PM Prayut says there must be political reforms before an election

[edwinchester]

"The prime minister admitted he didn’t understand why politicians have to spend a lot of money in order to be in politics while he himself has not spent any money to buy favour from the people."

 

Surely something lost in translation or a warped sense of humour.

[soalbundy]

47 minutes ago, Plutojames88 said:

Gen Prayut's is unqualified to fathom the word good

That is unfair, i don't doubt his good intentions but he is a soldier and they aren't by nature very intelligent or diplomatic, he has lost his way and will stay on the bus until it goes into the depot instead of getting off at the next best stop.

[lucky11]

11 hours ago, Thechook said:

Yes the ability to hand pick the Senate of non elected people, select and appoint your own unelected P.M all of whom will be totally controlled and take orders from the military puppet masters.  Yes your reforms prior to a pointless election are coming along nicely where the military will forever have total control.

 

 If it is carried out through a democratic process then nobody can have any complaints!! This is what democracy is all about, isn't it?

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, lucky11 said:

 

 If it is carried out through a democratic process then nobody can have any complaints!! This is what democracy is all about, isn't it?

But you jest, i hope.

[heybruce]

5 minutes ago, lucky11 said:

 

 If it is carried out through a democratic process then nobody can have any complaints!! This is what democracy is all about, isn't it?

Has anything democratic happened since May 2014?  I must have missed it.

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The mindset that says gangs can hijack politics, ignore laws, do things that benefit themselves regardless of the impact on the people and the country, refuse to obey the courts, break laws and lie, and be totally untouchable,  also has to be change

I assume you are describing the military/junta.

[lucky11]

40 minutes ago, ramrod711 said:

 

And yet the Thai people came out and voted yes to the charter despite Yingluck, Jatuporn , his gang of 19 influential red shirts. I guess you may have miscalculated what the Thai people want, even though you are all foremost experts on the subject. AS I said before laughable.

 

 Absolutely!! Why didn't the blind followers of these crooked politicians behave themselves by obeying their leaders and voting in line with their intentions to vote NO to both of the questions?  Maybe, just maybe, they were of a different opinion to them and want to see progress of the new charter whereby the elected politicians MUST follow the road map to peace and stability and a properly performing government working for the people and not themselves (as has been the case in the past)!!

Edited August 31, 2016 by lucky11

[heybruce]

39 minutes ago, ramrod711 said:

 

And yet the Thai people came out and voted yes to the charter despite Yingluck, Jatuporn , his gang of 19 influential red shirts. I guess you may have miscalculated what the Thai people want, even though you are all foremost experts on the subject. AS I said before laughable.

Government sponsored propaganda, village loudspeakers blaring out that people must vote twice daily (and yet only a 60% turnout), ten year prison terms for people who criticized the draft constitution, a choice between continued military rule or continued military rule, and an "approved" constitution that is still being interpreted and amended.

 

Maybe the Thai people voted because they wanted any kind of change, or maybe they didn't vote as reported.  After all, the vote and vote count wasn't monitored, the junta could report any results it wanted.

[Winniedapu]

2 hours ago, JayBeeee said:

I remember a "good person" in Thai politics from a few years ago; don't remember his name, but I can still see the look of defeat on his face when he quit.

His reasons for quitting were that he couldn't find any good people in government to work with him. He was a genuine person with a good heart and a commitment to doing the right thing and helping to make life better for poor Thai people.

The greatest obstacle he encountered when trying to raise support in getting something done was the "what's in it for me?" response he would invariably get from his colleagues in government.
I can understand Gen. Prayut's sentiments, but certainly don't envy his task of achieving the goal.

 

 

With respect, you don't know what his sentiments are, and I think you'd be surprised at what they are if you did know.

 

You only know what he tells you (and others). Here's a clue: why  would an honest man pay a team of professional liars to explain things to the public?

 

I advise all people in Thailand do take notice of what this man does, not what he says, and to watch his non-verbal language, not just listen to what he says. You can lie with words, but it's harder to lie with non-verbal languages.

 

Winnie

[halloween]

If reforms aren't needed, then Thai democracy must have been working well in 2011. They did have elections, that's about the best that can be said of it.

[Winniedapu]

1 hour ago, ramrod711 said:

 

And yet the Thai people came out and voted yes to the charter despite Yingluck, Jatuporn , his gang of 19 influential red shirts. I guess you may have miscalculated what the Thai people want, even though you are all foremost experts on the subject. AS I said before laughable.

