Retiring with 16mn Baht

[Ronuk]

13 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

I suggest making a list of things that would lead to a good relationship with a partner and then going out to search for that person.  How do you suggest finding a partner?  It is a good question and one of the most important decisions a single retired guy faces when he decides to retire in Thailand.   

 I have a good relationship. We happen to of met on Facebook at first and then moved on from there. She has a nice little business about 3 hours from me. We get together as and when we can but video chat for 10 minutes everyday if we are not together. We don't live in each others pockets and both have our own income streams. I actually enjoy my own space and wouldn't want to be with somebody 24/7.

[dick dasterdly]

1 minute ago, Ronuk said:

Not quite but I have no argument with anybody. People can do what they choose. If there is an argument, it's the fact that renting is dead money. That's a fact the world over.

Only when the land can be bought legally.

 

But its irrelevant as I know people that have found a way round the laws and have no problem.

 

The OP is about someone with a substantial sum, and whether this is enough to retire to Thailand.

 

If they can find a house/condo costing a couple of million bht in which they'd be happy to spend the rest of their life - then yes, its the cheapest option.  But they need to be VERY sure that this is the case, as if they try to sell (in most areas) they're going to lose money nowadays.

[Ronuk]

Just now, dick dasterdly said:

Only when the land can be bought legally.

 

But its irrelevant as I know people that have found a way round the laws and have no problem.

 

The OP is about someone with a substantial sum, and whether this is enough to retire to Thailand.

 

If they can find a house/condo costing a couple of million bht in which they'd be happy to spend the rest of their life - then yes, its the cheapest option.  But they need to be VERY sure that this is the case, as if they try to sell (in most areas) they're going to lose money nowadays.

You have posted exactly what I said about 3 pages back lol

[Scotwight]

5 minutes ago, Ronuk said:

Not quite but I have no argument with anybody. People can do what they choose. If there is an argument, it's the fact that renting is dead money. That's a fact the world over.

73% of the problems reported by Western men in Thailand according to my experience were involved with trying to buy or buying land/property in Thailand.  Many countries the world make it difficult for a foreigner to buy land.  For example Thailand, Greece, Mexico and Vietnam.  http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/1011/4-difficult-places-for-foreigners-to-buy-real-estate.aspx

 

In Thailand, foreigners cannot own land. The only way for a foreigner to own land is by forming a corporation that is 51% owned by Thai nationals. Otherwise, foreigners are generally restricted to leasing land, which has very weak property rights, or to buying condos or apartments, as long as foreign ownership does not exceed 40% of the building's units. Many types of title deeds in Thailand do not convey clear ownership. Foreigners cannot get mortgages from Thai banks, and a specific process must be followed when moving money into the country to purchase real estate.

 

[Ronuk]

3 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

73% of the problems reported by Western men in Thailand according to my experience were involved with trying to buy or buying land/property in Thailand.  Many countries the world make it difficult for a foreigner to buy land.  For example Thailand, Greece, Mexico and Vietnam.  http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/1011/4-difficult-places-for-foreigners-to-buy-real-estate.aspx

 

In Thailand, foreigners cannot own land. The only way for a foreigner to own land is by forming a corporation that is 51% owned by Thai nationals. Otherwise, foreigners are generally restricted to leasing land, which has very weak property rights, or to buying condos or apartments, as long as foreign ownership does not exceed 40% of the building's units. Many types of title deeds in Thailand do not convey clear ownership. Foreigners cannot get mortgages from Thai banks, and a specific process must be followed when moving money into the country to purchase real estate.

 

Yes yes yes. We all know how it works........And it's actually 49% of Foreign quota ownership in Condo buildings.

[homeseeker]

OP: A lot of replies to your initial posting.

 

My input is just my view. Your friend needs to do a few things:

 

i) from the sum available put aside 800,000 baht for the retirement visa;

ii) put aside a sum to get himself a medical insurance such as BUPA;

iii) put aside a sum for any emergency whilst in Thailand, medical or otherwise.

 

-With the money he has left he needs to decide:

iv)how much income it can generate-whilst retaining the capital- to give him a monthly  amount converted into baht (and he should seek the advice of a registered Financial Adviser in the UK not in Thailand);

v) calculate how much he needs monthly to live (including rent etc.,) acceptable to his standards for living in BKK or elsewhere in Thailand.

 

If iv) and v) are more or less equal, then maybe he will be ok to retire to BKK now.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2016 by homeseeker

[Scotwight]

3 minutes ago, Ronuk said:

Yes yes yes. We all know how it works........And it's actually 49% of Foreign quota ownership in Condo buildings.

