Thailand Referendum: Draft constitution wins approval

[louse1953]

15 minutes ago, Winniedapu said:

 

 

So when did you see the flow of money?  My experience as a foreigner in Thailand is that Thais do not let foreigners into their confidence, while trying to create the impression that they do.

 

Winnie

You would have to be blind not to see it at rallies.That's your experience,mine differs.Maybe they don't trust you.Even got two hundred for myself a long time ago,by mistake.

Edited August 8, 2016 by louse1953
Forgot something

[Winniedapu]

4 hours ago, MaxLee said:

Big brother will rule in Thailand 4EVER....

 

 

Maybe not for ever Max, but at least for as long as the Thais are prepared to accept it. In Thailand, the 1% of people who choose not to play by the rules are the same 1% who insist that the 99% should do... That gives the 1% a natural advantage, which the carefully created Thai culture of compliance and not rocking the boat exacerbates.

 

Winnie

Edited August 8, 2016 by Winniedapu

[carstenp]

4 minutes ago, Winniedapu said:

 

 

Maybe not for ever Max, but at least for as long as the Thais are prepared to accept it. In Thailand, the 1% of people who choose not to play by the rules are the same 1% who insist that the 99% should do... That gives the 1% a natural advantage, which the carefully created Thai culture of compliance and not rocking the boat exacerbates.

 

Winnie

I agree not forever, but suddenly a more difficult time. Interesting article in the UK newspaper Independent http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/thailand-votes-by-public-referendum-to-make-its-government-even-less-accountable-to-the-people-a7177526.html

 

I think it says it all

 

[metisdead]

A post containing a link to Bangkok Post has been removed as well as a reply:

 

26) The Bangkok Post and Phuketwan do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Phuketwan publications will be deleted from the forum.

[Plutojames88]

Consider those that want democracy and mistaken  thought this was a means to get a chance at election.
Consider the people who are scared of them.
The ones that were old .
The elites .
The people who no know better.

The rigged results .

The actual result may be different.

I am done with them.
I have cut her parents .
Both accepted awards from the junta for exceptional citizens .

Dare to cut Thais .
Leave them to learn.

We are no longer worthy of the elevated blood pressure and crap.

Let the stats show we made a choice.
Err on the good.
For once.

 

even the soldiers  must hate themselves sometimes ......

[mike324]

25 minutes ago, xineohp said:

In the predominantly agricultural north and northeast, most folk have been busy in their fields for the last few months and have had little time to either see, read or absorb news about the referendum.  Call it apathy or disinterest but these very same folk are more interested in putting food on the table for their families than being interested in the antics going on in Bangkok.  Regrettably, the administration, army and elite are all too aware of this and continually use it to their advantage.  Interesting to note the French Revolution came about in just similar circumstances.  

 

busy in the fields...that statement can be applied anytime buddy even during democratic elections.... the fact is that most citizens don't care to read up about it, they just vote based on what their family, friends, neighbors, phuyaiban tells them.... especially if there are no incentives for them, most would care less

 

And like previous posters have said, this is the same thing as many folks in Britain not knowing the exact details of the Brexit leave!

Edited August 8, 2016 by mike324
typo

[Winniedapu]

5 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

You would have to be blind not to see it at rallies.That's your experience,mine differs.Maybe they don't trust you.Even got two hundred for myself a long time ago,by mistake.

 

 

OK. So much bias evident in this string of comments, it's difficult to counter rationally, and any effort expended in trying to persuade to a contrary, perhaps less biased view would not be a good use of time.

 

So... whatever.

 

Winnie

[Winniedapu]

6 minutes ago, carstenp said:

I agree not forever, but suddenly a more difficult time. Interesting article in the UK newspaper Independent http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/thailand-votes-by-public-referendum-to-make-its-government-even-less-accountable-to-the-people-a7177526.html

 

I think it says it all

 

 

 

Yes, some interesting and reasonable points made. 

