Thailand Referendum: Draft constitution wins approval

[halloween]

Just now, heybruce said:

No.  But I don't rule out that the junta counted the ballots, unsupervised, didn't like the results, and announced results they did like.

 

Of course you don't, you would accept any anti-junta conspiracy theory. Now tell us how you keep that a secret when thousands of people were involved in the counting?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

23 minutes ago, heybruce said:

" One thing that is clear, to me at least, is that those in charge at the time did virtually nothing to prevent it or apprehend those responsible."

 

What did you want the government to do?  Send in the police with batons swinging, tear gas and live ammunition?  That would have provoked the coup that Suthep wanted and the military insisted upon.

 

I wasn't talking about the police's handling of the anti Yingluck/PTP protests themselves. I was talking about the repeated criminal attacks on various protesters and generally peaceful protest sites around Bangkok and elsewhere -- shootings, bombings, etc. The police from all appearances did little or nothing to apprehend those responsible or prevent such crimes from occurring.

 

One  could make the argument that the police had no motivation to stop those attacks, because the police supported the government in place at the time, and not the protesters who wanted the government removed.

 

Edited August 9, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Hawk]

4 minutes ago, halloween said:

 

Of course you don't, you would accept any anti-junta conspiracy theory. Now tell us how you keep that a secret when thousands of people were involved in the counting?

 

Many voting stations throughout the country had only a few government officers in attendance, no one else and no cameras either. 

[Hawk]

17 minutes ago, halloween said:

And now the losers come out with conspiracy theories, on top of all the pathetic excuses and misdirections. Tell me, do you think the junta managed to stuff 7,000,000 fake votes into ballot boxes?

 

The army recruits are good for something or other?

[heybruce]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I wasn't talking about the police's handling of the anti Yingluck/PTP protests themselves. I was talking about the repeated criminal attacks on various protesters and generally peaceful protest sites around Bangkok and elsewhere -- shootings, bombings, etc. The police from all appearances did little or nothing to apprehend those responsible or prevent such crimes from occurring.

 

One  could make the argument that the police had no motivation to stop those attacks, because the police supported the government in place at the time, and not the protesters who wanted the government removed.

 

How long have you been in Thailand?  Have you not noticed the police are incompetent?  If it makes you feel better, they also did a poor job of capturing the Suthep supporters who were firing rifles, throwing grenades and disrupting elections.

[halloween]

3 minutes ago, Hawk said:

 

Many voting stations throughout the country had only a few government officers in attendance, no one else and no cameras either. 

 

And you think they did the counting there, or they used the smaller polling stations to dump in all the fake yes votes? Do you know how petty your cheating suggestion sounds on such a large win?

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

[heybruce]

17 minutes ago, halloween said:

 

Of course you don't, you would accept any anti-junta conspiracy theory. Now tell us how you keep that a secret when thousands of people were involved in the counting?

How many were responsible for tallying the results of these thousands of vote counters, and who did they work for?

 

The military is in place by way of an illegal coup, the military is involved in a wide variety illegal activities, and the junta supporters insist that votes in Thailand are routinely bought or otherwise corrupted.  In spite of all this the junta did not allow independent monitoring of the election.

 

Yeah, I'm a little suspicious of the results. 

 

Please remind me, are you one of the many that believe the independently monitored 2011 election was corrupt?

Edited August 9, 2016 by heybruce
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[heybruce]

8 minutes ago, halloween said:

 

And you think they did the counting there, or they used the smaller polling stations to dump in all the fake yes votes? Do you know how petty your cheating suggestion sounds on such a large win?

Not as petty as the repeated vote buying claims made about every election since 2000.

[robblok]

15 hours ago, heybruce said:

How many were responsible for tallying the results of these thousands of vote counters, and who did they work for?

 

The military is in place by way of an illegal coup, the military is involved in a wide variety illegal activities, and the junta supporters insist that votes in Thailand are routinely bought or otherwise corrupted.  In spite of all this the junta did not allow independent monitoring of the election.

 

Yeah, I'm a little suspicious of the results. 

 

Please remind me, are you one of the many that believe the independently monitored 2011 election was corrupt?

 

You just can't accept your side lost the vote. To cheat at the votes at a large scale there would be too many people involved to keep it a secret it is just not possible. You know the saying 2 can keep a secret if 1 is dead. 

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

 

You just can't accept your side lost the vote. To cheat at the votes at a large scale there would be too many people involved to keep it a secret it is just not possible. You know the saying 2 can keep a secret if 1 is dead. 

