Affirmation certificate from British embassy not being accepted by Thai government

[benjybkk]

Evening all.

 

I had an appointment set up for tomorrow morning at the British embassy on Wireless road in Bangkok to get the affirmation of marriage form done. The form as I understand it to show that you are not already married or there is no other legal reason why you can't get married here.

 

I downloaded the form, filled it in and printed it off last night ready for signing etc at the embassy tomorrow.  However, at 4.30pm this afternoon I got a call from the British embassy to say that the Thai government has (I assume today or very recently) advised the embassies of several countries not only the UK that their affirmation form is no longer satisfactory for reasons the lady from the embassy either didn't know or couldn't disclose.  She couldn't give me any further information other than to say it was at my discretion whether to keep the appointment tomorrow morning, pay the fee of 50 pounds and take a chance at CW as to whether they accepted it. Obviously if they didn't accept it that money would be gone and the form useless. It's not so much the 50 pounds I'm worried about but the whole process of going to the embassy, then getting the affirmation translated  and going all the way to CW and waiting there too just to have it refused by the official is something I'd rather avoid. 

 

She couldn't give me any time frame as to when it will be resolved. All she could say is she had a list of people like me she would email/call as soon as she had more information. She also said that possibly the British embassy will have to amend the affirmation form to appease the Thai government. I can only assume the current form is not detailed enough and the questions do not suffice anymore.

 

Obviously this is a pretty big deal and extremely inconvenient as it halts any marriage process for any UK citizen in Thailand at the moment. Has anybody else heard anything similar or experienced this yet?

 

Cheers.

[ubonjoe]

Moved to the marriage and divorce forum

[elviajero]

Haven't heard anything but, out of interest, why do you need an affirmation for freedom to marry at CW immigration?

[lopburi3]

He did not say immigration - MFA must certify translation and they are located at CW

[benjybkk]

Yeah it's nothing to do with immigration. You have to go to CW as the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is located there.They certify your translation so I guess it is them who are refusing the current affirmation form from the UK embassy.

[elviajero]

6 minutes ago, benjybkk said:

Yeah it's nothing to do with immigration. You have to go to CW as the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is located there.They certify your translation so I guess it is them who are refusing the current affirmation form from the UK embassy.

Sorry, I misread your post.

 

I would have thought that the only person that cares about the affirmation of marriage is the marriage registrar. Not sure why the MFA would not verify a translation as long as the translation is correct. Maybe your fiancee could check at the office you plan to marry at.

Edited September 1, 2016 by elviajero

[benjybkk]

Hi elviajero. Thx for your comment but I think you've missed the point. The details on the affirmation are translated into Thai after you leave the embassy and then approved at the MFA. You have to do this and get it stamped so it is accepted at the registrar when you actually go to register your marriage. 

 

The problem is that the details on the form are not enough for the Thai government now according to the lady at the British embassy. Just speculating but at the moment it just has address, occupation, salary etc. Maybe the government has decided they want criminal record check or something. I'm just guessing. My point is that this isn't a problem just for me and I understand the process fully. A lot better than my Thai fiancee does. 

 

This must be affecting other people or if not now it definitely will over the next few days and next week until resolved. I was just hoping that on the off chance someone else affected also read this forum.

 

Thanks

[benjybkk]

The affirmation document is based on a template downloaded from the UK embassy. You just fill in the fields. Apparently it is the template that is not being accepted so therefor any translation of it will also not be accepted. Consequently no UK citizen can marry here until this is sorted out. 

[AlQaholic]

Strange, nobody asked for anything like that when I married my wife in Sweden.

[maoro2013]

Can't say for UK citizens but I had to provide evidence of a previous divorce in Australia.

 

A bit weird really because I could have remarried again there and therefore a previous divorce document is fairly meaningless.

 

This reminds me of the letter from the bank saying what funds you have for a visa. One minute after the bank has written that letter you could withdraw the lot, meaningless as well.

[happylarry]

13 minutes ago, maoro2013 said:

Can't say for UK citizens but I had to provide evidence of a previous divorce in Australia.

 

A bit weird really because I could have remarried again there and therefore a previous divorce document is fairly meaningless.

 

This reminds me of the letter from the bank saying what funds you have for a visa. One minute after the bank has written that letter you could withdraw the lot, meaningless as well.

Agree about the affirmation but not quite the same with the visa funds letter, it shows that you have actually transferred the funds into Thailand, which is what they are concerned with.

HL

[sometimewoodworker]

47 minutes ago, AlQaholic said:

Strange, nobody asked for anything like that when I married my wife in Sweden.

 

Not strange.

Diffrent countries, different requirements.

