Retiring with 16mn Baht

[DrDave]

14 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

Says UOB, and it make sense. If your pattern of transfers is to serve your living expenses each year, it would be unreasonable to ask to repatriate all those expenses, for example, at the end of say five years, that picture suggests the person has unexplained income.

Yes, this is what I was getting at. Allowing repatriation of 100% of funds that were brought in to cover personal expenses seems to open the door to fraud. 

How would a bank, or the BOT decide exactly how much of the original amount of an inbound transaction (brought in for varying reasons) should be allowed to be repatriated? 

[Peterw42]

I have been following this thread for a couple of days and the thought struck me that I have done the whole thing on 15m Baht.

I brought a rental property in Australia for 7m Baht, a condo in thailand for 1.5m Baht. 1.5m Baht into Australian share market and 5m baht in savings.

This set up gives me 50k a month, rental income, dividends and some share trading. Most of the time I live on that ok, no rent to pay, sometimes draw some savings for big items like a phone laptop etc

Superanuation comes next year and the pension a couple of years after that.

 

[DrDave]

10 minutes ago, Naam said:

 

"all those expenses" would be of course unreasonable but if you have planned to buy or perhaps bought an expensive item (e.g. a car) which cost a multiple of your average living expenses there is no problem to re-transfer the amount if that wasn't used or the amount for which the car was sold. 

 

So, if I were to walk into the bank and say "That 2 million baht I transferred in a few months ago was to be used to buy a car, but I changed my mind and now I want to send the 2 million baht back" the bank would allow it?  How could they be sure I didn't buy the car?  How could they be sure that the 2 million really didn't come from "somewhere else"?

[Naam]

2 hours ago, DrDave said:

So, if I were to walk into the bank and say "That 2 million baht I transferred in a few months ago was to be used to buy a car, but I changed my mind and now I want to send the 2 million baht back" the bank would allow it?  How could they be sure I didn't buy the car?  How could they be sure that the 2 million really didn't come from "somewhere else"?

i can hardly believe that you come up again with the same utmost illogical assumption. would any sane person transfer 2 million from offshore to Thailand to be able to transfer 2 million out of Thailand which came from "somewhere else"?

[gk10002000]

On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 3:41 AM, returnofthailand said:

I could spend 60k a month to but I spend only 8k baht.
I live in a high rise building, lot of air, my rent cost 4k a month. rest is for food. I try to spend more but I can not. at the end, my stomach is full, I feel good and clean.

I should do something wrong . how is it possible to have 60k and spend only 8k? I can not understand it myself.

I calculated 3 times, and it seems correct.
room 4k
food, travel, dentist, hair cut, fuel= 4k

total 8k.

4 +4=8 right?
normally I should spend 60k.

so tell me where is the mistake.?


 

 

 

 

 

4000 baht for food, travel, dentist and fuel?  Lets' just say 4000 baht for food alone.  Eat at KISS restaurant in Pattaya, one of the cheaper places, fried rice dish and watermelon shake = 100 baht.  You aren't going to gain weight on that diet.  Add in 30 baht for noodle soup at the 7-11 places.  10 baht for bottle of water. so another 40 baht.  This is subsistence living.  you will not eat that same food for 30 days each month.

[chiang mai]

7 hours ago, DrDave said:

So, if I were to walk into the bank and say "That 2 million baht I transferred in a few months ago was to be used to buy a car, but I changed my mind and now I want to send the 2 million baht back" the bank would allow it?  How could they be sure I didn't buy the car?  How could they be sure that the 2 million really didn't come from "somewhere else"?

 

I took the approach with UOB that I spend X every month in living expenses and that can be verified by examining my withdrawls every month, withdrawls from your bank. Subtract that amount from Y, the total of my inbound transfers and that's the amount I would (theoretically) want to repatriate in the future - one off capital expenditure such as cars and houses can be treated as exceptions and verified via separate purchase/sales receipts. So five years expenses at 60k a month = 3.6 mill. versus inbound funds totalling 5 mill, balance available for transfer = 1.4 mill., plus interest earned over five years, on which tax is shown to have be paid (no capex in the period). 

 

Thailand, the hub of forensic accounting expats.

