defamation laws - what is and isn't

[virtualtraveller]

Posting here since legal forum is no longer answered regularly by Somchai the lawyer

Basically, got a guy threatening me with a slander law suit because of a realist and factual but negative review of his business on Google reviews, It since been removed but his threat persists.

He's also citing the computer crimes act and now threatening to get his govt official wife to have criminal charges levelled at me for another matter regarding incomplete paperwork on a business I sold 15 months ago (she is directly involved with supervising this business sector).

They're super pissed off with me for writing a letter of complaint to authorities about her misconduct.

I'm guessing it's all hot air on their part but by my experience these two are proud and stupid enough to waste lots of money dragging this through the court and if they do, what can I expect in terms of restrictions, costs etc.

[JingerBen]

According to Thai law, truth or falsehood is not the issue - it is the ​intent to defame.

[Shot]

This is why you never use your real name on review sights of any kind. In Thailand, that is.

OP. Not trying to insult you or anything. Just offering useful information to someone else who might make a similar mistake.

Hope it all goes well for you.

Edited July 3, 2016 by Shot

[roamer]

This is why you never use your real name on review sights of any kind. In Thailand, that is.

OP. Not trying to insult you or anything. Just offering useful information to someone else who might make a similar mistake.

Hope it all goes well for you.

So very true.

Even so, I can see the day happening when an innocent tourist leaves a critical review of a hotel in Thailand on Trip Advisor, owner recognises who the person is from the circumstances and launches defamation suit and passes on passport number to authorities and tourist gets nabbed at the airport.

Far fetched ? In any other country than Thailand it would be.

Edited July 3, 2016 by roamer

[tifino]

This is why you never use your real name on review sights of any kind. In Thailand, that is.

OP. Not trying to insult you or anything. Just offering useful information to someone else who might make a similar mistake.

Hope it all goes well for you.

So very true.

Even so, I can see the day happening when an innocent tourist leaves a critical review of a hotel in Thailand on Trip Advisor, owner recognises who the person is from the circumstances and launches defamation suit and passes on passport number to authorities and tourist gets nabbed at the airport.

Far fetched ? In any other country than Thailand it would be.

we copped a lemon-of-a-room, in Novotel Suvarnabhumio, and reported it promptly on booking.com

The PR people from the hotel were very prompt in their apologies when they read it...

Another one was from LK Royal (Pattaya), or more so the Restaurant (of the same company) up on the street corner; my missus was treated as if she were a streetgirl/bargirl, by a particular staff member in a skirt.

That went on Booking.com too

I tried to pacifiy the missus at the time, but being sorrounded by all these shirtless tattooed Russians with multi-girls hanging off each shoulder - doesn't mean that every thai girl customer is like one of (those) girls...

... and I am not a Russkie

Edited July 3, 2016 by tifino

[Asiantravel]

Yes you just have to suck it up here in Thailand no matter how bad the service is

I had a near miss where I simply wrote to an Australian manufacturer to complain that their Thai agent didn’t seem to be doing a good job of ensuring a plentiful supply of their product in Thailand.

Next thing is I received a warning email from the agents Thai lawyer to say I was going to be sued for defamation.

Luckily when I subsequently told the Australian manufacturer about this I believe they stuck up for me and told their agent to back off. So since then I’ve learnt its best to simply keep your mouth shut in this place

[roamer]

This is why you never use your real name on review sights of any kind. In Thailand, that is.

OP. Not trying to insult you or anything. Just offering useful information to someone else who might make a similar mistake.

Hope it all goes well for you.

So very true.

Even so, I can see the day happening when an innocent tourist leaves a critical review of a hotel in Thailand on Trip Advisor, owner recognises who the person is from the circumstances and launches defamation suit and passes on passport number to authorities and tourist gets nabbed at the airport.

Far fetched ? In any other country than Thailand it would be.

we copped a lemon-of-a-room, in Novotel Suvarnabhumio, and reported it promptly on booking.com

The PR people from the hotel were very prompt in their apologies when they read it...

Another one was from LK Royal (Pattaya), or more so the Restaurant (of the same company) up on the street corner; my missus was treated as if she were a streetgirl/bargirl, by a particular staff member in a skirt.

