Egypt urges “two state solution” to Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[Ulysses G.]

What objectively is the reason behind 'right to exist?'

The Palestinians and the Jews were both offered their own countries by UN. The Jews accepted. The Palestinians refused. The Israelis have built a thriving, successful country over the last 70 years and have made lot of technological advances that helped mankind. Of course, they have the right to exist.

[Jingthing]

What objectively is the reason behind 'right to exist?'

The Palestinians and the Jews were both offered their own countries by UN. The Jews accepted. The Palestinians refused. The Israelis have built a thriving, successful country over the last 70 years and have made lot of technological advances that helped mankind. Of course, they have the right to exist.

Indeed there has never in all of history been a Palestinian state and there may never be one either, But I think it would be better if that does happen, as long as Israel continues to exist as well.

[notmyself]

What objectively is the reason behind 'right to exist?'

The Palestinians and the Jews were both offered their own countries by UN. The Jews accepted. The Palestinians refused. The Israelis have built a thriving, successful country over the last 70 years and have made lot of technological advances that helped mankind. Of course, they have the right to exist.

What objectively is the reason behind 'right to exist?'

The Palestinians and the Jews were both offered their own countries by UN. The Jews accepted. The Palestinians refused. The Israelis have built a thriving, successful country over the last 70 years and have made lot of technological advances that helped mankind. Of course, they have the right to exist.

[Of course, they have the right to exist.]

AKA transient logic.

I ask again.... What objectively is the reason behind 'right to exist?'

[Ulysses G.]

What objectively is the reason behind 'right to exist?'

I like nonsense; it wakes up the brain cells.

-Dr. Seuss

[Boon Mee]

Let Israel decide for itself what it's strategy should be for dealing with the Recalcitrant Palestinians. That is what the Republican party is saying and I agree with them. IMO, a two-state solution is best, but the Palestinians don't seem very interested. All they really want is to wipe Israel off the map.

Arafat to this day, the Pali's focus is nothing but the total elimination of Israel and the Jews.

[Kiwiken]

Let Israel decide for itself what it's strategy should be for dealing with the Recalcitrant Palestinians. That is what the Republican party is saying and I agree with them. IMO, a two-state solution is best, but the Palestinians don't seem very interested. All they really want is to wipe Israel off the map.

Arafat to this day, the Pali's focus is nothing but the total elimination of Israel and the Jews.

To be honest you need look at some more balanced information. Yes some Palestinians may believe that. Yes some Arabs incited by radicals may Preach that. But educated Arabs and Israelis believe a negotiated fair and lasting peace is possible. Israels own society seems to be fragmented in 4 cliques Some radical and anti Arab, Some moderates the Uniting Factor the israeli Army. The Palestinian population growing faster than israels so unless you condone genocide which I do not believe anyone does then eventually there must be meaningful dialogue and a negotiated solution. Let us hope the new UN Secretary when appointed can facilitate the start of this.

[Steely Dan]

Seeing how Israel handles the NGO who fight against the settlements with a law supported by BIBI and submitted bar a far right dumbnut.

I guess the two states solution will never happen and it will be the fall of Israel because in 2 generations they will be outnumbered by Palestinian immigrants....

Yes, the EU are unhappy about their funding of illegal Palestinian settlements and funding of NGO incitement and facilitation of terrorism are being made public. Edited July 14, 2016 by Steely Dan

[Steely Dan]

This 'right to exist' pseudo intellectual claptrap again. What objectively is the reason behind 'right to exist?'

The two state solution can only work if both sides desire it. Do they?

If it comes down to ethnic cleansing AKA genocide then Israel will win due to having a long history of such things. Professionals if you will.

