Brit dies in Bangkok hospital after being stranded for 2 month while family struggled to pay bill

[dageurreotype]

RIP . Don't blame Thailand for this.

The family is quite happy to:

"But Kathryns sister Elizabeth Phillips said the Thai medics decision to keep her sibling alive, due to their customs and beliefs, has lead to huge medical bills being racked up."

(1) Would a British hospital have pulled the plug sooner? I very much doubt it.

(2) Why didn't they move her to a cheaper hospital if the bills were a problem?

So typical of today's culture to blame everyone else and take no responsibility.

This isn't true. Bangkok Hospital have a DNR policy. However, if the family weren't at the hospital to be asked, BH quite possibly saw themselves on a nice little earner, being the 'mill' that they are. They'll also keep the corpse until settlement. This bit is to scare the bejayzuz out of any Thai relatives as keeping the corporeal remains from having a Buddhist ceremonial barbecue, aborent to Thai culture.

[thaiguzzi]

My Post replied $$$$$$

Still on that bar stool??

To bad these peasants couldn't

Get £36K together.

"Peasants"... got any other glorious soundbites?

My, what a bundle of joy and fun you are !!

[sanukjim]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Don't know her situation but most insurance doesn't cover existing conditions. Many people get the shaft due to this.

You are wrong about the existing conditions and people getting the shaft for it. The insurance rates are worked out taking the facts of,age,gender,life expediency in a certain country,existing chances of death or injury depending on the country location. Why should a person be able to pay the same rates with an existing condition then a person with out that condition ? Should you raise both rates to accommodate the difference of RISK ?Age is a factor also.Should I being over 70 years old be able to get the same coverage of hospitalization insurance as a 40 year old person ?Think about it.

[billd766]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Don't know her situation but most insurance doesn't cover existing conditions. Many people get the shaft due to this.

I am fairly sure travel insurance will cover P.E.C. It would certainly cover to bring the body home ,and some even medical evacuation when she was still alive .

Unless of course it was a pre-existing condition for which few if any insurers will cover.

[paulbj2]

Expats from UK, who paid in N.I. for years, who return home for a holiday, are liable for all medical costs, I believe ?

So medical insurance would have to be purchased by them, despite the thousands paid in over their working lives.

I believe there is an exception for Brits who receive a UK state pension but I could be wrong about that. Thankfully, it won't affect me as I am covered by Luxembourg state healthcare scheme and that will pay the bill whether or not the EU reciprocal arrangements cease when we leave the EU.

My brother is a doctor who has worked for the NHS all his life and is now retired. Due to a serious long term medical condition that nearly killed him, he cannot get any kind of private medical insurance so he is now confined holidaying in countries with which the UK has reciprocal medical arrangements (the EU countries and a few others)

[dunque]

Britain's NHS does it all the time. It an't known as the World's favourite health service for nothing.

There was a case fairly recently where a Nigerian woman having triplets (ectopic) had treatment worth £140,000 on the NHS, then swanned-off back to Lagos without paying a penny!

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

The NHS primarily treats sick people - and then gives them the bill...from time to time they don't pay, but at least they are alive. Many tourists in Britain owe their lives to the NHS.

You seem to be implying that the Thai hospital treatment was inadequate - any evidence for this?

[jinners]

Britain's NHS does it all the time. It an't known as the World's favourite health service for nothing.

There was a case fairly recently where a Nigerian woman having triplets (ectopic) had treatment worth £140,000 on the NHS, then swanned-off back to Lagos without paying a penny!

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

The NHS primarily treats sick people - and then gives them the bill...from time to time they don't pay, but at least they are alive. Many tourists in Britain owe their lives to the NHS.

'The NHS primarily treats sick people'? Well there's stating the bleeding obvious, what else would the National Health service do? 'From time to time they don't pay'. The NHS unpaid bill is estimated to be over 3 Billion pounds! "many tourists owe their lives to the NHS' Yes and many British taxpayers owe their high rates of tax to many of those tourists buggering off once they've had done whatever it is they came their for then pissed off without paying a penny. That has to be one of the dumbest threads I've read and there are plenty on TV.

[billd766]

One of the few things we did right over the last few years....despite the Republican party and those like Donald Trump.