That went on Booking.com too

I tried to pacifiy the missus at the time, but being sorrounded by all these shirtless tattooed Russians with multi-girls hanging off each shoulder - doesn't mean that every thai girl customer is like one of (those) girls...

... and I am not a Russkie

Oh agree totally for places like Novotel and many others too take a realistic approach, reply to the review etc. Indeed in many ways my post was right out there but the stupidity of the law almost guarantees that there are people stupid enough to use it, despite the fact it brings about more negative publicity than just rolling with it.

[Shot]

This is why you never use your real name on review sights of any kind. In Thailand, that is.

OP. Not trying to insult you or anything. Just offering useful information to someone else who might make a similar mistake.

Hope it all goes well for you.

So very true.

Even so, I can see the day happening when an innocent tourist leaves a critical review of a hotel in Thailand on Trip Advisor, owner recognises who the person is from the circumstances and launches defamation suit and passes on passport number to authorities and tourist gets nabbed at the airport.

Far fetched ? In any other country than Thailand it would be.

we copped a lemon-of-a-room, in Novotel Suvarnabhumio, and reported it promptly on booking.com

The PR people from the hotel were very prompt in their apologies when they read it...

Another one was from LK Royal (Pattaya), or more so the Restaurant (of the same company) up on the street corner; my missus was treated as if she were a streetgirl/bargirl, by a particular staff member in a skirt.

That went on Booking.com too

I tried to pacifiy the missus at the time, but being sorrounded by all these shirtless tattooed Russians with multi-girls hanging off each shoulder - doesn't mean that every thai girl customer is like one of (those) girls...

... and I am not a Russkie

I would have just taken both of those up with the manager on site at the time. I don't review places on "what just happened", I review them on the end result.

[daveAustin]

Yes, be careful not to upset the kids unless you know someone with clout who can trump them. You could try the massive wai with a basket of fruit approach, or just ignore and hope it goes away, or threaten to counter-sue due to her 'misconduct'.

[CharlieH]

From our forum rules which pretty much explains the situation here in Thailand.

"You will not post comments that could be reasonably construed as defamation or libel.

Defamation is the issuance of a statement about another person or business which causes that person to suffer harm. It does not have to be false to be defamatory. Libel is when the defamatory statement is published either in a drawing, painting, cinematography, film, picture or letters made visible by any means, or any other recording instruments, recording picture or letters, or by broadcasting or spreading picture, or by propagation by any other means. Defamation is both a civil and criminal charge in Thailand."

[Fabricus]

According to Thai law, truth or falsehood is not the issue - it is the ​intent to defame.

An issue here concerns the seriousness of the claim (or defamation).

You can get away with things if you have an incontrovertible body of proof.

Ultimately, can your claim -- whether slander or libel -- be proved in a court of law? If you're defaming a business or an individual purely on subjective grounds, you're batting on a sticky wicket.

[blackcab]

According to Thai law, truth or falsehood is not the issue - it is the ​intent to defame.

An issue here concerns the seriousness of the claim (or defamation).

You can get away with things if you have an incontrovertible body of proof.

Ultimately, can your claim -- whether slander or libel -- be proved in a court of law? If you're defaming a business or an individual purely on subjective grounds, you're batting on a sticky wicket.

You can speak the truth in Thailand and still be guilty of defamation. The issue has got nothing to do with truth or untruth.

The issue is simply: Did you cause the person you talked about to suffer loss?

If your actions did cause loss then you are guilty.

[stevenl]

According to Thai law, truth or falsehood is not the issue - it is the ​intent to defame.

An issue here concerns the seriousness of the claim (or defamation).

You can get away with things if you have an incontrovertible body of proof.

Ultimately, can your claim -- whether slander or libel -- be proved in a court of law? If you're defaming a business or an individual purely on subjective grounds, you're batting on a sticky wicket.

You can speak the truth in Thailand and still be guilty of defamation. The issue has got nothing to do with truth or untruth.

The issue is simply: Did you cause the person you talked about to suffer loss?

If your actions did cause loss then you are guilty.

In the op's case: reviews could be defamation, letter to authorities can not.

