what do you do if you are too old to get insurance?

[curtklay]

13 hours ago, elliottm said:

Give up whoring (at your age) and use your home country health care?

Give up whoring???

I'd rather be dead!

[kannot]

15 hours ago, Moonlover said:

There is the old saying 'Prevention is better than cure'. I take that proverb quite seriously, when it comes to this topic. No one will offer me insurance now as I'm post 70, so I take matters into my own hands.

 

Taking care of oneself through regular exercise, watching one's weight and eating healthily are, for me the key ingredients in keeping away from the doctor's office. I also meditate daily and monitor my blood pressure regularly.

 

One of the big threats to health here is alcohol and it can very difficult to avoid at times. It is in the culture,of  both falangs and Thais. I've been horrified by the amount of drinking that takes place among the Thai community and the adverse affect it has on their health.

 

Many of my wife's friends and relatives, from the village have succumbed at an early age due to renal failure, directly attributable to alcohol. We haven't taken the pledge completely, but we both now strictly limit our intake.

 

At the end of the day, we are responsible for our own health. Doctors and hospitals only have an interest in sick people, not healthy ones.

 

I thoroughly recommend the website 'webmd' as a useful guide to healthy living. And if you are so minded, look up Dr. Walter Bortz - 'Dare to be 100' on YouTube. It is very interesting.

 

Stay healthy, live well.

 

u should meet my friend "John" he took care what he ate was slim, walked 15-20 miles regularly every week and 3 miles daily, didnt drink, smoke, had some pains at work..............had heart attack and found to also have diabetes, had stents put in............ now  been off work for 3  months............hes 48.

Or my life long friend and his ex  twin who found out when one of them died suddenly at 52  they had  a problem with their bodies getting rid of cholestrol ( inherited) and died  instantly  a year or so ago, he was a keen cyclist regularly doing 100 mile rides  weekly, again non drinking smoking and ate carefully. His twin has had 3  heart attacks and is  now full of stents.

How much role do your  genes  play, i think it must be quite large and you cant change those anytime soon.

Edited September 16, 2016 by kannot

[berybert]

Why do so many people spend so much time on worrying about being ill ?

[impulse]

1 hour ago, berybert said:

Why do so many people spend so much time on worrying about being ill ?

 

Perhaps it's to prevent spending even more time worrying about how we're going to pay for food, shelter and clothing for the next 20 years when we're bankrupted in retirement by a health issue?

 

Edited September 16, 2016 by impulse

[meatboy]

23 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I've been "self insuring" for more than twelve years and it's worked well for me and I intend to continue to do so, I will review each health related scenario that emerges and take a view at that time. Most likely I will continue to use the doctors and hospitals I know well, for the larger things I have no problems using the Provincial Hospital here, I've seen them in action several times and I'm impressed. I suggest that if you are going to do the same that you should get over any reluctance or stigma associated with provincial hospitals first.

as i have form going back to 2002,i started putting 100,000bht.away every yr. in 2008.

i am past 70,but this yr.i have had 2hospital stays [gov] 6days in total,ct.scans,x-rays,private room ect,toal cost 18,000bht.so far i am in front.just hope thats it,then its only the visit to the temple.

the treatment i recieved at my chosen hospital i cannot faulter.  THEPERAT KORAT.

[soalbundy]

It doesn't matter if you run 10 km or 100 km when you get to the finish line all is forgotten

[akentryan]

Still pay for Medicare in the USA and my supplemental from a former union. If it is not a major event I pay for it here and get reimbursed for about 70% of my costs. Same goes for medicine. Get the latter by mail from Fascino in BKK and in addition save about 30%. Just had to have my Pacemaker replaced. The cost was estimated at $15,000 and my supplemental would have covered all but $5,500 if I had it done here. Opted for the USA where it cost zero. Have family that I am able to stay with so costs are minimal. Re saving where you can I just saw an ENT doctor at Pattaya Memorial and my cost was 250 baht mostly for vital signs. PMH did not have the equipment needed so Doc took the time to write a note for me to take to BHP. Got treated there at a cost of 1,700 baht.  Still need a cardio doctor at BHP as the Medtronic Pacemake tech only comes to BHP to do readings. Need an INR periodically to check if blood thinner level is aqppropriate. Cost 800 baht at BHP but only 350 baht at a lab on Naklua Road.