 

 

Here's an interesting exercise in arithmetic:

 

Nah, don't bother, you know what the arithmetic is, and yet you still try to pretend that 'the Thai people' voted to pass the referendum.

 

None so blind as those who decide not to see.

 

Winnie

 

 

[Hawk]

"while he himself has not spent any money to buy favour from the people."

 

No he didn't buy favour just intimidated half the country.

 

[Eric Loh]

22 minutes ago, lucky11 said:

 

 Absolutely!! Why didn't the blind followers of these crooked politicians behave themselves by obeying their leaders and voting in line with their intentions to vote NO to both of the questions?  Maybe, just maybe, they were of a different opinion to them and want to see progress of the new charter whereby the elected politicians MUST follow the road map to peace and stability and a properly performing government working for the people and not themselves (as has been the case in the past)!!

 

No, you wrong. Voters for the charter because they want a speedy return to electoral democracy just like in 2007 referendum. They had enough and suffered enough of the junta harsh treatment and ruining the economy and want to see the back of the military as soon as possible can. As in 2007, the true reflection of the people was fully exposed in the immediate election when PPP won a landslide election. The NE and the deep South voted in line with what the anti charter politicians suggested. You wrong again.  

[tbthailand]

29 minutes ago, heybruce said:

the junta could report any results it wanted

so far, it looks like this is exactly what they did... pick a number between 60 and 80, ... any number.   

[ramrod711]

1 minute ago, Winniedapu said:

 

 

Here's an interesting exercise in arithmetic:

 

Nah, don't bother, you know what the arithmetic is, and yet you still try to pretend that 'the Thai people' voted to pass the referendum.

 

None so blind as those who decide not to see.

 

Winnie

 

 

Surely you jest, voter turnout is falling all over the world, but you don't dismiss the results of the Brexit vote or Presidential elections in America because of low turnout. I have only been in Thailand for 11 years but I was around for the last coup in 2006. I must admit I was taken by surprise because I didn't know the history of my new home, but it was very evident that people were upset by the fact that your hero changed the tax laws days before he sold Shincorp to Singaporeans while paying no tax. I'm not privy to the thinking of the "elite" but I saw students and regular folks on the streets protesting and placing flowers in soldiers rifle and tank barrels. Coincidentally, I'm sure, the people hit the streets after the amnesty vote. Two unpopular decisions by Thaksin, two coups. All at the whim of the "elite" because Thais don't know what they like, or what is good for them, you do. Right. 

[debate101]

This is always so frustrating, because of course there was excess, corruption, political manipulation, injustice, and selfish behavior under the elected governments. The problem with the military government's supporters is that they are so focused on those things that they never take the time to realize that the "reforms" are doing nothing to solve these problems.

 

The country needs decentralization of power to deal with excess, but instead, they are completely recentralizing it after two decades of moderate progress. The country needs free and independent media with different biases to reveal and root out corruption. Instead, the media are being monitored, censored, threatened, and shut down. The country needs reform of a politicized, activist, and patently unfair judiciary, but instead they are being given even more power while reform is nowhere to be found. Politicians are always going to behave selfishly, but we can make it in their best interests to be skilled policymakers and good at negotiating for their constituencies in order to bring peace to a society with increasingly diverse groups of priorities. This is not happening. Politicians will have less incentive than ever under this constitution to serve their constituents faithfully, and will truly be in it for themselves, as they'll have basically no say when it comes to policy since it can all be annulled at the senate's whim. 

 

The country needs demicratic reforms. Almost everyone can agree on that. This is not what they look like. This is quite a bit what unaccountable military authoritarianism entrenching itself looks like, however.

 

Supporters must be dense, under-informed, or just intellectually dishonest. If you disagree, please clue me in as to how any of these "reforms" are going to strengthen democracy rather than just getting rid of it altogether.

 

[amdy2206]

Another way to delay the 'so called' election. Will.there ever be one?

[baboon]

4 minutes ago, amdy2206 said:

Another way to delay the 'so called' election. Will.there ever be one?

Under current conditions, does it really matter?

[BlindMagician]

9 hours ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

So who decide what a bad person look like and how a good person look like ? All humans have good and bad in them so no one will pass his test. Now he not only have written the new consitution he now will decide who the voters can vote for. 

 

Who decides?.....that's the whole point of democracy! Kim et al just don't get it do they.

