Retiring with 16mn Baht

[Red13]

2 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

You're forgetting the effect of inflation.  Assuming 3% inflation (and that's conservative), the 50,000 baht will be worth around half after 25 years.

 

And as one ages, one's expenses can rise (medical costs, care home or full time carer).

 

Agreed, although inflation is generally an unknown quantity. 2% PA would be a generous figure and could be offset in part by sound money management i.e. dividing the capital into high interest current accounts or seeking a high return savings account that doesn't allow instant access.

 

Health concerns can never be accurately predicted. Maybe he'll live the next 25 years without a single trip to a hospital or maybe not. If currently in good health I would be happy to take the plunge with decent medical insurance.

 

There are people from developed countries who would consider a lump sum of £350k to be riches beyond their wildest dreams and get by with far less. Sitting around in my golden years wondering what if isn't my idea of fun.

 

What I find fascinating is the apparent shed load of pensioners spending 200000 baht a month in their retirement. Most adults (even from the US and UK) don't earn anywhere near that figure throughout their adult lives so it can hardly be taken as the norm.

[Oxx]

26 minutes ago, Red13 said:

 

Agreed, although inflation is generally an unknown quantity. 2% PA would be a generous figure and could be offset in part by sound money management

 

Health concerns can never be accurately predicted. Maybe he'll live the next 25 years without a single trip to a hospital or maybe not. If currently in good health I would be happy to take the plunge with decent medical insurance.

 

2% is a ridiculously low projection of inflation in any country.  Plenty of countries have hit an annual inflation rate of 10% or more.  According to the [Thai] Bureau of Trade and Economic Indices,

 

"The Core Inflation Rate in Thailand averaged 2.75 percent from 1985 until 2016, reaching an all time high of 8.54 percent in April of 1998"

 

And yes, health concerns can't be predicted, and that's why one needs a very large buffer to protect oneself from enormous costs.  Medical insurance doesn't cover everything, and it covers nothing once one gets old.

[Red13]

40 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

2% is a ridiculously low projection of inflation in any country.  Plenty of countries have hit an annual inflation rate of 10% or more.  According to the [Thai] Bureau of Trade and Economic Indices,

 

"The Core Inflation Rate in Thailand averaged 2.75 percent from 1985 until 2016, reaching an all time high of 8.54 percent in April of 1998"

 

And yes, health concerns can't be predicted, and that's why one needs a very large buffer to protect oneself from enormous costs.  Medical insurance doesn't cover everything, and it covers nothing once one gets old.

 

"Inflation Rate in the Euro Area averaged 2.02 percent from 1991 until 2016, reaching an all time high of 5 percent in July of 1991 and a record low of -0.70 percent in July of 2009. Inflation Rate in the Euro Area is reported by the Eurostat."

 

Our figures suggest the same thing so I'm happy with my 2%. Using a country such as Venezuela as an example would be misreprasentative.

 

As for health provision, let's tackle it another way. Could you put a figure on the average health care cost required to take a human from the age of 50 until death (or just 75 if easier) and then compare that figure to the financial welfare of those persons living in countries where they are not eligible for state funded assistance?

 

Average health care costs for the over 65 age category were £14,000 per year in 2010. Let's say £10,000 a year between the ages of 50 and 75 - £250,000. How many of the aforementioned people have access to such funds, put aside purely for the provision of healthcare?

 

On that basis, the OP's friend will never be able to retire, or at least not until 65 when he can then watch every penny until the day he dies.

 

 

 

 

[DrDave]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

<snip>

If he drew down up to 4% on his savings per year on top of the money he earned from a fixed savings account, say 40,000 baht per month as you mention, his savings could last him for 25 years based on a  maximum of 4% draw down annually, that's an extra 53,000 baht per month on top of the 40,000 baht per month from the savings which equates to 93,000 baht per month, very doable, but I believe this figure would have to be adjusted because he hasn't landed here yet and will have set up costs, e.g. if buying a place, a car etc etc this will reduce his saving, as will furniture and electrical goods, however its is still doable as long as he is conservative in his approach for retirement.