What happens if a few over the limit Thai people sell to Farangs?  Or are they prevented from selling to Farangs?

[Scotwight]

9 minutes ago, homeseeker said:

OP: A lot of replies to your initial posting.

 

My input is just my view. Your friend needs to do a few things:

 

i) from the sum available put aside 800,000 baht for the retirement visa;

ii) put aside a sum to get himself a medical insurance such as BUPA;

iii) put aside a sum for any emergency whilst in Thailand, medical or otherwise.

 

-With the money he has left he needs to decide:

iv)how much income it can generate to give him a monthly  amount converted into baht (and he should seek the advice of a registered Financial Adviser in the UK not in Thailand);

v) calculate how much he needs monthly to live acceptably to his standards in BKK or elsewhere in Thailand.

 

If iv) and v) are more or less equal, then maybe he will be ok to retire to BKK now.

 

 

What figure do you allocate for health insurance?

Edited August 20, 2016 by Scotwight

[Ronuk]

5 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

What happens if a few over the limit Thai people sell to Farangs?  Or are they prevented from selling to Farangs?

You can only sell to a Farang if there is Foreign quota available.

[bow]

I am not sure, but can't you buy a sort of life insurance where you hand over a sum of money to an isurance company and they promise to pay you a monthly sum of money for the rest of your life. The general idea would be that if you drop dead the next day it is good business for the insurance company and if you live to 100 you win and the company loses.

 

Does these things excist, and if they do, how much would you get for 16 mil .? And is it safe ? If the insurance company goes bankrupt you are ... (Think of a very bad word).

 

[Naam]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sooooooo, just what is your opinion as to a Farang's acceptable living expenses in Thailand ?

Many would live on 15,000 or less a month and find it completely acceptable. I'd put 20,000 as a very satifactory amount, unless wanting to eat at Dukes every night and live in a lux house. That would be for routine bills of course, including rent, but entertainment, boozing, company, travel and health would be extra of course.

eg a nice condo in Chiang Mai is available for less than 10,000, and if you are eating over 5,000 worth of food a month you are probably eating too much.

 

one can have breakfast for 5,000 Baht and still go hungry. your opinion of "acceptable" and "satisfactory" differs from mine. the same applies to "routine bills" and a lot of other cost.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

44 minutes ago, bow said:

I am not sure, but can't you buy a sort of life insurance where you hand over a sum of money to an isurance company and they promise to pay you a monthly sum of money for the rest of your life. The general idea would be that if you drop dead the next day it is good business for the insurance company and if you live to 100 you win and the company loses.

 

Does these things excist, and if they do, how much would you get for 16 mil .? And is it safe ? If the insurance company goes bankrupt you are ... (Think of a very bad word).

 

 

Yes, at least in places outside Thailand, it's called an annuity.

 

It can be a reasonable part of a broader retirement planning scheme. But right now, it's probably not a very good choice, because interest rates are very low, and thus the return (monthly payment) a person would receive based on their original annuity funding would be pretty low.  Plus, you have fees and expenses associated with the issuing insurance company.

 

That's in the rest of the world. In Thailand, I wouldn't trust any local life insurance or similar company for a bare nickel.

 

[sezze]

15000 a month after paying the rent is perfectly doable and you can live a good life . Remember , you do not have to go to work anymore and many things do not cost a arm and leg .
 If you eat normal food , yes even cooked the western way , when you buy the ingredients yourself , does not cost a lot . Eating out in a restaurant is certainly a lot more expensive , especially western food . I would not imagine , wanting to live in Thailand and never eating Thai food , so you can eat it once a while also , even cheaper .

Aircon is nice , but you do not need it anywhere and everywhere .  Only the bedroom is good enough , thus saving on electric ( and yes it counts since every a/c is putting up 100's of baht a month on your bill ) .

You do not need those fancy all included sat tv providers . You can go standard and a decent internet connection giving you also every channel you want . A bit easier is just the basic packages which by itself can be interesting enough , and are saving you also 100's till 1000's of baht a month .

You do not need the most expensive health covering unless you want to stay in Bangkok Hospital ( where costs are more then a couple of times more then a normal private hospital ).

Drink a few beers at home instead of going to bars , it is doable . Going once a while to a bar is fine but remember that it is a lot more expensive then a night at home .

A car , if you are a bit further from the city centers is very practical . You want to go to Tesco or similar for food and other things . There are many choices, unless you want to be the big westerner , a smaller car or pickup , even 2nd hand is a good choice . Closer to the shops , a motorbike will do fine , and is very cheap to run . I go regularly with a bicycle to a Tesco Market , a few baht more then the big ones but closer and it gives be some nice workout along the way .

