Six years a squatter - The long legal battle of Julian Assange

[jcsmith]

10 hours ago, Kabula said:

I remember a time when all persons were, 'not guilty,'  until investigated, charged, and sentenced by a jury.

 

I miss all the freedoms most of the citizens of world once had.

 

It's all about negatives today and very little positive content.

 

 

 

I think that is still the case in most of the free world. However, Julian Assange has sought asylum rather than facing this for many years now. 

[Nasrullah]

Each government has long said and held that Assange got his hands on vital national security information that did

enormous damage to each country.

 

 

 

I would say the damage done was IN the 'vital national security information' itself,rather than it's public airing from assange 

[Nasrullah]

40 minutes ago, Publicus said:

The guy did an absolute no-no. Snowden too.

@Publicus...............Doesn't make it right for just being a no-no

[Mojomor]

He is not a squatter, but rather an asylum seeker, which he seems to have achieved.

 

Personally I think he did us a great service, as did Mr Snowden.

 

These guys deserve our thanks, for showing us, how our governments spy on us.   

[Publicus]

33 minutes ago, Nasrullah said:

@Publicus...............Doesn't make it right for just being a no-no

 

The boy spy Snowden and the dizzy computer geek Assange decided to deal in apples and oranges. 

 

The NSA apples needed to take a bit out of 'em.

 

The oranges to the Dictators in Beijing and the mobsters running Moscow are the no-no. It is a matter of national security to give vital information to the enemy. It is qualitatively and significantly different from exposing one's own government to the citizens of one's own country with the appropriate corrective actions in mind and as the purpose and goal.

 

Giving vital national security information and intelligence data to the enemy is an absolute no-no and that is always true. Not ever accepted or allowed.

 

In this instance, apples are good but oranges are poison. 

[MahasarakhamMitch]

I know one thing for sure. I would rather be in an embassy in London than a supermax prison for the rest of my life. Those supermax prisons must be a living hell.

[Publicus]

Just now, MahasarakhamMitch said:

I know one thing for sure. I would rather be in an embassy in London than a supermax prison for the rest of my life. Those supermax prisons must be a living hell.

 

If Assange might find himself in the United States and at the mercy of the US Government, it's highly unlikely he'd go to the federal prison complex at the US Army installation Ft. Leavenworth, Kansas.

 

He'd likely have to post some kind of bond or collateral that he just won't do this again. Nothing like it. Assange is after all a sort of publisher and hybrid journalist. 

 

He would be liable however for charges of criminal conspiracy and unauthorised receipt of vital national security and intelligence information/data. It is conceivable Assange in the US criminal justice system could be convicted but get probation of something like ten years in lieu of prison time. Or some prison time but not much of it.

 

Maybe Assange should just get it done and over with.

[Xircal]

14 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

He broke laws, plain and simple.  And now is using this "they're coming after me!" defense.  Be a man, go to Sweden, and sort things out.  Easy.  But sadly, makes for great conspiracy theories.

 

 

Chelsea Manning who supplied the documents Wikileaks published was sentenced to 35 years in the slammer.  I think Assange doesn't want to risk the same fate. Can't blame him for that.

[Publicus]

1 minute ago, Xircal said:

 

Chelsea Manning who supplied the documents Wikileaks published was sentenced to 35 years in the slammer.  I think Assange doesn't want to risk the same fate. Can't blame him for that.

 

Manning is a US citizen and, moreover, was in the Army which made her subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice which governs the conduct and behaviors of all US military personnel 24/7.

 

Assange is not a citizen and is some kind of hybrid publisher and self-defined journalist, so he wouldn't get a double digit sentence in years. US law mandates that a Chelsea Manning gets decades in prison and not just years.

 

While Assange has pro bono lawyers, they are first rate so I'd work from the assumption the legal eagles he has know the laws in the particular countries, the likelihood of processes and outcomes among 'em, and are advising Assange accordingly.

[Xircal]

18 minutes ago, Publicus said:

While Assange has pro bono lawyers, they are first rate so I'd work from the assumption the legal eagles he has know the laws in the particular countries, the likelihood of processes and outcomes among 'em, and are advising Assange accordingly.