 

<snip>

The problem with this is that the account that he'd be drawing his monthly expenses from is the same as the account he'd be earning interest on - it's all the same pot of money.  In order to get anything above about one half of one percent interest per annum, he needs to have a fixed (time) deposit.

 

At K-Bank, for instance, these are paying anywhere from 0.9 to 3.3%, depending upon the term and any special conditions. (For example, the accounts paying the highest rates require the purchase of a life/p.a. insurance policy through the bank, others require minimum monthly deposits, and so on).

 

The real issue is that being a fixed account, withdrawals are not permitted. If you make a withdrawal to cover your monthly expenses, you will forfeit the interest normally paid on the fixed account. This then means that something less than the 16 million would be deposited to a fixed account, with the remainder held in a savings account which permits withdrawals to cover monthly expenses. In the simplest case, he would deposit enough money in a regular savings account to provide for 12 months of living expenses, and the balance in a 12 month fixed account earning the best rate he can find. At the end of the first 12 months, repeat the process - rolling the fixed account balance (original principal + interest) minus another 12 months of living expenses into a new 12 month fixed account. It's a safe assumption that the interest earned over the 12 month period is not enough to fund the next year's living expenses, therefor the amount rolled over to a new fixed account will decrease each year until there's nothing left. This is a fairly risky approach, as he would be subject to interest rate fluctuations from one year to the next, while living expenses will most likely rise year over year.

[Naam]

13 hours ago, sezze said:

Wow , 4000kwh in 1 month , you alone are taking care of global warming . I hope you have a nice company , so that you actually do something usefull with the electric .

Thats 5.55kw every hour of every day .

no i don't have a company that draws energy. ~50% of the electricity consumption is "usefully used" that we feel comfortable in our home. as simple as that.

[4MyEgo]

13 minutes ago, DrDave said:

The problem with this is that the account that he'd be drawing his monthly expenses from is the same as the account he'd be earning interest on - it's all the same pot of money.  In order to get anything above about one half of one percent interest per annum, he needs to have a fixed (time) deposit.

 

At K-Bank, for instance, these are paying anywhere from 0.9 to 3.3%, depending upon the term and any special conditions. (For example, the accounts paying the highest rates require the purchase of a life/p.a. insurance policy through the bank, others require minimum monthly deposits, and so on).

 

The real issue is that being a fixed account, withdrawals are not permitted. If you make a withdrawal to cover your monthly expenses, you will forfeit the interest normally paid on the fixed account. This then means that something less than the 16 million would be deposited to a fixed account, with the remainder held in a savings account which permits withdrawals to cover monthly expenses. In the simplest case, he would deposit enough money in a regular savings account to provide for 12 months of living expenses, and the balance in a 12 month fixed account earning the best rate he can find. At the end of the first 12 months, repeat the process - rolling the fixed account balance (original principal + interest) minus another 12 months of living expenses into a new 12 month fixed account. It's a safe assumption that the interest earned over the 12 month period is not enough to fund the next year's living expenses, therefor the amount rolled over to a new fixed account will decrease each year until there's nothing left. This is a fairly risky approach, as he would be subject to interest rate fluctuations from one year to the next, while living expenses will most likely rise year over year.

 

Naturally I agree with your post Dr.

 

In my case I have enough for a year in an account that I draw down monthly @ 2.75%, the balance of my retirement monies is split into 2, half in fixed term deposits and half in bank shares.

 

The fixed term deposits earn me 2.5% & 2.6% paid upon maturity (yearly) & yes rates are on the decline, but in Australia, they just increased them by half a percentage point to 3.05% and upon maturity if rates are not on the up, I will do the same as below

 

Buying bank shares to me is as safe as having money in the bank, however the capital may drop (more than likely in today's environment), however the dividends fully franked are currently paying 5.6% which is a little over double what the banks are paying me in the term deposits, so like I said, if at the end of the fixed terms, if the rates are not on the up, I will be buying some more blue chip stocks that are paying good dividends, the capital going down doesn't really worry me all that much because (A: I don't require the capital to live on and (B: The fully franked dividend is what I live off, with regard to the capital, everything has to come back up in time.