[Winniedapu]

50 minutes ago, ramrod711 said:

Surely you jest, voter turnout is falling all over the world, but you don't dismiss the results of the Brexit vote or Presidential elections in America because of low turnout. I have only been in Thailand for 11 years but I was around for the last coup in 2006. I must admit I was taken by surprise because I didn't know the history of my new home, but it was very evident that people were upset by the fact that your hero changed the tax laws days before he sold Shincorp to Singaporeans while paying no tax. I'm not privy to the thinking of the "elite" but I saw students and regular folks on the streets protesting and placing flowers in soldiers rifle and tank barrels. Coincidentally, I'm sure, the people hit the streets after the amnesty vote. Two unpopular decisions by Thaksin, two coups. All at the whim of the "elite" because Thais don't know what they like, or what is good for them, you do. Right. 

 

 

I'm not interested in feeble justifications. Voter turnout may be falling all over the world, but I haven't heard any nitwit proclaiming that a small minority voting in favour represents 'the will of the people'. That would truly be a superlative numbskullery.

 

But here we are... and Thaksin just keeps on winning... I may not like that any more than you do but it does seem to be a fact, though the anti-Thaksin lobby are usually queuing up to say he won with a minority of public votes. And here we are, that's just what's happening now with you. But now it's the junta, the tune quickly changes. Dealing with people can be so tedious, some more than others. I recall (to illustrate to someone the true nature of futility) trying to discuss quantum mechanics with my dog. That was just as tedious and I'm getting that feeling again so I'll excuse myself from this exchange if you don't mind. In fact, I'll excuse myself from it if you do mind...

 

None so blind as those who choose not to see.

 

Winnie

Edited August 31, 2016 by Winniedapu

[JAG]

36 minutes ago, amdy2206 said:

Another way to delay the 'so called' election. Will.there ever be one?

 

No, not while there is the remotest chance that their side will not win.

 

This can be achieved by either gerrymandering the suffrage system, or disenfranchising the section of society, geographical and economic, who will not vote for them. Probably a combination of both.

 

"Political reforms" before an election.

Edited August 31, 2016 by JAG

[Eligius]

2 hours ago, Hawk said:

"while he himself has not spent any money to buy favour from the people."

 

No he didn't buy favour just intimidated half the country.

 

Right. But I would say intimidated a lot more than just 'half' the country!

[Eligius]

1 hour ago, amdy2206 said:

Another way to delay the 'so called' election. Will.there ever be one?

Not a free and fair one. Can't see it happening any time soon. But then - one never knows what turn events will take after a certain Event ...

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, ramrod711 said:

Surely you jest, voter turnout is falling all over the world, but you don't dismiss the results of the Brexit vote or Presidential elections in America because of low turnout. I have only been in Thailand for 11 years but I was around for the last coup in 2006. I must admit I was taken by surprise because I didn't know the history of my new home, but it was very evident that people were upset by the fact that your hero changed the tax laws days before he sold Shincorp to Singaporeans while paying no tax. I'm not privy to the thinking of the "elite" but I saw students and regular folks on the streets protesting and placing flowers in soldiers rifle and tank barrels. Coincidentally, I'm sure, the people hit the streets after the amnesty vote. Two unpopular decisions by Thaksin, two coups. All at the whim of the "elite" because Thais don't know what they like, or what is good for them, you do. Right. 

Obviously a Bangkok man.  This may come as a shock to you and others, but Bangkok isn't Thailand.

 

Under military rule, or when governed by weak elected governments controlled by the military and privy counsel, Bangkok was the center of power and patronage in Thailand.  This made its people very wealthy, salaries in Bangkok are several times the national average.

 

Democracy threatened Bangkok as the center of wealth, power and patronage, which is why Bangkok is also the center of opposition to democracy.  I won't rehash the details again, I'll once again point you to the 2012 World Bank assessment of the situation http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2012/05/10/thailand-public-finance-management-review-report

 

People in Bangkok are happy to live without democracy if that means being the center of power and wealth.  The rest of the country isn't as keen on that system.  This country has some strong "Hunger Games" similarities.

 

 

[waitforusalso]

2 hours ago, ramrod711 said:

Surely you jest, voter turnout is falling all over the world, but you don't dismiss the results of the Brexit vote or Presidential elections in America because of low turnout. I have only been in Thailand for 11 years but I was around for the last coup in 2006. I must admit I was taken by surprise because I didn't know the history of my new home, but it was very evident that people were upset by the fact that your hero changed the tax laws days before he sold Shincorp to Singaporeans while paying no tax. I'm not privy to the thinking of the "elite" but I saw students and regular folks on the streets protesting and placing flowers in soldiers rifle and tank barrels. Coincidentally, I'm sure, the people hit the streets after the amnesty vote. Two unpopular decisions by Thaksin, two coups. All at the whim of the "elite" because Thais don't know what they like, or what is good for them, you do. Right. 