Many states, including my state of Massachusetts, passed a law t a few years ago that allows any adult to choose if they do not want to be kept alive in a hospital when the Doctors involved admit there is no reasonable chance that there condition will improve if they are maintained on life support.

In Massachusetts, it is called a "Living Will", and it allows a person to decide before they go into hospital to refuse the doctors the right to extend their life by artificial means.(as a Heart Lung Machine)

When my father died he was totally paralyzed for several weeks due to a stroke, and unable to speak or move anything but the fingers of his left hand.

My father was a WWII vet, and that gave him the right to be in a VA hospital.

He died 1 day short of his 80th birthday. My father had designated my brother as his representative to make the decision to turn of life support.....and the entire family decided that since my farther had previously made that decision, we would reluctantly honor his choice.

As Dad told us all, "Damn it, I don't want to lie around like a vegetable, let me go when it's my time".

Not an easy decision for all of us, especially my brother, but Dad had made hi wishes clear, and we had to do what he asked.

It should be the right of any intelligent human being to choose to die if he or she can not be kept alive without artificial means (by a machine).

Of course, that may not apply to Donald Trump and his supporters; as they may not qualify as intelligent human beings.

It is quite possible and quite legal to make a living will here in Thailand.

I have already done so a few years back.

living_will_regulation_(Thailand)_English_by_Isaan_Lawyers.pdf

Living Wills in Thailand - Regulation in Thai.pdf

[Scouse123]

The only way I see this situation (and I am sorry for the loss to the family,RIP to the lady), is this way. The lady had been plagued with ill health for a long time and also had arthritis.

I cannot believe travel insurance would not given due to existing pre condition of arthritis.

If it was refused for something more serious, why did she not take her holiday in Europe??

Multiple reasons for this, such as EU healthcare, nearer home, more chance of family getting over to her quickly in an emergency, less chance of being hooked up to a machine that MAYBE is (a) Doing no good and the Thais are simply dragging it out because they think there is insurance to be had or ( They think the family will find the money to pay for expensive treatments.

I doubt very much when she collapsed she would have been taken to a state hospital when they saw it was a foreigner.

Lastly, to the poster blaming the UK government and saying shame on them, you really expect the UK government to repatriate every person who gets ill abroad and has no insurance??

What next? every clown that overstays and ends up in IDC or every criminal released around the world gets their air fares paid back to the UK?

That would be irresponsible to the taxpayer by the UK government. People have to take responsibility for themselves and their associated costs when travelling and that includes insurance, which seems to be completely missing a mention in the news summary.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Scouse123

[paulbj2]

Britain's NHS does it all the time. It an't known as the World's favourite health service for nothing.

There was a case fairly recently where a Nigerian woman having triplets (ectopic) had treatment worth £140,000 on the NHS, then swanned-off back to Lagos without paying a penny!

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

The NHS primarily treats sick people - and then gives them the bill...from time to time they don't pay, but at least they are alive. Many tourists in Britain owe their lives to the NHS.

Yes, I understand that the NHS in the UK will provide life saving emergency treatment to anyone who needs it regardless of their right to receive free treatment under the NHS or of their financial status. This is the case in all civilized countries and that is also as it should be. Belgium, where I have lived in the past, even has a national fund specifically to pay the bills for emergency treatment of those unfortunate enough to fall ill whilst uninsured in their territory. The general principle being "save the patient first; worry about the bill later"

The NHS in the UK, and the equivalent in most other countries, will however not provide routine, non-emergency, treatment unless the patient is entitled to such treatment under the NHS system or has the ability to pay for it themselves.

This is all exactly as it should be.

[Basil B]

Britain's NHS does it all the time. It an't known as the World's favourite health service for nothing.

There was a case fairly recently where a Nigerian woman having triplets (ectopic) had treatment worth £140,000 on the NHS, then swanned-off back to Lagos without paying a penny!

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Recall talking to a Flemish guy about Brexit a couple of weeks ago, he was a highly skilled person working in the UK.

told me about a colleague who needed a few days hospital treatment, he was insured but NHS hospital admin said it was to much trouble to bill him.