The Canaanites play an important role in the story of the Israelites' conquest of their "Promised Land," especially in the Book of Joshua, but the ancient Jewish scriptures contain almost no substantive information about them. The Canaanites are the villains of the story because they are living on land promised to the Israelites by Yahweh.

http://atheism.about.com/od/biblepeopleoldtestament/a/Canaanites-Old-Testament-History.htm

The Book of Joshua describes little more than a genocidal campaign against the unsuspecting inhabitants of Canaan. The Canaanites never attacked the Israelites, never enslaved the Israelites, and aren't described as ever having done anything to warrant mistreatment of any sort. Their only crime was living in the wrong place at the wrong time land promised to the Israelites by God at the time when God decided to make good on that promise.

http://atheism.about.com/od/biblestudyoldtestament1/a/Joshua-Genocide-yahweh.htm

Similar instructions appear in subsequent texts and they are clear that not only are the Israelites to make total war on the inhabitants, but they are also prohibited from entering into any sort of peace treaty with any group. There is to be no mercy for anyone, only death.

http://atheism.about.com/od/biblestudyoldtestament1/a/Joshua-Genocide-yahweh.htm

The Israelites got some practice in this by making war against the Midianites:

And they warred against the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses; and they slew all the males. ...And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. ...

http://atheism.about.com/od/biblestudyoldtestament1/a/Joshua-Genocide-yahweh.htm

If you want to go back that far you might as well attribute pagan rituals of sun worship to modern day Britons. Entertaining nonsense though but hardly supports the case for genocide of what is a demonstrably growing Palestinian population.

[thaibeachlovers]

What objectively is the reason behind 'right to exist?'

The Palestinians and the Jews were both offered their own countries by UN. The Jews accepted. The Palestinians refused. The Israelis have built a thriving, successful country over the last 70 years and have made lot of technological advances that helped mankind. Of course, they have the right to exist.

If the Israelis were to stay within their own borders instead of stealing Palestinian land to build illegal settlements, it would help their case.

Edited July 14, 2016 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

What objectively is the reason behind 'right to exist?'

The Palestinians and the Jews were both offered their own countries by UN. The Jews accepted. The Palestinians refused. The Israelis have built a thriving, successful country over the last 70 years and have made lot of technological advances that helped mankind. Of course, they have the right to exist.

Indeed there has never in all of history been a Palestinian state and there may never be one either, But I think it would be better if that does happen, as long as Israel continues to exist as well.

Oh, you're too much! If Palestine never existed, why is it written on those ancient maps?

Even under British occupation it was Palestine.

[thaibeachlovers]

This 'right to exist' pseudo intellectual claptrap again. What objectively is the reason behind 'right to exist?'

The two state solution can only work if both sides desire it. Do they?

If it comes down to ethnic cleansing AKA genocide then Israel will win due to having a long history of such things. Professionals if you will.

If you want to go back that far you might as well attribute pagan rituals of sun worship to modern day Britons. Entertaining nonsense though but hardly supports the case for genocide of what is a demonstrably growing Palestinian population.

It's relevant because the Zionist nutters use the bible to justify their occupation of land outside modern Israel, saying it was promised to them by "God". Completely barking of course, but fanatics will believe in fairy tales if it helps their cause.

Long reply shortened to allow posting

[dexterm]

Let Israel decide for itself what it's strategy should be for dealing with the Recalcitrant Palestinians. That is what the Republican party is saying and I agree with them. IMO, a two-state solution is best, but the Palestinians don't seem very interested. All they really want is to wipe Israel off the map.

Arafat to this day, the Pali's focus is nothing but the total elimination of Israel and the Jews.

Yasser Arafat recognized Israel's right to exist as far back as 1988, and repeated it in writing in 1993 at the Oslo Accords.

The world is still waiting for Israel to reciprocate recognizing the right of Palestinians to self determination in their own viable state. Instead they have simply grabbed more land, built more colonies, and dispossessed more Palestinians.

Here is Arafat's 1993 letter recognizing Israel...

"Mr. Prime Minister,

The signing of the Declaration of Principles marks a new era in the history of the Middle East. In firm conviction thereof, I would like to confirm the following PLO commitments:

- The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.

- The PLO accepts United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338.

- The PLO commits itself to the Middle East peace process, and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict between the two sides and declares that all outstanding issues relating to permanent status will be resolved through negotiations."

