Immigration Refuses to Accept 90 Day Report

[Old Croc]

Today Patong Immigration refused to accept my 90 day report delivered by my wife.

She has been lodging these reports for me for many years without incident. I am in a wheelchair, and my lady passes that office frequently because she has a nearby business, so it has been a convenient place to lodge it. Last time they only required my passport to get the notification processed.

This time I had completed the TM47, provided signed copies of every relevent passport page and completed the new Personal Information form with photograph. This was not enough! They insisted I had to appear in person! They were shown evidence I was in a wheelchair, but still refused.

As all are aware, it's possible to do these reports online (if you're one of the lucky ones for whom it works), you can mail it in, or you can use an agent to lodge it for you. None of these methods require the applicant to present personally at the office. The logic involved in insisting a close relative cannot do this simple deed is something perhaps only a local can understand.

The need for this "prison parole" type reporting at all, for genuine people, would be a reasonable argument for another time.

The Department has a new slogan "Good guys in, bad guys out". I have assumed the "bad guys" to be criminals hiding illegally in the country, people who abuse visa provisions, work illegally or overstay.

However, the Department's main strategy to combat the "bad guys" seems to be to make life as difficult as possible for the "good guys". They continue to invent new ways to make people jump through hoops culminating in this intrusive, Personal Information form.

It appears they are blissfully unaware that usually the "bad guys" don't bother to report in! The "good guys", some of whom have been here for decades without breaching rules, are being harassed to the point where many are now considering leaving.

They don't care about the money genuine people bring into the country. I, and many others, don't eke out a living here on an old age pension, instead I contribute millions each year to the economy. My wife's businesses have provided employment for dozens, I've paid for 3 kids to go through college, my wife spends ridiculous amounts at local retail outlets and I've practically paid for a wing at my local international hospital!

Today, for the first time, I'm starting to think about alternatives!

Perhaps this is the ultimate aim - "farang out , Chinese in",

[sas_cars]

Immigration has become much more strict recently due to the slogan which you mentioned. However, it's an extreme thing which you mentioned that they didn't accept your 90 day reporting. Maybe your wife met a moody officer at a wrong time. Maybe she should try another day with another office who'll be more understanding.

[thai3]

Senseless, I have had to give 4 pp copies now for quite a time, last time it went to 5. I asked them if they did postal and they said 'not really' Online does not work for me but at least I can get the bus. Must be distressing if wheelchair bound. So how did you do it in the end? It might have been the information form that made a personal appearance needed?

[Shot]

"The logic involved in insisting a close relative cannot do this simple deed is something perhaps only a local can understand."

The problem is.....there is no logic....none. One day it's no copies, following time it's 1 copy of one thing or the other and the following time it's something else. I wonder who's 5 year old is in charge?

Sorry OC about he problem.

Please let us know how it turns out.

[Scott]

Moved to Visa section.

[ubonjoe]

All i can suggest is for her to try and do the report at the main immigration office. Perhaps Patong has set their own rules.

There certainly have been no change to the rules that allow her to do it for you. It is mentioned here on the immigration website. http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=90days

"Procedure and notification

1. The foreigner makes the notification in person, or

2. The foreigner authorises another person to make the notification, or"

My wife has done more of my reports than I have. All she has ever needed was the T47 form and my passport. The only ones I have done in person in recent years have been when I did one my with my extension application,

[ubonjoe]

A abusive and inflammatory post has been removed.

[daveAustin]

A case of I'm-a-big-man lone officer standing their ground? Can you not go through the agent method in Phuket, such as the likes of Assist in Chiang Mai where you pay for them to take care of the extension and all reports?

[Old Croc]

Immigration has become much more strict recently due to the slogan which you mentioned. However, it's an extreme thing which you mentioned that they didn't accept your 90 day reporting. Maybe your wife met a moody officer at a wrong time. Maybe she should try another day with another office who'll be more understanding.

Yes, the other office on another day may be the way.

[nabbie]

Sorry to hear what happening at Patong Immigration. Purely a bad luck due to his unprofessional discrete. I hope you will find the better officer next time.

[Old Croc]

A case of I'm-a-big-man lone officer standing their ground? Can you not go through the agent method in Phuket, such as the likes of Assist in Chiang Mai where you pay for them to take care of the extension and all reports?

It seems they want people to use agents where a commission can be part of the deal..

However, for a simple report, it is ludicrous to pay thousands for someone to carry a form into an office.

[Old Croc]

All i can suggest is for her to try and do the report at the main immigration office. Perhaps Patong has set their own rules.

There certainly have been no change to the rules that allow her to do it for you. It is mentioned here on the immigration website. http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=90days

"Procedure and notification

1. The foreigner makes the notification in person, or

2. The foreigner authorises another person to make the notification, or"

My wife has done more of my reports than I have. All she has ever needed was the T47 form and my passport. The only ones I have done in person in recent years have been when I did one my with my extension application,

I guess they interpret part 2 to mean an agent who pays commission, not a relative. .