 

Apart from the above, I don't know where else to park my $'s in a low risk environment providing me with equal returns or more any suggestions Doc ?

[Scotwight]

8 hours ago, zeichen said:

First of all, why does it have to be a Thai bank account?  He could easily invest it abroad earning up to 5%.  He could also invest in rental properties and generate between 3 and 5% ROI, even more if the property increases in value.

 

Second,  I have 3 bank accounts here that pay 3% or more in interest.

 

My wife has one account where she deposits 5k baht a month and gets 4.4% interest. 

It has to be a Thai bank account because the guy is retiring to Thailand and us old guys don't want to mess with foreign exchange rates and failing countries giving high interest rates.  I'll leave those things to the speculators who have years and cash to spare.  This OP is a retired guy in Thailand.  A bank account would be a Thai bank account.   I had accounts with Australian and Singaporean banks and it was a hassle.  Every time the exchange rate went down they bothered me about minimum balances and all sorts of stuff like that and the American thing.  So yes it has to be a Thai bank.  

[DrDave]

8 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Naturally I agree with your post Dr.

 

In my case I have enough for a year in an account that I draw down monthly @ 2.75%, the balance of my retirement monies is split into 2, half in fixed term deposits and half in bank shares.

 

The fixed term deposits earn me 2.5% & 2.6% paid upon maturity (yearly) & yes rates are on the decline, but in Australia, they just increased them by half a percentage point to 3.05% and upon maturity if rates are not on the up, I will do the same as below

 

Buying bank shares to me is as safe as having money in the bank, however the capital may drop (more than likely in today's environment), however the dividends fully franked are currently paying 5.6% which is a little over double what the banks are paying me in the term deposits, so like I said, if at the end of the fixed terms, if the rates are not on the up, I will be buying some more blue chip stocks that are paying good dividends, the capital going down doesn't really worry me all that much because (A: I don't require the capital to live on and (B: The fully franked dividend is what I live off, with regard to the capital, everything has to come back up in time.

 

Apart from the above, I don't know where else to park my $'s in a low risk environment providing me with equal returns or more any suggestions Doc ?

My comments about the fixed deposits were relative to Thai banks, assuming the OP's friend wanted to bring his newly found 16 million baht with him to Thailand. As you indicated, you can do a lot better these days with deposits in other countries. The point I wanted to make (but didn't make clearly) was that while he could start off with an extra 53,000 baht/month, that will decrease over time as his principal gets consumed - not the situation most people want to be in looking forward.

I've shifted my goals from capital appreciation to capital conservation and income, so I've been spending a lot of time recently researching places to park money with good returns but minimal risk. As we all know, there's no big reward without risk. The fixed deposit rate of 3.05% you mention looks to be very good compared to all of the equities I've been looking at. At this point, I'm not interested in capital appreciation, so a guaranteed 3.05% with virtually zero risk looks like a very choice to me.

Another poster referenced a number of ETFs and REITs that have worked out well for him. Over the past 3-4 years, some of these have lost 30% or so of their value, but things seem to have stabilized over the past year. Some of these might be worth a look as they can earn 4-11%, with varying degrees of volatility. Those with low volatility are obviously at the lower end of the return scale: 4-5%, but for me, these are more appropriate. Finding a good investment with low volatility, a decent rate of return, and moderate leverage (important with rising interest rates) is like finding a needle in a haystack. Your Oz fixed deposit and bank shares strategy looks like a winner, and probably affords you the ability to sleep well at night! 

 

[4MyEgo]

39 minutes ago, DrDave said:

My comments about the fixed deposits were relative to Thai banks, assuming the OP's friend wanted to bring his newly found 16 million baht with him to Thailand. As you indicated, you can do a lot better these days with deposits in other countries. The point I wanted to make (but didn't make clearly) was that while he could start off with an extra 53,000 baht/month, that will decrease over time as his principal gets consumed - not the situation most people want to be in looking forward.

I've shifted my goals from capital appreciation to capital conservation and income, so I've been spending a lot of time recently researching places to park money with good returns but minimal risk. As we all know, there's no big reward without risk. The fixed deposit rate of 3.05% you mention looks to be very good compared to all of the equities I've been looking at. At this point, I'm not interested in capital appreciation, so a guaranteed 3.05% with virtually zero risk looks like a very choice to me.