There remains insurance for the elderly up to about age 70. It will be expensive and will likely come with a lot of exclusions for pre-existing conditions.

The last experience I had at BHP was my wife in ICU at a cost of 45,000 baht a day. Certainly not cheap anymore.

[mania]

In the last 5-10 years Thailand has become more than just the bad boy playground it was always known for.

 

These past years has seen so many travel mags & others list places like Chiang Mai as one of the top 10 retirement destinations

 

As such ChiangMai & Thailand in general I think has seen a boost in expats retiring.

But this health insurance deal has been well documented many times here on TVF

Many are doing fine then a yearly increase puts it out of reach

 

Yes some have the funds to safely self insure...but many more do not

As those who do not eventually are priced out of buying they take the often told chance of

staying well till they are not then can always go home right? (back to origin country for free care)

 

Yes & no....if something is diagnosed then yes you may have time to retreat to a western country

If instead your taken in while unconscious it is a different matter isn't it?

 

Yes before the stool sitter say it who cares...yes who?...They had their fun their done who cares ? Right?

I think in the coming years due to increasing expat population & as more & more leave with a checks unpaid or unable to pay + funeral/body disposal costs....

we will see some changes in  Immigration requirements for yearly extensions. Because They will care if they/Thailand are the ones getting

stuck with the bills

 

It will probably be something to do with having suitable insurance or no extension

Maybe the 400-800,000 baht renewal bank amounts will need to be frozen in lieu of insurance?

But really that is not enough for anything more than a day or two of a  real emergency care

This is just my guess but we will see.

 

 

Edited September 17, 2016 by mania

[johnnybgood]

21 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

Exactly. You've hit the nail on head. Return to Blighty is the best possible solution. Many, in fact, wisely don't wait for the health insurance issue to arise. Fortunately we have lots of helpful threads on the forum about moving back to the UK. Hart in Hampshire looks lovely, no cesspool that: Best places to live in the UK: Hart in Hampshire tops list for the fifth year in a row.

 

20 hours ago, USNret said:

 

Why not leave now? You sound very unhappy here. It's not worth staying in a place you despise. 

What has your posts got to do with the original question? 

BTW Since you seem interested ........... I'm healthy wealthy and wise with more than one house to call home thanks .

[jippytum]

I have had medical insurance here for thirty years .My premium is 68,000 baht and increasing .If you create a standby medical account with say 800.000 to start and if you have no medical outlay during that year add to it every year . You can the use it also for a retirement visa extension . However without any provision for medical expenses you will have to rely on Thai charity ....good luck with that in an emergency .

[Jeffrey346]

13 hours ago, drummer boy said:

Hi terry you are right i am married to a goverment woman but she is a officer The workers only get insurance not for there husbands thats why i am covered lucky me it also covers her two sons untill they are 20yrs old !

That's not true.. All directly employed Gov workers and their family are covered at no cost. 

My wife works for the revenue dept and I have the same medical benefits as she has..

Her parents are covered and 2 children to age 22..

 

When you say workers, Are you referring to contract employees? If so they get no benefits.. 

[lopburi3]

For anyone depending on the low price of government hospitals - this may be a viable option for minor illness and treatments but for major surgery there is likely to be a long queue wait - which could be a life or death choice.

 

A few months ago I was strongly advised to use a government hospital for major cancer surgery - initial wait was about 10 weeks - prepaid and then 4 nights in very uncomfortable 25 person open ward (could not apply to pay for private room until after operation) getting ready for operation (bowel cleaning) - then told on the OR that operation canceled due non availability of ICU room to be told next appointment would be 3 months later.  Visit to private hospital 'why did you wait so long' and 'what day do you want operation'.  Good results and fast growing cancer biopsy indicated all removed.  More time could have been costly.

 

Just want to point out it can be more than a comfort issue when wait times are required - this no wait is the main attraction of Thailand private hospital care and might be worth while paying extra now if insurance is available.  In my case I had insurance so final price was the same at either facility - so this was on me. 

Edited September 17, 2016 by lopburi3

[Jeffrey346]

3 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

For anyone depending on the low price of government hospitals - this may be a viable option for minor illness and treatments but for major surgery there is likely to be a long queue wait - which could be a life or death choice.

