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PM calls approved charter “People’s Constitution”


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46 minutes ago, Kiwiken said:

It most certainly is the People Constitution but certainly not the ordinary People. The next stage of the Countries development must be to rename the Country Sayam as they are getting back to basics

I dunno - Manor Farm has a nice ring to it...

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1 minute ago, djjamie said:

Ahhh the excuses to disrespect the majority. No wonder the support has dwindled for the UDD and PTP. The frustration  shows.

 

Love it. The majority have spoken and some hate it.

The option was the junta for the foreseeable future, or a crappy constitution with the hope of elections next year.  A pretty poor choice of options, and it is pretty shameful how you revel in such despair.  

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1 minute ago, djjamie said:

Ahhh the excuses to disrespect the majority. No wonder the support has dwindled for the UDD and PTP. The frustration  shows.

 

Love it. The majority have spoken and some hate it.

 

Lets not forget jamie that the majority (of which you are so fond of using to justify yourself) had their leader removed in a coup. 

 

The vote was for a Charter. It was not, and was never intended to be a reflection of the political colours of the country, how could it be political gatherings of over 5 people are banned? The majority of those who voted, voted to accept the Charter. That does not mean the military are popular to the disadvantage of PTP / UDD / The Democrats. It means the people agree with the provisions contained within the Charter for moving the country forward towards elections. 

 

For a person who likes to use facts, you do tend to over think and muddle facts with personal opinion. 

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8 minutes ago, djjamie said:

Ahhh the excuses to disrespect the majority. No wonder the support has dwindled for the UDD and PTP. The frustration  shows.

 

Love it. The majority have spoken and some hate it.

 

What disrespect of the majority do you see dear Jamie. Pointing out that the referendum was flawed is no disrepect, it is the truth. You must have heared it all, a referendum law, no debate or campaigning allowed, and fingerprints attached to the ballots, classic example of how not to conduct a referendum.

 

Disrupting general elections, preventing people from voting, staging an illegal coup, those are classic examples of disrepect for the majortiy.

 

it's hillarious that a Junta supporter would use the term respect for the majority. You don't know what respect actually means.

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8 minutes ago, djjamie said:

Ahhh the excuses to disrespect the majority. No wonder the support has dwindled for the UDD and PTP. The frustration  shows.

 

Love it. The majority have spoken and some hate it.

 

How do we know that?  Because the same government that put out a 98% approval rating poll said so?  If they had allowed independent monitoring, I would not argue this point, but as it is you don't have to be a conspiracy nut to distrust any number produced by this government.  if they fabricate poll results, why wouldn't they fabricate a referendum result?  

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Perhaps the 1997 People's Constitution received the nickname because the people chose to refer to it that way. That is typically how language works, or Thai people would all be referring to computers with whatever stupid word for them the ministry of culture artificially concocted to protect cultural identity instead of using the (borrowed) tup sap version.

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2 hours ago, debate101 said:

Perhaps the 1997 People's Constitution received the nickname because the people chose to refer to it that way. That is typically how language works, or Thai people would all be referring to computers with whatever stupid word for them the ministry of culture artificially concocted to protect cultural identity instead of using the (borrowed) tup sap version.

debate101,

 

Welcome to TV.

 

You raise an interesting point, one that ALL participants on this post should consider - why the People's Constitution?

Well, although I am not a fan of Wikipedia, I did find the following link quite pertinent to this debate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Constitution_of_Thailand)

 

Given that the drafters of the 1997 Constitution were elected by the people, it is blatantly clear why DELETED is so desperate to see the junta-inspired effort also identified as a "People's" Constitution!

Edited by seedy
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2 hours ago, waldroj said:

debate101,

 

Welcome to TV.

 

You raise an interesting point, one that ALL participants on this post should consider - why the People's Constitution?

Well, although I am not a fan of Wikipedia, I did find the following link quite pertinent to this debate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Constitution_of_Thailand)

 

Given that the drafters of the 1997 Constitution were elected by the people, it is blatantly clear why  is so desperate to see the junta-inspired effort also identified as a "People's" Constitution!

 

This is ultimately the real conceit and underlying cause of conflict and distortion for the past decade, but hardly anyone states it openly, just hints at it and skirts the edges. 

 

Regardless of one's politics or personal opinion, in an open referendum with a choice of charters, the 1997 version would prevail and in an open election with all Thais eligible to run, you can also probably guess the result. It has been this way for ten years.

 

This is why we require more and more repression to maintain the facade of progress, problems being solved, and equilibrium. Let me state this again, because it is important. The country's distance from its natural political equilibrium is directly proportional to the amount of constant repression and intervention necessary to keep it together.

 

I will leave it up to the reader to decide if the fate all of this has saved us from is, in retrospect, worse than the situation we find ourselves in now.

 

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Sorry for the triple post. Posting and editing don't seem to be working well at the moment.