[chiang mai]

A case of I'm-a-big-man lone officer standing their ground? Can you not go through the agent method in Phuket, such as the likes of Assist in Chiang Mai where you pay for them to take care of the extension and all reports?

It seems they want people to use agents where a commission can be part of the deal..

However, for a simple report, it is ludicrous to pay thousands for someone to carry a form into an office.

FWIW four 90 day reports via an agent in my neck of the woods costs THB 1,000 per year, that's THB 250 each.

[Old Croc]

Sorry to hear what happening at Patong Immigration. Purely a bad luck due to his unprofessional discrete. I hope you will find the better officer next time.

Thankyou.

[Evilbaz]

I am also disabled and my wife has reported at Patong for me for about 7 years.

The only time I've gone in person was for a re-entry permit - after waiting 1.5 hours they told me my niece could do it for me.!

They used to just accept a passport only as all the info was in the computer database (it still is!)

Complain higher up (out of the Province) - there is a Complaints number for Aliens.

Having to use a paid "agent" for a simple function is ludicrous.

If they accept it from another person (agent) then they have to accept it from another person (your wife).

Arm her with the appropriate gazetted Police Order and send her back!

Ask for the Boss.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Evilbaz

[Old Croc]

A case of I'm-a-big-man lone officer standing their ground? Can you not go through the agent method in Phuket, such as the likes of Assist in Chiang Mai where you pay for them to take care of the extension and all reports?

It seems they want people to use agents where a commission can be part of the deal..

However, for a simple report, it is ludicrous to pay thousands for someone to carry a form into an office.

FWIW four 90 day reports via an agent in my neck of the woods costs THB 1,000 per year, that's THB 250 each.

That's a reasonable price, I haven't heard of anyone here at that price. It doesn't leave much for the guy with his hand out.

[ripstanley]

A case of I'm-a-big-man lone officer standing their ground? Can you not go through the agent method in Phuket, such as the likes of Assist in Chiang Mai where you pay for them to take care of the extension and all reports?

It seems they want people to use agents where a commission can be part of the deal..

However, for a simple report, it is ludicrous to pay thousands for someone to carry a form into an office.

I totally agree. Why should they feather the agents and their own nests. Good luck Old Croc.

[Old Croc]

I am also disabled and my wife has reported at Patong for me for about 7 years.

The only time I've gone in person was for a re-entry permit - after waiting 1.5 hours they told me my niece could do it for me.!

They used to just accept a passport only as all the info was in the computer database (it still is!)

Complain higher up (out of the Province) - there is a Complaints number for Aliens.

My wife has always done the reporting, and most of my extensions without me being present.

Today was the first time they wouldn't accept the reporting,

Recently for extensions they have required me for their happy snaps.

[NamKangMan]

Sorry to hear about this inconvenience, OC.

I'm not sure why this has been moved to the Visa Forum when it only appears to be happening on Phuket.

Anyway, I would suggest you tell your wife to go to the other Immigration Office on Phuket and try there, or, maybe she can go again in a day or so, and hopefully get a different Immigration Officer that simply accepts the paperwork.

The more I read about the never ending paperwork required and various inconsistencies here, the more I am glad to be residing here on tourist visas.

In the past, "visa running" was considered a real pain, but as they make things harder and harder for long term expats here, tourist visas and visa runs are looking more and more easier and reliable, although I accept it would not be easier for those with a disability.

[Evilbaz]

I am also disabled and my wife has reported at Patong for me for about 7 years.

The only time I've gone in person was for a re-entry permit - after waiting 1.5 hours they told me my niece could do it for me.!

They used to just accept a passport only as all the info was in the computer database (it still is!)

Complain higher up (out of the Province) - there is a Complaints number for Aliens.

My wife has always done the reporting, and most of my extensions without me being present.

Today was the first time they wouldn't accept the reporting,

Recently for extensions they have required me for their happy snaps.

At least Retirement extensions are downstairs in Phuket after many complaints.

[Ajahnski]

I'm sorry, but I gotta call bullshit (in the technical sense) on your immigration office. I had a similar situation when our local corrupt immigration office tried to refuse a 90 day report by mail. I went to another immigration office armed with a copy of the Licensing Facilitation Act of 2015. (LFA)

Simply stated, they do not have the authortity to demand that you give a 90 day report in person. If they demand that, then they are acting illegally.

I wrote up my story and posted it on my blog. I use my story to explain the LFA and how it operates. It was a topic here at TVF a few months ago, and I know there is still a link somewhere to that article to help people understand the law.