 

A few months ago I was strongly advised to use a government hospital for major cancer surgery - initial wait was about 10 weeks - prepaid and then 4 nights in very uncomfortable 80 person open ward (could not apply to pay for private room until after operation) getting ready for operation (bowel cleaning) - then told on the OR that operation canceled due non availability of ICU room to be told next appointment would be 3 months later.  Visit to private hospital 'why did you wait so long' and 'what day do you want operation'.  Good results and fast growing cancer biopsy indicated all removed.  More time could have been costly.

 

Just want to point out it can be more than a comfort issue when wait times are required - this no wait is the main attraction of Thailand private hospital care and might be worth while paying extra now if insurance is available.  In my case I had insurance so final price was the same at either facility - so this was on me. 

Not true ... People come from all over the NE to Princess Heart Hospital in Khon Kaen as it is recognised as one of the best cardiac hospitals in Thailand..

I had a heart attack 1 year ago. Had a stent put in. The care was and is as good as any private hospital I have gone too. I go for follow up  visits every 2 months and to pick up my meds.. Most Gov hospitals have the private clinic program which I have used at Princess and Khon Kaen Hospital. You simply pay a co-pay [in my case B250.] and you're not out in the general population with those long Q waiting times..

If you understand the system, the experience can be as pleasant as possible considering your in a hospital...

[Gary A]

15 hours ago, drummer boy said:

You are a very lucky man gary where do you live and what hospital was that i would think every body would like to know i had one night in hospital before i married a goverment lady in pattaya that cost me 22000baht !

 

I live in Nong Hin, Loei province. Nong Hin now has a new small hospital. Loei has a fairly new large hospital and they are adding on again.

 

ADDED - A local young Thai man had a brain tumor. It blinded him. Loei hospital did not have the facilities to do the surgery and sent him to Khon Kaen for the surgery. The young man came through the surgery and has his vision back.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Gary A

[lopburi3]

1 hour ago, Jeffrey346 said:

Not true ... People come from all over the NE to Princess Heart Hospital in Khon Kaen as it is recognised as one of the best cardiac hospitals in Thailand..

I had a heart attack 1 year ago. Had a stent put in. The care was and is as good as any private hospital I have gone too. I go for follow up  visits every 2 months and to pick up my meds.. Most Gov hospitals have the private clinic program which I have used at Princess and Khon Kaen Hospital. You simply pay a co-pay [in my case B250.] and you're not out in the general population with those long Q waiting times..

If you understand the system, the experience can be as pleasant as possible considering your in a hospital...

I posted a factual report of my recent experience and you say "not true"?  Indeed it was all too true; and all services were being paid for.

[Moonlover]

10 hours ago, kannot said:

u should meet my friend "John" he took care what he ate was slim, walked 15-20 miles regularly every week and 3 miles daily, didnt drink, smoke, had some pains at work..............had heart attack and found to also have diabetes, had stents put in............ now  been off work for 3  months............hes 48.

Or my life long friend and his ex  twin who found out when one of them died suddenly at 52  they had  a problem with their bodies getting rid of cholestrol ( inherited) and died  instantly  a year or so ago, he was a keen cyclist regularly doing 100 mile rides  weekly, again non drinking smoking and ate carefully. His twin has had 3  heart attacks and is  now full of stents.

How much role do your  genes  play, i think it must be quite large and you cant change those anytime soon.

Kannot. There are exceptions to every rule, every scenario and every expectation.

 

That's an interesting example that you have presented us with about regarding the twins. However if you watch the video I referred to by Dr. Bortz, you will hear him talk about the research carried on twins that have indicated the opposite of what you infer. The evidence is that your gene inheritance has little to do with longevity.

 

But don't believe me, go look for yourself.
 

And just for info, I haven't always been a 'goody two shoes'. I took no interest in fitness until I was 35. I smoked heavily until I was 45 and I drank a little too much until quite recently.

[soalbundy]

16 hours ago, curtklay said:

Give up whoring???

I'd rather be dead!

If that is your main interest in life you already are

[MahasarakhamMitch]

I'll have to take a chance and hope for the best.

[mania]

11 hours ago, MahasarakhamMitch said:

I'll have to take a chance and hope for the best.

 

 

Not to single you out....But I had mentioned this, answer you gave is the common response of many.

Also why I think after a few hundred expats expire leaving Thailand holding the bill Thailand Immigration will enact

some sort of safeguard to protect themselves .