All these things make your live in Thailand sooo much cheaper or expensive , depending what you want 15000 or 100k a month , it is only what you want .

 

[mcfish]

2 minutes ago, sezze said:

15000 a month after paying the rent is perfectly doable and you can live a good life . Remember , you do not have to go to work anymore and many things do not cost a arm and leg .
 If you eat normal food , yes even cooked the western way , when you buy the ingredients yourself , does not cost a lot . Eating out in a restaurant is certainly a lot more expensive , especially western food . I would not imagine , wanting to live in Thailand and never eating Thai food , so you can eat it once a while also , even cheaper .

Aircon is nice , but you do not need it anywhere and everywhere .  Only the bedroom is good enough , thus saving on electric ( and yes it counts since every a/c is putting up 100's of baht a month on your bill ) .

You do not need those fancy all included sat tv providers . You can go standard and a decent internet connection giving you also every channel you want . A bit easier is just the basic packages which by itself can be interesting enough , and are saving you also 100's till 1000's of baht a month .

You do not need the most expensive health covering unless you want to stay in Bangkok Hospital ( where costs are more then a couple of times more then a normal private hospital ).

Drink a few beers at home instead of going to bars , it is doable . Going once a while to a bar is fine but remember that it is a lot more expensive then a night at home .

A car , if you are a bit further from the city centers is very practical . You want to go to Tesco or similar for food and other things . There are many choices, unless you want to be the big westerner , a smaller car or pickup , even 2nd hand is a good choice . Closer to the shops , a motorbike will do fine , and is very cheap to run . I go regularly with a bicycle to a Tesco Market , a few baht more then the big ones but closer and it gives be some nice workout along the way .

All these things make your live in Thailand sooo much cheaper or expensive , depending what you want 15000 or 100k a month , it is only what you want .

 

ummmm no sorry 500 bht a day ? please tell me your mistaken..why o why would a westener go to asia to be laughed at by the locals?.

[Craig krup]

On 8/18/2016 at 5:37 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

But when I first got into the stock market many years ago, didn't know much of anything and let a very big and well-known U.S. brokerage direct my investments, the portfolio of stocks they chose for me was very minimal in terms of dividends.

 

 

I've never, ever understood people allowing stockbrokers to buy and sell investments using your money. A colleague of mine lost £150,000 in 2007-8 when her portfolio - picked by a regional stockbrokers and stuffed full of bank shares - went pop. If stockbrokers could outperform the market they'd be sitting in a Mayfair office earning a hundred times what they are earning. "Allow us to play with your money, because we know more than the world and you'll be able to keep the gains". Yeah. You'll over-trade and clock up all you can in fees and soft commissions. 

 

This bloke has £350,000 (if he was a Brit). City of London investment trust yields just over 4%, as does Murray International. Invested in these two he'd get about £15,000 a year split in eight payments. This (at the moment) is 675,000 baht, or 56,000 baht a month. Share prices could collapse, the baht could soar against the pound, the sky could fall down....People don't like volatility. But aiming into an indefinite future (and in the absence of serious health problems) I'd be pretty confident that £15,000 a year in 2016 in investments that track the whole of the world would probably keep body and soul together in Thailand, and over a thirty year time frame I'd be pretty confident that the capital value would be preserved or grow. The biggest risk is not taking a risk. Sit in cash and run it down and you're definitely doomed. You need to have the cash sitting ready for a meltdown - which happens with monotonous regularity - and then you buy, and buy and buy and make huge losses day after day. Then you hold for ever and retire rich

 

All the clowns who told you to buy when the market was roaring ahead, and told you that you were a fool when you bought during the meltdown, they......well, they get to work for ever. 

Edited August 20, 2016 by Craig krup
Typo

[Craig krup]

7 hours ago, bow said:

I am not sure, but can't you buy a sort of life insurance where you hand over a sum of money to an isurance company and they promise to pay you a monthly sum of money for the rest of your life. The general idea would be that if you drop dead the next day it is good business for the insurance company and if you live to 100 you win and the company loses.

 

Does these things excist, and if they do, how much would you get for 16 mil .? And is it safe ? If the insurance company goes bankrupt you are ... (Think of a very bad word).