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/recogn.html

[dexterm]

What objectively is the reason behind 'right to exist?'

The Palestinians and the Jews were both offered their own countries by UN. The Jews accepted. The Palestinians refused. The Israelis have built a thriving, successful country over the last 70 years and have made lot of technological advances that helped mankind. Of course, they have the right to exist.

Indeed there has never in all of history been a Palestinian state and there may never be one either, But I think it would be better if that does happen, as long as Israel continues to exist as well.

Forget the silly word games and pseudo history.

What's in a name? "Israelis" did not exist until 1948. If Israeli apologists think Palestinians don't exist, then think again.

Over 70% of the world's countries recognize the State of Palestine, the Palestinian flag is flying outside the UN, and now Palestinian passports are to be issued. All peaceful steps in the right direction. Slow progress, but time is on the side of the Palestinians.

"As of 14 September 2015, 136 (70.5%) of the 193 member states of the United Nations and two non-member states have recognised the State of Palestine. Many of the countries that do not recognise the State of Palestine nevertheless recognise the PLO as the "representative of the Palestinian people". On 29 November 2012, the UN General Assembly passed a motion changing Palestine's "entity" status to "non-member observer state" by a vote of 138 to 9, with 41 abstentions."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine

[JingerBen]

What objectively is the reason behind 'right to exist?'

The Palestinians and the Jews were both offered their own countries by UN. The Jews accepted. The Palestinians refused. The Israelis have built a thriving, successful country over the last 70 years and have made lot of technological advances that helped mankind. Of course, they have the right to exist.

Indeed there has never in all of history been a Palestinian state and there may never be one either, But I think it would be better if that does happen, as long as Israel continues to exist as well.

Oh, you're too much! If Palestine never existed, why is it written on those ancient maps?

Even under British occupation it was Palestine.

Yes indeed.

Everything from ancient maps to Ariel Sharon's birth certificate.

References to ​Palestine ​are ubiquitous since the Romans created the province of ​Syria Palaestina ​in 135 AD.

[dexterm]

@JingerBen

Sorry, thread full...

And it's not just Ariel Sharon. 4 of Israel's Prime Ministers (Allon,Rabin,Sharon,Olmert) and the current President (Rivlin) all have Palestine written on their birth certificates.

The 6 others were born in Russia, Poland, or Ukraine.

And only one, Netanyahu, was born in Israel (after of course Zionists renamed Palestine).

It's pretty clear who the invaders and colonizers are. The indigenous people, the Palestinians, most certainly have a right to a state in their own land.

[notmyself]

What objectively is the reason behind 'right to exist?'

I like nonsense; it wakes up the brain cells.

-Dr. Seuss

It can certainly be illuminating. We often take things as a given without thought as to whether they are true or not. If I were to say that I went into town for a coffee it would likely be taken on face value but if I added that I rode into town on a 400' high pink elephant then it would call into question if I had gone into town for a coffee at all. Nonsense acts or rather can act like a flashlight, an alarm, a warning sign or wake up call. People can, and do, accept the most ridiculous things without even so much as a single thought as to its validity. A bit of nonsense can jolt you into questioning something which in this case is the right to exist.

A two state solution would certainly appear to be the best solution for all but neither side has shown any interest. Even if one side shows interest it would not be enough as both sides are required. The Israelis say the Palestinians are not interested and the Palestinians say the Israelis are not interested, they are both correct. A two state solution is the 'what' but what of the 'why'? If the problem was just about land then it would have been solved long long ago but the parties of their particular flavour of god have a veto on it.

A short video regarding long held unwillingness to share land in the region.

The Palestinian's pulling the strings want the entire area as do the Israelis pulling their strings. A large percentage (most?) of the population want peace via two states but they are unable to get it. Why? Identify what is standing in the way and address the problem in public. The UN could start the process indeed should start the process but has failed to do so because they know that the US will veto the effort. Why would they veto the effort and what is the effect of this veto.... what does it not allow. It would allow the general population on both sides access to an intricate knowledge of the peace process but for some reason that is a no no. Why is that and what would be the effect of having such knowledge on both sides. People would see similarities outside of propaganda, which at the very minimum would cause no harm.

