Trial of SS medic who served at Auschwitz begins in Germany

[webfact]

Trial of SS medic who served at Auschwitz begins in Germany

By DAVID RISING

 

BERLIN (AP) — The oft-delayed trial of a former SS medic who served at the Auschwitz death camp opened Monday in Germany, amid lingering questions about whether the 95-year-old is fit enough for the proceedings to continue.

 

The trial of Hubert Zafke, scheduled to start in February at the Neubrandenburg state court in northeastern Germany, had been postponed three times after presiding Judge Klaus Kabisch determined Zafke wasn't well enough to participate, based on a doctor's assessment.

 

Among other things, the retired farmer suffered from stress and high blood pressure and had suicidal thoughts, the court was told. Already in 2015, the Neubrandenburg court ruled against bringing the case to trial due to Zafke's health, but a higher court overturned that, saying that the trial could go ahead if the sessions were limited.

 

Zafke was examined again Monday morning ahead of the court session, and Kabisch decided to proceed.

 

Zafke was pushed into court in a wheelchair, holding a wooden cane in his hand, and made no comment as the charges against him were read, saying only "yes" that he had understood them, the dpa news agency reported.

 

As the trial opened, prosecutors and attorneys representing Auschwitz victims who are co-plaintiffs both filed motions accusing Kabisch of bias for his previous rulings on Zafke's health, asking for his removal.

 

Prosecutors argued in their motion that Kabisch never intended for the trial to start, noting — among other things — that no Auschwitz survivors had been invited to testify, as is common in such proceedings, dpa reported.

 

Monday's session was ended after two hours when a medic noted that Zafke's blood pressure had risen to an elevated 160:90.

 

"Fitness to stand trial is an imperative according to the rule of law," Kabisch told the court.

 

Kabisch told the court the motions for his removal would now have to be heard before he could schedule another session in the trial. A court spokesman said it is not clear how long it will take for the motions to be resolved.

 

Zafke is charged with 3,681 counts of accessory to murder for allegedly helping the Auschwitz death camp in Nazi-occupied Poland function.

 

The charges stem from a one-month period in 1944 and involve the deaths of Jews who arrived in 14 train transports, among them one that brought Anne Frank and her family to the camp. Frank died later at Bergen-Belsen, and Zafke is not charged over her death.

 

Prosecutors allege that Zafke's unit was involved in putting gas into gas chambers to kill Jews and others, screening blood and other samples from hospitalized women prisoners, and otherwise helping the camp run by treating SS guard personnel.

 

They say the unit was also involved in auxiliary guard duties.

 

Zafke's attorney insists his client was just a medic who did nothing criminal at Auschwitz.

 

-- © Associated Press 2016-09-13

[Ulysses G.]

The court is giving this guy a lot more consideration than he ever gave those poor prisoners.

[jaidam]

Surely this must have passed a statute of limitations? Whatever crimes this man may or may not have had some peripheral involvement with occurred over 70 years ago. Talk about bearing a grudge, let's just let this old guy live out his last days with the miminal of stressful intrusion by media and judicial forces. The time to act was of course 70 odd years ago.

 The guys alledged crimes are of even less significance in modern times, where depending on your ideological viewpoint, mass murder is easily justified so long as the murdered do not share the same vile ideology. Why would one murder be PC and justified and another deemed evil worth hounding the guy for 70 years over. I don't get it. All murder is bad, or none is bad, not some is OK depending on faith bla bla.

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, jaidam said:

Surely this must have passed a statute of limitations? Whatever crimes this man may or may not have had some peripheral involvement with occurred over 70 years ago. Talk about bearing a grudge, let's just let this old guy live out his last days with the miminal of stressful intrusion by media and judicial forces. The time to act was of course 70 odd years ago.

 The guys alledged crimes are of even less significance in modern times, where depending on your ideological viewpoint, mass murder is easily justified so long as the murdered do not share the same vile ideology. Why would one murder be PC and justified and another deemed evil worth hounding the guy for 70 years over. I don't get it. All murder is bad, or none is bad, not some is OK depending on faith bla bla.

I agree with some of what you wrote, but to use something like this for your own anti Islam stance is extremely low.

Edited September 13, 2016 by stevenl

[Ulysses G.]

26 minutes ago, jaidam said:

Surely this must have passed a statute of limitations?

 

There is usually no statute of limitations for MURDER and there shouldn't be. This old Nazi deserves no mercy.

[SheungWan]

25 minutes ago, car720 said:

Hitler killed 6  million whilst Mao killed 45 million yet we seldom hear a word about this.  The Chinese people have moved on.