It is required in Thailand 

[recom273]

I was quite confused when I got mine, from what I can remember there is no research - it's just a sworn statement. You typed your own letter, there was no appointment system, just rolled up and answered he obvious question. To  I felt that it was quite a lot of money for the. Service. Perhaps the Thais finally realized this.

[maoro2013]

26 minutes ago, happylarry said:

Agree about the affirmation but not quite the same with the visa funds letter, it shows that you have actually transferred the funds into Thailand, which is what they are concerned with.

HL

Depends a bit on what immigration office you are dealing with.

 

Mine insisted that my funds were in a fixed deposit which, in a way, should make the bank letter superfluous, but no.

 

The funds are actually a guarantee that you can support yourself for the coming year, I thought, but in a fixed deposit how can the funds be used.

 

All BS as far as I am concerned, doesn't make any sense with what my immigration office wants.

[louse1953]

1 hour ago, maoro2013 said:

Can't say for UK citizens but I had to provide evidence of a previous divorce in Australia.

 

A bit weird really because I could have remarried again there and therefore a previous divorce document is fairly meaningless.

 

This reminds me of the letter from the bank saying what funds you have for a visa. One minute after the bank has written that letter you could withdraw the lot, meaningless as well.

Yes you can.But try and withdraw it within the last 3 months,that is the point.Your point is meaningless.

[Emster23]

Anyone happen to which other countries affirmation forms don't cut it now?

As a side note, I did write to US embassy that perhaps it might be service to citizens if they made copy of form in Thai as part of package. They have Thai staff that could (one hopes) make passable translation. Why should we have to run about finding translator? Embassy replied they'd "discuss the matter" at some meeting...

[louse1953]

1 hour ago, maoro2013 said:

Depends a bit on what immigration office you are dealing with.

 

Mine insisted that my funds were in a fixed deposit which, in a way, should make the bank letter superfluous, but no.

 

The funds are actually a guarantee that you can support yourself for the coming year, I thought, but in a fixed deposit how can the funds be used.

 

All BS as far as I am concerned, doesn't make any sense with what my immigration office wants.

You don't understand fixed deposits.Can be withdrawn at any time.Makes perfect sense to most that use that model.

[ubonjoe]

The US embassy has heard nothing about it.

I received this from a consular officer I emailed. With a link to this topic.

Quote

Joe,

 

Interesting, certainly not!

This is a big news and thank you for the information. This is very important to know for our section since we notarize a lot of Marriage Affidavits. This sure will be one of your topics, I hope.

 

I have just complied with their request in the last line.

[PREM-R]

I received this email from UK Gov

 

 

Thailand travel advice

01-09-2016 15:47 PM GMT

Latest update: Summary – if you’re intending to marry in Thailand, some registry authorities are not accepting Affirmation of Marriage documents issued by the British Embassy in Thailand; you should check with your local registrar or district office where you intend to register your marriage if they will accept an Affirmation for Marriage from the British Embassy

Provided by GOV.UK. Contact us to ask questions or report problems.

Edited September 2, 2016 by PREM-R

[maoro2013]

35 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

Yes you can.But try and withdraw it within the last 3 months,that is the point.Your point is meaningless.

I do not understand what you mean. Please clarify.

[benjybkk]

Thanks PREM-R.

 

But we don't have any idea why or what is being done about it? 

 

Personally we are happy to register the marriage at any district office in Bangkok or Nonthaburi so even if some are not accepting the British affirmation it would just be a case of finding one office that would? Am I correct in that assumption do you think?

 

Cheers

Ben

[stevenl]

46 minutes ago, PREM-R said:

I received this email from UK Gov

 

 

Thailand travel advice

01-09-2016 15:47 PM GMT

Latest update: Summary – if you’re intending to marry in Thailand, some registry authorities are not accepting Affirmation of Marriage documents issued by the British Embassy in Thailand; you should check with your local registrar or district office where you intend to register your marriage if they will accept an Affirmation for Marriage from the British Embassy

Provided by GOV.UK. Contact us to ask questions or report problems.

That makes perfect sense. So the correct answer was already given in post #6.

[aquario33]

Maybe try MFA in Chiangmai ? probably more easy going..

[TangoArgentinoPhuket]

Hi, here is my recent experience with Mariage in Bkk ( December 2015) I am French. So this is what happen with French embassy. It may be different with UK embassy but I guess that Thai official requirements are the same for all countries.

 

Before marry a Thai citizen,  Thai authorities ask French authorities a special certificate called (certificat d'aptitude a Marriage -  Ability Certificate to marriage) . which need to be asked by the French embassy to France official registration authorities in order to certify that the person is not already married in his/her native country and really legally exists etc .

A simple declaration from a embassy staff is  not enough and this need to be officially proved.

It takes around one month from the embassy to get this document in return form France official registrations together with other legal official documents of proof and to deliver this special certificate for Thai authorities..