 

That's probably why he's staying put where he is now.

[Publicus]

Yep which makes it meaningful to note the applicability of the Swedish statute Assange is believed to have violated expires in 2020. Only then could he absolutely escape being charged.

 

Gives a new meaning to the expression 'four more years'.

[craigt3365]

10 hours ago, Chris Lawrence said:

Craig what is the quantifiable loss by the US? This should be well documented by now. I see that you took 24 posts before u hopped on the Sweden charge of rape which was in the OP. 

 

Kid, as I understand there are laws in Sweden if Assange is convicted would be transported to the US. Once in the US he would have no chance of a proper defence. I can understand the concern but what would be in the pipeline doesn't back your concern. What would u do in his place?

 

The bottom line I think the crime done by Assange is that he has left influential Military types red faced, nothing all.

I guess if Manning is in jail, there was a crime committed.  Whether Assange is guilty of anything is left up to the courts.  As far as Sweden goes, it seems they've got a legit reason to question him.  There's a warrant out for him.  The UK is trying to honor that request, as they would hope Sweden would honor the same request if in reverse.  Not sure why so many can't see this.  Sure, there's a change he'll get extradited to the US.  He did publish confidential info.  He did so knowing he'd get in trouble for it.  Face the piper!

 

What would I have done?  I for sure would not have published confidential info.  Like he did for all those women in Turkey.  They didn't deserve that.  Shame on him.

[Ulic]

19 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

He apparently drugged and raped a woman. Obviously, you do not consider that to be a serious crime. Fortunately, the Swedish government does.

As I understand it he had unprotected consensual sex with two women (not a threesome) without informing the women about the other women. In Sweden this amounts to rape. Nothing to do with what most people consider to be rape.

 

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, Ulic said:

As I understand it he had unprotected consensual sex with two women (not a threesome) without informing the women about the other women. In Sweden this amounts to rape.  Nothing to do with what most people consider to be rape.

Seems the women don't agree it was consensual.  Thus, the allegations.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden

Quote

According to the statement, Miss A then realised he was trying to have unprotected sex with her. She told police that she had tried a number of times to reach for a condom but Assange had stopped her by holding her arms and pinning her legs. The statement records Miss A describing how Assange then released her arms and agreed to use a condom, but she told the police that at some stage Assange had "done something" with the condom that resulted in it becoming ripped, and ejaculated without withdrawing.

 

[stevenl]

15 hours ago, coma said:

 

Hang on a minute. You are saying that, and I quote "A person unauthorised to accept and receive confidential U.S. Government national security and intelligence documents is in violation of U.S. law".

 

 However Sweden are not trying to extradite Mr Assange on, as you put it "unauthorised to accept and receive confidential U.S. Government national security and intelligence documents" charges now are they? They are going after him on some BS trumped up rape charge. So your point in this particular instance is void.

 

Had it been any other guy in the world, the Swedish authorities would certainly not be going to these extremes to have him extradited from a foreign land. That fact in itself would surely be ringing alarm bells in Assange's ears. And rightly so in my opinion.

If I were the prosecutor and somebody so blatantly and publicly fled and humiliated me, I would do what i could to get him.

[NongKhaiKid]

11 minutes ago, stevenl said:

If I were the prosecutor and somebody so blatantly and publicly fled and humiliated me, I would do what i could to get him.

Let's remember too he jumped bail in London to seek sanctuary and that requires a court appearance to be explained. 

[impulse]

1 minute ago, craigt3365 said:

Understood, but this post is about him avoiding going back to Sweden to answer questions about a possible rape.  He's using excuses to avoid that.  Credible or not, they are still unverified excuses.

 

I honestly believe he'd be pleased to go back and answer to the Swedish charges.  If there were assurances that he wouldn't be bundled off next to the USA.  And he'd be an idiot to believe he won't.

 

Maybe not.  But I wouldn't bet the rest of MY life on it.