 

I will add, as an addendum since this forum is directed at foreigners, that back in 2004 or so, the national immigration office wad considering offering 5 year resident visas to people with 3 consecutive one year visas on good behavior. I read it back on the first page of this very forum. Now, we are expected to fill out absurdly intrusive forms, possibly be tracked by sim card, basic retirement and marriage visa requirements are being tightened, and meddling foreigners are "causing the nation to disintegrate" according to our fearless leader.

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Once again,  it is not a "People's constitution". It is a military constitution, written by the army for the army.

 

The "people" are simply pawns in an elitist power game of control and slowly but surely both Thais and foreigners will be subjected to more repressive forms of control. As the economic situation worsens the mutterings will increase leading to even harsher laws and  greater controls.  As the "man" said, he makes the rules, its his constitution, now its his country for as long as he wants it to be.

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, elgordo38 said:

I think the inevitable has started. Guerrilla style attacks hit and run. 

 

6 hours ago, Winniedapu said:

 

I certainly do hope so...

 

Winnie

 

Unfortunately, via the referendum the junta has taken control of the Senate thru appointments for a period of 5 years to counter the Parliament House from attempting to take any more illicit moves as happened in the past many times (amnesty etc etc). This is NOT preferential. This is NOT desirable. However, after the shenanigans and violence of the past 10 years and with all coming to a head with succession looming and Thaksin seeking to 'make hay' simultaneously, again the Junta is unfortunately highly needed.
 

As for stating that one 'certainly hopes' 'the inevitable has started,  Guerrilla style attacks hit and run (hoping for more attacks, really???), well, sadly it appears you get your wish and with YL about to be docked billions for the rice scam, one fears this post-referendum attack was likely just a warm up to what's coming... Be careful what you wish for all you Thaksin-style 'demockracy' fan-boys.... Would rather reluctantly err on the side of the Military as unlike the mostly red-police, the Army are the only hope to protect and maintain a civil society in what is certain to follow.

 

Edited by sujoop
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44 minutes ago, sujoop said:

 

 

 

Unfortunately, via the referendum the junta has taken control of the Senate thru appointments for a period of 5 years to counter the Parliament House from attempting to take any more illicit moves as happened in the past many times (amnesty etc etc). This is NOT preferential. This is NOT desirable. However, after the shenanigans and violence of the past 10 years and with all coming to a head with succession looming and Thaksin seeking to 'make hay' simultaneously, again the Junta is unfortunately highly needed.
 

As for stating that one 'certainly hopes' 'the inevitable has started,  Guerrilla style attacks hit and run (hoping for more attacks, really???), well, sadly it appears you get your wish and with YL about to be docked billions for the rice scam, one fears this post-referendum attack was likely just a warm up to what's coming... Be careful what you wish for all you Thaksin-style 'demockracy' fan-boys.... Would rather reluctantly err on the side of the Military as unlike the mostly red-police, the Army are the only hope to protect and maintain a civil society in what is certain to follow.

 

 

Oh this forum is oh so amusing at times. Illicit moves like amnesty ? I do recall that over 300 MP's voted in favour for this amnesty. Democracy at work. The amnesty bill might not have been ideal, but it would have done more for reconciliation than Prayuth and CO have done in the 2.5 years they have uttered those words, they have done absolutely nothing, in fact they have just made the situation worse.

 

That amnesty would not have just benefitted Thaksin, it would have benefitted people on the other side as well. But the current amnesty, which was not backed by any MP and by extension, by no-one from the electorate, is alive and well, handles not only past but future transgressions, and only benefits the criminals that staged a coup (you do know that staging coups isn't legal right ?)

 

The most astonishing part of your post is that you show an absolute ignorance about Thai history and especially the Thai military. Make no mistake, they aren't here to better the country, they aren't here to better the Thai citizens, in fact, they have murdered more Thai citizens than any other organisation in Thailand.

 

They are here to ensure continued control over how the country is run, not because that would be better for the country (quite the opposite, the military has made a downright mess every time they were at the helm), it is to enrich themselves and the people who control them.

 

As to the attacks, there is no evidence whatsoever that Thaksin or the redshirts are behind it. The chance that the southern insurgents or whatever you would like to call them are behind it is far bigger. Again something about knowing Thai history, coupled with using logic.

 

Oh and it might surprise you, but not everyone that wants Democracy in Thailand and wants the current Junta gone, is a "Thaksin-style 'demockracy' fan-boy", how old are you, five ?

 

Edited by sjaak327
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So he's educated the world on democracy, human rights, reconciliation, transparency, anti-corruption and happiness, and now he's defining what people are. He's just lacking a decent definition of freedom, but give him time!

 

The man is surely the single most qualified to re-write the whole dictionary for the benefit of others. How terribly nice of him.

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Peoples constitution what rubbish.  If it was theirs why weren't they allowed to discuss it, why did the military arrest them for having an opinion and use the military to intimidate people.  No one really knows the results as it was done in complete secrecy and you just have to believe the draconian regime when they say they won or face fear of being arrested and dragged away.