Just saying...................perhaps it is time the rest of the world also moved on.

 

Also I cannot help wonder what profession the prosecutors will pursue when all the nazis are gone.

 

The Chinese people have not moved on unless you use the wishes of the Chinese CP as your measuring stick.

[geriatrickid]

22 minutes ago, car720 said:

Hitler killed 6  million whilst Mao killed 45 million yet we seldom hear a word about this.  The Chinese people have moved on.

Just saying...................perhaps it is time the rest of the world also moved on.

 

Also I cannot help wonder what profession the prosecutors will pursue when all the nazis are gone.

 

The Chinese have not moved on, because the Chinese people are unaware of what Mao and his Red Guards did. Do you think they teach that type of history in China? Seriously? One of the reasons why the Chinese   have no problem of laying waste to forests, of mass executions of harvesting the organs of the  "condemned" etc., is because the country never addressed its sins.  Do you know why Germany is super power now? It is because it took a long hard look at itself and made an effort to improve. Germany has moved on because it confronted its past. It hasn't repeated its sins  has it? China has.

 

BTW, Hitler killed far more than 6 million. Allied POWs  ended up in concentration camps too. Whole villages of occupied countries were wiped out. You could use  a history lesson, or perhaps you believe the destruction of countries like Poland was an exercise in  urban planning?

 

[xineohp]

Noted within this article...  Nowhere does it state he was a nazi. Not all SS members were card carrying members of the nazi party.

Evidence has yet to be provided to the court that he did anything other than those stated duties.

How easy it is to make accusations and assume guilt by association. 

No doubt our American friend will not be able to contain himself and come back with the usual wornout response.

 

 

[IAMHERE]

1 hour ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

There is usually no statute of limitations for MURDER and there shouldn't be. This old Nazi deserves no mercy.

Seems the Japanese got a pass on all their misdeeds though.

[geriatrickid]

1 hour ago, jaidam said:

Surely this must have passed a statute of limitations? Whatever crimes this man may or may not have had some peripheral involvement with occurred over 70 years ago. Talk about bearing a grudge, let's just let this old guy live out his last days with the miminal of stressful intrusion by media and judicial forces. The time to act was of course 70 odd years ago.

 The guys alledged crimes are of even less significance in modern times, where depending on your ideological viewpoint, mass murder is easily justified so long as the murdered do not share the same vile ideology. Why would one murder be PC and justified and another deemed evil worth hounding the guy for 70 years over. I don't get it. All murder is bad, or none is bad, not some is OK depending on faith bla bla.

 

It is not a grudge to see justice done. The man was able to hide from justice. His lawyers dragged out the case. In previous years, charges were intentionally suppressed.  He was aided by people like you who say we should forgive and forget. He should have been executed decades ago, but was able to run out the clock. You know nothing about this prick do you?  One volunteered for the SS. This wasn't some misguided kid who was conscripted.

 

The crimes he participated in are just as relevant today as they were when  he committed them. It is not hounding to ensure that a murderer is brought to trial. If you were  forcibly removed from your home, had everything you owned confiscated , were sent to a slave labour camp where you  lived out your final days hearing the  cries of women raped,  children  beaten to death and choked on the smoke of burning bodies, you might have a different view.

 

The fact that you would seek to defend this war criminal speaks to a moral bankruptcy. TVF certainly has a large number of nazi sympathizers and supporters. Fortunately, none are young which suggests that there is hope for the world yet.

[Ulysses G.]

7 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

Seems the Japanese got a pass on all their misdeeds though.

 Not completely, Thousands were executed or imprisoned. However, many did escape justice.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[xineohp]

15 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

 

It is not a grudge to see justice done. The man was able to hide from justice. His lawyers dragged out the case. In previous years, charges were intentionally suppressed.  He was aided by people like you who say we should forgive and forget. He should have been executed decades ago, but was able to run out the clock. You know nothing about this prick do you?  One volunteered for the SS. This wasn't some misguided kid who was conscripted.

 

The crimes he participated in are just as relevant today as they were when  he committed them. It is not hounding to ensure that a murderer is brought to trial. If you were  forcibly removed from your home, had everything you owned confiscated , were sent to a slave labour camp where you  lived out your final days hearing the  cries of women raped,  children  beaten to death and choked on the smoke of burning bodies, you might have a different view.

 

The fact that you would seek to defend this war criminal speaks to a moral bankruptcy. TVF certainly has a large number of nazi sympathizers and supporters. Fortunately, none are young which suggests that there is hope for the world yet.