[paulbj2]

As I understand it, so long as one can prove 3 months of residency (utility bill etc), former Brit expats can use the service on their return.

Expats from UK, who paid in N.I. for years, who return home for a holiday, are liable for all medical costs, I believe ?

So medical insurance would have to be purchased by them, despite the thousands paid in over their working lives.

I have not been back for well over a decade, so how can I prove 3 months residency ?

When there, I paid my full dues, which is a hell of a lot more than certain people receiving treatment there now ever will pay.

I needed to see a GP when I was back in the UK on holiday recently. As I am a Luxembourg resident with Social Security card from that country, I presented the card at the GPs surgery expecting them to have me fill in a form or take down the number on the card or photocopy it or something, but no. They said "no don't bother with the card, we'll take your word for it". Silly so-and-sos, if they had recorded details of my cover, they could claim back the cost of my consultation from the Luxembourg health care system but they couldn't be arsed. More fool them! Everyone in Britain complains the NHS is underfunded but they don't even claim the payments they are entitled to!

[elgenon]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

I think you should research a little more into how travel insurance works.

It is ok for the short time tourist on holiday but it does nothing for a traveler.

Yearly travel insurance is available, Not limited to one trip.

[Tomtomtom69]

Britain's NHS does it all the time. It an't known as the World's favourite health service for nothing.

There was a case fairly recently where a Nigerian woman having triplets (ectopic) had treatment worth £140,000 on the NHS, then swanned-off back to Lagos without paying a penny!

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

British taxpayers are stupid for paying foreigner's medical bills. They should have kicked said person onto the streets.

While everyone in a genuine emergency should be treated first THEN asked to pay later, no one and especially not a foreigner (except in exceptional cases) should be discharged without payment.

[Tomtomtom69]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

I think you should research a little more into how travel insurance works.

It is ok for the short time tourist on holiday but it does nothing for a traveler.

Yearly travel insurance is available, Not limited to one trip.

Travel insurance policies can be extended for periods of up to 18 months at a time, depending on the insurer, as long as you continue to maintain your residence in the country that issued the policy. Generally speaking, there is no need to "prove" residency by any means other than returning home at the end of this period should you wish to take up a new policy for your next trip.

For expats that don't travel much, local expat based policies are available, though they generally limit coverage to Thailand only and also have limits on coverage whereas many overseas based policies have no limits.

[louse1953]

Any surcharge imposed by Thailand is going to be questionable - firstly in such a corrupt society it is very likely it will be abused.

\furthermore the TAT would not like to further damage their reputation in the west for imposing charges and restrictions on foreigners wishing to holiday here. They already charge on visas, airport exit tax, ATMs etc etc...just another mark up in a litany of little things that annoy.

Like every other country and visas are free for nearly all.But don't let the truth stop you having a bash.

[louse1953]

Her family couldn't come

Up with less than $2,000??

More like they didn't WANT

TOO...

Pounds, not baht! Strewth, try reading.

You are hilarious - picking on someone for not reading - and not reading either since he put $ not baht

55,the pound has dropped but the day when $2000 equals 36000 pommy peso is the day i'm off to Pommyland to buy my poor Pommy mates a warm beer.

[louse1953]

Rip , I don't know if the lady had insurance or adequate insurance but maybe the way forward would be to make insurance compulsory when entering the country. When checking passports on arrival check if the visitor has insurance from their home country if not make it compulsory to buy it here before being allowed to enter the country. That could save a visitors life and also save Thailand money

Typical govt thinking,outsource the work.Do the checking at the departure end.No insurance,no go.

[paulbj2]

Britain's NHS does it all the time. It an't known as the World's favourite health service for nothing.

There was a case fairly recently where a Nigerian woman having triplets (ectopic) had treatment worth £140,000 on the NHS, then swanned-off back to Lagos without paying a penny!

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

The NHS primarily treats sick people - and then gives them the bill...from time to time they don't pay, but at least they are alive. Many tourists in Britain owe their lives to the NHS.

"Elsewhere, staff are still trying to bill a mother who flew in to have triplets and racked up total costs of almost £320,000.

Figures show NHS hospitals are currently owed about £65million from foreign patients. This is thought to be an underestimate as most are never identified.