[dotpoom]

This is why you never use your real name on review sights of any kind. In Thailand, that is.

OP. Not trying to insult you or anything. Just offering useful information to someone else who might make a similar mistake.

Hope it all goes well for you.

So very true.

Even so, I can see the day happening when an innocent tourist leaves a critical review of a hotel in Thailand on Trip Advisor, owner recognises who the person is from the circumstances and launches defamation suit and passes on passport number to authorities and tourist gets nabbed at the airport.

Far fetched ? In any other country than Thailand it would be.

I'm not that computer literate but I try to keep up to date with developments. From what I gather, it is really quite simple (well. not that simple) to trace one's IP address from an email they sent or post they made and in no time they know who the author is....or a least the owner of the computer is.

[johnmcc6]

According to a friend who recently tried to sue someone for defamation was told by his lawyer that a suite must be filed within 90 days of the defamatory remark. If your post was more than 90 days ago or you can string it out you should be O K.

[gandalf12]

Adopt a certain degree of Thainess and tell what people want to hear. The truth is never welcomed

[nausea]

As I understand it, telling the truth per se is no defence if damage is caused, but there is an "in the public interest" defence, albeit difficult to establish. I could be wrong though. Defamation in Thailand fascinates me, nice to hear about the 90 day rule, if true.

[Lee4Life]

It's not cheap to file a lawsuit and pay the re-occurring court costs. It probably depends on how much they are willing to spend and what they hope to get out of you. (and maybe how much they think you have).

[smotherb]

This is why you never use your real name on review sights of any kind. In Thailand, that is.

OP. Not trying to insult you or anything. Just offering useful information to someone else who might make a similar mistake.

Hope it all goes well for you.

So very true.

Even so, I can see the day happening when an innocent tourist leaves a critical review of a hotel in Thailand on Trip Advisor, owner recognises who the person is from the circumstances and launches defamation suit and passes on passport number to authorities and tourist gets nabbed at the airport.

Far fetched ? In any other country than Thailand it would be.

we copped a lemon-of-a-room, in Novotel Suvarnabhumio, and reported it promptly on booking.com

The PR people from the hotel were very prompt in their apologies when they read it...

Another one was from LK Royal (Pattaya), or more so the Restaurant (of the same company) up on the street corner; my missus was treated as if she were a streetgirl/bargirl, by a particular staff member in a skirt.

That went on Booking.com too

I tried to pacifiy the missus at the time, but being sorrounded by all these shirtless tattooed Russians with multi-girls hanging off each shoulder - doesn't mean that every thai girl customer is like one of (those) girls...

... and I am not a Russkie

I understand your point. As much as it irks you, you must realize the hotel workers see so many whores with farangs, that any local girl they see with a farang is a whore.

My wife was charged for having a girl in her room in a 5 star hotel in Manila—yeah, I know, has to be an oxymoron. She flew in from the states and checked-in with her card. I showed-up a day later, we spent two days there and checked-out. While paying at the desk, she noticed the charge for having a girl in the room—she got a great discount for that stay.

My Vietnamese wife and I were stopped by police for taking a taxi together in Saigon; until they found out we were married. She was asked to get out of the pool by the staff at a nice hotel in Bangkok—they became so apologetic when they found out. My Filipina wife and I have lived here for almost ten years. On numerous occasions, she is ill-treated until they find-out she is not Thai. Our 30 year old son and his mother were buying sunscreen and sandals in a pharmacy in Ao Nang. The clerk asked him if he wanted condoms too.

It’s disturbing when people think your wife is a whore; it’s even more so when she never was.

[smotherb]

This is why you never use your real name on review sights of any kind. In Thailand, that is.

OP. Not trying to insult you or anything. Just offering useful information to someone else who might make a similar mistake.

Hope it all goes well for you.

So very true.

Even so, I can see the day happening when an innocent tourist leaves a critical review of a hotel in Thailand on Trip Advisor, owner recognises who the person is from the circumstances and launches defamation suit and passes on passport number to authorities and tourist gets nabbed at the airport.

Far fetched ? In any other country than Thailand it would be.