 

3 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

You sure do spend a lot of time defending Islamic terrorists and the SS. 

Nowhere near the amount of time you spend on this forum in all matters Israeli / Jewish.

Your statement is patently incorrect as this is my first posting relevant anything concerning SS.

Once again short on facts but long on retoric.

Now you just can't help yourself at always wating to get in the last word so we'll see how long it takes.

 

[Fookhaht]

34 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

Seems the Japanese got a pass on all their misdeeds though.

"...pass on ALL their misdeeds?"  

You are embarrassingly ignorant of the history of the USA occupation of Japan and the highly-publicized war crime trials of Japanese who were tried because they instigated or contributed to the war effort.  Most were subsequently executed.   The Japanese emperor, Hirohito, was spared only because he agreed with General MacArthur to be the poster-boy for cooperating with the occupying forces.  

Edited September 13, 2016 by Fookhaht

[Ulic]

Probably the last as they are all old men. No statute of limitations on murder. The cases have

been dragged out for years and years so I have no sympathy because of these delaying tactics.

Justice delayed may be justice denied but better late than never.

[seedy]

Off Topic posts Removed. The religion of Islam - to my knowledge - had nothing to do with the Nazi party in Germany.

[Pakboong]

I'm a bit curious as to how the prosecution came up with the number 3,681. Most of us know that the Germans are in general accurate records keepers and their records for that period were recovered from the Soviet archives after the wall came down in the early 90s.

 

German records recovered from the Soviets indicate 63,394 Jews arrived in Auschwitz in 1944  and 99,888 were transferred out to include the entire Frank family also mentioned in the OP.

 

killed by typhus in 1944:   11,307 (45,189) for the 5 years of major operation of the camp

 

Killed by medical issues other than typhus: 1,357  (4,140 total for the same 5 years)

 

There were 1.646 inmates  executed during this same 5 year period. 1,485 Poles, 117 Jews, 19 Russians, 5 Czechs and 20 Gypsies.

 

German records regarding Hungarian Jews transfered in during 1944 at 23,117 and 21,527 were transferred out leaving 1,590 in the camp after October 1944. 

 

The count for Hungarian Jews being transferred in if taken from Lucy Dawidowicz,s "The War Against the Jews" (New York 1975) was 450,000 and the number indicated n Raul Hilburg's "The Destruction of the European Jews,"( New York 1985) is 180,000. It goes without saying that there is a huge difference in these numbers that need explanation. We know that the original plaque placed on the Auschwitz entrance was that 4 million died. In the early 90s, the number was revised to 1.5 million. The million dollar question is why was the number revised to 1.5 million?

 

I am not German but I am at peace with the German record for Hungarian Jews transferred in being 23,117. It is a no-brainer that world Jewry would rather use the Lucy Dawidowicz's 450,000.

 

It looks like the number this Nazi is charged with was some how extracted from the Hungarian Jews of 1944.

The total number of Non-Jews in Auschwitz, 1940 to 1944 was indicated at 161,785.

 

It seldom gets a mention that over 40,000 of the inmates died after the camps were liberated

[bark]

2 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

The Chinese have not moved on, because the Chinese people are unaware of what Mao and his Red Guards did. Do you think they teach that type of history in China? Seriously? One of the reasons why the Chinese   have no problem of laying waste to forests, of mass executions of harvesting the organs of the  "condemned" etc., is because the country never addressed its sins.  Do you know why Germany is super power now? It is because it took a long hard look at itself and made an effort to improve. Germany has moved on because it confronted its past. It hasn't repeated its sins  has it? China has.

 

BTW, Hitler killed far more than 6 million. Allied POWs  ended up in concentration camps too. Whole villages of occupied countries were wiped out. You could use  a history lesson, or perhaps you believe the destruction of countries like Poland was an exercise in  urban planning?

 

I agree with everything you said.

Anyone who thinks that this Nazi pig should not be tried, convicted and executed; is not a human being.

Germany caused a world war in which 40 million people died.

I have nothing against the German people; but anyone who was involved with the SS or the Nazi's should be brought in and and executed. It does matter about high blood pressure. If they have a pulse , they should killed. 95 years old or 110, kill then all.

[TEFLKrabi]

3 hours ago, car720 said:

Hitler killed 6  million whilst Mao killed 45 million yet we seldom hear a word about this.  The Chinese people have moved on.

Just saying...................perhaps it is time the rest of the world also moved on.

 

Also I cannot help wonder what profession the prosecutors will pursue when all the nazis are gone.

 

Hopefully they'll be free to pursue Bush and Blair for similar crimes

[elgordo38]

3 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

Seems the Japanese got a pass on all their misdeeds though.