 

" but suddenly a more difficult time"

 

Seems very likely to me too. I suspect that the hobbling of governments in what will turn out to be perpetuity will make the prospect of armed violence or civil war more likely. I really do thing that this is a ham-fisted attempt to ensure the continued hegemony of the Thai ruling classes.

 

Ham-fisted, but then I look at Prayuth and Prawit and the rest of them and try to see what they've done which hasn't been ham-fisted. And I'm a bit stumped for answers.

 

I'm not usually one for quoting contemporary music, but Roger Waters had a line which seems particularly apposite; he noted "give any one species too much rope and they'll f*k it up". Substitute the word government for the word 'species' and you'll see why it rang a bell. These guys have a rare talent for it, but then one has to ask where they came from...

 

Winnie

[mike324]

9 minutes ago, Winniedapu said:

 

 

OK. So much bias evident in this string of comments, it's difficult to counter rationally, and any effort expended in trying to persuade to a contrary, perhaps less biased view would not be a good use of time.

 

So... whatever.

 

Winnie

 

its a known fact that money is handed out during elections - although its becoming less common....no need to even ask for evidence, everyone in Thailand knows this - go ask your Thai friends

Edited August 8, 2016 by mike324

[greenchair]

2 hours ago, Old Salt said:

 

Agreed, but hang on folks... Surely the fact that there has been minimal blood shed (so common with election politics here) during this latest 'reign' has some value.  Not to mention the battle with corruption which none of we visitors can really evaluate except for what we see (Phuket cleaned up in many areas).

 

Thailand will not be ready for democracy until the corrupt polititions diminish (Possible?) and all Thais understand that placing a government in power for a term means just that... Give them a chance.  Western style democracy, which has it's own set of problems, is not yet the answer here.

 

Re this government, I genuinely believe (should one use the word genuinely here in Thailand when speaking of politics) that they are trying to do the right thing and from all accounts, including many comments here, through this referendum they have spoken.  Accept it.... It's a done deal.  No one in our area paid the winners to vote, no one threatened school kids with only teaching a certain coloured shirt supporter.  Many other countries had far worse conditions and living standards and have moved ahead through seemingly rigid controls... 

They may well have thailand best interests at heart. Prayuth and his side kicks might just be the uncorruptable swimming against the corrupt. But they are not going to be here forever. The people that come after them might be darker than dark. They are going to have full control of a superboard that controls 12 of thailands biggest assets. A superboard that does not allow any involvement by the government. Those same people or at least 6 of them will be in charge of the hand picked senate, which in turn chooses who will run the country and which regulations they will bow down to. In the hands of the uncorruptable, might be great and certainly will solve a lot of problems. But if the temptation is too much, by god that's a lot of power in a few hands with no one to answer to.

[Winniedapu]

4 minutes ago, greenchair said:

They may well have thailand best interests at heart. Prayuth and his side kicks might just be the uncorruptable swimming against the corrupt. But they are not going to be here forever. The people that come after them might be darker than dark. They are going to have full control of a superboard that controls 12 of thailands biggest assets. A superboard that does not allow any involvement by the government. Those same people or at least 6 of them will be in charge of the hand picked senate, which in turn chooses who will run the country and which regulations they will bow down to. In the hands of the uncorruptable, might be great and certainly will solve a lot of problems. But if the temptation is too much, by god that's a lot of power in a few hands with no one to answer to.

 

No doubt you're right. Prayuth and Co clearly have this image of themselves and what they're doing, and they assume that their ideas are right for Thailand and that what's good for them is good for all Thailand.

 

In many other contexts, this would be called delusion if it were a sincere belief, and corrupt if not sincere but according to a hidden agenda. Which I for one believe to be the case.

 

Winnie

[elgordo38]

3 hours ago, maoro2013 said:

It is called a 'draft' charter, which I think means it is not final, and people were asked to vote for something that may be changed!!

I think the "draft" has built in protections against changes.

[Deepinthailand]

61% is a good majority. Splitting it into various regions is pointless much the same as the UK referendum yes is yes no is no. We as farang living here have no say no voice no input apart from thewhinging and whining on here witch in the end means jack poo. Now they have a majority let them get on with it. It will not change anything for us. But there will be the oh yes it will brigade coming out. 