 

 

If you were buying with your own cash rather than a pension fund that the government had given you tax relief on, and you were buying it young, you could get what was called a "Purchased Life Annuity". The inland revenue in the UK treated most of the payment as if it was the return of capital so it was tax efficient. These days the gilt/Treasury market is knackered and distorted through quantitative easing and (I think) we could easily see inflation being allowed to rip so that governments can escape their debts. Personally I'm all-in on global equities. Annuity rates are pants. You're better off just investing in dividend payers and never taking any notice of the capital fluctuations (IMHO). 

[sezze]

2 hours ago, mcfish said:

ummmm no sorry 500 bht a day ? please tell me your mistaken..why o why would a westener go to asia to be laughed at by the locals?.

To live a more relaxing life ... or maybe because he likes the hot weather or any other reason .... whatever he or she wants to be in Thailand or any other country in the world .

Like a fat beerbelly or paying 10 times the amount like they or sunbathing do is not going to make them laugh . Why anybody laughs with other people is up to them also .

If that is your biggest concern , you have major issues in your life ( selfconfidence problems maybe ? ) .

Basic understanding , i want to be rich so i can show of how rich i am, so other people look up to me . I for example never look up to people having more money like i do. If you are poor or rich , i do not care even 1% .

Maybe you can better change to a country which still is a 3th world country , even better a 4th world country because then you can show off even more . I do not believe people come live in Thailand for showing off how well they ( or their parents ) did , i might be mistaken .

[MyFrenU]

On 15/08/2016 at 5:22 AM, MikeyIdea said:

I have my investments with Broadgate Advisory Group, part of deVere Group. British of course, very professional, office in Exchange Tower Sukhumvit

 

Far from 16 million though

 

Investments should be left to professionals, it's bad times out there now but still, average returns over a 10 year period should be 5%. Better than 7-8% and ouppps, half gone

DeVere is South African!

[chiang mai]

12 minutes ago, MyFrenU said:

DeVere is South African!

 

British: https://www.devere-group.com/globalpresence/

[MyFrenU]

Personally I would go for 2 or 3 Farang mansions in various locations around Isaan,a pickup,jeep and a couple of motorbikes for each one of them obviously.A bar in Pattaya and/or Phuket,a massage shop for one of the soon-to-be owners of the Farang mansions,plus another business or two maybe a coffee shop and/or restaurant that will obviously fail.
Add in at least three or four international school educations,for the various stepkids who will make no use of it whatsoever and subsequent places for at least a luk kreung or two that might actually do something with it but doubtful.Throw in a drinking habit,a heart attack or two and maybe a triple/quadruple bypass if the finances will stretch to it?
Then finally a flight back to Blighty with Aeroflot or Air India with a large overstay payment and a possible 5- 10 year ban from the Kingdom over the aforementioned overstay!
Now did I miss anything out?

[MyFrenU]

19 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sooooooo, just what is your opinion as to a Farang's acceptable living expenses in Thailand ?

Many would live on 15,000 or less a month and find it completely acceptable. I'd put 20,000 as a very satifactory amount, unless wanting to eat at Dukes every night and live in a lux house. That would be for routine bills of course, including rent, but entertainment, boozing, company, travel and health would be extra of course.

eg a nice condo in Chiang Mai is available for less than 10,000, and if you are eating over 5,000 worth of food a month you are probably eating too much.

As long as you like Mama Noodles,Pad Thais and rank Rotis you mean?

[Ronuk]

5000 Baht of food a month? Yes, see it now and cannot wait to try his 165 baht a day diet. I'm so spoilt for choice I just don't know where to start.

[Scotwight]

21 minutes ago, Ronuk said:

5000 Baht of food a month? Yes, see it now and cannot wait to try his 165 baht a day diet. I'm so spoilt for choice I just don't know where to start.

Start here.  How much should a retiree spend on food a month?

[Ronuk]

4 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

Start here.  How much should a retiree spend on food a month?

Impossible to answer for another person. It depends on his lifestyle, where and what he wants to eat. If I sat down and worked it out, I suppose I could tell you what I spent last month but would have no idea what I may spend next month or the month after. Do people really organise there life around these things?
My food bill is what it is, like the electric and water bill. I don't really drink Alcohol unless socially when a friend comes down from Bangkok so that isn't anything of a cost to me. I do drink Coke zero so I suppose 6 bottles day at 18bht or whatever it is a 500ml bottle so I know I may spend 500 to 600bht a month on that, Probably more. My condo is paid for as is my truck. I pay the management fees up front once a year and my health insurance is paid in one lump sum in the UK once a year.That at £2800 a year is my biggest cost. I don't like monthly bills.
Other than that, I couldn't tell you what my expenses are liable to be.