Another poster referenced a number of ETFs and REITs that have worked out well for him. Over the past 3-4 years, some of these have lost 30% or so of their value, but things seem to have stabilized over the past year. Some of these might be worth a look as they can earn 4-11%, with varying degrees of volatility. Those with low volatility are obviously at the lower end of the return scale: 4-5%, but for me, these are more appropriate. Finding a good investment with low volatility, a decent rate of return, and moderate leverage (important with rising interest rates) is like finding a needle in a haystack. Your Oz fixed deposit and bank shares strategy looks like a winner, and probably affords you the ability to sleep well at night! 

 

 

Thanks for the check up Doc, I feel much better now.

 

I totally understood what you meant the 1st time around, the lower the risk, the lower the return, that has always been my motto, (only invest as much as your prepared to lose), sure without risk there is minimal gain, but at least the money is there in the morning.

[Scotwight]

51 minutes ago, DrDave said:

My comments about the fixed deposits were relative to Thai banks, assuming the OP's friend wanted to bring his newly found 16 million baht with him to Thailand. As you indicated, you can do a lot better these days with deposits in other countries. The point I wanted to make (but didn't make clearly) was that while he could start off with an extra 53,000 baht/month, that will decrease over time as his principal gets consumed - not the situation most people want to be in looking forward.

I've shifted my goals from capital appreciation to capital conservation and income, so I've been spending a lot of time recently researching places to park money with good returns but minimal risk. As we all know, there's no big reward without risk. The fixed deposit rate of 3.05% you mention looks to be very good compared to all of the equities I've been looking at. At this point, I'm not interested in capital appreciation, so a guaranteed 3.05% with virtually zero risk looks like a very choice to me.

Another poster referenced a number of ETFs and REITs that have worked out well for him. Over the past 3-4 years, some of these have lost 30% or so of their value, but things seem to have stabilized over the past year. Some of these might be worth a look as they can earn 4-11%, with varying degrees of volatility. Those with low volatility are obviously at the lower end of the return scale: 4-5%, but for me, these are more appropriate. Finding a good investment with low volatility, a decent rate of return, and moderate leverage (important with rising interest rates) is like finding a needle in a haystack. Your Oz fixed deposit and bank shares strategy looks like a winner, and probably affords you the ability to sleep well at night! 

 

30 baht to 24 baht range Aussie dollar in the last two years.  Thats 300 baht or 240 baht on a hundred dollars how does that work out for interest.  

 

Edited August 22, 2016 by Scotwight

[returnofthailand]

I could spend 60k a month to but I spend only 8k baht.
I live in a high rise building, lot of air, my rent cost 4k a month. rest is for food. I try to spend more but I can not. at the end, my stomach is full, I feel good and clean.

I should do something wrong . how is it possible to have 60k and spend only 8k? I can not understand it myself.

I calculated 3 times, and it seems correct.
room 4k
food, travel, dentist, hair cut, fuel= 4k

total 8k.

4 +4=8 right?
normally I should spend 60k.

so tell me where is the mistake.?

[DrDave]

1 hour ago, Scotwight said:

30 baht to 24 baht range Aussie dollar in the last two years.  Thats 300 baht or 240 baht on a hundred dollars how does that work out for interest.  

 

... and today, almost 27.

There are several  factors to consider:

1) His money is already in Oz

2) What will the exchange rate be next year, in 5 years, in 10 years?

3) What interest rates will Australian banks be offering next year, in 5 years, in 10 years?

4) What interest rates will Thai banks be offering next year, in 5 years, in 10 years?

5) What if he deposits the bulk of his savings in a Thai bank, and then later needs to repatriate his funds or move them to another country due to unforeseen circumstances?

 

I don't think any of us can answer numbers 2, 3 and 4 with any degree of certainty.  Don't underestimate the importance of #5 - moving a large amount of money out of Thailand should the need arise, will be very difficult.

 

[Scotwight]

3 hours ago, DrDave said:

... and today, almost 27.

