Pattaya going downhill!

[bodymassagemyfriend]

On 31/08/2016 at 4:58 AM, Scotwight said:

In your six years of pointing out the decline of Pattaya which year has the largest decline?  

He already answered your question , if you read carefully...

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Perhaps I should elaborate a bit.  In my opinion, the "downhill" started around 2003-2004.  Having said that, let me add that economic growth can result in a "downhill condition."  Economic growth that is inhumane, inequitable and environmentally unsound often leads to a decline in quality of life, and thus a downhill situation.  Unless quality of life is considered, economic growth is a rather meaningless metric.    Whether the quality of life, which has resulted from economic growth, is taking the majority of us down or up is very subjective.  To some, this is Paradise; to others, it is Hell.  And most are somewhere in between these two extremes.  If you believe--like cancer cells-- that all growth is good, then you no doubt missed my point.

[thaibeachlovers]

IMO, for what it's worth, Pattaya ( in the zone, not in Pattaya as a whole, in which I have zero interest- never been to the darkside and probably never will ) started going down hill when Purachai started his attack on the farang bar scene. Before that there was enough money for all that were there. After Purachai's destruction of the scene, the stories of street crime started and haven't gone away.

 

The disastrous policy of trying to make Pattaya attractive to the world's rich people has only exacerbated the decline, but it didn't start it.

 

Doesn't help that there was never an actual "plan", and that nothing was done to fix the infrastructure, never mind building really, really bad projects like the marina and the Bali Hi car park that failed before they opened. As for the attrocious beach promenade...............................

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO, for what it's worth, Pattaya ( in the zone, not in Pattaya as a whole, in which I have zero interest- never been to the darkside and probably never will ) started going down hill when Purachai started his attack on the farang bar scene. Before that there was enough money for all that were there. After Purachai's destruction of the scene, the stories of street crime started and haven't gone away.

 

The disastrous policy of trying to make Pattaya attractive to the world's rich people has only exacerbated the decline, but it didn't start it.

 

Doesn't help that there was never an actual "plan", and that nothing was done to fix the infrastructure, never mind building really, really bad projects like the marina and the Bali Hi car park that failed before they opened. As for the attrocious beach promenade...............................

 

It is nice to know that there is someone else who remembers our old friend Purachai whose antics kicked it all off. As for an actual plan, I think all credit must be due to the Town Hall for its 'Beach Nourishment Programme.' Pattaya at its best.

[NanLaew]

20 hours ago, Awohalitsiktoli said:

Perhaps I should elaborate a bit.  In my opinion, the "downhill" started around 2003-2004.  ...

 

...or around the time they stopped using 'sleepy little fishing village' and 'discovered by American servicemen on R&R from Vietnam' epithets then?

 

Funnily enough, it coincides with when I came back to Pattaya after a 12-year hiatus. After a few months, it dawned on me that the bars were mostly full of older single guys who were benefiting from the wide choice of ED medications. I reckon Pfizer and the rest are the real cause of Pattaya's fall from grace.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

 

...or around the time they stopped using 'sleepy little fishing village' and 'discovered by American servicemen on R&R from Vietnam' epithets then?

 

Funnily enough, it coincides with when I came back to Pattaya after a 12-year hiatus. After a few months, it dawned on me that the bars were mostly full of older single guys who were benefiting from the wide choice of ED medications. I reckon Pfizer and the rest are the real cause of Pattaya's fall from grace.

I totally disagree with what you just said.  Are we even talking about the same place?  I am talking about Pattaya-Jomtien.  It was not a sleeping fishing village in 2003-2004.  It was a great time to be in Pattaya-Jomtien.  There was just enough development to make the quality of life high. 

[Stray]

On ‎01‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 9:20 AM, Seizetheday said:

I'm not interested in your view of me. However, by your own admission you haven't been to Pattaya, so why bother commenting on it. 

I'm sure there are topics that you do have knowledge that could help some people.

 

As a regular FIFO tourist to Pattaya, in your opinion, do you believe it is going downhill?