They to learned from their past as they have time and again condemned nuclear weapons. If you go back far enough in history you will find that Christians killed more people than all the modern wars combined. 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, bark said:

I agree with everything you said.

Anyone who thinks that this Nazi pig should not be tried, convicted and executed; is not a human being.

Germany caused a world war in which 40 million people died.

I have nothing against the German people; but anyone who was involved with the SS or the Nazi's should be brought in and and executed. It does matter about high blood pressure. If they have a pulse , they should killed. 95 years old or 110, kill then all.

 

How nice

[bark]

8 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

How nice

Sorry dude, but I guess you don't know anyone who died fighting in WW2.

I guess you are ok, that this persons actions ?

If it wasn't for our parents, uncles, grand parents; you would be speaking German.

I guess you also do not stand up, for your home country.

I guess you must be from France.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, Pakboong said:

...

I am not German but I am at peace with the German record for Hungarian Jews transferred in being 23,117. It is a no-brainer that world Jewry would rather use the Lucy Dawidowicz's 450,000.
...

 So according to your conspiracy theory POV, the Germans must be right, those Jews must be wrong. Typical. I consider your entire post a sickening example of holocaust denial Lite, written to fool naive people that the intentions are neutral.

 

 

 

 

[Humberstone]

57 minutes ago, bark said:

Sorry dude, but I guess you don't know anyone who died fighting in WW2.

I guess you are ok, that this persons actions ?

If it wasn't for our parents, uncles, grand parents; you would be speaking German.

I guess you also do not stand up, for your home country.

I guess you must be from France.

 

You must be Russian then ?

[jcsmith]

3 hours ago, TEFLKrabi said:

 

Hopefully they'll be free to pursue Bush and Blair for similar crimes

 

The nazis were burning people alive, using them for slave labor.  In what way were their crimes similar? I'm against things like what happened in Guantanamo Bay, but let's not pretend that is anything at all like what happened in Auschwitz.

Edited September 13, 2016 by jcsmith

[xineohp]

It would appear from some of the outlandish, juvenile and personally abusive posts that are currently displayed, the moderators are on holiday.

[khunken]

50 minutes ago, jcsmith said:

 

The nazis were burning people alive, using them for slave labor.  In what way were their crimes similar? I'm against things like what happened in Guantanamo Bay, but let's not pretend that is anything at all like what happened in Auschwitz.

 

It's not what happened in Gitmo but in Abu Graib and all the various rendition 'camps' in places like Syria, Egypt & Thailand. I strongly suspect the torture & death was just as bad as Auschwitz but not in the same numbers.

 

Unfortunately nowadays it's the little guy who takes the heat not the warmongering, bombing & mass killing high-ups.

[GarryP]

I just wonder how many of the rank and file would dare to refuse to follow orders, whether that be turning on the gas taps, forcing people into cages, or assisting with conducting inhumane experiments on prisoners, if the result would be locking up in the same conditions as the prisoners, hard labour or even death.  

 

What many of the lower ranks did was most definitely wrong even though they were following orders, but how many of the posters here or people trying the cases would have done exactly the same in those conditions.  People commit atrocities when the conditions give them little option. 

 

However, I hope what happened remains a lesson for many generations to learn from so that those kind of conditions are never allowed to return.  These trials keep it in the public eye which cannot be bad.

 

In any case, I cannot comprehend how they could do what they did. It seems so horrendous so evil beyond belief. I just hope that if I were in the same position I would dare to refuse to follow orders, but somehow I doubt it.   

[SheungWan]

48 minutes ago, khunken said:

 

It's not what happened in Gitmo but in Abu Graib and all the various rendition 'camps' in places like Syria, Egypt & Thailand. I strongly suspect the torture & death was just as bad as Auschwitz but not in the same numbers.

 

Unfortunately nowadays it's the little guy who takes the heat not the warmongering, bombing & mass killing high-ups.

 

You 'suspect'. A little study of history would help instead of lazy assumptions.

Edited September 13, 2016 by SheungWan

[SheungWan]

53 minutes ago, car720 said:

 

I never hear anything in China of a vendetta aimed at bringing to justice all of those involved in Mao's dirty work.

The Chinese would see no profit in it.  Just not good business.

 

You 'never hear anything in China'. The mind just boggles at the shallowness of this remark.

[SheungWan]

5 hours ago, seedy said:

Off Topic posts Removed. The religion of Islam - to my knowledge - had nothing to do with the Nazi party in Germany.

 

The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem might have argued otherwise.