There are several  factors to consider:

1) His money is already in Oz

2) What will the exchange rate be next year, in 5 years, in 10 years?

3) What interest rates will Australian banks be offering next year, in 5 years, in 10 years?

4) What interest rates will Thai banks be offering next year, in 5 years, in 10 years?

5) What if he deposits the bulk of his savings in a Thai bank, and then later needs to repatriate his funds or move them to another country due to unforeseen circumstances?

 

I don't think any of us can answer numbers 2, 3 and 4 with any degree of certainty.  Don't underestimate the importance of #5 - moving a large amount of money out of Thailand should the need arise, will be very difficult.

 

If you have moved the money into Thailand why would it be difficult to move it out?  

 

The point is a person living in Thailand would be foolish to put money in an Aussie bank considering the fluctuations of the Aussie dollar.  That is why the savings rates are higher in Australia.  You think the banks give you money for nothing? Rates go up if there is risk.

 

USA rates are lower because the risk is lower.  I hope this is not news to anyone.  

 

PS if you want to live in Australia - live in Australia.  If you want to live in Thailand - live in Thailand.  If you want to live in both places do that.  

 

The results will be obvious.  

 

What would the real rate of return have been if you put $300 dollars in an Aussie bank two years ago and transferred it this year to Thailand?  What would the real rate of return have been if your put $300 into a Thai bank two years ago and took it out this year?  300 x 1.5% or 260 x 3%?  Is everyone sleeping OK?  (excuse the rough numbers I think you get my drift)

 

 

Edited August 22, 2016 by Scotwight

[DrDave]

9 hours ago, Scotwight said:

If you have moved the money into Thailand why would it be difficult to move it out?  

 

The point is a person living in Thailand would be foolish to put money in an Aussie bank considering the fluctuations of the Aussie dollar.  That is why the savings rates are higher in Australia.  You think the banks give you money for nothing? Rates go up if there is risk.

 

USA rates are lower because the risk is lower.  I hope this is not news to anyone.  

 

PS if you want to live in Australia - live in Australia.  If you want to live in Thailand - live in Thailand.  If you want to live in both places do that.  

 

The results will be obvious.  

 

What would the real rate of return have been if you put $300 dollars in an Aussie bank two years ago and transferred it this year to Thailand?  What would the real rate of return have been if your put $300 into a Thai bank two years ago and took it out this year?  300 x 1.5% or 260 x 3%?  Is everyone sleeping OK?  (excuse the rough numbers I think you get my drift)

 

 

If you think that it's easy to move a significant amount of money out of Thailand, then you need to do a little research. Since I was responding to 4MyEgo's post, we're talking about significant amounts of savings - not chump change. Just look through the numerous threads here on TVF regarding outbound transfers. Or better yet, walk into your local Thai bank and tell them you'd like to transfer a couple of million baht to your account outside of Thailand and see what kind of reaction you get.

 

The BOT has developed a set of regulations regarding outbound transfers that must be followed by all Thai banks. In summary,  foreigners must either have a work permit and may only repatriate salary paid in Thailand, or they must have a Foreign Exchange (formerly known as TorTor3) form showing a foreign inbound transaction covering the amount they wish to transfer out. These Foreign Exchange forms are issued only for a very limited number of transaction types. Most commonly, for the purchase of a condominium and with a minimum value of 20K USD per transfer. They are not issued for arbitrary inbound transfers, for example, people wanting to transfer their savings from their home country to a Thai bank.  

 

The regulations are strict for Thai citizens as well. The purpose of the outbound transfer must fall into a narrow set of categories such as education expenses for children living abroad, family support, living expenses for Thai expats, payment of foreign invoices, and so on. For living expenses, the Thai citizen must prove that he has the legal right to live in the country to which the transfer is going.

 

While many people think that the BOT implemented these regulations to stem the flow of money out of the country, I think another reason is to make it difficult to dodge taxes that may be due on the money being transferred. Unfortunately, in the process, many legitimate transfers of tax-exempt funds (like savings after tax on interest has been automatically withheld) will be prohibited, unless they're transferred out a little at a time. Many have suggested that some banks are willing to execute outbound transfers under a million baht, believing that it won't raise a red flag at the BOT. 