Seems that the 'changing of tax laws' as you put it, was being called for by Thaksin's political opponents;

" The transaction made the prime minister the target of accusations that he was selling an asset of national importance to a foreign entity, and hence selling out his nation. The Democrat Party spokesman called Thaksin worse than Saddam for not protecting the Thai economy from foreigners: "Dictator Saddam, though a brutal tyrant, still fought the superpower for the Iraqi motherland."^[7][8] Supporters, however, counter that Thailand's mobile phone industry is highly competitive, and that little criticism was raised when the Norwegian firm Telenor acquired Total Access Communications, the country's second largest operator. Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva had criticized Thaksin earlier for not sufficiently opening up the Thai telecom sector to foreigners.^[9][10] Supporters further counter that the complete sale of Shin Corporation by the Shinawatra-Damapong families had been a long-standing demand of some public groups,^[11] as it would allow Thaksin to undertake his duties as prime minister without accusation of conflicts of interest. " Wikipedia

[Redline]

Good and bad?  Now he is God?  In this world, look at the politicians.

Sorry, time to a take a course on politics and governance, and use your position to ask some questions on how this all works.

[ramrod711]

48 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Obviously a Bangkok man.  This may come as a shock to you and others, but Bangkok isn't Thailand.

 

Under military rule, or when governed by weak elected governments controlled by the military and privy counsel, Bangkok was the center of power and patronage in Thailand.  This made its people very wealthy, salaries in Bangkok are several times the national average.

 

Democracy threatened Bangkok as the center of wealth, power and patronage, which is why Bangkok is also the center of opposition to democracy.  I won't rehash the details again, I'll once again point you to the 2012 World Bank assessment of the situation http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2012/05/10/thailand-public-finance-management-review-report

 

People in Bangkok are happy to live without democracy if that means being the center of power and wealth.  The rest of the country isn't as keen on that system.  This country has some strong "Hunger Games" similarities.

 

 

 

Hey Bruce, obviously you jumped to the wrong conclusion...as usual. I live in a "red" village in the north of Thailand, not too far from red central Chiang Mai. By the way, ask your buddy Winnie what Thaksin has won lately, seems his sister is going to owe billions and he keeps celebrating his birthdays in Dubai, what is it 7 or 8 of them now? I've lost track but how ever many it is, is not enough.

[JayBeeee]

2 hours ago, halloween said:

If reforms aren't needed, then Thai democracy must have been working well in 2011. They did have elections, that's about the best that can be said of it.

Yes, I remember those elections! Pickups with loudspeakers continuously driving through the village, openly broadcasting their offer of ฿200 and a free ride to the polling station for everyone who votes for their man or woman. Two hours before the vote was due to close it went up to ฿300.

By tradition in this country, ANY position of power, from Phuyai Ban to PM has been sought for personal gain and empowerment, with the exception of a good few who believed they could change the system from within, but failed due to overwhelming opposition.

Prayut has a monumental and unenviable task on his shoulders! When the General's superior (treading on dangerous ground here) leaves us, there's going to be nobody to replace him, and the current occupier of that seat, if indeed there still is one, knew that a long time ago.

I can see the ultimate goal of the game, which started with the yellow shirts' protests being staged as a lead-up to the coup, being to create a fully democratic state before that time comes; but before that can happen, the whole house has to be rebuilt from the ground up, with new foundations. Establishing a non-corrupt, completely accountable and transparent political system are those foundations and, as with all new structures, the ground has to be cleared and the crap taken away; the problem here is that the current house was built on a vast open sewer, and removing it is going to be a very dirty and foul-smelling job that will upset many of those who have to live with it while it's happening.

I think we need to pay less attention to the smell of the schit and look ahead to living in the new house.

[baboon]

"I think we need to pay less attention to the smell of the schit and look ahead to living in the new house."

 

Living in the new house. With your parents who still think you are 8. Forever...

 Like this

[JayBeeee]

25 minutes ago, baboon said:

"I think we need to pay less attention to the smell of the schit and look ahead to living in the new house."

 

Living in the new house. With your parents who still think you are 8. Forever...

 Like this

Careful what you say 'bout my mumma!