Edited September 17, 2016 by mania

[scorecard]

Among the many foreigners here it's obvious there are many different configurations of paid health cover and some have no cover, because they unfortunately can't support coverage and some regardless of ability to pay. Personal choice. 

 

I have a different picture - I am entitled to health cover because of war service. If I return to my original country I have total health cover for everything either in a veterans hospital or in any hospital, without limits and priority treatment. All billed directly to the government. 

 

I pay cash for treatment at some Thai hospitals and promptly get reimbursed by deposit into a bank account at home, and at some Thai hospitals they bill direct to the gov't dept., at home.  

[soalbundy]

become a monk, you are insured then

[Moonlover]

8 hours ago, mania said:

 

 

Not to single you out....But I had mentioned this, answer you gave is the common response of many.

Also why I think after a few hundred expats expire leaving Thailand holding the bill Thailand Immigration will enact

some sort of safeguard to protect themselves .

 

Firstly, I would doubt that Immigration would worry too much about these costs. The amount of money coming into the country via expat residents would more that cover the small costs involved of disposing of a few unfortunates.

 

However, for those who do have a conscience regarding this matter. there is a solution. Insurance companies do offer term or whole life policies. I bought one through FWD which will pay out 150,000 THB on death or at the end of ten years if I make it. It's not a big sum, but does mean my wife doesn't have fork out to have me cremated. But you do have to be under 70 at inception. I just managed squeeze through the closing door!

 

There is also an optional hospital fee coverage with it. It's not health insurance, but it does offset the costs of a hospital stay. And they do honour it, They paid out when I was getting my broken leg sorted.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Moonlover

[sirineou]

How many different ways is there of saying the same thing.

Unless you are rich enough to self insure, you either go home  or stay here and die if you get sick.

That's why I always say. Dont burn your bridges with your home country. Thailand is not your country, we are all guests here, we could be asked, or made by circumstances to leave at any time, and what then.

[mania]

11 hours ago, Moonlover said:

 

Firstly, I would doubt that Immigration would worry too much about these costs. The amount of money coming into the country via expat residents would more that cover the small costs involved of disposing of a few unfortunates.

 

However, for those who do have a conscience regarding this matter. there is a solution. Insurance companies do offer term or whole life policies. I bought one through FWD which will pay out 150,000 THB on death or at the end of ten years if I make it. It's not a big sum, but does mean my wife doesn't have fork out to have me cremated. But you do have to be under 70 at inception. I just managed squeeze through the closing door!

 

There is also an optional hospital fee coverage with it. It's not health insurance, but it does offset the costs of a hospital stay. And they do honour it, They paid out when I was getting my broken leg sorted.

 

Well that may be true if all those expats you mention only need " the small costs involved of disposing of a few unfortunates. "

Meaning they just pop into a hospital & drop dead,or die at home, but anyone who has has anything more than a minor problem needing attention, whether thru accident or illness knows how fast

the bill can rise.

 

150k may help your wife pay for your cremation but if your laid up in a hospital for a week or more prior to departure

it will be a drop in the bucket.

 

Edited September 18, 2016 by mania

[cyberfarang]

On 16/09/2016 at 9:20 AM, Deepinthailand said:

I have come to Thailand to retire(eventually 1 year to go) and live out what's left of my life in peace. I have built everything I need for retirement a house with no stairs. A few others (Houses) for a modest income for my wife of course. I don't worry about getting ill if it happens it happens. So I don't worry about costs of getting ill otherwise I would do 2 things.

1. Make myself I'll with the worry and stress associated with it.

2. Not enjoy what I came here to do retire and relax.

I have an insurance which covers me for illness which I have had for about 15 yrs and I'm told by them if I keep paying for it it will go on till I'm 85 then I get 5 years free.. If of course I decided to keep on paying through the nose for it. That is something I alone will revisit when I retire. Goverment hospitals are not expensive, some people turn there noses up at them that's there choice all the dealings I've had with family at goverment hospital have been very good and not expensive. So I may decide to go down that route. If I end up with a disease that is going to claim me 12 or 18 mths down the line before it gets to much there are things I can do.

Insurance or no insurance is up to individual choice. 

I have read that many medical insurance companies will not accept the over 60s or those who have pre-health problems.

