what to do with my condo in pattaya

[trogers]

5 minutes ago, Gary A said:

 

If you have the condos in a company name and hold the chanotes, can you sell to a farang in his name without him having to buy the company?

 

Only if the foreign quota is not exceeded as a result.

[Gary A]

4 minutes ago, trogers said:

 

Only if the foreign quota is not exceeded as a result.

 

If they are in the foreign quota, why would anyone want to be taxed through a company owning them?

[balo]

If this is Matrix you have a problem . 

 

I bought a unit in Paradise Park,  soi watboon , and it took me forever to get the chanote which is so important if you want to sell.  Almost one year after completion I had the title deed in my hand.   Without the chanote nobody wants to buy , you can probably make an agreement with Matrix  , but the buyer must be aware of all the documents that has not been signed yet and they need to take the responsibility away from you over to the new owner.

You have to contact a lawyer to sort it out. 

 

 

[Asiantravel]

4 hours ago, trogers said:

 

I suspect half of that figure are in abandoned projects...launched but with no construction activities.

 

 

Quote

Approximately 6,675 units were completed and registered in 2015, the most in the history of the Pattaya condominium market, bringing the total in Pattaya to around 65,430 units as of the end of 2015. More than 30,000 units are still under construction and scheduled to be completed in 2016.

 

Quote

Demand in the Pattaya condominium market has still not recovered

 

 

http://www.retalkasia.com/blog/surachet-kongcheep-colliers-international-thailand/research-forecast-report-pattaya-city-condo

 

http://www.colliers.com/-/media/files/apac/thailand/market-reports/pattaya 2h 2015-eng.pdf

Edited August 27, 2016 by Asiantravel

[Asiantravel]

3 hours ago, trogers said:

 

Properties in choice locations of cities are still appreciating while those in the suburbs are seeing stagnant or falling values, a consequence of falling birth rates.

 

 

 

it doesn't make any sense to me that properties will continue to go up in value when you look around and only see central banks all over the world furiously trying to defeat deflationary forces and with institutions like the Bank of International Settlements  now warning   the credit binge that we have enjoyed for decades is now over

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/03/04/debtor-days-are-over-as-bis-calls-time-on-world-credit-binge/

[trogers]

1 hour ago, Asiantravel said:

 

it doesn't make any sense to me that properties will continue to go up in value when you look around and only see central banks all over the world furiously trying to defeat deflationary forces and with institutions like the Bank of International Settlements  now warning   the credit binge that we have enjoyed for decades is now over

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/03/04/debtor-days-are-over-as-bis-calls-time-on-world-credit-binge/

 

Location, location, and location.

 

Some locations are more prized than others...

[kingstonkid]

On 8/26/2016 at 2:45 PM, trogers said:

 

Problem in a surplus situation is that the net rental income after cost and vacancy period is not sufficient to cover the interest on the mortgage, nor compensate for depreciation.

 

That is correct but if I am readin the op correctly he at this time has no mortgage.  Therefore he could try to get one for an amount that would still allow him to do what he needs and keep the payments low and easily managed.

[blackcab]

11 hours ago, Gary A said:

 

If you have the condos in a company name and hold the chanotes, can you sell to a farang in his name without him having to buy the company?

 

Yes. The company simply sells an asset. In this scenario the company owner would probably be left with an empty company, but that's their problem.

 

The usual stipulations would still apply: the foreigner would need to import foreign currency, the unit would need to be debt free and there would have to be sufficient space within the 49% rule to enable to transaction to proceed. 

[smotherb]

On 8/25/2016 at 7:49 PM, Seizetheday said:

 

Because he doesn't have a clue what he is writing.

 

Maybe not, but he may simply be apprehensive of the entire situation because of little legal recourse, shady operatives, and all the tales of woe. I have worked and lived in SEA for almost 50 years. I have known literally hundreds of farangs who have "bought" property in Thailand and the PI.  Except for the few who married locals, had children, and stayed in a good relationship; the number of happy "investors" is slight.

[Asiantravel]

19 hours ago, trogers said:

 

Location, location, and location.

 

Some locations are more prized than others...

 

Well I can't think of even one " prized " location in Pattaya

plus there are things happening now around the world regarding real estate markets that have never happened before.................................

 

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/08/12/aspen-real-estate-in-a-first-ever-sustained-nosedive/

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-property-hamptons-idUSKCN0ZY2MM

 

[Gary A]

If you have purchased a liveable sized condo, meaning it has a separate bedroom, ample storage and room for a washing machine. It makes no difference whether the value goes up or down, especially if you are living in it. As I posted previously,  if you bought it to flip or as an investment, you are likely to get hurt financially. If you are in a position where you badly need the money quickly, you are likely to take a severe beating.