Edited by Thechook
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7 hours ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

there are still a few people who think the army are doing the right thing taking complete control of the country and any further elections. i cant understand their way of thinking. the military dictatorship is firmly entrenched. we are looking at a long and bloody road before we get back to democracy again.

With the military having full control of all future governments and they have the full and final say who will be in the Senate and who will be  p.m there will never be a democracy.  A military regime lead by a lunatic controlling and crushing it's citizens isn't a democracy.

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15 hours ago, Alive said:

Depressing every day here. He knows with enough propaganda anything becomes true and glorious in the minds of the Thai people. The schools will brainwash the kids into believing it. I suspect there's going to be some real serious brainwashing going on here over the next few years if he is able to hang around. He's got a lot of things and people he needs to get the people to believe in and worship.

The kids have been brainwashed since a major curriculum change in 1952 (ish).  That is why him and his Elite cronies and the legions before him have got away with thuggery, treason,  absolute corruption and much worse as unfortunately they (99% the populace) know no better.

Of course the other 1% including the mighty General,  do not give a *hit about anyone other then themselves. 

 

Even though it was enacted by perhaps less than honest politicians,  the brief sniff of opportunity was snubbed out twice in recent years at gun point. One day, just like the Berlin wall,  it will all come down.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, whatawonderfulday said:

The kids have been brainwashed since a major curriculum change in 1952 (ish).  That is why him and his Elite cronies and the legions before him have got away with thuggery, treason,  absolute corruption and much worse as unfortunately they (99% the populace) know no better.

Of course the other 1% including the mighty General,  do not give a *hit about anyone other then themselves. 

 

Even though it was enacted by perhaps less than honest politicians,  the brief sniff of opportunity was snubbed out twice in recent years at gun point. One day, just like the Berlin wall,  it will all come down.

 

 

We might be witnessing the removal of the first proverbial brick ....

People , ( the real masses) realise they may need to step into the fray for their future and countries

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8 hours ago, sujoop said:

 

 

 

Unfortunately, via the referendum the junta has taken control of the Senate thru appointments for a period of 5 years to counter the Parliament House from attempting to take any more illicit moves as happened in the past many times (amnesty etc etc). This is NOT preferential. This is NOT desirable. However, after the shenanigans and violence of the past 10 years and with all coming to a head with succession looming and Thaksin seeking to 'make hay' simultaneously, again the Junta is unfortunately highly needed.
 

As for stating that one 'certainly hopes' 'the inevitable has started,  Guerrilla style attacks hit and run (hoping for more attacks, really???), well, sadly it appears you get your wish and with YL about to be docked billions for the rice scam, one fears this post-referendum attack was likely just a warm up to what's coming... Be careful what you wish for all you Thaksin-style 'demockracy' fan-boys.... Would rather reluctantly err on the side of the Military as unlike the mostly red-police, the Army are the only hope to protect and maintain a civil society in what is certain to follow.

 

 

 

Sadly, this opinion, or similar are widespread among those who don't really pay attention and aren't aware of the history.

 

The army has never and is not this time, protecting the people. They lie. They protect their own interests and are widely perceived to be even more corrupt than the police, though they threaten repercussions (like a coup, or capitalising on their connections) if anyone dares to peer too closely. In this, they have been aided and abetted by past officers (eg Prem Tinsulanonda, who I believe should have been imprisoned years ago for mistreatment of injured civilians when he was still an army officer).

 

The army is widely believed (with evidence) to be (or have been) involved in human trafficking, drug trafficking, extra-judicial killings and disappearances, prostitution. Even now, it's not allowed to question where Mr Prayuth gathered 600m+ million baht on a general's salary of 1m baht per year.

 

Really, they're worse than the much-maligned 'Royal' Thai Police Force, and because they're Thai, they have no conscience or principles to guide their behaviour, which as a consequence is 100% venal.

 

If you really believe what you've written, then I actually don't think you are reflecting well on yourself by writing it. I believe a few crazy things too (though not associated at all with Thailand), but I would never put them down in writing under my name - I'd be too embarrassed to put them on paper, digital or otherwise. I believe that's a better policy if I want to hold my head up high.

 

Winnie

Edited by Winniedapu
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If the 2016 Constitution is viewed as the People's Constitution, so too was the 2007 Constitution that was written and passed in almost the same manner. But note how much respect the millitary gave it:

Part 13, “Right to Protect the Constitution,” Article 68 - “No person shall exercise the rights and liberties prescribed in the Constitution to overthrow the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of State under this Constitution or to acquire the power to rule the country by any means which is not in accordance with the modes provided in this Constitution. “

This section is not found in the 2016 Constitution.

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If the "people" by his description are all military personnel, members of the police force in all it's variations, all bureaucrats and public servants and all those city slickers and top feeder heavies who owe a debt to those in power then he is probably right in his assessment.

 

Others outside these echelons might have a more encompassing and humanitarian interpretation of the term "people".

 

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