 

If you believe it is going downhill, in what way and why would you keep returning?

 

If you don't believe it is going downhill, what initially attracted you to the place and will it become your 'retirement home?'

 

Yes, by my own admission, I have never been to Pattaya but, as the topic has been raised by the OP, I am trying to get a better handle on the intrigue and allure of Pattaya and some insight as to why some paint the place in such a negative light (although, the imagery and explanation has been given by another poster as to why this is so).  I do not believe a visit would suffice (a brief holiday to any place can give a 'one time' tourist the wrong impression), hence my queries on a PUBLIC forum.

Edited September 4, 2016 by Stray

[OMGImInPattaya]

Sorry to rain on the "downhill" brigade but I had a chance to pop into the new Chocolate Factory restaurant cum chocolatier in the Pratumnak area tonite and the place was buzzing. For those who don't know, it's an upscale waterside farang/Thai bistro, with an onsite Belgium chocolate factory.  There are large indoor and outdoor terrace seating areas; and an in-house retail chocolate shop (individual bite sized truffles ranging from 30-40 baht a piece). 

 

I'd say the crowd was 50% Thais...20% Asian tourists...and maybe 30% farangs (tourists/locals). So there's still plenty of money around and Pattaya is still attracting crowds...maybe just not so many of the soi Bua Khow/LK Metro types.

[newnative]

Yes,The Chocolate Factory and the outdoor restaurants next door to it are wonderful and they are attracting a nice mix of patrons, as OMG mentioned. My partner and I dined out there a couple Fridays ago with some friends and it was a very enjoyable evening dining on good food and watching the beautiful sunset over the ocean.  The outdoor restaurants were very busy but everyone was relaxed and mellow.   At one point we all just sort of looked around and said isn't this nice that Pattaya is getting places like this.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

10 hours ago, newnative said:

Yes,The Chocolate Factory and the outdoor restaurants next door to it are wonderful and they are attracting a nice mix of patrons, as OMG mentioned. My partner and I dined out there a couple Fridays ago with some friends and it was a very enjoyable evening dining on good food and watching the beautiful sunset over the ocean.  The outdoor restaurants were very busy but everyone was relaxed and mellow.   At one point we all just sort of looked around and said isn't this nice that Pattaya is getting places like this.

 

 

Used to enjoy sitting at the edge of the cliff in the evening, watching the sun go down. Lot of local couples would do so. Sometimes even setting up a picnic.

Now of course the whole area is blocked. Instead of romantic couples sitting on the edge or on the ground looking out to sea to their hearts content, the whole area is blocked to those who can no longer afford it....or who perhaps simply don't look the part.

 

It was wonderful before. The only difference is that someone has monetised it. Attracting a nice mix of patrons....bleurgh!. There were nice people there before. But now they have to pay to sit there.....and keep on paying if they want to stay longer....and have to order food that they may not particularly want to eat. (I could knock up better myself)....in order to sit in the spot on which I and others used to sit to our hearts content.

 

So for others who didn't know about this place beforehand, it's a wonderful new addition. To me, it's just another bit of soul being taken away.

 

Just goes to show that there is always another point of view.

 

[SheungWan]

8 hours ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

Sorry to rain on the "downhill" brigade but I had a chance to pop into the new Chocolate Factory restaurant cum chocolatier in the Pratumnak area tonite and the place was buzzing. For those who don't know, it's an upscale waterside farang/Thai bistro, with an onsite Belgium chocolate factory.  There are large indoor and outdoor terrace seating areas; and an in-house retail chocolate shop (individual bite sized truffles ranging from 30-40 baht a piece). 

 

I'd say the crowd was 50% Thais...20% Asian tourists...and maybe 30% farangs (tourists/locals). So there's still plenty of money around and Pattaya is still attracting crowds...maybe just not so many of the soi Bua Khow/LK Metro types.

 

Well there is a 'real' chocolate shop on the right-hand side leading from Soi Bhuakaow to the Avenue, so no need to traipse all the way up Pratumnak Hill.