[Oxx]

 

It would appear that ThaiVisa supports DeVere Group/Broadgate  The latest email newsletter includes a featured topic "How we as expatriates can benefit from managing our income better, with an understanding of the FX opportunity" which links to www.inspirepattaya.com/business-travel/broadgate-mutual-fund-brokerage-securities-thailand-company-limited/ - written by Broadgate Securities.

[Scotwight]

4 minutes ago, Ronuk said:

Impossible to answer for another person. It depends on his lifestyle, where and what he wants to eat. If I sat down and worked it out, I suppose I could tell you what I spent last month but would have no idea what I may spend next month or the month after. Do people really organise there life around these things?
My food bill is what it is, like the electric and water bill. I don't really drink Alcohol unless socially when a friend comes down from Bangkok so that isn't anything of a cost to me. I do drink Coke zero so I suppose 6 bottles day at 18bht or whatever it is a 500ml bottle so I know I may spend 500 to 600bht a month on that, Probably more. My condo is paid for as is my truck. I pay the management fees up front once a year and my health insurance is paid in one lump sum in the UK once a year.That at £2800 a year is my biggest cost. I don't like monthly bills.
Other than that, I couldn't tell you what my expenses are liable to be.

So there is no way you can comment one way or the other on how much a person would need to retire here. I agree with you. 

[mcfish]

19 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

Start here.  How much should a retiree spend on food a month?

A single guy should not need a budget for food.If you want a seafood buffet you have that or som tam? have it.

 

The person budgeting for 165baht is telling us all they completely wasted their life with zero ambition and pissed it all up against the wall.

Its tragic to live out your golden years seeking out bars with balloons or boiled rice with a few slivers of chicken

[Ronuk]

1 minute ago, Scotwight said:

So there is no way you can comment one way or the other on how much a person would need to retire here. I agree with you. 

A westerner certainly would be in trouble trying to live on 165 baht for food a day. Lets hope he would have good medical cover because he would eventually need it. We know Thai's can do it but someone arriving from the UK and going straight on that diet will be end up with malnutrition inside 6 months.
Anybody suggesting an expat can survive on 5000 baht in food a month is wrong.

[up-country_sinclair]

This really isn't complicated.  Rent for at least a year, put the majority of the money in a low to moderate risk investment portfolio, get health insurance, find a part time job, find a good woman, live within a budget.

[dick dasterdly]

15 hours ago, sezze said:

15000 a month after paying the rent is perfectly doable and you can live a good life . Remember , you do not have to go to work anymore and many things do not cost a arm and leg .
 If you eat normal food , yes even cooked the western way , when you buy the ingredients yourself , does not cost a lot . Eating out in a restaurant is certainly a lot more expensive , especially western food . I would not imagine , wanting to live in Thailand and never eating Thai food , so you can eat it once a while also , even cheaper .

Aircon is nice , but you do not need it anywhere and everywhere .  Only the bedroom is good enough , thus saving on electric ( and yes it counts since every a/c is putting up 100's of baht a month on your bill ) .

You do not need those fancy all included sat tv providers . You can go standard and a decent internet connection giving you also every channel you want . A bit easier is just the basic packages which by itself can be interesting enough , and are saving you also 100's till 1000's of baht a month .

You do not need the most expensive health covering unless you want to stay in Bangkok Hospital ( where costs are more then a couple of times more then a normal private hospital ).

Drink a few beers at home instead of going to bars , it is doable . Going once a while to a bar is fine but remember that it is a lot more expensive then a night at home .

A car , if you are a bit further from the city centers is very practical . You want to go to Tesco or similar for food and other things . There are many choices, unless you want to be the big westerner , a smaller car or pickup , even 2nd hand is a good choice . Closer to the shops , a motorbike will do fine , and is very cheap to run . I go regularly with a bicycle to a Tesco Market , a few baht more then the big ones but closer and it gives be some nice workout along the way .

All these things make your live in Thailand sooo much cheaper or expensive , depending what you want 15000 or 100k a month , it is only what you want .

 

As always, it depends on the person.

 

My elec/'phone/internet/TV/gardening bills come to more than half of your 15,000 bht p.m.  Yes, I could reduce these costs - but prefer not to do so.

 

Similarly, I prefer to eat Western food and even though I generally cook it myself - still pay more for foods that are closer to my definition of 'acceptable'.

 

Plus, if we have a pet/s - we have to buy them good quality food/protection against heart worm, ticks., vet bills etc. etc.

 

And that's without taking into consideration health insurance - which starts off expensive, and gets more so the older we get.