 

But we're not talking about a million baht here. We're talking about a situation in which someone has moved their life savings to a Thai bank, and then for whatever reason in the future, needs to move that money back to their home country or elsewhere.

[Scotwight]

1 hour ago, DrDave said:

If you think that it's easy to move a significant amount of money out of Thailand, then you need to do a little research. Since I was responding to 4MyEgo's post, we're talking about significant amounts of savings - not chump change. Just look through the numerous threads here on TVF regarding outbound transfers. Or better yet, walk into your local Thai bank and tell them you'd like to transfer a couple of million baht to your account outside of Thailand and see what kind of reaction you get.

 

The BOT has developed a set of regulations regarding outbound transfers that must be followed by all Thai banks. In summary,  foreigners must either have a work permit and may only repatriate salary paid in Thailand, or they must have a Foreign Exchange (formerly known as TorTor3) form showing a foreign inbound transaction covering the amount they wish to transfer out. These Foreign Exchange forms are issued only for a very limited number of transaction types. Most commonly, for the purchase of a condominium and with a minimum value of 20K USD per transfer. They are not issued for arbitrary inbound transfers, for example, people wanting to transfer their savings from their home country to a Thai bank.  

 

The regulations are strict for Thai citizens as well. The purpose of the outbound transfer must fall into a narrow set of categories such as education expenses for children living abroad, family support, living expenses for Thai expats, payment of foreign invoices, and so on. For living expenses, the Thai citizen must prove that he has the legal right to live in the country to which the transfer is going.

 

While many people think that the BOT implemented these regulations to stem the flow of money out of the country, I think another reason is to make it difficult to dodge taxes that may be due on the money being transferred. Unfortunately, in the process, many legitimate transfers of tax-exempt funds (like savings after tax on interest has been automatically withheld) will be prohibited, unless they're transferred out a little at a time. Many have suggested that some banks are willing to execute outbound transfers under a million baht, believing that it won't raise a red flag at the BOT. 

 

But we're not talking about a million baht here. We're talking about a situation in which someone has moved their life savings to a Thai bank, and then for whatever reason in the future, needs to move that money back to their home country or elsewhere.

The OP would have no trouble transferring money out that he had transferred in - like I said and you quoted.  I've never heard of a problem when it can be shown where and when the money came from (outside of Thailand) and my banker confirmed that.  I'd also investigate stock and bond purchases in Thailand and a brokerage account which I don't think you would have any problem obtaining.  I transfer money out every year and have never had a problem and I transfer a million baht in to Thailand every year.  

 

If you have any factual information that it is a problem to transfer a million baht out of Thailand that you have transferred in I'd like to see it.  I don't think you need a form just a Thai bank book showing the transfer in.  I'll ask my banker the next time I see him if anything has changed but I'm not aware of any changes.  

 

But not really my point.  My point was if you put money in an Aussie bank two years ago you got screwed by the exchange rate and that is always a possibility if you bank in a different currency than you live with.  

Edited August 23, 2016 by Scotwight

[pauleddy]

DrDavid has framed my theory about transfers out with much more coherence than I could muster when I posted in this thread about three weeks ago.

Apart from chump change, or maybe a Mill, I would never leave larger sums in any Thai banks. You could well find yourself unable to get it out in five years when you want to head for home...

[Scotwight]

1 minute ago, pauleddy said:

DrDavid has framed my theory about transfers out with much more coherence than I could muster when I posted in this thread about three weeks ago.

Apart from chump change, or maybe a Mill, I would never leave larger sums in any Thai banks. You could well find yourself unable to get it out in five years when you want to head for home...

Or you could find your home currency crashing if not in a Thai bank.  Tell me how much you would have lost leaving your money in a British or Aussie bank for the last two years and spending it in Thailand?

[Stevemercer]

When I retired to Thailand, a few years ago, the Thai baht was nudging 30 to the Australian dollar. Over the last few months it has been around 25 Baht. That means my income from Australia has depreciated nearly 10%.