[OMGImInPattaya]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

 

Well there is a 'real' chocolate shop on the right-hand side leading from Soi Bhuakaow to the Avenue, so no need to traipse all the way up Pratumnak Hill.

I never said there wasn't...the point being there are many places and businesses in Pattaya that are going "up hill. " The location and ambience at the seaside location of the Chocolate Factory would be preferred by many, except the dedicated 30 baht khow soy and Leo beer crowd.

 

It may be hard for some to imagine but there is a world away from soi Bua Khow and a 10 minute "traipse" is hardly likely to do one in. However,  there is something for everyone and that seems to be Pattaya's strength, even if some like to see the changes as going down hill.

Edited September 5, 2016 by OMGImInPattaya

[Jiu-Jitsu]

44 minutes ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

I never said there wasn't...the point being there are many places and businesses in Pattaya that are going "up hill. " The location and ambience at the seaside location of the Chocolate Factory would be preferred by many, except the dedicated 30 baht khow soy and Leo beer crowd.

 

It may be hard for some to imagine but there is a world away from soi Bua Khow and a 10 minute "traipse" is hardly likely to do one in. However,  there is something for everyone and that seems to be Pattaya's strength, even if some like to see the changes as going down hill.

 

Don't you get tired of posting this nonsense?

This attempting to polarise opinion.. 

I've no shortage of funds, but I don't see every new structure as a positive thing.

Some might see McDonald's coming to town as something progressive, whilst others may see it as a sign of a place losing it's unique character.

So how about you accept that people have another point of view, rather than trying to suggest that you are somewhat better than them? It's wearing a bit thin.

Soi Bua Khao is not for me either. But I'm free to not visit the place if it offends me.

What I don't like is when they monetise a pleasant public space and people like yourself attempt to label it as an improvement and somewhat above the hoi polloi.

The location and ambience were there before. 

I doubt if you've seen the inside of a public school and would deign to suggest that you are no better than anyone else here.

Unless you think that having more money makes you a better person.

[newnative]

Lighten up already.  OMG was simply pointing out a nice, new attraction in town. And, it is a wonderful new addition.  Someone owns the land and they are now leasing it so when you were enjoying the open space before you were not on 'public space'. 

[Jiu-Jitsu]

4 minutes ago, newnative said:

Lighten up already.  OMG was simply pointing out a nice, new attraction in town. And, it is a wonderful new addition.  Someone owns the land and they are now leasing it so when you were enjoying the open space before you were not on 'public space'. 

 

 

Oh please....you are being disingenuous..... as is your wont. He wasn't just pointing out a "nice, new attraction" with the words "The location and ambience at the seaside location of the Chocolate Factory would be preferred by many, except the dedicated 30 baht khow soy and Leo beer crowd."

 

It was an idiotic statement, pure and simple...as is your attempt to defend it.

[Peterw42]

Dont Dare mention that there is in fact a world outside of the Bar strip. This is a negative Pattaya thread, Any positive comments will not be allowed. 

 

[newnative]

I don't see anything idiotic about what OMG said.  The crowd at the Chocolate factory was different than the crowd you would see at the bars--more Thais, families, couples, and so on. Just celebrate that Pattaya has bars for those who prefer to hang out there and places like the Chocolate Factory for the non-bar types.  Don't be so negative. Try to sometimes see the glass as half full.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

1 minute ago, Peterw42 said:

Dont Dare mention that there is in fact a world outside of the Bar strip. This is a negative Pattaya thread, Any positive comments will not be allowed. 

 

 

Another silly comment. Over the past fifteen years, I've possibly stepped into three bars....reluctantly.

It's the attempt to polarise that irks me. 

If I began to denigrate those who fraternised with ladyboys in Pattaya, it being somewhat beneath me, I would fully expect that there would be some that agree and some that would disagree.

The world isn't separated into people who love ladyboys and are lowly and those who do not, who are superior. Similarly Pattaya is not separated into people who fraternise with ladyboys and visit the Chocolate Factory and people who like girls and visit the bar strips.

