Why is there better Thai food in San Francisco than in Pattaya?

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Are you talking about the Southern Thai place in Thong Lor?  What a fantastic restaurant.  We eat there often.  Lovely environment also.  But I don't think prices a bit under 500B are cheap.  I don't think a Thai place that like would survive here in Pattaya.  Plus, the Thais that do come on the weekend mainly want to party down and eat cheap food on the beach!

Yes, that place.

I don't know if that would work or not here.

Nobody has tried.

I would go. Often! 

That is an example of the TYPE of Thai food place that is not all that hard to find in Bangkok, but in my opinion does not even EXIST here.

And it doesn't need to cost the house. That place doesn't.

Really seriously lots of people here are spending a lot more than 500 a head for Thai food here ... but they're not getting that extra special eating experience for that. So I reject that it's only about price.

That's really the core of this thread.

This is Thailand here in a rather large urban beach resort city.

We should have some options for more amazing versions of Thai food here, but we don't. 

Yes, also, I STILL think there are better options for more amazing versions of THAI food in San Francisco (and L.A., etc.) than here in the largest urban beach resort city in THAILAND.

I think that's weird. 

 

As not to confuse people, using a regional Bangkok Thai place as an EXAMPLE of the "more special" Thai eating experience I think we lack here does NOT mean I am only talking about lack of excellent specific REGIONAL restaurants. It's not so much about the region specialty, but the level of quality and passion of the business ... that makes experienced Thai food eaters leave the place and feel: WOW! 

Edited August 26, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Just now digesting a comment before from a San Franciscan commenting on the high pricing of Michelin star Thai place referred to in this thread. He mentioned that a really tasty plate of Thai food was possible in SF for 7 dollars or so so that makes that place super expensive. I don't doubt the budget offerings, even though I haven't lived there for awhile and I do know restaurant price inflation is major since I did.

 

That said, let's look at an example from the Michelin star Thai place ... a really special green curry with rabbit saddle meat and rabbit meatballs for 25 dollars. Sounds like a very high price for any green curry dish, and indeed it is.

 

But consider this ... imagine a main dish with the same ingredient costs with rabbit meat, the same chef skill, and the same Michelin star at a FRENCH restaurant in SF. I imagine people would think 50 dollars not shocking for that. 

 

That's neither here nor there. That's about the global politics of restaurant pricing in the U.S. which really is rather bizarre. I started another thread about that  a while back. The situation is that Americans accept very high prices at quality restaurants for national food types coming from what are considered very successful nations economically ("first world") while largely balking at paying similar high prices for quality foods from nations considered poorer or third world.  So for example French and Japanese very high prices widely accepted, while Thai, Indian, Mexican ("ethnic") very high prices finding massive price resistance. Notice in this model Japanese not considered ethnic. Weird, huh?

 

So in that sense the 25 dollar green curry might be considered a bargain! 

[TaaSaparot]

Presumed Troll comments get deleted but not Troll threads ?

[Jingthing]

Presumed Troll comments get deleted but not Troll threads ?

Wow. If you're referring to this topic if you don't like it all you have to do is not read it.

[LennyW]

14 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Just now digesting a comment before from a San Franciscan commenting on the high pricing of Michelin star Thai place referred to in this thread. He mentioned that a really tasty plate of Thai food was possible in SF for 7 dollars or so so that makes that place super expensive. I don't doubt the budget offerings, even though I haven't lived there for awhile and I do know restaurant price inflation is major since I did.

 

That said, let's look at an example from the Michelin star Thai place ... a really special green curry with rabbit saddle meat and rabbit meatballs for 25 dollars. Sounds like a very high price for any green curry dish, and indeed it is.

 

But consider this ... imagine a main dish with the same ingredient costs with rabbit meat, the same chef skill, and the same Michelin star at a FRENCH restaurant in SF. I imagine people would think 50 dollars not shocking for that. 

 

That's neither here nor there. That's about the global politics of restaurant pricing in the U.S. which really is rather bizarre. I started another thread about that  a while back. The situation is that Americans accept very high prices at quality restaurants for national food types coming from what are considered very successful nations economically ("first world") while largely balking at paying similar high prices for quality foods from nations considered poorer or third world.  So for example French and Japanese very high prices widely accepted, while Thai, Indian, Mexican ("ethnic") very high prices finding massive price resistance. Notice in this model Japanese not considered ethnic. Weird, huh?