What a a surprise, the junta supporters maintain the 2011 election that was independently monitored and conducted with free speech and press had results corrupted by cheating.  Now they insist that the results of an election with no independent monitoring and conducted with harsh censorship of speech and press are legitimate.  You would never accept the results of an election conducted under these circumstances if it had been held under a PTP government.

 

How do you know it would take the cooperation of thousands of people to report false results?  Has the junta released a breakdown of the vote by precinct?  Will it allow a competent, impartial party to check the results? 

 

" You know the saying 2 can keep a secret if 1 is dead."

 

I agree with that.  That's why I don't believe the PTP government could have been behind the violence in 2014 without some evidence emerging.  However you believe the opposite.

[halloween]

23 hours ago, heybruce said:

Not as petty as the repeated vote buying claims made about every election since 2000.

 

IMO handing cash to voters is ineffective. Now tell me PTP's election policies were not outright mass vote-buying?

[LannaGuy]

27 minutes ago, halloween said:

 

IMO handing cash to voters is ineffective. Now tell me PTP's election policies were not outright mass vote-buying?

 

not this old propaganda again? been disproved 100s of times!  wake up and smell the coffee!

[heybruce]

17 minutes ago, halloween said:

 

IMO handing cash to voters is ineffective. Now tell me PTP's election policies were not outright mass vote-buying?

The topic is a referendum conducted in a blatantly unfair manner that was wide open to vote count manipulation.  But if you insist on changing the subject to government funds used to purchase support in key areas:

 

"Currently, 72 % of Thailand's general public expenditures are being spent in Bangkok, which is home to 17% of the country’s population and produces 26% of the GDP. In contrast, the Northeast, which holds 34 % of the country's population, receives 6% of the expenditures." http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2012/05/10/thailand-public-finance-management-review-report 

 

72% represents a decline from the pre-Thaksin days, when Bangkok received 90% of public expenditures.  That is why Bangkok was building state-of-the-art infrastructure in 2000 while the rest of Thailand lived in third world conditions.  That is also why it is so easy to get Bangkok residents to oppose democratically elected government, they don't like sharing the nation's wealth with the rest of the nation.

 

If you look at page 32 of this World Bank document http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/993671468118138134/pdf/674860ESW0P1180019006020120RB0EDITS.pdf  you will see that per capita spending on health and education is six times higher in Bangkok than the rest of Thailand.  Would you consider it unaffordable populism, or vote buying, if an elected government attempted to correct this gross disparity?

 

 

[halloween]

10 minutes ago, heybruce said:

The topic is a referendum conducted in a blatantly unfair manner that was wide open to vote count manipulation.  But if you insist on changing the subject to government funds used to purchase support in key areas:

 

"Currently, 72 % of Thailand's general public expenditures are being spent in Bangkok, which is home to 17% of the country’s population and produces 26% of the GDP. In contrast, the Northeast, which holds 34 % of the country's population, receives 6% of the expenditures." http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2012/05/10/thailand-public-finance-management-review-report 

 

72% represents a decline from the pre-Thaksin days, when Bangkok received 90% of public expenditures.  That is why Bangkok was building state-of-the-art infrastructure in 2000 while the rest of Thailand lived in third world conditions.  That is also why it is so easy to get Bangkok residents to oppose democratically elected government, they don't like sharing the nation's wealth with the rest of the nation.

 

If you look at page 32 of this World Bank document http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/993671468118138134/pdf/674860ESW0P1180019006020120RB0EDITS.pdf  you will see that per capita spending on health and education is six times higher in Bangkok than the rest of Thailand.  Would you consider it unaffordable populism, or vote buying, if an elected government attempted to correct this gross disparity?

 

 

There is a vast difference to infrastructure improvement and cash handouts to your supporters. But PTP's policies went far further than that, pay rises for everyone, subsidies for cars and homes, and tablets for every child. of course most of it turned out to be BS.

[heybruce]

14 minutes ago, halloween said:

There is a vast difference to infrastructure improvement and cash handouts to your supporters. But PTP's policies went far further than that, pay rises for everyone, subsidies for cars and homes, and tablets for every child. of course most of it turned out to be BS.

I don't defend how the PTP spent the taxpayer's money, I just pointed out that junta supporters are outraged at the relatively small amount of money that went into misguided subsidies while ignoring that the bulk of government spending goes to provide schools, health care and infrastructure to the sinking city of Bangkok while neglecting the rest of the country.  Of course a significant part of that money is skimmed off by civil servants and other government officials and cronies, but apparently this aspect of government is not up for reform.

 

The incompetence of the PTP government could and should have been dealt with by elections, not a coup.  At least with democracy Thailand would get the government the voters deserve.  Thailand does not deserve to be ruled by a corrupt group of above-the-law millionaire generals.

Edited August 10, 2016 by heybruce
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