Acupuncture or massage to treat chronic pain

[calbear09]

Currently in Phuket Town. Have been dealing with chronic shoulder and upper back pain. I had a few sessions with a blind masseur in Bangkok which helped tremendously now I am in Phuket and looking for remedial massage or acupuncturist.

 

 

Thanks!

[fiddlehead]

I know of an acupuncturist here in Phuket. 

I'll PM you his phone no.  

He is American and I believe properly trained in a few different avenues for helping your problem.   (???)

 

There was another one, that I went to when I had similar problems and he helped me out immensely, but he has since retired. 
His name is Garnet Symons but I don't believe he is taking any customers anymore. 

 

Good luck with your injury. 
 

 

[Pinot]

There is no clinical proof acupuncture or massage works. I've written about what I think it is the best way to treat chronic pain here: 

 

Gaba is the drug for chronic pain

 

Gabapentin was a game-changer for me. 

 

 

[Valentine]

I saw this guy om FB but don't know anyone who has been there http://phuketchiropractic.com/

[democratus]

Acupuncture is a foundation stone of much traditional Chinese medicine and has evolved over the years. Originally it was thought to have been developed around 100 BC, because the first known document which describes an organized system of diagnosis and treatment was The Yellow Emperor’s Classic of Internal Medicine, presented in a series of questions and answers from Hwang-ti (sometimes spelt “Huángdì,” or Huang-ti), to Chhi-Po, his learned minister. However, some doubt has been raised as to whether this is historically correct, as according to the ShanghaiDaily.com (March 16^th 2012, Page B14), the Yellow Emperor lived from 2697-2597 BC. Also, the Yellow Emperor is seen more as a mythological figure than an actual person (2009, Lewis, Mark Edward "The mythology of early China", in Lagerwey, John; Kalinowski, Mark, Early Chinese Religion: Part One: Shang through Han, Leiden and Boston: Brill, pp. 543–594, ISBN 978-90-04-16835-0). It is probable that the document referred to was a compilation of traditions handed down over centuries, and adapted to the prevailing Taoist philosophy, because some evidence exists that acupuncture was practiced prior to The Yellow Emperor’s Classic of Internal Medicine.

Over the centuries acupuncture has changed as the concept migrated to Korea in the 6^th century, then on to Japan carried by medical missionaries, and later developing a base in Europe before being exported to America sometime in the early 20^th century. Along the way it adapted to the predominant beliefs in each country; changed according to the techniques favoured by practitioners, and spiritual elements that found favour were strengthened to the detriment of those that did not. There were contradictory beliefs about the energies of the human body; about the importance of lunar, celestial and earthly cycles, and about the location of acupuncture points. Western medicine also influenced the development of acupuncture, as scientific investigation demolished the concept of “qi” (sometimes termed “ch'I”) a supposed life energy which was affected by the environment or environmental insults, and flows throughout the human body in twelve standard “meridians.”

Qi is a concept which remains unverified by scientific research, and is likely to remain so. Obstruction of qi was a central tenet of acupuncture, and could be caused by “unbalanced” or blocked meridians. Complimenting this belief was the concept of “zàng-fǔ” – with zàng referring to the organs considered to be “yin” in nature – heart, liver, spleen, lung, kidney, and fǔ referring to the “yang” organs – small intestine, large intestine, gall bladder, urinary bladder, stomach and “Sānjiaō” (which translates as “triple burner,” which appears as a reference to the passage of heat and fluids throughout the body). zàng-fǔ are also connected to the meridians. Deficiencies or imbalances within the qi, together with a knowledge of the relationship zàng-fǔ had with the meridians, provided the broad basis for diagnosis and treatment of the patient’s ailment.

Knowledge of health and pathology in early China was rudimentary because dissection was forbidden, and human anatomy as a scientific discipline did not exist. (Oxford Journals; Medicine & Health; Rheumatology, Volume 43; Issue 5, pp. 662-663). Most practitioners of acupuncture have now abandoned much of the spirituality concerning the treatment, and now concentrate on stimulating nerve endings via the insertion of needles into the skin, sometimes using electricity to provide the stimulation.

During President Nixon’s visit to China in 1972, he was shown major surgery being performed using acupuncture techniques – as were delegations composed of Western doctors. According to many reports (e.g., Traditional Medicine and Pseudoscience in China: A Report of the Second CSICOP Delegation (Part 1), Skeptical Enquirer, Vol. 20.4, July/August, 1996, Barry L. Beyerstein and Wallace Sampson) the patients used for demonstration purposes had been heavily indoctrinated and preselected for high pain tolerance. Also, the intravenous drips that supposedly contained hydrating and nourishing fluids – were surreptitiously used as a transport medium for morphine. Furthermore, much of the seemingly objective research on acupuncture and other traditional Chinese medical treatments had been falsified in order to ensure that the outcome of research would not contradict the party line.