 

People will have a different point of view. I don't like it when some try to paint themselves as somewhat superior...when they clearly are not.

 

 

 

 

 

[newnative]

I don't see anybody painting themselves as superior here. But I do see you painting everybody, with a big wide brush, as an idiot if they say something you don't agree with--which seems to be pretty much everything. 

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, newnative said:

I don't see anybody painting themselves as superior here. But I do see you painting everybody, with a big wide brush, as an idiot if they say something you don't agree with--which seems to be pretty much everything. 

 

+1

[OMGImInPattaya]

2 hours ago, Jiu-Jitsu said:

 

Don't you get tired of posting this nonsense?

This attempting to polarise opinion.. 

I've no shortage of funds, but I don't see every new structure as a positive thing.

Some might see McDonald's coming to town as something progressive, whilst others may see it as a sign of a place losing it's unique character.

So how about you accept that people have another point of view, rather than trying to suggest that you are somewhat better than them? It's wearing a bit thin.

Soi Bua Khao is not for me either. But I'm free to not visit the place if it offends me.

What I don't like is when they monetise a pleasant public space and people like yourself attempt to label it as an improvement and somewhat above the hoi polloi.

The location and ambience were there before. 

I doubt if you've seen the inside of a public school and would deign to suggest that you are no better than anyone else here.

Unless you think that having more money makes you a better person.

If you actually read other's post without your anti-development agenda formost in your mind maybe you might see clearly. In the very post you quote, I said there was something for everyone in Pattaya and that's what makes it prosper. I think most here know I've posted about both higher-end and value options in food and entertainment in Thailand...it's all good.

 

If it makes you feel better, I didn't even eat at CF, but at a little hole-in-the-wall Italian joint behind Tuk Com, hardly hi-so (which I'll be giving a shout-out in another post), and was only taking a visiting friend to see the place as I'd seen pictures and it looked nice and I've been to the Kao Yai  branch before and wanted to compare them. The point is I don't reflexively  condemn all change and new development as ipso facto a bad thing, as seems to be so prevelent with many around here.  

Edited September 5, 2016 by OMGImInPattaya

[JSixpack]

 

 

 

 

 

Addicted2Pattaya, on 2008-10-13 00:39:08:

If pattaya did die. where would be the next best place ?

 

Sommaz, on 2008-10-13 10:47:57:
Heaven of course.

Edited September 5, 2016 by JSixpack

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

I never said there wasn't...the point being there are many places and businesses in Pattaya that are going "up hill. " The location and ambience at the seaside location of the Chocolate Factory would be preferred by many, except the dedicated 30 baht khow soy and Leo beer crowd.

 

It may be hard for some to imagine but there is a world away from soi Bua Khow and a 10 minute "traipse" is hardly likely to do one in. However,  there is something for everyone and that seems to be Pattaya's strength, even if some like to see the changes as going down hill.

No number of "chocolate shops" is going to detract from the attrocious beach walkway, the marina, the Bali Hi carpark and the horrid thing in front of the view point, never mind the horrendeous traffic and the broken infrastructure.

My point is, and always has been, that if people want fancy expensive places to eat chocolate they can always go to places that welcome such, like Hua Hin or any of the ruined beaches like Chaweng.

I don't get why people want to stay in Pattaya when they so obviously don't like the main feature of the place. It's not like they are forced to go there.

Edited September 5, 2016 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

If you actually read other's post without your anti-development agenda formost in your mind maybe you might see clearly. In the very post you quote, I said there was something for everyone in Pattaya and that's what makes it prosper. I think most here know I've posted about both higher-end and value options in food and entertainment in Thailand...it's all good.

 

If it makes you feel better, I didn't even eat at CF, but at a little hole-in-the-wall Italian joint behind Tuk Com, hardly hi-so (which I'll be giving a shout-out in another post), and was only taking a visiting friend to see the place as I'd seen pictures and it looked nice and I've been to the Kao Yai  branch before and wanted to compare them. The point is I don't reflexively  condemn all change and new development as ipso facto a bad thing, as seems to be so prevelent with many around here.  