[sezze]

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

4000 baht for food, travel, dentist and fuel?  Lets' just say 4000 baht for food alone.  Eat at KISS restaurant in Pattaya, one of the cheaper places, fried rice dish and watermelon shake = 100 baht.  You aren't going to gain weight on that diet.  Add in 30 baht for noodle soup at the 7-11 places.  10 baht for bottle of water. so another 40 baht.  This is subsistence living.  you will not eat that same food for 30 days each month.

 

I agree , it is not a lot . However , the dentist , i don't think he does it every month . Travel is probably by foot , bike or motorbike , hence saving a lot . The haircut is probably 80 baht so , 1 time a month doesn't break the bank .

Lets say that leaves 3500 baht for food . If you look at my calculation you will see it is perfectly doable . He probably cookes food at home , and eats probably many times asian food since it is a bit cheaper .

You are mentioning eat here and drink there , so yes that is not possible .He cookes at home and even can eat food in a Thai restaurant , not a farang restaurant .

Fried rice dish 40 baht in restaurant . Watermelon shake , homemade 10 baht . Your bottle of water for 10 baht , he probably uses the big bottles and that way he cannot drink 10 baht of water in a day ( unless going to hospital since he's drained of minerals ) . Having the same food you had , saved more then 50% and even the cooking is still on street ( not home were the same fried rice dish is probably more like 20 baht .

[DrDave]

6 hours ago, Naam said:

i can hardly believe that you come up again with the same utmost illogical assumption. would any sane person transfer 2 million from offshore to Thailand to be able to transfer 2 million out of Thailand which came from "somewhere else"?

 

The "somewhere else" I was referring to was unreported income earned in Thailand, not questionable funds transferred in from another country.

 

Here's the scenario:
Mr X is on a Retirement Extension and transfers in 1 million baht annually from his home country. He uses this to show Immigration he satisfies the "money in the bank" requirement when doing his Retirement Extension each year. Mr X also owns several condos in Thailand, which he rents out under the radar on a cash basis. He uses the money he transferred in to fund his living expenses, so there's a record of steady withdrawals from the account he shows Immigration. He repatriates, from a different account, the money he collects from his condo rentals. At some later point, he then transfers that money from his home country into his Thai account for the next Retirement Extension and the annual cycle begins again. (He could just as easily do this by carrying the rental receipts in cash back to his home country each year, but I'm assuming he doesn't want to make those trips).

 

I'm not sure if I have all the details correct, and this may seem a bit "far out", but I have heard of at least one local expat who's doing something similar to this - basically looping funds between his home country and Thailand. I don't really want to know the details, though. Of course he'd be taking a double hit on exchange rates, but theoretically he'd be able to fund his retirement living expenses and satisfy Immigration's requirements year after year while adding very little "new" money from his home country. Seems more than a little dodgy and risky to me, but I guess it might be possible if the bank(s) will generate an FET form which would enable the "repatriation" of the funds transferred in each year.  That's a big "if".

 

In reality, I think user ChiangMai has a much more realistic and common-sense view provided that the banks are willing to go though all of the documentation and analysis he outlined in order to approve and process an outbound transfer. I don't know how they would be able to document this if the BOT should ever ask for backup information, but this would obviously prohibit the activity as outlined above.
 

[Naam]

2 hours ago, DrDave said:

Mr X is...

 

...should he really exist, an ignorant. nobody at immigration checks how much was transferred and how much was spent in any given period. quite a number of people keep their mandatory "retirement funds" in an account without ever touching it.

 

but i have to agree that if the constructed case was real the bank would have objections to approve a transfer more than once.

[returnofthailand]

again I live in a high rise building so no need of ac.
Tesco, big c, and shopping mall have food court.

I spend 9 to 10k a month with visa included and I live better than the average farangs here. well I m a smart guy people say . so it helps being smart.

guys who need more than 10k need a brain checkup. some guys can not live with less 100k. I wonder where all their money go. probably to gogo ladies, drug or dodgy business.
these guys are clowns. they don't make very long here in Thailand.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 hours ago, Naam said:

 

...should he really exist, an ignorant. nobody at immigration checks how much was transferred and how much was spent in any given period. quite a number of people keep their mandatory "retirement funds" in an account without ever touching it.

 

 

Generally speaking, in most places, that is true.

 

Unfortunately, there are reports by members here that SOME Immigration offices ARE demanding to see proof of 65,000 baht+ per month being spent in Thailand as part of the retirement extension process. Although clearly, that's not required in the actual Immigration regulations.