I'm not that computer literate but I try to keep up to date with developments. From what I gather, it is really quite simple (well. not that simple) to trace one's IP address from an email they sent or post they made and in no time they know who the author is....or a least the owner of the computer is.

or at least the computer

[micmichd]

From our forum rules which pretty much explains the situation here in Thailand.

"You will not post comments that could be reasonably construed as defamation or libel.

Defamation is the issuance of a statement about another person or business which causes that person to suffer harm. It does not have to be false to be defamatory. Libel is when the defamatory statement is published either in a drawing, painting, cinematography, film, picture or letters made visible by any means, or any other recording instruments, recording picture or letters, or by broadcasting or spreading picture, or by propagation by any other means. Defamation is both a civil and criminal charge in Thailand."

So, defamation is a matter of causality (not intent)?

Does that mean defamation can be done unintended?

[Krataiboy]

This is why you never use your real name on review sights of any kind. In Thailand, that is.

OP. Not trying to insult you or anything. Just offering useful information to someone else who might make a similar mistake.

Hope it all goes well for you.

So very true.

Even so, I can see the day happening when an innocent tourist leaves a critical review of a hotel in Thailand on Trip Advisor, owner recognises who the person is from the circumstances and launches defamation suit and passes on passport number to authorities and tourist gets nabbed at the airport.

Far fetched ? In any other country than Thailand it would be.

we copped a lemon-of-a-room, in Novotel Suvarnabhumio, and reported it promptly on booking.com

The PR people from the hotel were very prompt in their apologies when they read it...

Another one was from LK Royal (Pattaya), or more so the Restaurant (of the same company) up on the street corner; my missus was treated as if she were a streetgirl/bargirl, by a particular staff member in a skirt.

That went on Booking.com too

I tried to pacifiy the missus at the time, but being sorrounded by all these shirtless tattooed Russians with multi-girls hanging off each shoulder - doesn't mean that every thai girl customer is like one of (those) girls...

... and I am not a Russkie

I understand your point. As much as it irks you, you must realize the hotel workers see so many whores with farangs, that any local girl they see with a farang is a whore.

My wife was charged for having a girl in her room in a 5 star hotel in Manila—yeah, I know, has to be an oxymoron. She flew in from the states and checked-in with her card. I showed-up a day later, we spent two days there and checked-out. While paying at the desk, she noticed the charge for having a girl in the room—she got a great discount for that stay.

My Vietnamese wife and I were stopped by police for taking a taxi together in Saigon; until they found out we were married. She was asked to get out of the pool by the staff at a nice hotel in Bangkok—they became so apologetic when they found out. My Filipina wife and I have lived here for almost ten years. On numerous occasions, she is ill-treated until they find-out she is not Thai. Our 30 year old son and his mother were buying sunscreen and sandals in a pharmacy in Ao Nang. The clerk asked him if he wanted condoms too.

It’s disturbing when people think your wife is a whore; it’s even more so when she never was.

I don't find it disturbing. I find it pathetic. What's wrong with being a sex worker? It's just a job. If you are poor and have no other means to earn a decent living, why should you not choose to sell the only asset at your disposal?

This doesn't automatically make you a bad person. Far from it. Many falangs meet and marry bar girls and masseuses who turn out to be wonderful wives and mothers.

Sex workers are as much a cross-section of society as any other group, with similar attributes, vices and virtues. The job they do does not define their entire character or make them in any way less worthy of being treated in a civilised manner.

ThaiVisa posters who pepper their prose with the pejorative term "whore" are clearly no less prejudiced than the police, hotel staff and other Asians they complain of.

[KittenKong]

Quality of service and general competence (not to mention the level of corruption and dishonesty) is so poor in Thailand that without the defamation laws many businesses or officials here would be buried under critical comments about them.

The defamation laws are just a shield protecting the utterly incompetent and the dishonest. It speaks volumes of a country that they need them.

[asean]

if it was fair comment you are safe. if it was of benefit to the public you are ok. we defend a lot of these. you're ok. if she persists file a 175 against her.

[Tomtomtom69]

This is why you never use your real name on review sights of any kind. In Thailand, that is.