 

It's hard to predict how exchange rates will go and to factor this into your estimates of returns. As others have suggested many times, if you intend to live in Thailand it is probably safest to split your assets and capital 50/50 in Thailand and your home country. If you plan for the long term, things like stock market prices and exchange rates tend to even out.

[Naam]

23 hours ago, returnofthailand said:

I could spend 60k a month to but I spend only 8k baht.
I live in a high rise building, lot of air, my rent cost 4k a month. rest is for food. I try to spend more but I can not. at the end, my stomach is full, I feel good and clean.

I should do something wrong . how is it possible to have 60k and spend only 8k? I can not understand it myself.

I calculated 3 times, and it seems correct.
room 4k
food, travel, dentist, hair cut, fuel= 4k

total 8k.

4 +4=8 right?
normally I should spend 60k.

so tell me where is the mistake.?


 

 

 

 

 

no mistake! you are saving a bundle by travelling business instead of first class, eating grain-fed Angus steak imported from Australia instead of Russian caviar, French paté de foie gras and live in a penthouse saving on the salary for a gardener.

[Naam]

10 hours ago, DrDave said:

or they must have a Foreign Exchange (formerly known as TorTor3) form showing a foreign inbound transaction covering the amount they wish to transfer out. These Foreign Exchange forms are issued only for a very limited number of transaction types. Most commonly, for the purchase of a condominium and with a minimum value of 20K USD per transfer. They are not issued for arbitrary inbound transfers, for example, people wanting to transfer their savings from their home country to a Thai bank.  

 

incorrect information! the tor tor sam is issued on demand for any transfer. it is even possible to have it issued at a much later stage. 

[DrDave]

19 minutes ago, Naam said:

 

incorrect information! the tor tor sam is issued on demand for any transfer. it is even possible to have it issued at a much later stage. 

I'm going to check on this with my local bank. I transferred in over 1 million baht in a single transaction less than than 2 years ago to buy a car. We'll see if they'll issue an FET form for that transaction.  (The tor tor 3 is obsolete and has been replaced by the Foreign Exchange Transaction form).

I'd be very surprised if they'd issue an FET form for just any inbound FX deposit, as it seems to me that they would be inviting tax evasion by foreigners on unreported income generated in Thailand, but sent overseas. 

[alofthailand]

On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 6:31 AM, mcfish said:

on nut? meh the whole point of moving to thailand is to bump your lifestle up not down. 30k is still cheapest to get in upmarket areas or at least heavy expat areas lower suk

I have over 100 Sq metre for 20k a month in a very nice area.

[chiang mai]

26 minutes ago, DrDave said:

I'm going to check on this with my local bank. I transferred in over 1 million baht in a single transaction less than than 2 years ago to buy a car. We'll see if they'll issue an FET form for that transaction.  (The tor tor 3 is obsolete and has been replaced by the Foreign Exchange Transaction form).

I'd be very surprised if they'd issue an FET form for just any inbound FX deposit, as it seems to me that they would be inviting tax evasion by foreigners on unreported income generated in Thailand, but sent overseas. 

 

An FET is issued for every inbound forex transaction, the purpose of the transaction s however key. In the case of your million for a car, that amount has now reduced to a more reasonable 1mill. minus what, 30%, 40%? That being the case you could reasonably be expected to repatriate 60% of the 1 mill.

 

As for inviting tax evasion et al the reason for the transfer is key, if you said the money was for living expenses it must now have been spent, hence, it can't be repatriated. If you said the money was to buy property, fine, now show the paperwork where you sold the property, paid tax on the profit and in which case, the balance can be repatriated. Are you strating to get the picture?

 

[Naam]

35 minutes ago, DrDave said:

(The tor tor 3 is obsolete and has been replaced by the Foreign Exchange Transaction form).

since years i request with every transfer a "tor tor sam" and get a one-page document issued stating the amount which i keep in my safe. once my bank abroad forgot to mention "tt3" and i got it issued nearly a year later without any problems (Siam Commercial). all transfers i make contain the remark "personal expenses". 

[Naam]

13 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

As for inviting tax evasion et al the reason for the transfer is key, if you said the money was for living expenses it must now have been spent, hence, it can't be repatriated.

says who?