 

[Scotwight]

6 hours ago, returnofthailand said:

again I live in a high rise building so no need of ac.
Tesco, big c, and shopping mall have food court.

I spend 9 to 10k a month with visa included and I live better than the average farangs here. well I m a smart guy people say . so it helps being smart.

 

 

guys who need more than 10k need a brain checkup. some guys can not live with less 100k. I wonder where all their money go. probably to gogo ladies, drug or dodgy business.
these guys are clowns. they don't make very long here in Thailand.

 

 

I spend a lot of money on go go ladies why do you think I won't make it very long?  I'm old and afraid every encounter might be my last or I'll need some help so I always hire 3 go go ladies and an ambulance on standby.  

Edited August 24, 2016 by Scotwight

[12DrinkMore]

2 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

I spend a lot of money on go go ladies why do you think I won't make it very long?  I'm old and afraid every encounter might be my last or I'll need some help so I always hire 3 go go ladies and an ambulance on standby.  

 

The ambulance is for the exhausted ladies, no doubt.

 

 

[South]

A troll or not ...

 

Can't be bothered reading the whole thread but here is my 2 Satangs worth. I would say that 90+% of the farangs living here can only dream about that much cash (TEFLR's, onliners etc). Pretty much every farang I meet, bar a few are living month to month on their meagre pay checks. 16 million, think about it, set something up where you get a good income and you will be alright. Don't burn your bridges back home, keep a sensible head and you could live here forever. If a TEFLer can live on 360k a year I'm sure you can too. That's 44 years for a TEFLer, but I think you might be a little more intelligent.!

[Scotwight]

9 hours ago, South said:

A troll or not ...

 

Can't be bothered reading the whole thread but here is my 2 Satangs worth. I would say that 90+% of the farangs living here can only dream about that much cash (TEFLR's, onliners etc). Pretty much every farang I meet, bar a few are living month to month on their meagre pay checks. 16 million, think about it, set something up where you get a good income and you will be alright. Don't burn your bridges back home, keep a sensible head and you could live here forever. If a TEFLer can live on 360k a year I'm sure you can too. That's 44 years for a TEFLer, but I think you might be a little more intelligent.!

Can't be bothered reading your whole post but,

"You have no complaint
You are what your are and you ain't what you ain't
So listen up buster, and listen up good
Stop wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood"

[Scotwight]

On 8/18/2016 at 10:05 PM, Naam said:

i have no idea why anyone would rent.

 

[chiang mai]

13 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

 

Real estate and real estate related fraud happens in every country, even in the land of the free.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-detroit-property-insight-idUSKBN0TS0FM20151209

 

https://www.usa.gov/housing-scams

 

 

Edited August 25, 2016 by chiang mai

[Scotwight]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

 

Real estate and real estate related fraud happens in every country, even in the land of the free.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-detroit-property-insight-idUSKBN0TS0FM20151209

 

https://www.usa.gov/housing-scams

 

 

And in most Western countries there is legal recourse.  But one would have to be crazy to buy in Thailand where it is illegal and with no legal recourse.  

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, Scotwight said:

And in most Western countries there is legal recourse.  But one would have to be crazy to buy in Thailand where it is illegal and with no legal recourse.  

 

You may not believe it, you may never have seen it in operation, but there is a fully functioning and highly effective legal system in operation in Thailand and it's available for anyone to use.

[Scotwight]

29 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

You may not believe it, you may never have seen it in operation, but there is a fully functioning and highly effective legal system in operation in Thailand and it's available for anyone to use.

  We ask for justice -  British man and Thai wife seek justice after losing 14 million baht

By webfact in Pattaya News, 6 hours ago

We ask for justice -  British man and Thai wife seek justice after losing 14...

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The Thai justice system is based on the principles of feudalism.  This is especially apparent reading the news section of Thai Visa and the different standards of justice meted out  depending on the persons involved.  There have been many examples of this recently involving automobiles.  You can look it up or keep reading the news section.

 

However it is illegal for a Farang to buy land in Thailand which is my point as demonstrated by the news story above.  If you are dumb enough to violate both the letter and spirit of the law and try to buy land in Thailand -  put your head between your legs and kiss your bottom goodby.

 

 

 

 

 149 replies

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, Scotwight said:

  We ask for justice -  British man and Thai wife seek justice after losing 14 million baht

By webfact in Pattaya News, 6 hours ago

We ask for justice -  British man and Thai wife seek justice after losing 14...