 

Only after the document set is complete (with this ability certificate to marriage ) embassy will give appointment WITH the future spouse to get exanimated and give or not the green light for their certification. Then all documents needed by Thai Authorities are stamped and translated before going to the place to marry and then after to the ministry of foreign affair for registration of your Thai marriage. Then you can go back to your embasse to have your marriage officially registered in your own country.

 

Done without problem for me and my Thai wife with full respect of the process, between October and December 2015.

Hope this help.

 

 

[Deepinthailand]

Having just been to KK main Amphoe to act as witnesses for wedding (witnesses not needed in the end) about 3 hrs ago now. UK groom Thai bride. Affirmation of marriage from consulate accepted without a second glance.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

Maybe this new affirmation will be a lot stricter.Delving into peoples past and history.Asking for birth certificates and Mothers and Fathers details and addresses.And proof thereof.Maybe a letter of confirmation from an official body,such as their doctor,or a former employer. Giving details that can be checked.Especially an enhanced police check for any hidden sexual crimes or terrorist offences.

Perhaps the Thai authorities are actually  beginning to want to know who is marrying a Thai citizen and for what reasons.

If this is a security risk prevention exercise,then,  i say good,about time.This move gives the idea that the junta actually,now believes that they are,perhaps not entirely free of terrorist interest,and that this pocket of Asia could be  next on the agenda.Making it possible for a runaway husband,who only married to gain a little respect,and has other reasons in mind,to be tracked and traced more easily.

[Deepinthailand]

23 minutes ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Maybe this new affirmation will be a lot stricter.Delving into peoples past and history.Asking for birth certificates and Mothers and Fathers details and addresses.And proof thereof.Maybe a letter of confirmation from an official body,such as their doctor,or a former employer. Giving details that can be checked.Especially an enhanced police check for any hidden sexual crimes or terrorist offences.

Perhaps the Thai authorities are actually  beginning to want to know who is marrying a Thai citizen and for what reasons.

If this is a security risk prevention exercise,then,  i say good,about time.This move gives the idea that the junta actually,now believes that they are,perhaps not entirely free of terrorist interest,and that this pocket of Asia could be  next on the agenda.Making it possible for a runaway husband,who only married to gain a little respect,and has other reasons in mind,to be tracked and traced more easily.

Why would they want your parents birth certificates? ?have you ever seen your parents birth certificates I know I haven't. They had a copy of my birth certificate when I got my affirmation to marry. And a translated copy. I can see the logic of a police check but that would need to be done in your mother country as well as here. Like a now CRB check in UK. But then again does any other country want this for marriage! !!!. How apart from 90 day reports the much dicussed sim traker are they going to track you??. 

My thoughts make the foreign ID card mandotory not dependent on yellow book. And given out by immigration for anyone on a extension of stay or long term Visa. Put a chip in it then every 6 months you go to immigration in person (no more anyone can do it where they can scan card and see its you. If you move no problem same procedure as it is now and they update ID card.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

Yes i agree,this is not required in other countries but this is Thailand and normal rues do not apply.And if you read my post,for want of a comma,it was not parents birth certificates.It was the applicants birth certificates ,and mothers and fathers DETAILS and proof of addresses.

Anyhow,whats wrong with security,you cant have enough of it in this day and age as far as i am concerned.

Just remember the official at the Island airport that had the electrical failure and all their computer went down.He simply let 3000 people breeze through immigration without being able to check PP's.His answer was "it s ok,we are not worried about these people,they all came with tourist company's"Seriiously.

So! does my post affect you in anyway?are you waiting to get married?have you been refused an afirmation of eligibility to marry?? No? then why does my post make you so bothered about it?

[Deepinthailand]

19 minutes ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Yes i agree,this is not required in other countries but this is Thailand and normal rues do not apply.And if you read my post,for want of a comma,it was not parents birth certificates.It was the applicants birth certificates ,and mothers and fathers DETAILS and proof of addresses.

Anyhow,whats wrong with security,you cant have enough of it in this day and age as far as i am concerned.

Just remember the official at the Island airport that had the electrical failure and all their computer went down.He simply let 3000 people breeze through immigration without being able to check PP's.His answer was "it s ok,we are not worried about these people,they all came with tourist company's"Seriiously.

So! does my post affect you in anyway?are you waiting to get married?have you been refused an afirmation of eligibility to marry?? No? then why does my post make you so bothered about it?

If you read my post it was mealy a questions to you re tour post and then what I see as the way forward. Could give a rats poo if they change the rules on getting married. I said I could see your logic re police checks.

Why so bloody defensive

[swampdonkey]

16 hours ago, AlQaholic said:

Strange, nobody asked for anything like that when I married my wife in Sweden.

 

The OP is in Thailand