then Britain as part of the EU. I also remember a poll done prior to Margarett Thatcher asking if you were given the chance to stay or move anywhere else in the world.... what would you do... and an astonishing 60% actually answered leave (I remember finding the poll when I was having a discussion about Margaret Thatcher and how I thought that regardless of your political persuasion -- she was needed since the status-quo was not a happy situation). Britain the Empire might have had most of the power reside in Britain, but it definitely was not alone. Assuming the UK does leave the EU fully, this will be the first time in a long time it was truly alone, a shadow of itself.... which for the most part would be more isolated and inward looking than at any time in the past.

Maybe you can approach the US asking to be a commonwealth of it....now wouldn't that be a switch

Well first I have to say I am not British and I agree with most of your post, Britain invaded a lot of countries

their resident's migrated to Britain and now they are blamed for all the trouble the have

(ask all the Pakistanis and other members posted here )

http://thecommonwealth.org/member-countries

[GuestHouse]

What's all this about 52% : 48% being a result that must be accepted?

Farage himself does not think so. Refer link below:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681

[GuestHouse]

Meanwhile, the Brexit claim that we can have access to the EU market while getting back control of our borders is beginning to sound as hollow as anyone who thought about it already knew:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/03/eu-swiss-single-market-access-no-free-movement-citizens

So at the moment the UK is a member of the EU and has a full say plus a veto in EU policy, regulations and laws.

Brexit will take us out of the EU but in order to have access to the EU markets we will have to accept EU, policy, regulations and laws while we give up our seat at the EU and our veto.

Brexit is actually taking us to the exact relationship with the the EU that they claimed we had in the first place.

[MissAndry]

So at the moment the UK is a member of the EU and has a full say plus a veto in EU policy, regulations and laws.

Britain has no veto powers at all, in any EU decision, Cameron gave up the last veto power a few months ago.

You gotta keep up!

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/670220/Cameron-gave-away-Britain-valuable-EU-bargaining-Iain-Duncan-Smith

But apparently as an ignorant Brexit supporter, I shouldn't have known that.

And as an intelligent remainer voter, you should have known that.

Edited July 3, 2016 by MissAndry

[teatree]

The referendum produced a small majority based on lies and racist bigotry.

Hardly a glowing mandate.

We can only hope that PM Teresa May manages to slow down or halt this mad rush to oblivion.

You yourself are a bigot in summarizing that the bulk of the 17,410,742 people who voted to leave did so because they are racist bigots.

Respect other people's opinion!

[i claudius]

Do to those who say we should have another vote,if there is a general election and one party wind by 52 to 48 ,we should go to the polls again? And what if the vote is exactly the same ,do we try yet again?