I doubt that anyone would condemn all change as bad eg a decent soundshell and open area for the many music festivals that Pattaya hosts would be a good thing. Unfortunately, in a place without any public parks accessible without having to climb the hill, the only emphasis in Pattaya is on commercial businesses. Anything that merely improves public life is either not done or destroyed eg the park by Bali Hi was destroyed to build the stupid car park building and the once pleasant walkway to the lighthouse has been ruined by the speedboats.

That is indeed a city on the downhill slide. When the only way to enjoy life outside one's room is to pay, it is a sad situation indeed.

 

The one thing that was enjoyed by many, the beach walkway, was destroyed in a foolish attempt to upmarket Pattaya.

Pattaya will never be "upmarket", but the present situation is the worst of all worlds- neither cheap and cheerful as it used to be, nor efficient and elegant as some want.

 

No matter how many chocolate shops and posh malls are built, Pattaya is a dump with a rubbish beach and broken infrastructure, and I say that as someone that loves Pattaya despite it's many problems, but I don't pretend it's more than it is, as some do.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

30 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

 

 

 

 

 

Addicted2Pattaya, on 2008-10-13 00:39:08:

If pattaya did die. where would be the next best place ?

 

Sommaz, on 2008-10-13 10:47:57:
Heaven of course.

What happened to that post?

 

To answer JSS, there is no next best place. Pattaya is unique in the world.

Some might say Angeles, but I believe it is more dangerous than Pattaya. Correct me if that is wrong.

[SheungWan]

29 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No number of "chocolate shops" is going to detract from the attrocious beach walkway, the marina, the Bali Hi carpark and the horrid thing in front of the view point, never mind the horrendeous traffic and the broken infrastructure.

My point is, and always has been, that if people want fancy expensive places to eat chocolate they can always go to places that welcome such, like Hua Hin or any of the ruined beaches like Chaweng.

I don't get why people want to stay in Pattaya when they so obviously don't like the main feature of the place. It's not like they are forced to go there.

 

The answer to your question is not so much whether Pattaya is good/bad but rather one of choices. One of the favourite topics of those who stay in Pattaya is where else to go. The discussion is interminable but few have found somewhere else. One or two thought that they had found nirvana in Vietnam but that fell through and they are still here, then there is the Nong Khai and all stations north crowd eking out a boring existence and trying to persuade us that it is better and then there is the Philippines and Cambodia. That's about it apart from the BKK guys who yes they have a more interesting choice of things to do but, but there is no beach, crummy or otherwise. Oh, I forgot there are the guys who have gone back home to their cold home countries and spend their time online having a go at Pattaya..........................................

[OMGImInPattaya]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No number of "chocolate shops" is going to detract from the attrocious beach walkway, the marina, the Bali Hi carpark and the horrid thing in front of the view point, never mind the horrendeous traffic and the broken infrastructure.

My point is, and always has been, that if people want fancy expensive places to eat chocolate they can always go to places that welcome such, like Hua Hin or any of the ruined beaches like Chaweng.

I don't get why people want to stay in Pattaya when they so obviously don't like the main feature of the place. It's not like they are forced to go there.

You might not welcome fine chocolates, food, and shopping but others do...what's wrong with having it all? Isn't that why people visit and retire to Pattaya...to have it all  

[OMGImInPattaya]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I doubt that anyone would condemn all change as bad eg a decent soundshell and open area for the many music festivals that Pattaya hosts would be a good thing. Unfortunately, in a place without any public parks accessible without having to climb the hill, the only emphasis in Pattaya is on commercial businesses. Anything that merely improves public life is either not done or destroyed eg the park by Bali Hi was destroyed to build the stupid car park building and the once pleasant walkway to the lighthouse has been ruined by the speedboats.

That is indeed a city on the downhill slide. When the only way to enjoy life outside one's room is to pay, it is a sad situation indeed.

 

The one thing that was enjoyed by many, the beach walkway, was destroyed in a foolish attempt to upmarket Pattaya.