The details have only been revealed by using the Freedom of Information Act to put questions to all 160 NHS hospital trusts".

It may seem a huge sum of money to us mere mortals living on a pension but for an organisation like the NHS whose budget for 2015/16 is £116.4 billion (that's £116,400,000,000) £65 million is a drop in the ocean; 0.0558% of the annual budget, in fact

The simple answer to this and a range of other issues in the benighted UK is a properly implemented Identity database. The Blair/Brown labour government started down this road at a cost of £ billions and even reached the stage of issuing the first few ID cards to, I think, airport staff. It became a very unpopular idea when the ship of fools that was the Gordon Brown premiership decided that they would be obligatory and that they would cost £50. Obligatory, no problem; but £50 BIG problem. If only they had just bitten the bullet and said they would be free! Unsurprisingly, the incoming Tory government of David Cameron cancelled the nearly completed project at a cost of £ billions to the taxpayer.

If a system of photo ID cards were implemented, a persons entitlement to NHS treatment could be checked with the card (via the central database that sits behind any such system) and anyone without a card would automatically be entitled to emergency treatment only.

It presents zero technical challenge to do this along with 100s of other useful services. Moving house: then change your address on the ID card database and everyone who sends you a bill is automatically updated without you having to contact every damned one of them. Most countries in Europe already have a system like this and they work really well. Why not the British!

[louse1953]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Why shouldn't they/? Thais get treated in NZ for emergency , if tourists ,we just don't let them die, it's treatment first questions later.

36k pound sounds a bit steep for just keeping her alive , I would like to know which hospital that was??

Sounds very cruel to me and non humanitarian, but that's common in this world where illness is a big money industry, the big corporates fill you up with pollution, insecticides GM food, raise the pension age, then poisen you to death with toxic treatments on the way out at huge costs.

Your getting severaly clipped in life and more so on the way out.

Dissgusting.

Medical insurance? well you might not worry if your ok but for a short term holiday you can get your credit card company to insure you for a small fee, worth it I think.

Long term medical insurance is so expensive that many take the risk.

Reciprocal agreements would be nice, but to hard for a politician to digest without a big donation, the staus quo win the money at all times. Sad.

Don't know if you read the story,but they did treat first and certainly did not let her die,against family wishes. now they want the money.

[flyingdoc]

Of course travel insurance is sensible, but as many posts have pointed out, it is not always available due to age, length of time abroad, or will not cover pre-existing conditions!

[Strangebrew]

This is a serious subject so with that in mind One must cover ones butt. Having insurance in your home country is fine it might be wise to have some insurance in case it is needed and to have extra insurance to cover and pay then translate and submit claim to your home country insurance for repayment of coverage granted you. Yes it may cost you but the cost is well worth the peace of mind.

[paulbj2]

Britain's NHS does it all the time. It an't known as the World's favourite health service for nothing.

There was a case fairly recently where a Nigerian woman having triplets (ectopic) had treatment worth £140,000 on the NHS, then swanned-off back to Lagos without paying a penny!

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

British taxpayers are stupid for paying foreigner's medical bills. They should have kicked said person onto the streets.

While everyone in a genuine emergency should be treated first THEN asked to pay later, no one and especially not a foreigner (except in exceptional cases) should be discharged without payment.

There are some astoundingly stupid people on this forum. If a patient admitted to a UK hospital, is not entitled to free treatment but falls ill or is involved in an accident in the UK and has to be treated at the NHS's expense, how is refusing to discharge them going to help the NHS in any way. One of the biggest problems the NHS faces is a shortage of beds due in part to the fact that they cannot discharge patients until there is somewhere for them to go. In the case of the elderly, this can mean they cannot be discharged until some nursing home or sheltered accommodation can be arranged. There is a shortage of that so it can take some time. These patients are called "bed-blockers" and they are an increasing problem for the overstretched NHS. You think it's going to help to create a few more "bed-blockers" held in hospital captivity until they pay their bill; how exactly are you going to stop them just walking out the door, chain them to their bed!

[anotheruser]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

I don't know... because it would have been the decent thing to do?