A question that needs to be asked is “why, if acupuncture works effectively, why was there a need for chicanery?”

To answer the question of whether acupuncture offers any benefit to the patient we need to look at carefully controlled, peer-reviewed studies. One such study may be Acupuncture treatment for pain: systematic review of randomised clinical trials with acupuncture, placebo acupuncture, and no acupuncture groups. (Madsen MV, Gotzsche PC, Hrobjartsson A. BMJ. 2009;338:a3115.). This reviewed 3025 patients in thirteen trials involving a variety of pain conditions. The reviews conclude that “a small analgesic effect of acupuncture was found, which seems to lack clinical relevance and cannot be clearly distinguished from bias. Whether needling at acupuncture points, or at any site, reduces pain independently of the psychological impact of the treatment ritual is unclear.” In other words, the effect observed may be due to a placebo effect, or the ritual of treatment which is often comforting, or the beliefs and expectations of the patient. The effect may have nothing to do with the curative treatment properties directly associated with actual acupuncture treatment.

In an open source article published in Anesthesia & Analgesia (June 2013, Colquhoun, David PhD; Novella, Steven P. MD., Volume 116, Issue 6,) the authors write “Pain is a big problem. If you read about pain management centers, you might think it had been solved. It has not. And when no effective treatment exists for a medical problem, it leads to a tendency to clutch at straws. Research has shown that acupuncture is little more than such a straw.” The full text can be seen at:

(www.journals.lww.com/anesthesia-analgesia/pages/articleviewer.aspx?year=2013&issue=06000&article=00025&type=Fulltext#)

They then proceed to demolish the concept of acupuncture and conclude by stating “the best controlled studies show a clear pattern, with acupuncture the outcome does not depend on needle location or even needle insertion. Since these variables are those that define acupuncture, the only sensible conclusion is that acupuncture does not work. Everything else is the expected noise of clinical trials, and this noise seems particularly high with acupuncture research. The most parsimonious conclusion is that with acupuncture there is no signal, only noise. The interests of medicine would be best-served if we emulated the Chinese Emperor Dao Guang and issued an edict stating that acupuncture and moxibustion should no longer be used in clinical practice. No doubt acupuncture will continue to exist on the “High Streets” where they can be tolerated as a voluntary self-imposed tax on the gullible (as long as they do not make unjustified claims).”

How many deaths or adverse effects have been noted from acupuncture treatment? As China is the home of acupuncture, per se, it seems instructive to look at statistics from that country. In 2015, there were over 133 million overseas visitors to China according to the Travel China Guide (www.travelchinaguide.com/tourism/), and it must be assumed some of these visitors either visit China with the specific intention to receive acupuncture treatment, or receive acupuncture during their visit as an impulse purchase decision. In August 2010, the World Health Organisation published a study called Acupuncture-related adverse events: a systematic review of the Chinese literature (Bulletin of the World Health Organization 2010; 88:915-921C. doi: 10.2471/BLT.10.076737, Junhua Zhang, Hongcai Shang, Xiumei Gao & Edzard Ernst). Data for the study was extracted from a systematic review of the available Chinese literature only, and examined adverse events associated with acupuncture for the previous 30 years. The authors found a total of 479 cases of acupuncture-related adverse events which were reported, which they thought were “definitely” or “probably” due to the acupuncture procedure. Of these, there were 35 cases of subarachnoid hemorrhage (three of which resulted in death), gluteal abscess (1), abscess of scalp, intracranial abscess (2), suppurative arthritis (1) tetanus (2), tuberculous abscess (3), a buccal space abscess and a temporal abscess. Around 20 cases related to acupuncture-related adverse events other than trauma and infection, and 148 cases of feinting. Other cases reported (including those which were “definitely” and “probably” caused by acupuncture) were aphonia, (the inability to produce voice), leg numbness, metal allergy, skin rash, cough, thirst, fever, shock, etc.

In the West the incidence of adverse effects appear to be low and minor in nature, such as soreness, infections and feinting, and the risks are considerably reduced for these if the practitioner is certified and experienced. This low incidence of treatment complications seems confirmed by a study involving four hundred and nine patients receiving 3535 acupuncture treatments (Complementary Therapies in Medicine, 2003 Jun; 11(2):93-7. Incidence of adverse effects during acupuncture therapy-a multicentre survey. Ernst G, Strzyz H, Hagmeister H).

People with bleeding disorders or who have pacemakers are not advised to undergo treatment by acupuncture, according to advice by the Mayo Clinic. Similarly, if the patient is pregnant some types of acupuncture are thought to stimulate labor, which may result in early delivery.