[Naam]

47 minutes ago, DrDave said:

I'd be very surprised if they'd issue an FET form for just any inbound FX deposit, as it seems to me that they would be inviting tax evasion by foreigners on unreported income generated in Thailand, but sent overseas. 

only a brain-amputated person would transfer money to Thailand on which he has evaded taxes, bunkered it safely offshore and then transfer it out of Thailand again.

 

[chiang mai]

55 minutes ago, Naam said:

says who?

 

Says UOB, and it make sense. If your pattern of transfers is to serve your living expenses each year, it would be unreasonable to ask to repatriate all those expenses, for example, at the end of say five years, that picture suggests the person has unexplained income.

[Peterw42]

There are threads about exporting money every couple of months, isnt it the case of $50k US each transfer goes under the radar.

Or wear a lot of gold jewelery when leaving, lol

[Naam]

8 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

Says UOB, and it make sense. If your pattern of transfers is to serve your living expenses each year, it would be unreasonable to ask to repatriate all those expenses, for example, at the end of say five years, that picture suggests the person has unexplained income.

 

"all those expenses" would be of course unreasonable but if you have planned to buy or perhaps bought an expensive item (e.g. a car) which cost a multiple of your average living expenses there is no problem to re-transfer the amount if that wasn't used or the amount for which the car was sold. 

 

[oxo1947]

Quote

If he has 16 mil to retire on I would suggest he buys 4 or 5 properties.  I did a similar thing 11 years ago and have a return on investment of 12%, which knocks the hell out of any investment/bank investment.  But he needs to know what he is doing and do a business plan, find a reputable construction company and know how to run his properties.  This gives me a little bit of work to do daily in managing the estate and running the bookings.  There are several good international websites for holiday rentals that would keep him pretty full throughout the year.  Plus, if he is getting it right, he will start to accumulate returning business - we are now on about 60% returning business per annum.  He may not achieve 12% at the off, but over the years he can creep his prices up, assuming his customers like what he provides, but should look at a minimum of 8% ROI.  Remember the three key phrases: Location, Location, Location.

.

Wow your certainly nor short on answers (advice) are you......

I have  been in Vietnam for the last 10 days----so I could not be bothered to wade through all of the 17 + pages, but the above post caught my eye because its what I have been doing--but only for the last 3 years. Location--Location yes---but where, I live in one of the fastest growing areas in Thailand (according to Wikipedia)--

Quote

Isan has been transformed from one of the poorest regions into Thailand's fastest growing economy. The Industry Ministry has supported industrial zones in Khon Kaen and Udon Thani.^[5] private sector's plans to invest in setting up industrial estates in provinces has shown major progress.^[6]  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isan

There is certainly money to be made ----but of course you have to make sure you are properly covered--legal wise. I live in Udon Thani --- I looked at 3,  2 storey high town-houses yesterday in the middle of the city--- all on 1 title just over 3 million for the lot. They charge about 6-7K a month for just a room anywhere near the city ----so being very-very conservative these must be able get 8-9K a month......9,000 x 3 x 12 = B-324,000, about 9-10% ---- we turned it down as a better deal was around.

I lived in Pataya for 8 years before moving up here, loved the place--had a ball, great memories, would never knock it---but I don't think I would invest there at the moment (but things do change) everything I need is up here.

If your friend feels he would be bored --as I first thought when it was put to me....just do a visit.

 

Udon Thani is without any doubt the biggest sexual playground

for Farangs in Isaan.

It just has something for everyone with two big complexes

packed with beer bars, several “ordinary” bars, karaoke places

, massage shops, a couple of nightclubs and a night market

. Most of these Farang oriented nightlife spots are conveniently

located within walking distance in the center of town near

Central Plaza shopping mall.

Another great thing about the nightlife in Udon Thani

is that the supply of girls by far always outnumbers the

demand. Even in high season....http://www.thailandredcat.com/nightlife-and-thai-girls-in-udon-thani/

 

Although things in UT are cheaper you can go through a lot of money in Thailand quite quickly---especially if you decide that partying for the first year or so (as I did) is the way to start retirement.

 

Anyway good luck seems like he has about 3 days reading to do ---to get through this thread..........