If it were me, I would get a copy of the LFA and make a formal corruption complaint at the regional immigration office (as suggested above) or with the local RTP. Or, I know that Prayuth has set up an office to take complaints about government corruption. Heck, I'd write up my complaint and send it to all three. (My situation is different from yours, however. I'm disgusted with all the stupidity here, and plan to leave this cesspool of sychophants after this year's contract is done.)

Here's the blog article. I think someone else may have the link to the original post here on TVF, where there is a lot of good dialogue.

http://diogeneticlight.blogspot.com/2016/04/thailands-licensing-facilitation-act-of.html

I

[NamKangMan]

Perhaps The Phuket Gazette might run with the story and get some clarification on this issue.

[Evilbaz]

If you don't complain - nothing ever changes.

I have no doubt that Immi watches this sub-forum.

Outside publicity gets action quick-smart.

[swissie]

The "Immigration-Situation" was not the only criteria that made me abandon my "Thailand-Retirement-Project". There were many other reasons. I believe, I left as long as the leaving was still good.

The way things are developing in Thailand, some Farangs must have gotten the impression that they have "overstayed their welcome". I was one of them.

Cheers.

[Old Croc]

I'm sorry, but I gotta call bullshit (in the technical sense) on your immigration office. I had a similar situation when our local corrupt immigration office tried to refuse a 90 day report by mail. I went to another immigration office armed with a copy of the Licensing Facilitation Act of 2015. (LFA)

Simply stated, they do not have the authortity to demand that you give a 90 day report in person. If they demand that, then they are acting illegally.

I wrote up my story and posted it on my blog. I use my story to explain the LFA and how it operates. It was a topic here at TVF a few months ago, and I know there is still a link somewhere to that article to help people understand the law.

If it were me, I would get a copy of the LFA and make a formal corruption complaint at the regional immigration office (as suggested above) or with the local RTP. Or, I know that Prayuth has set up an office to take complaints about government corruption. Heck, I'd write up my complaint and send it to all three. (My situation is different from yours, however. I'm disgusted with all the stupidity here, and plan to leave this cesspool of sychophants after this year's contract is done.)

Here's the blog article. I think someone else may have the link to the original post here on TVF, where there is a lot of good dialogue.

http://diogeneticlight.blogspot.com/2016/04/thailands-licensing-facilitation-act-of.html

I

Thanks, but although I've been a stirrer in the past, I'm now looking for a quieter, hassle free life in retirement, apart from the occasional dig at some posters on this forum.

I know of people being railroaded out after upsetting some of the bureaucracy here, rule of law doesn't always apply. If I have to go I want it to be on my terms.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Old Croc

[Ajahnski]

Old Croc,

I can't fault you for not wanting to get involved in a fight. Honestly, it's not even your fight, it's their fight (their amazing incompetence vs the law), and they are trying to drag you into it.

For what it's worth, however, there MAY be some positive changes afoot. (Okay, that's a really, really big may, but it's possible.) When I had the confrontation at the new office in my story, I specifically told the officer at the new office about the corruption and constant extortion I experienced. I also told her that I know for a fact that other people from my area went to the new office b/c of the corruption at the old office.

A couple months after that, I needed to do an extension. At my wife's insistence, we went to the old office in our local province. The old office is now officially under the direction of the new office, and they have new staff. (I didn't realize this until I spoke with my wife tonight about having to go in for another extension.) Apparently, the lady at the old office that caused so many problems has been moved out of that office. I don't know if it's completely new staff, but, from what my wife understood, it is.

Now, was that office cleaned out b/c of me? Of course not. They asked me why I didn't go to the old office, and I told them. I'm sure other people did the same thing when they were asked. Maybe offering my hands to be cuffed and telling them to arrest me b/c I wouldn't pay the illegal fine was a tipping point?

[hagler]

Surely it wont be the end of the world to head down there and report in person and cause them to lose face ?

I think they will be happy with your wife doing it the next time after that

[Old Croc]

Surely it wont be the end of the world to head down there and report in person and cause them to lose face ?

I think they will be happy with your wife doing it the next time after that

Not the end of the world, but as I'm disabled and in a wheelchair, and the Patong office is not very accessible, I can't use that office.

[jaaaason]

Some people complain about using an agent , but I prefer to do it that way. I have lived in several countries and I have always found it far more convenient to use agents then do it myself.I n my area , Chiang Mai the agents charge 5000 baht per year for four extensions and one yearly retirement...plus government fees. I find that reasonable in relation to the hassle of going there and standing in lines. I did do it myself once. I arrived at the Chiang Mai immigration near the airport at 2 am and even then was only number six in line. It was 4:30 in the afternoon before I walked out of that office with everything done. After that I have used agents for everything.

[thai3]

legally you have to apply for extensions yearly in person, having said that I know a Chinese national who gets a yearly visa from the Thai passport office, not joking.

Edited July 28, 2016 by thai3