[trogers]

10 hours ago, Asiantravel said:

 

Well I can't think of even one " prized " location in Pattaya

plus there are things happening now around the world regarding real estate markets that have never happened before.................................

 

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/08/12/aspen-real-estate-in-a-first-ever-sustained-nosedive/

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-property-hamptons-idUSKCN0ZY2MM

 

 

Never happened before because the spikes of the past two years are running out of bank credit that sprung from the QE...

 

Did quantitative easing on such a scale happened before in the US?

Edited August 28, 2016 by trogers

[KittenKong]

On 27/08/2016 at 7:15 PM, kingstonkid said:

That is correct but if I am readin the op correctly he at this time has no mortgage.  Therefore he could try to get one for an amount that would still allow him to do what he needs and keep the payments low and easily managed.

 

The OP has paid out the full purchase price but at the moment he owns nothing that any bank would lend money on. Only when he gets the chanote (and pays all the remaining fees) will he have something that could be mortgaged, and even then the unit will be in company name and not his own which probably makes getting a mortgage even less likely.

[Michael8511]

On August 26, 2016 at 7:36 PM, jacko45k said:

Despite the fact you seem happy I doubt I would like to live next door to a condo that is accepting short term rentals with 10 people on holiday in a small studio. One reason condos are not selling perhaps, they were intended for long term residents.

I agree with you, and that's the reason I think buying a condo for investment is not a good idea. The condo association should also have some rules that the realtors have to follow of max occupancy. Russians seems to rent a condo for multiple families and I don't think the owners know how many people stay in their place, we told this owner now when she came with new bed and she said it was only to be rented to max 1 family with kids. And the security deposit should have gone to the broken bed if the realtor had been alert.

[Asiantravel]

Based on what is happening within the region the outlook doesn't look good at all good for the Pattaya condominium market.

Pattaya is only a holiday town so developers are aiming at quite a small group of potential  purchasers. Whereas Phnom Penh is a capital city where people also need to live for work. In Phnom Penh with an inventory of around only 11,000 condominiums (as opposed to an estimated 30,000 condominiums  in Pattaya ) yesterday they suddenly raised their arms  and declared they have a real estate bubble problem ! 

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/business/developer-puts-condo-project-bay-hold-supply-glut-looms?utm_source=The+Phnom+Penh+Post+News+Brief&utm_campaign=c855650c2b-atphga&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_53e48d7faf-c855650c2b-286286713 

[trogers]

3 hours ago, Asiantravel said:

Based on what is happening within the region the outlook doesn't look good at all good for the Pattaya condominium market.

Pattaya is only a holiday town so developers are aiming at quite a small group of potential  purchasers. Whereas Phnom Penh is a capital city where people also need to live for work. In Phnom Penh with an inventory of around only 11,000 condominiums (as opposed to an estimated 30,000 condominiums  in Pattaya ) yesterday they suddenly raised their arms  and declared they have a real estate bubble problem ! 

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/business/developer-puts-condo-project-bay-hold-supply-glut-looms?utm_source=The+Phnom+Penh+Post+News+Brief&utm_campaign=c855650c2b-atphga&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_53e48d7faf-c855650c2b-286286713 

 

Different property rights in Cambodia. What kind of rights do foreign buyers have compared to the freehold ownership in Thailand?

[Asiantravel]

33 minutes ago, trogers said:

 

Different property rights in Cambodia. What kind of rights do foreign buyers have compared to the freehold ownership in Thailand?

 

" Different property rights in Cambodia " ?

 

" Now, let’s look at real estate in Thailand and Cambodia. From a legal perspective, things are similar in these two countries. Foreigners can own condominium units on a freehold basis, in their own name, but are unable to own actual land, including agricultural land."

 

http://nomadcapitalist.com/2015/01/29/real-estate-southeast-asia-good-investment/

[trogers]

4 hours ago, Asiantravel said:

 

" Different property rights in Cambodia " ?

 

" Now, let’s look at real estate in Thailand and Cambodia. From a legal perspective, things are similar in these two countries. Foreigners can own condominium units on a freehold basis, in their own name, but are unable to own actual land, including agricultural land."

 

http://nomadcapitalist.com/2015/01/29/real-estate-southeast-asia-good-investment/

 

My understanding is that freehold titled land ownership in Cambodia is only around 10%.

 

That means one has to be very careful of what type of land ownership one would be acquiring.

[djlest]

this is interesting but dont be so quick to put pattaya to sleep as the market has slowed largely due to the drop in Russian visitors, EU and increase in Chinese...