[craigt3365]

Interesting articles.  He's a strange person.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/222481-julian-assange-is-no-victim

 

http://gawker.com/5757325/julian-assange-has-at-least-four-love-children

[coma]

4 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Understood, but this post is about him avoiding going back to Sweden to answer questions about a possible rape.  He's using excuses to avoid that.  Credible or not, they are still unverified excuses.

 

Please Craig3365. Do you honestly think he is that concerned about potential rape charges in Sweden ? If that is all this is about, I am sure he would be dying to get back there and clear his name.

[Credo]

Assange is probably afraid of  a lot of things.   Most criminals, thieves and thugs spend a lot of time looking over their shoulder.

 

He is a gutless, spineless person who expects everyone to defend him.   

 

What a coward.

[craigt3365]

9 minutes ago, coma said:

 

Please Craig3365. Do you honestly think he is that concerned about potential rape charges in Sweden ? If that is all this is about, I am sure he would be dying to get back there and clear his name.

Understood!  But does that give him the right to avoid answering questions about these charges?  Maybe he'll be extradited, maybe he won't.  But man up.  Face the charges.  He created the mess.  Deal with it.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-is-mad-sad-and-bad-claims-ghost-writer-andrew-o-hagan-9146457.html

 

Quote

 

WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange is ‘mad, sad and bad’, claims ghost writer Andrew O’Hagan

O’Hagan was contracted to ghost write a memoir but the deal collapsed because Assange was 'mortified' by the idea of revealing his own secrets

..........

The account recorded Assange’s fear of being followed, spied upon and even killed because of his leaks. One day when the writer accompanied Assange to a police station Sarah Harrison – Assange’s assistant and girlfriend – got out of the car to check if anyone was in the nearby bushes. When O’Hagan asked if she was looking for paparazzi he was told, “Assassins.”

 

 

 

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, Credo said:

Assange is probably afraid of  a lot of things.   Most criminals, thieves and thugs spend a lot of time looking over their shoulder.

 

He is a gutless, spineless person who expects everyone to defend him.   

 

What a coward.

And yet many admire him.  Even after the crimes he's committed.  Like releasing info on women in Turkey.  Shame on him.

[SaintLouisBlues]

1 minute ago, craigt3365 said:

And yet many admire him.  Even after the crimes he's committed.  Like releasing info on women in Turkey.  Shame on him.

You can admire someone without approving every single one of their acts, surely? It's an "on balance" thing, isn't it?

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.  

[tracker]

Law versus moral compass.... it will go on and on...

 

It's a shame i do not have a country, both assange and snowden would be welcome. 

 

[Cats4ever]

21 hours ago, Publicus said:

 

Assange accepted U.S. national security documents that were purloined. However, that the documents were purloined is additional to the fact that Assange is not authorised by U.S. laws to accept and receive anything related to national security to include intelligence information directly related and material to the U.S. national security.

 

In the act of accepting receipt of such documents, Assange violated U.S. national security laws, rules, regulations. The laws apply to anyone, anywhere, at any time under any such circumstance. That Assange violated U.S. national security laws and protocols on foreign soil is irrelevant and immaterial to his acts and circumstance, i.e., Assange is not authorised by U.S. law to do so. Assange is thus subject to extradition to the United States.

 

Neither is Assange a U.S. citizen nor is Wikileaks an institution of U.S. media protected by the First Amendment. U.S. media that published the Pentagon Papers in 1972 were protected under the First Amendment, and after the initial publication by the New York Times and then the Washington Post, thousands of U.S. media published the revealed Papers. The Supreme Court decided the matter in this way, exactly and precisely.

 

Speaking of courts, yesterday the appeals court of Sweden upheld the arrest warrant issued by Swedish authorities against Assange...

 

The news comes as a Swedish appeals court on Friday decided to uphold an arrest warrant for the Australian computer programmer, denying his latest attempt to make prosecutors drop a rape investigation from 2010.