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•  149 replies

The Thai justice system is based on the principles of feudalism.  This is especially apparent reading the news section of Thai Visa and the different standards of justice meted out  depending on the persons involved.  There have been many examples of this recently involving automobiles.  You can look it up or keep reading the news section.

 

However it is illegal for a Farang to buy land in Thailand which is my point as demonstrated by the news story above.  If you are dumb enough to violate both the letter and spirit of the law and try to buy land in Thailand -  put your head between your legs and kiss your bottom goodby.

 

 

 

 

 149 replies

 

I understand that by calling it feudal it makes it seem more creaky and unfit for purpose, fact is the Thai legal system is based on the UK system.

 

The problem is not that foreigners cannot buy land here, there are legal ways to meet those objectives without having to buy. But since you're like a dog with a bone on the word buy, I wont debate this aspect with you any further. The problem is that there are too many stupid foreigners trying to do stupid things when it comes to property purchases, they try to buy covertly, they set themselves up to fail, they sign documents written in Thai (which they don't understand), they put blind trust in their newly acquired partner, they trust their new, ahem, family, they accept recommendations for lawyers who are scurrilous at best and they don't check things - those are the reasons why we read all the horror stories about farangs being ripped off, it's not because  of the legal system it's because of their stupid behaviour. And if that sounds harsh to people reading this it's not meant to be, it's just a simple fact. I have two farang friends who I thought were smarter but they have done stupid things when buying property and ultimately, both will lose because of what they did, there must be thousands of similar cases out there.On the other hand, I know of several people who have used segments of existing Thai law to their advantage and have entered into usufructs and leases etc and they look to be set for the rest of their lives, without a problem.

[yaagjon]

On ‎24‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 3:43 PM, returnofthailand said:

again I live in a high rise building so no need of ac.
Tesco, big c, and shopping mall have food court.

I spend 9 to 10k a month with visa included and I live better than the average farangs here. well I m a smart guy people say . so it helps being smart.

 

 

 

 

guys who need more than 10k need a brain checkup. some guys can not live with less 100k. I wonder where all their money go. probably to gogo ladies, drug or dodgy business.
these guys are clowns. they don't make very long here in Thailand.

 

 

If you are living on 10k a month you aren't smart.

[dick dasterdly]

On 8/20/2016 at 10:01 PM, sezze said:

 

 

11 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

I understand that by calling it feudal it makes it seem more creaky and unfit for purpose, fact is the Thai legal system is based on the UK system.

 

The problem is not that foreigners cannot buy land here, there are legal ways to meet those objectives without having to buy. But since you're like a dog with a bone on the word buy, I wont debate this aspect with you any further. The problem is that there are too many stupid foreigners trying to do stupid things when it comes to property purchases, they try to buy covertly, they set themselves up to fail, they sign documents written in Thai (which they don't understand), they put blind trust in their newly acquired partner, they trust their new, ahem, family, they accept recommendations for lawyers who are scurrilous at best and they don't check things - those are the reasons why we read all the horror stories about farangs being ripped off, it's not because  of the legal system it's because of their stupid behaviour. And if that sounds harsh to people reading this it's not meant to be, it's just a simple fact. I have two farang friends who I thought were smarter but they have done stupid things when buying property and ultimately, both will lose because of what they did, there must be thousands of similar cases out there.On the other hand, I know of several people who have used segments of existing Thai law to their advantage and have entered into usufructs and leases etc and they look to be set for the rest of their lives, without a problem.

Can you explain exactly what you mean by the emboldened part of your post?

[thaibeachlovers]

10 minutes ago, yaagjon said:

If you are living on 10k a month you aren't smart.

Rubbish. If you can live on 10,000 it means you have lots more for the important things in life, such as takeaways.

I bet he's not fat either.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Generally speaking, in most places, that is true.

 

Unfortunately, there are reports by members here that SOME Immigration offices ARE demanding to see proof of 65,000 baht+ per month being spent in Thailand as part of the retirement extension process. Although clearly, that's not required in the actual Immigration regulations.

 

YE GADS. Good luck getting receipts from the gogo ladies that are hired out of the bar.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 24 สิงหาคม 2559 at 5:28 AM, sezze said:

 

I agree , it is not a lot . However , the dentist , i don't think he does it every month . Travel is probably by foot , bike or motorbike , hence saving a lot . The haircut is probably 80 baht so , 1 time a month doesn't break the bank .