Its all about location, one only has to check these 2 condos that are still under development in Patts, one is almost complete and situated basically on the beach and the entire condo sold our FAST! the other is in a quiet part of jomtien but famed to become the biggest project patts has ever seen, but still the developer struggles to sell them and is WAY behind finishing it as its already 1 year + late!!!

Check out the historical price date

 

https://www.hipflat.co.th/en/pattaya/condo/the-palm

 

https://www.hipflat.co.th/en/pattaya/condo/laguna-beach-resort-3-the-maldives

 

Again its location location,  Bangkok 12 years ago had condos left right and center that couldnt sell... just look at the place now where condos are going for 30 million and low starting prices of only 15 million is the norm for a shoebox in a 3rd world city. granted its the city for not just tourists and professionals etc.

But Patts definitely has possibilities, you just have to be savvy...

I rent a house out in Patts every year for staff parties and its about 15,000 a night... the company i rent from is making tons from luxury houses for short term rentals.

[newnative]

Good points, Djlest.  It's always location, location, location--and supply and demand.  Not enough buyers want to live in the middle of nowhere with no seaview, hence the struggle to find buyers for some of these huge 'theme park' developments.

[Peterw42]

13 minutes ago, djlest said:

this is interesting but dont be so quick to put pattaya to sleep as the market has slowed largely due to the drop in Russian visitors, EU and increase in Chinese...

Its all about location, one only has to check these 2 condos that are still under development in Patts, one is almost complete and situated basically on the beach and the entire condo sold our FAST! the other is in a quiet part of jomtien but famed to become the biggest project patts has ever seen, but still the developer struggles to sell them and is WAY behind finishing it as its already 1 year + late!!!

Check out the historical price date

 

https://www.hipflat.co.th/en/pattaya/condo/the-palm

 

https://www.hipflat.co.th/en/pattaya/condo/laguna-beach-resort-3-the-maldives

 

Again its location location,  Bangkok 12 years ago had condos left right and center that couldnt sell... just look at the place now where condos are going for 30 million and low starting prices of only 15 million is the norm for a shoebox in a 3rd world city. granted its the city for not just tourists and professionals etc.

But Patts definitely has possibilities, you just have to be savvy...

I rent a house out in Patts every year for staff parties and its about 15,000 a night... the company i rent from is making tons from luxury houses for short term rentals.

 

There is a lot of smoke and mirrors when it comes to developers saying buildings are finished, 100% sold etc. At a certain point the developer will say the building is finished, they can then get final payment off people who brought of the plan. At a certain point the developer say 100% sold, in reality it just means they stop selling off the plan and via the onsite sales office. The developer sells remaining stock via agents etc. They can sell remaining stock one at a time to create a false supply.

Hipflat has some great data but you need to remember its "asking price" and does not reflect the actual selling price. Or if there are any sales. Many of those listings that make up the Hipflat data, are in fact developer stock, people trying to onsell the contract (no chanote). 

 

I am not familiar with the Palm, but it wouldn't surprise me if it is some very clever marketing and the developer controlling the supply and demand.

 

 

[Anthony5]

18 minutes ago, djlest said:

this is interesting but dont be so quick to put pattaya to sleep as the market has slowed largely due to the drop in Russian visitors, EU and increase in Chinese...

Its all about location, one only has to check these 2 condos that are still under development in Patts, one is almost complete and situated basically on the beach and the entire condo sold our FAST! the other is in a quiet part of jomtien but famed to become the biggest project patts has ever seen, but still the developer struggles to sell them and is WAY behind finishing it as its already 1 year + late!!!

Check out the historical price date

 

https://www.hipflat.co.th/en/pattaya/condo/the-palm

 

https://www.hipflat.co.th/en/pattaya/condo/laguna-beach-resort-3-the-maldives

 

Again its location location,  Bangkok 12 years ago had condos left right and center that couldnt sell... just look at the place now where condos are going for 30 million and low starting prices of only 15 million is the norm for a shoebox in a 3rd world city. granted its the city for not just tourists and professionals etc.

But Patts definitely has possibilities, you just have to be savvy...

I rent a house out in Patts every year for staff parties and its about 15,000 a night... the company i rent from is making tons from luxury houses for short term rentals.

 

So the Palm is almost finished, while Hipflat says it finished in 2014? I guess that means it's 2 years overdue.

 

Sold out quickly, which I think will mean the foreign part which consists of 266 units, and of which 102 units are up for resale. And that is only the ones that are listed with an agency that is listed with Hipflat.

 

The other one, Maldives, will in my opinion never be finished same as the numerous other projects in the same area that are about a DECADE late in completion.