 

So in that sense the 25 dollar green curry might be considered a bargain! 

Did not realise that Rabbit meat was in any way considered a Thai dish??

[giddyup]

23 hours ago, giddyup said:

Want to share, name and location of this great place on the Darkside?

Khon Kaen Dave, still waiting to hear the name and location.

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, LennyW said:

Did not realise that Rabbit meat was in any way considered a Thai dish??

I've never seen it in a restaurant here but they've got rabbit here, so ipso facto:

 

http://dinnerdiary.org/2009/10/13/thai-rabbit-curry/

 

I really like their idea of doing rabbit two ways, especially the rabbit meatballs. That's a good example of going the extra mile kind of thing to create something truly memorable that I'm talking about. Of course the flavor of the curry also has to be great or why bother.

 

My all time favorite green curry mentioned before in California also did an unusual meat in the curry that I've yet to see in Thailand. It was spiced minced pork (as you'd get in fried "Angel Wings") stuffed into the world class California squid meat. Not fried. I've see similar treatments of stuffed squid in Thailand presented as a fried platter. It was kind of the signature dish of that restaurant.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Jingthing

[Khon Kaen Dave]

giddyup.

I would love to give you the name and situation of this place,but i fear that it is not wise for me to do so.My wife and i are very well known there and that could mean that our names could be  exposed.The very idea of TV is to maintain anonymity,hence allowing posters to post,more or less what they like without fear of exposure.

I do apologise,

[giddyup]

2 hours ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

giddyup.

I would love to give you the name and situation of this place,but i fear that it is not wise for me to do so.My wife and i are very well known there and that could mean that our names could be  exposed.The very idea of TV is to maintain anonymity,hence allowing posters to post,more or less what they like without fear of exposure.

I do apologise,

Why, are you their only customers? Not sure how naming a restaurant can give away your identity, but your choice, but also a little pointless in recommending it in the first place. I have recommended a few restaurants in Pattaya at different times, can anyone identify me? Send me a PM if you can. Oh, I also said that Mitsubishi NaJomtien gave great service, now you'll definitely know me!

Edited August 27, 2016 by giddyup

[mpyre]

On 8/24/2016 at 2:12 PM, Jingthing said:

 Your comment has zilch to do with the restaurant I referred to in San Francisco. 

But he provides an anecdote related to your topic in a presumed effort to further the discussion. Geez.

[Jingthing]

Just now, mpyre said:

But he provides an anecdote related to your topic in a presumed effort to further the discussion. Geez.

An irrelevant anecdote to anyone that actually digested the meaning of the topic. We've had many threads about how in general Thai food in the west is weak compared to Thai food in Thailand. Nobody is debating that and again that general thing has nothing to do with THIS thread. This thread is about what I think is a fact ... there are some Thai places in the west doing Thai food better than what is available anywhere in PATTAYA. Not all of Thailand. PATTAYA. 

[Rimmer]

An off topic troll post and reply have been removed.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

giddyup

Dont be a fool.Sorry if you got upset that i wouldnt give you the name of the place on the darkside.People have reasons for not wanting to give names of places.I simply posted about the place.But due to your stupid,childish,reply,you certainly aint going to get it now.And no! i dont do pm's either.

And what was the silly 'are you their only customer" remark about?

Surely you wouldnt want to patronize a place that only has one customer??

[giddyup]

2 hours ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

giddyup

Dont be a fool.Sorry if you got upset that i wouldnt give you the name of the place on the darkside.People have reasons for not wanting to give names of places.I simply posted about the place.But due to your stupid,childish,reply,you certainly aint going to get it now.And no! i dont do pm's either.

And what was the silly 'are you their only customer" remark about?

Surely you wouldnt want to patronize a place that only has one customer??

How would naming the place give away your identity? I asked if you were the only customer as that would mean that you were KKD, that would give you away. get it? No worries, there's a thousand places to eat on the Darkside, I don't need to know another. Someone is a fool and it ain't me,

[Ulysses G.]

I wonder what a Thai person would think of the restaurant in S.F.?  When I lived there, every time I thought a Thai restaurant was better than in Thailand, Thais I knew would tell me that it was terrible.