Pattaya will never be "upmarket", but the present situation is the worst of all worlds- neither cheap and cheerful as it used to be, nor efficient and elegant as some want.

 

No matter how many chocolate shops and posh malls are built, Pattaya is a dump with a rubbish beach and broken infrastructure, and I say that as someone that loves Pattaya despite it's many problems, but I don't pretend it's more than it is, as some do.

 

I don't think anyone argues that it's South Beach but I do think having low, medium, and high-end whatever makes for a more enjoyable place to visit/live for the most people. The lack of public open space and the cooptation of whatever there is by private interests is a shame but also fairly common in most less developed countries. 

[Jiu-Jitsu]

8 hours ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

If you actually read other's post without your anti-development agenda formost in your mind maybe you might see clearly. In the very post you quote, I said there was something for everyone in Pattaya and that's what makes it prosper. I think most here know I've posted about both higher-end and value options in food and entertainment in Thailand...it's all good.

 

If it makes you feel better, I didn't even eat at CF, but at a little hole-in-the-wall Italian joint behind Tuk Com, hardly hi-so (which I'll be giving a shout-out in another post), and was only taking a visiting friend to see the place as I'd seen pictures and it looked nice and I've been to the Kao Yai  branch before and wanted to compare them. The point is I don't reflexively  condemn all change and new development as ipso facto a bad thing, as seems to be so prevelent with many around here.  

 

 

^^

 

This is the perfect example of back pedalling.

 

"The location and ambience at the seaside location of the Chocolate Factory would be preferred by many, except the dedicated 30 baht khow soy and Leo beer crowd."

 

"It may be hard for some to imagine but there is a world away from soi Bua Khow and a 10 minute "traipse" is hardly likely to do one in."

 

 

I could trawl through your posts and pick out similar barbs throughout, but I have better things to do with my time. Even your rather pathetic suggestion that I have an anti development agenda...when it's more to do with ridiculous individuals thinking that they have discovered something wonderful, when the "wonderful location and ambience" was there before someone decided to monetise it.

Just like Bali Hai was far more pleasant before they 'developed' it....and a lot of the development has simply made things worse. you know this as well as I.

So how about you at least try to cut down on the disingenuous nonsense? It's not convincing anyone other than a couple of hangers on, who have had their fingers burned in earlier discussions and have no credibility at all.

 

Some may like spending their time around Bua khao area and others, perhaps like yourself, prefer the side streets around Tukcom....not really that far from each other, eh?  

But to suggest that people who like the Bua Khao area never go elsewhere,  is patently ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

[SheungWan]

5 minutes ago, Jiu-Jitsu said:

 

 

^^

 

This is the perfect example of back pedalling.

 

"The location and ambience at the seaside location of the Chocolate Factory would be preferred by many, except the dedicated 30 baht khow soy and Leo beer crowd."

 

"It may be hard for some to imagine but there is a world away from soi Bua Khow and a 10 minute "traipse" is hardly likely to do one in."

 

 

I could trawl through your posts and pick out similar barbs throughout, but I have better things to do with my time. Even your rather pathetic suggestion that I have an anti development agenda...when it's more to do with ridiculous individuals thinking that they have discovered something wonderful, when the "wonderful location and ambience" was there before someone decided to monetise it.

Just like Bali Hai was far more pleasant before they 'developed' it....and a lot of the development has simply made things worse. you know this as well as I.

So how about you at least try to cut down on the disingenuous nonsense? It's not convincing anyone other than a couple of hangers on, who have had their fingers burned in earlier discussions and have no credibility at all.

 

Some may like spending their time around Bua khao area and others, perhaps like yourself, prefer the side streets around Tukcom....not really that far from each other, eh?  

But to suggest that people who like the Bua Khao area never go elsewhere,  is patently ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

 

Some of the guys propping up the open-air bar on the corner of Soi Buakhaow and Soi Diana, I swear they don't move from one day to the next. Probably whiff a bit by now. No wonder nobody sits next to them. Probably scintillating conversationalists once upon a time.