 

The insurance companies that will accommodate the over 60s, policy holders can expect to pay 25000 baht a month premiums, increasing steadily each year with age. If a policy holder suffers serious long term health problems during the period of insurance coverage, the company will either terminate the policy or increase the premiums substantially. 

 

Please could you tell us who you are insured with and how much your premiums cost each month?

[thaibeachlovers]

Thanks for many replies that addressed the OP.

[Sheryl]

16 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

I have read that many medical insurance companies will not accept the over 60s or those who have pre-health problems.

 

The insurance companies that will accommodate the over 60s, policy holders can expect to pay 25000 baht a month premiums, increasing steadily each year with age. If a policy holder suffers serious long term health problems during the period of insurance coverage, the company will either terminate the policy or increase the premiums substantially. 

 

 

There are a number of European-based insurers who will insure people not only over 60 but over 70, some even over 80 or 90.

 

And policies issued in Europe generally have clauses which prevent them from terminating your policy without due cause (as specified in the policy, e.g. non-payment of premiums or fraud in the initial application) and also from raising rates based on claims. If health insurance worked the way you describe it would be pointless to have. The entire health coverage system of several European  countries works entirely through private health insurance and works well.

 

There will, of course, be rate increases based on age. However the amount you mention (25,000 baht a month for someone in their 60's) is a considerable exaggeration.  If the coverage is in-patient only (as I would suggest) then  someone aged early 60's who shops around a bit can get cover without  excess for a little under half tat amount, and could bring the cost down to about 8,000 baht by accepting a small excess and some copays (up to a limit out of pocket). Still not cheap, of course, and will continue to rise as one ages, but the cost is not onfthe magnitude you describe.

[augustwest]

Marry a rich Thai who's son is a doctor. That's what I did.

[Moonlover]

19 hours ago, mania said:

19 hours ago, mania said:

 

Well that may be true if all those expats you mention only need " the small costs involved of disposing of a few unfortunates. "

Meaning they just pop into a hospital & drop dead,or die at home, but anyone who has has anything more than a minor problem needing attention, whether thru accident or illness knows how fast

the bill can rise.

 

150k may help your wife pay for your cremation but if your laid up in a hospital for a week or more prior to departure

it will be a drop in the bucket.

 

 

19 hours ago, mania said:

 

Well that may be true if all those expats you mention only need " the small costs involved of disposing of a few unfortunates. "

Meaning they just pop into a hospital & drop dead,or die at home, but anyone who has has anything more than a minor problem needing attention, whether thru accident or illness knows how fast

the bill can rise.

 

150k may help your wife pay for your cremation but if your laid up in a hospital for a week or more prior to departure

it will be a drop in the bucket.

 

Well that may be true if all those expats you mention only need " the small costs involved of disposing of a few unfortunates. "

Meaning they just pop into a hospital & drop dead,or die at home, but anyone who has has anything more than a minor problem needing attention, whether thru accident or illness knows how fast

the bill can rise.

 

150k may help your wife pay for your cremation but if your laid up in a hospital for a week or more prior to departure

it will be a drop in the bucket.

 

 

I do acknowledge what you're saying Mania. And as I've already mentioned, I have already had the experience of a hospital stay, so I know what you mean!

 

However, let us not forget the original question.  'What do you do if you are too old to get insurance?'. I am simply offering up one of the, Albeit  limited, options available to the OP.

 

I am not suggesting that it is, by any means, a 'fix all solution'.

 

Edited September 19, 2016 by Moonlover

[Moonlover]

15 hours ago, Moonlover said:

 

I do acknowledge what you're saying Mania. And as I've already mentioned, I have already had the experience of a hospital stay, so I know what you mean!

 

However, let us not forget the original question.  'What do you do if you are too old to get insurance?'. I am simply offering up one of the, Albeit  limited, options available to the OP.

 

I am not suggesting that it is, by any means, a 'fix all solution'.

 

I had decided to close out on this topic, but two points come to mind. Firstly the endowment I mentioned. I'll put out a reminder. There is a hospital fees 'add on' option which one can sign up for. Should Mania's worst case scenario occur. In addition to the lump sum pay out, hospital fees are covered as well.

 

Second item which I think is important is the provision of a 'living will' or 'advance directive' as I've seen them called. I for one do not wish my demise to be delayed in the event of a none recoverable situation. A stroke or severe brain damage for instance. I want a full life or no life thank you very much. My wife has one in the 'emergency pack' That I have made up for her.