[Ulysses G.]

What objectively is the reason behind 'right to exist?'

The Palestinians and the Jews were both offered their own countries by UN. The Jews accepted. The Palestinians refused. The Israelis have built a thriving, successful country over the last 70 years and have made lot of technological advances that helped mankind. Of course, they have the right to exist.

Indeed there has never in all of history been a Palestinian state and there may never be one either, But I think it would be better if that does happen, as long as Israel continues to exist as well.

Oh, you're too much! If Palestine never existed, why is it written on those ancient maps?

Even under British occupation it was Palestine.

Wake up. The Palestine on ancient maps was Jewish and the British version was governed by Brits. There has NEVER - ever - been an independent Palestinian state governed by Arabs and that is a FACT.

[Ulysses G.]

A two state solution would certainly appear to be the best solution for all but neither side has shown any interest. Even if one side shows interest it would not be enough as both sides are required.

Nonsense. Israel strongly desires a harmonious two state solution. It is the only solution that makes sense for them. Israel doesn't want Gaza or West Bank for itself and neither do these lands' former owners, Jordan and Egypt. The biggest obstacle to a two-state solution has been the Palestinians' failure to create anything resembling a stable government, let alone one that recognizes the existence of Israel and refrains from terrorist attacks.

The Palestinians are divided in at least three camps and none of them are earnestly committed to a peaceful solution to the conflict.

In one camp are Fatah and its allies who have never formally committed to a two-state formula.

The second camp is dominated by Hamas, which is committed to the destruction of Israel in no uncertain terms. However, Hamas does not want a Palestinian state either. Hamas is a pan-Islamist group dedicated to fighting for the creation of a global caliphate.

In the third camp, there are more radical Palestinian groups, including the Islamic Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine. The IJLP leadership has repeatedly declared its support for a one-state formula - one state with no Jews.

The Palestinians are not seriously interested in a two-state solution in any way.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

A two state solution would certainly appear to be the best solution for all but neither side has shown any interest. Even if one side shows interest it would not be enough as both sides are required.

Nonsense. Israel strongly desires a harmonious two state solution. It is the only solution that makes sense for them. Israel doesn't want Gaza or West Bank for itself and neither do these lands' former owners, Jordan and Egypt. The biggest obstacle to a two-state solution has been the Palestinians' failure to create anything resembling a stable government, let alone one that recognizes the existence of Israel and refrains from terrorist attacks.

The Palestinians are divided in at least three camps and none of them are earnestly committed to a peaceful solution to the conflict.

In one camp are Fatah and its allies who have never formally committed to a two-state formula.

The second camp is dominated by Hamas, which is committed to the destruction of Israel in no uncertain terms. However, Hamas does not want a Palestinian state either. Hamas is a pan-Islamist group dedicated to fighting for the creation of a global caliphate.

In the third camp, there are more radical Palestinian groups, including the Islamic Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine. The IJLP leadership has repeatedly declared its support for a one-state formula - one state with no Jews.

The Palestinians are not seriously interested in a two-state solution in any way.

More Zionist mythology. Israel is the perpetual victim. Their narrative is perfect. It is always someone else's fault.

Netanyahu's entire cabinet oppose a two state solution! In the linked article below, one by one Netanyahu's cabinet members demonstrate their true opinions.

The two-state solution is dead

Just ask Israel's own ministers.

"Read the views of Israel's new leaders - as documented below - who are refreshingly open, honest and blunt about their opposition to the long-standing, US-led formula of "two states for two peoples".

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2015/05/state-palestine-israel-zionist-150527070943455.html

[DaddyWarbucks]

Indeed there has never in all of history been a Palestinian state and there may never be one either, But I think it would be better if that does happen, as long as Israel continues to exist as well.

Oh, you're too much! If Palestine never existed, why is it written on those ancient maps?