Lets say that leaves 3500 baht for food . If you look at my calculation you will see it is perfectly doable . He probably cookes food at home , and eats probably many times asian food since it is a bit cheaper .

You are mentioning eat here and drink there , so yes that is not possible .He cookes at home and even can eat food in a Thai restaurant , not a farang restaurant .

Fried rice dish 40 baht in restaurant . Watermelon shake , homemade 10 baht . Your bottle of water for 10 baht , he probably uses the big bottles and that way he cannot drink 10 baht of water in a day ( unless going to hospital since he's drained of minerals ) . Having the same food you had , saved more then 50% and even the cooking is still on street ( not home were the same fried rice dish is probably more like 20 baht .

I agree.

For myself, I cut my own hair ( #1 with a hair clipper ), eat at home.

If anyone wants to eat healthy AND save lots of money, stop consuming anything with sugar. It makes one fat too.

Can get to Chiang Mai and back on the m'bike for 50 baht. Cheaper than using songtheaws.

It's not compulsory to spend lots of money.

[returnofthailand]

If you are living on 10k a month you aren't smart.

mouhahahah you think you smart because you borrow from banks and have a nice life to finish one day on the streets.. I see many farangs sleeping on the beach here in Pattaya.

my room cost me 4k, food 4k and 2k for the rest.

I fly jet, I have vehicles, I eat all the food I want, I have ladies, I have Seaview, fresh air in my room, cable TV, Internet, etc etc....

yes I m smart. and probably smarter than u. u need to work for that. I don't work. I enjoy my time. I have the time for myself.

today I will go to swimming pool look at sexy ladies and sip a few coconut drinks, I will think about you trying to make 100k a month in your clostrophibic office in San Francisco just to get my life style.

you are all a bunch of socialist capitalist clowns with your worthless money. you come here with your millions baht and immigration will kick you out with your empty pockets . you don't have the concept of more for less but you are less for more, you are old fashioned, you are a fossil in Thailand. ladies make fun of you.

even the IRS is laughing at you.

[chiang mai]

31 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Can you explain exactly what you mean by the emboldened part of your post?

 

An usufruct is enshrined in Thai law and is proven, AS LONG AS people follow the rules.

 

An usufruct gives the holder the right to live in a property and to determine who else does and/or does not, it can be valid for life or for a specific term. It also gives the holder the right to enter into a lease with a third party which remains valid for up to thirty years AND beyond the death of the usufruct holder.

 

But an usufruct between husband and wife can be made invalid at divorce, an usufruct that is free of any payments to the landowner is also deemed unsafe hence, monthly or annual payments are advised. 

[Scotwight]

4 hours ago, chiang mai said:

 

I understand that by calling it feudal it makes it seem more creaky and unfit for purpose, fact is the Thai legal system is based on the UK system.

 

The problem is not that foreigners cannot buy land here, there are legal ways to meet those objectives without having to buy. But since you're like a dog with a bone on the word buy, I wont debate this aspect with you any further. The problem is that there are too many stupid foreigners trying to do stupid things when it comes to property purchases, they try to buy covertly, they set themselves up to fail, they sign documents written in Thai (which they don't understand), they put blind trust in their newly acquired partner, they trust their new, ahem, family, they accept recommendations for lawyers who are scurrilous at best and they don't check things - those are the reasons why we read all the horror stories about farangs being ripped off, it's not because  of the legal system it's because of their stupid behaviour. And if that sounds harsh to people reading this it's not meant to be, it's just a simple fact. I have two farang friends who I thought were smarter but they have done stupid things when buying property and ultimately, both will lose because of what they did, there must be thousands of similar cases out there.On the other hand, I know of several people who have used segments of existing Thai law to their advantage and have entered into usufructs and leases etc and they look to be set for the rest of their lives, without a problem.

Read the above Thai Visa article for the part of Thailand you apparently are not familiar with.  

Edited August 25, 2016 by Scotwight

[Craig krup]

On 8/22/2016 at 9:32 AM, 4MyEgo said:

Buying bank shares to me is as safe as having money in the bank,

 

It just so isn't. Even senior and junior debt - much safer than shares - is way too much risk for most investors: witness what's happening in Italy right now. 

 

You can get 4.4-5% in diversified UK investments. Mad to do anything else.