OP. Not trying to insult you or anything. Just offering useful information to someone else who might make a similar mistake.

Hope it all goes well for you.

So very true.

Even so, I can see the day happening when an innocent tourist leaves a critical review of a hotel in Thailand on Trip Advisor, owner recognises who the person is from the circumstances and launches defamation suit and passes on passport number to authorities and tourist gets nabbed at the airport.

Far fetched ? In any other country than Thailand it would be.

I wouldn't use my real name in any country. That's why I think those people using their Facebook profiles to comment on news stories are just so stupid. I have a special "troll" account made especially to comment on articles where you need to logon with Facebook. I wouldn't be dumb enough to use my real name, some people really aren't all that bright.

[Tomtomtom69]

So very true.

Even so, I can see the day happening when an innocent tourist leaves a critical review of a hotel in Thailand on Trip Advisor, owner recognises who the person is from the circumstances and launches defamation suit and passes on passport number to authorities and tourist gets nabbed at the airport.

Far fetched ? In any other country than Thailand it would be.

we copped a lemon-of-a-room, in Novotel Suvarnabhumio, and reported it promptly on booking.com

The PR people from the hotel were very prompt in their apologies when they read it...

Another one was from LK Royal (Pattaya), or more so the Restaurant (of the same company) up on the street corner; my missus was treated as if she were a streetgirl/bargirl, by a particular staff member in a skirt.

That went on Booking.com too

I tried to pacifiy the missus at the time, but being sorrounded by all these shirtless tattooed Russians with multi-girls hanging off each shoulder - doesn't mean that every thai girl customer is like one of (those) girls...

... and I am not a Russkie

I understand your point. As much as it irks you, you must realize the hotel workers see so many whores with farangs, that any local girl they see with a farang is a whore.

My wife was charged for having a girl in her room in a 5 star hotel in Manila—yeah, I know, has to be an oxymoron. She flew in from the states and checked-in with her card. I showed-up a day later, we spent two days there and checked-out. While paying at the desk, she noticed the charge for having a girl in the room—she got a great discount for that stay.

My Vietnamese wife and I were stopped by police for taking a taxi together in Saigon; until they found out we were married. She was asked to get out of the pool by the staff at a nice hotel in Bangkok—they became so apologetic when they found out. My Filipina wife and I have lived here for almost ten years. On numerous occasions, she is ill-treated until they find-out she is not Thai. Our 30 year old son and his mother were buying sunscreen and sandals in a pharmacy in Ao Nang. The clerk asked him if he wanted condoms too.

It’s disturbing when people think your wife is a whore; it’s even more so when she never was.

I don't find it disturbing. I find it pathetic. What's wrong with being a sex worker? It's just a job. If you are poor and have no other means to earn a decent living, why should you not choose to sell the only asset at your disposal?

This doesn't automatically make you a bad person. Far from it. Many falangs meet and marry bar girls and masseuses who turn out to be wonderful wives and mothers.

Sex workers are as much a cross-section of society as any other group, with similar attributes, vices and virtues. The job they do does not define their entire character or make them in any way less worthy of being treated in a civilised manner.

ThaiVisa posters who pepper their prose with the pejorative term "whore" are clearly no less prejudiced than the police, hotel staff and other Asians they complain of.

smotherb, I've never had any such reactions here in Thailand, in China, yes.

Maybe it's because my wife is of ethnic Chinese origin, only a few years younger than me, or just that there are so many "farang" in relationships with Thai women that most people don't care. I am also fluent in Thai so I know for certain what people are saying.

On an average day, I'm more concerned about immature remarks related to me than my wife. The remarks are the usual boring, "big farang nose" jokes that some Thais like to make when they see a farang. Apart from a nose job, should we all start wearing handkerchiefs to hide our noses? LOL.

I'm perplexed by the comment above about being stopped inside a taxi in Ho Chi Minh for the "crime" of being a white man with an Asian woman. Sounds more like racial profiling to me. I have been to Vietnam many times, even lived there for a while, have shared taxis with local women and never been hassled before. You only have to be careful when staying overnight at a hotel with a local woman. It's then they might ask for a marriage certificate, though this depends on the hotel's policy.