[Jingthing]

30 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

I wonder what a Thai person would think of the restaurant in S.F.?  When I lived there, every time I thought a Thai restaurant was better than in Thailand, Thais I knew would tell me that it was terrible.

Looking for even ONE Thai restaurant specifically in Pattaya that is:

 

-- a better culinary experience than the best Thai restaurants in the S.F. Bay Area

(OR)

-- a better culinary experience than the best Thai restaurants in Bangkok

(I've given a few examples of what I consider exceptional Thai food in Bangkok)

(OR)

Even close. 

 

As far as what Thais know and what non-Thais know, surely by now after all these years living in Thailand, you can distinguish levels of Thai food without having the  crutch of confirmation of a Thai national.

 

Edited August 27, 2016 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

37 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

 

 

As far as what Thais know and what non-Thais know, surely by now after all these years living in Thailand, you can distinguish levels of Thai food without having the  crutch of confirmation of a Thai national.

 

 

 

Not really. I am not a big fan of Thai food. I mostly eat it because it is cheap. I much prefer Chinese or Japanese or even Vietnamese.

[anotheruser]

Thai food isn't great to start with. So it would ring true that it wouldn't be great in Pattaya. Much like there isn't much to eat in Port Rush which is a sea side town. They are comparable places with an ocean you wouldnt swim in and there is very little to eat. Pattaya would actually beat this place for eating. But to wonder why some small beach town doesn't have sophisticated food is almost laughable.

[craigt3365]

5 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

I wonder what a Thai person would think of the restaurant in S.F.?  When I lived there, every time I thought a Thai restaurant was better than in Thailand, Thais I knew would tell me that it was terrible.

We've not eaten at this specific restaurant, but have at some of the best Thai restaurants across the US during our travels.  My wife, a great cook, has said they are OK, not 100% authentic, and expensive!  But OK.  At least some of them.  Some have been pretty bad.

 

We had pretty good Thai food in the middle of nowhere in Colorado one time.  The waitress admitted she'd never tried, but apparently, one cook in the back was Thai and did an OK job. LOL

[yogi100]

I tried some clam chowder, a sort of soup they sell in SF. If the San Franciscan Thai food is anything like that clam soup give it a miss. It was vile and it was not cheap either.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

giddyup.

I wish you luck with the 1,000 places.

[NanLaew]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Looking for even ONE Thai restaurant specifically in Pattaya that is:

 

-- a better culinary experience than the best Thai restaurants in the S.F. Bay Area

(OR)

-- a better culinary experience than the best Thai restaurants in Bangkok

(I've given a few examples of what I consider exceptional Thai food in Bangkok)

(OR)

Even close. 

 

As far as what Thais know and what non-Thais know, surely by now after all these years living in Thailand, you can distinguish levels of Thai food without having the  crutch of confirmation of a Thai national.

 

 

There is none. End of.

 

What is the significance of the SF Bay Area Thai dining experience apart from the OP allegedly knowing it as well as Pattaya's admittedly rather moribund Thai dining experience? There are absolutely no common or relevant points of reference especially in the extremely subjective area of culinary taste.

 

Bangkok is the capital of the Thai nation. Now there's a clue. As already pointed out, Pattaya is chock full of Thailand's trailer trash so 5-star dining isn't ever going to feature here any time soon (5-star pricing is well in hand, no worries). It's a holiday jaunt for the type of Bangkok citizen who wouldn't normally eat at the aforementioned hi-so Bangkok dining establishments. Who packs a dinner jacket just to go the beach?

 

And finally making the assumption that anyone else that's been here any length of time and has a differing opinion probably still needs to be told by their significant Thai other what's good, bad or indifferent? Up yourself much?

 

I think this thread has well and truly passed its sell-by date.

[giddyup]

25 minutes ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

giddyup.

I wish you luck with the 1,000 places.

Don't need luck, just walk out the door and there they are.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

What?all 1,000 of them? i suggest you count again because i know for a fact there is only 999.

[Jingthing]

37 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

...

 

I think this thread has well and truly passed its sell-by date.

Thanks for sharing.

If the thread no longer interests you (or never did) then you're welcome to ignore it.

It will fizzle out, sooner or later, like any thread (with a few exceptions)

Let it happen naturally based on it's authentic level of resonance.