[halloween]

19 minutes ago, Winniedapu said:

 

No doubt you're right. Prayuth and Co clearly have this image of themselves and what they're doing, and they assume that their ideas are right for Thailand and that what's good for them is good for all Thailand.

 

In many other contexts, this would be called delusion if it were a sincere belief, and corrupt if not sincere but according to a hidden agenda. Which I for one believe to be the case.

 

Winnie

Your delusion seems to be that you have Thai friends - those people who you feel so inferior, and that don't share their confidences. I wonder why?

Meanwhile the Thai people, those poor deluded fools, accept that Prayuth and co. are acting in the best interests of the country, and doing a fair to middling job of it, and want them to continue. Only to be expected, right?

[Winniedapu]

"Surely the fact that there has been minimal blood shed (so common with election politics here) during this latest 'reign' has some value."

 

Not sure I agree. The history of democracy is that it must be taken by force, not by 'going with the flow,' which is a particular strength of Thais, for whatever reason.

 

In my opinion, the faxt that no blood has been spilt this time (though plenty spilt on previous occasions) makes the development of democracy in Thailand less likely and not more likely.

 

Not that I'm advocating violence, but I suspect the cleansing fire of a seriously destructive civil war will be needed to wash away the accumulation of the amaat detritus in Thailand.

 

Winnie

[Peterw42]

27 minutes ago, mike324 said:

 

its a known fact that money is handed out during elections - although its becoming less common....no need to even ask for evidence, everyone in Thailand knows this - go ask your Thai friends

 

Yes, Thai wife tells me 200 baht per person. 6 people in my wifes old house, 1200 baht. A guy would come door to door. She tells me how guilty she felt because she took the money from one colored shirt and voted for the other.

[Winniedapu]

8 minutes ago, Deepinthailand said:

61% is a good majority. Splitting it into various regions is pointless much the same as the UK referendum yes is yes no is no. We as farang living here have no say no voice no input apart from thewhinging and whining on here witch in the end means jack poo. Now they have a majority let them get on with it. It will not change anything for us. But there will be the oh yes it will brigade coming out. 

 

 

Not to quibble, but where did 81% come from? I haven't seen that anywhere...

 

Winnie

[mtls2005]

Prayut had some interesting comments...

 

Thailand’s political transition intervened by foreign allies: Junta leader

 

The junta premier then addressed, “(this process has come about based on our own initiative, requiring great toil over many years to reach this pinnacle,  where we could decide by ourselves, the future of Thailand in a noble manner. It's disappointing, however, that there have been some inappropriate intervention by foreign elements during these delicate times of our political transition.”

 

He added “All these interferences have inevitably led us to have contempt for the sentiments of those who claim to be "friends " of Thailand. This malicious intent has been resonated loud and clear in the  hearts and minds of the people who have spoken with resolve at the Referendum today”

 

http://prachatai.org/english/node/6454

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/07/opinion/heng-on-thailands-military-referendum.html

 

 

Edited August 8, 2016 by mtls2005

[Deepinthailand]

1 minute ago, Winniedapu said:

 

 

Not to quibble, but where did 81% come from? I haven't seen that anywhere...

 

Winnie

 Think you need new glasses where do you see 81%;I see 61%

 

61% is a good majority. Splitting it into various regions is pointless much the same as the UK referendum yes is yes no is no. We as farang living here have no say no voice no input apart from thewhinging and whining on here witch in the end means jack poo. Now they have a majority let them get on with it. It will not change anything for us. But there will be the oh yes it will brigade coming out. 

[metisdead]

Please use discretion in your references to the government. Phrases which can be considered as anti-coup will be removed. Referring to Thailand or the government as a dictatorship, military dictatorship or other such terms will be removed.

[Winniedapu]

2 hours ago, dcnx said:

 

Only to have them vote for Prayut.

 

 

I strongly agree that is in the tea-leaves. That, after all, was the whole point of putting the provision in. Colour me a cynic but I have 100 baht to bet on exactly that happening.