 

(www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/acupuncture/basics/risks/prc-20020778)

Australian Medicare does not reimburse for acupuncture treatment unless it is part of a doctor's consultation. Both the Medicare and Medicaid systems in the US do not provide coverage for acupuncture. The NHS in the United Kingdom allows limited access to treatment by acupuncture, and the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) only recommends considering acupuncture as a treatment option for chronic lower back pain, chronic tension-type headaches and migraines. Some other insurers do allow reimbursement for treatment by an acupuncturist, but almost invariably conditions apply, such as requiring a statement of medical necessity or prescription from a primary care doctor, and the coverage may also restrict the number of visits, or only cover some of the services the provider offers. Aetna will only reimburse patients for acupuncture treatment for a limited number of conditions (7), and only if it is administered by a health care provider who is a legally qualified physician practicing within the scope of his/her license. As for other conditions (they record another 81 conditions on their site for which acupuncture treatment costs will not be reimbursed), they state “Aetna considers acupuncture experimental and investigational…..because there is inadequate scientific research assessing the efficacy of acupuncture compared with placebo, sham acupuncture or other modalities of treatment in these conditions.” (www.aetna.com/cpb/medical/data/100_199/0135.html).

[KarenBravo]

37 minutes ago, Valentine said:

I saw this guy om FB but don't know anyone who has been there http://phuketchiropractic.com/

 

 

[cncltd1973]

I'm a longtime sufferer of back pain. I'm 43 and lifted way too things. I've tried chiropractors, meds, yoga, etc. and nothing works. Wife took me to a Chinese acupuncturist in Chon Buri that her family in Bowin drives to see. One session with him, including cupping, helped more than anything else I tried. Make sure you find one who also is skilled in TCM (Trad. Chin. Med.). This old 'Dr.' mixed me up some wood chips and twigs in bags for days of the week. The tea tastes horrible, absolutely horrible, but kept my back feeling great for a month! I'm out of the country now, or I'd pass along his info. I would look for an older Chinese acupuncturist with apothecary drawers, who has some Chinese degrees on the wall. Good luck to you

[csabo]

I went to the acupuncturist at Phuket International Hospital. Waste of time and money.  I knew better too I was just in so much pain I would have tried anything. I saw the orthopedist in the same place and he gave me some scrips including Lyrica I believe, that didn't help. Regular high quality massage gave temporary relief. In the end I changed beds and after a month I was much better. I also got a huge bottle of Vicodin my last trip home because I can't get it here. That takes the edge off rough days of which there are few now. YouTube has some great yoga videos specifically targeting back pain that have helped me tremendously in the past. I feel your pain. Good luck.

[whiplash77]

One name: Brain Kendall at Nei Harn. Canadian medical massage. Game changer.

[calbear09]

Brian canadian medical massage? More info please..

 

What would be the best way to figure out where the places are and how to get there? Brand new to this country..

[KarenBravo]

3 hours ago, calbear09 said:

Brian canadian medical massage? More info please..

 

What would be the best way to figure out where the places are and how to get there? Brand new to this country..

 

Here you go....

 

https://sites.google.com/site/tranquilityphuket/contact

[Lokie]

On 9/5/2016 at 3:42 AM, Valentine said:

I saw this guy om FB but don't know anyone who has been there http://phuketchiropractic.com/

 

I use the services of Anthony Kell and have always been happy... 

 

Last time I visited the practice, I was feeling a bit stiff with a slight twinge between the shoulder blades; 

Booked in with Anthony, he had a chat with me first to see what my concerns were, he then got one of his assistants to warm me up first with a 30 min back massage, then put on a bed laid face down and had the electro pads placed along my vertebra down my back, which cause the muscles to spasm, these were on for about 15 mins then I got on a firm low level bed and Anthony carried out a bit of realignment, this takes around 5 mins and if you have never experienced this type of thing before - you are placed in certain positions were the Chiropractor will use your limbs and his weight and lever techniques to crick you back etc, he is a stocky guy and strong which suits me as I am stocky also.

 

I guarantee you will sleep like a baby after he realigns your spine for you and feel a whole lot better, I normally go twice a year to get a realignment - Anthony knows his stuff.

 

p.s price for above ran to about 1500Bhat, i guess it depends what you require as everyone and symptoms will/are differant

Edited September 10, 2016 by Lokie

[calbear09]

Anyone know of gua sha treatment in phuket? Have had some massage and acupuncture done but am still in pain

[KarenBravo]

4 hours ago, calbear09 said:

Anyone know of gua sha treatment in phuket? Have had some massage and acupuncture done but am still in pain

 

Have you tried Western medicine? How about pain-killers?