 

Cheers. 

[Jingthing]

Some points --

 

"Authentic" is more subjective than people think.

I started a thread a while back featuring an article asserting (I think too widely) that Americans think if an ethnic food is spicy, then that means it's authentic, and if not, not. Obviously that isn't true. It depends on the dish and it depends on the spices and it depends if the chef is even trying to replicate authenticity, or instead doing her own take on a dish.

 

Also on authentic thinking about the Michelin star dim sum I had in Bangkok (actually it's a chain and the star was from Hong Kong), some of their dim sim was recognizably typically "authentic" but just done really really well and OTHER dishes were still Chinese dim sum but done in such a different creative elevated way than I've ever seen in a Chinese restaurant that I suppose you could say they were not authentic. So bloody what?!? Still Chinese food.

 

Of course if they were serving dishes that were like Spanish tapas than Chinese dim sum plates, well then that wouldn't be Chinese food anywhere  ... but in that case, they were not.

 

Thais, like most nationals, are nationalistic. Arguably Thais are more so than average. For a Thai to say a Thai restaurant abroad is exceptional may be blocked by chauvinistic nationalism, as if Thailand "owns" their cuisine. They do not, any more than China owns Chinese food. I recall hearing Indians telling me the Indian food at certain restaurants in the S.F. Bay Area were much better than the Indian food back home where they lived in India, in fact, they said they DREAMED about eating it while back in India. Good food goes beyond borders these days.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2016 by Jingthing

[bbi1]

"Jason F. said "The goat cheese Nan was ridiculous delicious." - From the 1st review off that site.

 

Geez, I never knew goat cheese was a staple of Thai food. No wonder San Fran Thai food is better than in Thailand, they have a lot more types of Thai food than Thailand!! 

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

"Jason F. said "The goat cheese Nan was ridiculous delicious." - From the 1st review off that site.

 

Geez, I never knew goat cheese was a staple of Thai food. No wonder San Fran Thai food is better than in Thailand, they have a lot more types of Thai food than Thailand!! 

I couldn't find that but if it's there I suspect it's an error. Even if there was something called a Nan on their menu (doubtful but possible) perhaps it was in the context of a bread like a cheese stuffed roti for dipping in a curry. (Actually that sounds like it could be really good!) In any case, whether there was "Nan" or not I really feel you're getting too granular as it's not about a specific menu item. The point is more general. Pattaya lacks Thai restaurants that deliver WOW Thai food ... which of course Bangkok doesn't lack, and obviously more controversially some places in the west don't lack either. 

 

I would agree that anything resembling goat cheese nan on a Thai food menu is getting deep into fusion (because it uses cheese). The rabbit meat and rabbit meatball green curry I don't consider fusion though at least by it's description. More like an inspired creative take on a classic Thai dish. 

 

There is a general consensus here that Pattaya doesn't offer the level of Thai food restaurants that can be found at some places in Bangkok. If people are having a big problem accepting that same is true about SOME Thai food places in the west, that's fine. It  doesn't really matter in the broader context of this thread. 

Edited August 28, 2016 by Jingthing

[thaihome]

On 8/25/2016 at 2:54 PM, Jingthing said:

Sure thing dude.

The point was we're in Thailand, here in Pattaya, or so the map says, and yet this really is NOT a great area for world class THAI food. 

That's weird to me.

 

Haven't read all pages, but has anyone pointed out to you that pattaya, though indeed Thailand's largest resort and the number one tourist destination for Thais, has still relatively small population base, including visitors,  compared to SF or Bangkok, much less one that could support the the type of restaurant you are wishing for. There isn't even a true 5 star resort, much less a 5 star restaurant. 

 

Certainly  your difficulties in even getting people here to understand what type of restaurant you are talking about shows how hard it would be to have one succeed.  It's not about laziness of operators,  it's about demographics.  

TH 

[Jingthing]

There isn't a high end resort here? Really? You mean the kind of place that costs 100k dollars a day?

Anyway I'm not so sure at least one more excellent Thai restaurant couldn't make it here. I am sure there isn't much incentive to try that.

Again not talking about super expensive dinner jacket high end hotel restaurants with overpriced fancy presentation food. Talking about high culinary value period.