 

Winnie

[aripengu]

The turnout and rates of approval in percentage related to registered voters are very similar to the outcome in the 2007 constitution referendum. Let's start season 2 of not having solved anything?...we will see.

Edited August 8, 2016 by aripengu

[Srikcir]

Landslide victory?                                                                                                                                                                                                           Unofficial returns had the Yes vote at 62 percent with 9 million people voting in favor of the charter, and 5.5 million against.

Total voter turnout is then14.5 million.

The Interior Ministry in April 2016 suggested that there 50 million eligible voters. So about 29% voter turnout.

Results of the 2007 constitution referendum was 57% went to the polls with 56% Yes vote or about 32% voter turnout.                                   The 2016 Constitution referendum Yes vote is once again a minority supported vote. Hardly a public mandate and likely to suffer the political conflict generated by the 2007 Constitution.

 

[phycokiller]

its not really an issue because it only has to last till the next coup, which may be sooner then people think

[Winniedapu]

14 minutes ago, Deepinthailand said:

 Think you need new glasses where do you see 81%;I see 61%

 

61% is a good majority. Splitting it into various regions is pointless much the same as the UK referendum yes is yes no is no. We as farang living here have no say no voice no input apart from thewhinging and whining on here witch in the end means jack poo. Now they have a majority let them get on with it. It will not change anything for us. But there will be the oh yes it will brigade coming out. 

 

Indeed I do. I also see 61% now and would like to know who changed it. 

 

Oops. Apologies.

 

However, the reality is that it's only 0,61 x 0.55 of the eligible voters (which I strongly suspect equates only to the voters who could be assed to vote).

 

The end result of the multi-billion-baht exercise is that fewer people voted than in the last referendum after the last military government, and an acceptance of 33% of eligible voters isn't so very impressive, though I accept that's the way voting works. I just think they shouldn't get carried away on a cloud of their own conceit about what it all actually was and what it all actually means.

 

Not at all.

 

Winnie

Edited August 8, 2016 by Winniedapu

[louse1953]

45 minutes ago, Winniedapu said:

 

No doubt you're right. Prayuth and Co clearly have this image of themselves and what they're doing, and they assume that their ideas are right for Thailand and that what's good for them is good for all Thailand.

 

In many other contexts, this would be called delusion if it were a sincere belief, and corrupt if not sincere but according to a hidden agenda. Which I for one believe to be the case.

 

Winnie

It also could be called common sense.

[mesterm]

1 hour ago, louse1953 said:

Not me,i have been pro coup right from the start and said this would be a 5 year process to clean up the last 80 odd years.What was happening in Bangkok and other places had to stop,one way or the other.The two sides were incapable of acting like adults so they got the other.

 

Yeah so they got the other group of overgrown children in uniforms.

[louse1953]

22 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

 

Yes, Thai wife tells me 200 baht per person. 6 people in my wifes old house, 1200 baht. A guy would come door to door. She tells me how guilty she felt because she took the money from one colored shirt and voted for the other.

Mine took from both sides.I asked about the guilt trip and she said"up to them,they want to give".Lost for words as usual with Thai logic.

[halloween]

5 minutes ago, Winniedapu said:

 

Indeed I do. I also see 61% now and would like to know who changed it. 

 

Oops. Apologies.

 

However, the reality is that it's only 0,61 x 0.55 of the eligible voters (which I strongly suspect equates to the voters who could ba assed to vote).

 

The end result of the multi-billion-baht exercise is that fewer people voted than in the last referendum after the last military government, and an acceptance of 33% isn't so very impressive.

 

Not at all.

 

Winnie

But more than a US president gets.  61% of those who bothered to register and vote is a large majority, no matter how much you try to belittle it.

[louse1953]

26 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

 

Yes, Thai wife tells me 200 baht per person. 6 people in my wifes old house, 1200 baht. A guy would come door to door. She tells me how guilty she felt because she took the money from one colored shirt and voted for the other.

Mine took from both sides.I asked about the guilt trip and she said"up to them,they want to give".Lost for words as usual with Thai logic.