Even under British occupation it was Palestine.

Wake up. The Palestine on ancient maps was Jewish and the British version was governed by Brits. There has NEVER - ever - been an independent Palestinian state governed by Arabs and that is a FACT.

"The Palestine on ancient maps was Jewish..."

I challenge you to prove that point from either a demographic or political perspective.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.

[dick dasterdly]

Its a shame that the VAST majority of posts on any thread regarding this topic are always so ridiculously biased.

It could be a great opportunity for us generally ignorant members to learn more about what is actually happening - instead it always turns into a 'posting ridiculous things fest' for those who are too biased to care about the nightmare that is actually going on in the area .

[notmyself]

Nonsense. Israel strongly desires a harmonious two state solution. It is the only solution that makes sense for them. Israel doesn't want Gaza or West Bank for itself and neither do these lands' former owners, Jordan and Egypt. The biggest obstacle to a two-state solution has been the Palestinians' failure to create anything resembling a stable government, let alone one that recognizes the existence of Israel and refrains from terrorist attacks.

That 'Israel strongly desires a harmonious two state solution.' is nothing more than an assertion UG. That (if we accept it as being true) it is the only solution that makes sense to them does not prove in any way that that is how they feel or what they desire.

The Palestinians are not seriously interested in a two-state solution in any way.

That that may be the case, it does not follow that Israel is.

[Ulysses G.]

Indeed there has never in all of history been a Palestinian state and there may never be one either, But I think it would be better if that does happen, as long as Israel continues to exist as well.

Oh, you're too much! If Palestine never existed, why is it written on those ancient maps?

Even under British occupation it was Palestine.

Wake up. The Palestine on ancient maps was Jewish and the British version was governed by Brits. There has NEVER - ever - been an independent Palestinian state governed by Arabs and that is a FACT.

"The Palestine on ancient maps was Jewish..."

I challenge you to prove that point from either a demographic or political perspective.

It is common knowledge.

The Twelve Tribes of Israel formed the first constitutional monarchy in Palestine about 1000 B.C. The second king, David, first made Jerusalem the nation's capital. Although eventually Palestine was split into two separate kingdoms, Jewish independence there lasted for 212 years. This is almost as long as Americans have enjoyed independence in what has become known as the United States.

Even after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem and the beginning of the exile, Jewish life in Palestine continued and often flourished. Large communities were reestablished in Jerusalem and Tiberias by the ninth century. In the 11th century, Jewish communities grew in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa and Caesarea.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/The_Jewish_Claim_To_The_Land_Of_Israel.html

[Ulysses G.]

Its a shame that the VAST majority of posts on any thread regarding this topic are always so ridiculously biased.

It could be a great opportunity for us generally ignorant members to learn more about what is actually happening - instead it always turns into a 'posting ridiculous things fest' for those who are too biased to care about the nightmare that is actually going on in the area .

Apparently, you have not been reading posts by Morch. He not only knows more about the conflict than anyone on the forum, he is also remarkable unbiased. I don't always agree with his opinions, but he is almost impossible to challenge on facts.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=user_activity&search_app=forums&mid=34408&sid=cf67af0437bd6749185ee8c5eb20a5cd&search_app_filters[forums][searchInKey]=&userMode=content

Edited July 15, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

Sorry, thread full...

UG wrote...

It is common knowledge.

The Twelve Tribes of Israel formed the first constitutional monarchy in Palestine about 1000 B.C. The second king, David, first made Jerusalem the nation's capital. Although eventually Palestine was split into two separate kingdoms, Jewish independence there lasted for 212 years. This is almost as long as Americans have enjoyed independence in what has become known as the United States.

Even after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem and the beginning of the exile, Jewish life in Palestine continued and often flourished. Large communities were reestablished in Jerusalem and Tiberias by the ninth century. In the 11th century, Jewish communities grew in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa and Caesarea.

http://www.jewishvir..._Of_Israel.html

What on earth has this dubious ancient history got to do with the OP prospects of a peaceful co-existence in the 21st century of 6 million Israeli Jews and 6 million Palestinians sharing the same land in a one or two state solution?