 

Take a look at Centara Avenue, which has one of the best locations for rental purposes possible, and which is almost completed with 99% of the Thai allocation unsold and virtually 99% of the foreign allocation up for resale.

 

Everything that has been sold in Pattaya in the past 3-4 years was to investors, who hope to flip before they have to cough up the whole sum on completion. They're are in for a cold shower.

[newnative]

A slight correction, if I may.  There are not 102 different units listed for sale on Hipflat with regard to The Palm, and any other condo developments listed on Hipflat.   Some are the same units listed by different agents.

[Anthony5]

2 minutes ago, newnative said:

A slight correction, if I may.  There are not 102 different units listed for sale on Hipflat with regard to The Palm, and any other condo developments listed on Hipflat.   Some are the same units listed by different agents.

 

How is centric sea going, after being finished for almost a year now? Most part of the buildings still have their windows covered with newspapers? lol

[newnative]

Actually the majority of the windows have curtains now in Building A and B.  Lowrise Building C with no seaviews is a tougher sell. 

[KittenKong]

Hipflat is certainly interesting reading, but it contains some of the most gross errors I have ever seen on a website. Everything on it has to be taken with a pinch of salt, and double-checked for nonsense.

 

Anyone fancy a condo for five dollars a year?

 

https://www.hipflat.co.th/en/for-rent-1-bed-condo-in-ratchathewi-bangkok-thailand/ls/th-fbazanjf

[djlest]

yes totally agree, Hipflat whilst its a great idea at aggregating data to give at least some guidance on the market, it is just an estimate at that. And by Thai property market standards probably quite an over inflated one. asking price only or perhaps the Agents asking price which has their 10% cut added on to it.

With regards to developers saying units are sold out, lets not forget many develeloper will purchase one building block for themselves for short term rentals or serviced apartments, then when your finished condo is finally finished and your ready to rent it out for 5% - suddenly you see the same units or bigger in your building being rented out for half the price with free maid cleaning daily... as always, dont invest what you cant afford to lose...

Offplan is a risky business...

Id be interested to see how Heights holdings are doing currently, as one of the biggest and supposedly highest quality developers in Patts. They certainly have a lot of projects in the mix at the moment. Has anyone purchased one of the new theme condos or perhaps have any experience with the build quality? the Maldives is also one of theirs

[lkn]

On 9/1/2016 at 3:09 AM, djlest said:

[…] low starting prices of only 15 million is the norm for a shoebox in a 3rd world city. granted its the city for not just tourists and professionals etc.

 

What do you mean by 3rd world city? I assume you are not referring to the cold war definition of a non-aligned country.

 

If you are implying non-developed or poor country then I think this is irrelevant because it would have little impact on the lifestyle of anyone with money, as it’s not like there is a lack of quality goods, international brands, good dining options, entertainment, or that you have to suffer regular power outages, lack of running water, etc.

 

There are of course some things where it shows that the country is less developed, for example infrastructure and waste management, but in general it’s not like there are things you have to give up when choosing to live in Bangkok, which would be what makes the price go down, as too many people would be unwilling to live in a place where things they take for granted are unavailable.

 

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, lkn said:

 

What do you mean by 3rd world city? I assume you are not referring to the cold war definition of a non-aligned country.

 

If you are implying non-developed or poor country then I think this is irrelevant because it would have little impact on the lifestyle of anyone with money, as it’s not like there is a lack of quality goods, international brands, good dining options, entertainment, or that you have to suffer regular power outages, lack of running water, etc.

 

I would say that Pattaya (and Thailand in general) has a severe lack of quality goods at sensible prices, unless you are thinking of designer clothing and similar pointless nonsense. I would give my right arm to be able to order things online from Amazon here and pay UK prices, or indeed have the choice of foodstuffs here that I would get in any supermarket in any small UK town. Infrastructure in Pattaya is OK though the traffic is awful as are most of the pavements/side-walks. Dining options are OK also, though Bangkok is better and often cheaper for eating out at least for some types of food.

[Deepinthailand]

8 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

I would say that Pattaya (and Thailand in general) has a severe lack of quality goods at sensible prices, unless you are thinking of designer clothing and similar pointless nonsense. I would give my right arm to be able to order things online from Amazon here and pay UK prices, or indeed have the choice of foodstuffs here that I would get in any supermarket in any small UK town. Infrastructure in Pattaya is OK though the traffic is awful as are most of the pavements/side-walks. Dining options are OK also, though Bangkok is better and often cheaper for eating out at least for some types of food.

The trick is you are able to buy from amazon at uk prices then pay through the teeth to get them here. As for food and prices try stopping comparing them to UK. Two completely diffrent countries thank god.