[Basil B]

It may seem a huge sum of money to us mere mortals living on a pension but for an organisation like the NHS whose budget for 2015/16 is £116.4 billion (that's £116,400,000,000) £65 million is a drop in the ocean; 0.0558% of the annual budget, in fact

The simple answer to this and a range of other issues in the benighted UK is a properly implemented Identity database. The Blair/Brown labour government started down this road at a cost of £ billions and even reached the stage of issuing the first few ID cards to, I think, airport staff. It became a very unpopular idea when the ship of fools that was the Gordon Brown premiership decided that they would be obligatory and that they would cost £50. Obligatory, no problem; but £50 BIG problem. If only they had just bitten the bullet and said they would be free! Unsurprisingly, the incoming Tory government of David Cameron cancelled the nearly completed project at a cost of £ billions to the taxpayer.

If a system of photo ID cards were implemented, a persons entitlement to NHS treatment could be checked with the card (via the central database that sits behind any such system) and anyone without a card would automatically be entitled to emergency treatment only.

It presents zero technical challenge to do this along with 100s of other useful services. Moving house: then change your address on the ID card database and everyone who sends you a bill is automatically updated without you having to contact every damned one of them. Most countries in Europe already have a system like this and they work really well. Why not the British!

£65 million, but that's the ones they have billed...

My guess is that 65m could be many times that, that money could be used by the the NHS to help NI contributors abroad.

If a system of photo ID cards were implemented, a persons entitlement to NHS treatment could be checked with the card (via the central database that sits behind any such system) and anyone without a card would automatically be entitled to emergency treatment only.

We do not need cards any more, bio-metrics on a national database, photo up on a screen or fingerprint scanner.

[louse1953]

$2,000= B 70,000. Do the math yourself

What is this $2,000 thing? I find no reference to it (at least not easily) so the math is meaningless...

Check your post #65,and while your at it,get a check for altzymers.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Why not sell mandatory travel insurance with plane tickets for travelers with a tourist visa.

And at a shop next to immigration for everybody that enters Thailand by land with a tourist visa.

Problem solved

I think it's a fair point that basic insurance should be mandatory if a country doesn't not have an NHS as Britain does

What a stupid idea. Many credit cards offer medical insurance.

[anto]

>>how exactly are you going to stop them just walking out the door, chain them to their bed!<<

There's an idea !!!

[anotheruser]

Why not sell mandatory travel insurance with plane tickets for travelers with a tourist visa.

And at a shop next to immigration for everybody that enters Thailand by land with a tourist visa.

Problem solved

I think it's a fair point that basic insurance should be mandatory if a country doesn't not have an NHS as Britain does

What a stupid idea. Many credit cards offer medical insurance.

Then the insurance requirement would be met by the credit card.

[Andrew65]

Britain's NHS does it all the time. It an't known as the World's favourite health service for nothing.

There was a case fairly recently where a Nigerian woman having triplets (ectopic) had treatment worth £140,000 on the NHS, then swanned-off back to Lagos without paying a penny!

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

British taxpayers are stupid for paying foreigner's medical bills. They should have kicked said person onto the streets.

While everyone in a genuine emergency should be treated first THEN asked to pay later, no one and especially not a foreigner (except in exceptional cases) should be discharged without payment.

There are some astoundingly stupid people on this forum. If a patient admitted to a UK hospital, is not entitled to free treatment but falls ill or is involved in an accident in the UK and has to be treated at the NHS's expense, how is refusing to discharge them going to help the NHS in any way. One of the biggest problems the NHS faces is a shortage of beds due in part to the fact that they cannot discharge patients until there is somewhere for them to go. In the case of the elderly, this can mean they cannot be discharged until some nursing home or sheltered accommodation can be arranged. There is a shortage of that so it can take some time. These patients are called "bed-blockers" and they are an increasing problem for the overstretched NHS. You think it's going to help to create a few more "bed-blockers" held in hospital captivity until they pay their bill; how exactly are you going to stop them just walking out the door, chain them to their bed!

Yes, but in the UK, healthcare tourism seems to be the thing, people who are ill, or pregnant with complications, jumping on a plane to the UK for some free treatment.

The flight from Lagos Nigeria to London is known as the "Lagos-Express" for this reason.

Britain really is a soft touch, I would think that one mention of the "R" word gets these people anything they want.