The Israeli Jews are not going to disappear and neither are the Palestinians, so deal with the present, not the meaningless past.

[Ulysses G.]

A two state solution would certainly appear to be the best solution for all but neither side has shown any interest. Even if one side shows interest it would not be enough as both sides are required.

Nonsense. Israel strongly desires a harmonious two state solution.

Netanyahu's entire cabinet oppose a two state solution!

Speaking of dealing with the PRESENT. What you claim is (as usual) not true. Netanyahu IS in favor of a PEACEFUL ( a synonym for harmonious) Two-State solution.

JERUSALEM — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, in his first American television interview since winning re-election, appeared to back away Thursday from his declaration that he would not allow the establishment of a Palestinian state.

"I don't want a one-state solution," he told NBC News in an interview. "I want a sustainable, peaceful two-state solution."

But he cautioned that "circumstances have to change" for that to happen. He said that the Palestinian leader refuses to recognize Israel and has made a pact with Hamas calling for Israel's destruction.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/netanyahu-nbc-u-s-has-no-greater-ally-israel-n326391

[Jingthing]

Very recent:

[thaibeachlovers]

A two state solution would certainly appear to be the best solution for all but neither side has shown any interest. Even if one side shows interest it would not be enough as both sides are required.

Nonsense. Israel strongly desires a harmonious two state solution.

Netanyahu's entire cabinet oppose a two state solution!

Speaking of dealing with the PRESENT. What you claim is (as usual) not true. Netanyahu IS in favor of a PEACEFUL ( a synonym for harmonious) Two-State solution.

JERUSALEM — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, in his first American television interview since winning re-election, appeared to back away Thursday from his declaration that he would not allow the establishment of a Palestinian state.

"I don't want a one-state solution," he told NBC News in an interview. "I want a sustainable, peaceful two-state solution."

But he cautioned that "circumstances have to change" for that to happen. He said that the Palestinian leader refuses to recognize Israel and has made a pact with Hamas calling for Israel's destruction.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/netanyahu-nbc-u-s-has-no-greater-ally-israel-n326391

Yes, he wants a 2 state solution in which the Israelis keep everything they occupy and the Palestinians have a fragmented, unviable state made from the scraps that israel doesn't want. I doubt he'd even give them access to water or a port.

That is not a prescription for peace.

[dexterm]

A two state solution would certainly appear to be the best solution for all but neither side has shown any interest. Even if one side shows interest it would not be enough as both sides are required.

Nonsense. Israel strongly desires a harmonious two state solution.

Netanyahu's entire cabinet oppose a two state solution!

Speaking of dealing with the PRESENT. What you claim is (as usual) not true. Netanyahu IS in favor of a PEACEFUL ( a synonym for harmonious) Two-State solution.

JERUSALEM — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, in his first American television interview since winning re-election, appeared to back away Thursday from his declaration that he would not allow the establishment of a Palestinian state.

"I don't want a one-state solution," he told NBC News in an interview. "I want a sustainable, peaceful two-state solution."

But he cautioned that "circumstances have to change" for that to happen. He said that the Palestinian leader refuses to recognize Israel and has made a pact with Hamas calling for Israel's destruction.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/netanyahu-nbc-u-s-has-no-greater-ally-israel-n326391

Your own link is hardly a ringing endorsement of your earlier claim that "Israel strongly desires a harmonious two state solution."

"Netanyahu appeared to back away Thursday from his declaration that he would not allow the establishment of a Palestinian state."

"appeared" of course is the key word. Netanyahu forever the flip-flopper, saying anything to cling to power

Having earlier shown his true colors, until the US admin had a word in his ear that he was out of step with US 2 state policy.

Netanyahu: No Palestinian state on my watch

http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-no-palestinian-state-under-my-watch/

Netanyahu: If I'm Elected, There Will Be No Palestinian State

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/elections/1.647212

Edited July 16, 2016 by dexterm