 

"After reviewing the existing investigative material and what the parties have stated, the Court of Appeal finds that Julian Assange is still suspected on probable cause of rape," the ruling issued by a three-judge panel in Stockholm on Friday said, according to NBC News. "The Court of Appeal also shares the assessment of the District Court that there is still a risk that Julian Assange will flee."

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/swedish-court-upholds-arrest-warrant-julian-assange-163224634.html 

 

Flee.

 

Most likely to his good pal Putin in Russia. Putin-Assange-Wikileaks-Snowden. The Four Horsemen of Espionage Against the United States, to most recently include its political system.

So, American exceptionalism is still alive and well. American law knows no international boundaries. If I were Assange, I would be a little paranoid about going to Sweden, just in case they agree with your postulations. I don't know if your claims, in relation to them, are real or not; I don't propose to find out either, but if I were Assange I would be rightly careful. Read some of the information by his defence team, who are working gratis.

[AlexRRR]

22 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

You forget that   Assange ran away. He did his utmost to  prevent  the investigation. Assange was of the view that  his alleged drugging and raping of the woman was no one's business. Well, the Swedish police had a duty to investigate and to protect the  alleged victim. It is unfortunate that you do not believe that women are worthy of legal protection and that sexual assault is a wrongful act.

 

He had 2 rape charges on him at one stage one was eventually dropped as it was so flimsy the still current one isn't so strong either.....the real fact of the matter is....he will be held in Sweden on a return the Swedes are in bed with the US gov it will get dragged out to no end until the yanks can get the legals up to get him extradited...only Americans dont understand that every body else in the world do....

[geriatrickid]

14 hours ago, Nasrullah said:

He he ran from what the US was going to do to him for PUBLISHING not stealing info supplied by maning!

 

The swedish claims came after he was 'hung up' in the ecuadorian embassy.....

 

No.  Here are the UNDISPUTED established facts of the timeline.

 

- Assange is alleged to have raped and /or sexually assaulted a number of women over the years. In  August 2010, two women asserted that he sexually assaulted them.

- The Swedish authorities investigated at the time  and sought to question him.  Assange did not co-operate, as was his legal right not to do so. The initial questioning in August would have allowed the  claims to be dismissed if they  were as groundless as he claimed.

- After the investigation was complete in September,  the Swedish authorities sought  to  question Assange. His legal counsel contested the  investigation and delayed proceedings.

- The Swedish court in November 2010 determined that there was sufficient evidence to detain Assange to investigate the alleged sexual assault including rape.

- Assange was hiding out in the UK where he was arrested in December 2010.

- Sweden sought his extradition, which Assange's legal counsel contested. He eventually lost  his case. He was given bail. Assange then violated his bail conditions and sought refuge in the  embassy of Ecuador, a country hostile to the USA .

 

And when did the release of information occur?

- Wikileaks did not release any significant information detrimental to US national security until October/November 2010. The first major leak was in April 2010, of the Apache helicopter footage of a 2007 Iraq event. It was bad PR, but nothing else considering that on any given day the Iraqis were killing  and blowing each other up.  

- In July 2010, Wiki leaks released the "Afghan Diaries".  Again not much that wasn't already known in respect to the  systemic corruption of the Afghanis and the brutality of the Taliban and Afghan  tribes. What was of concern  was the naming of informants and allies. This release was alleged to have resulted in deaths and retaliation.

- The major release of national security related info was in October -November 2010, and it was mostly Iraq conflict related. This was then followed by the leaking of   confidential state department cables in  September 2011.

 

The most sensitive info was released after the alleged  sexual assaults occurred and after   the investigation was underway.

 

If you wish to defend an alleged sex offender and  rapist, that is your choice. However,  for those of us who respect women and understand the horrors of sexual assault, we stand in solidarity with oppressed women. My personal view is that he is a  sociopath serial sexual crime offender and that  wikileaks gives him an excuse to justify his  violent sexual assaults. He belongs in jail.

 

 

[craigt3365]

Just now, AlexRRR said:

 

He had 2 rape charges on him at one stage one was eventually dropped as it was so flimsy the still current one isn't so strong either.....the real fact of the matter is....he will be held in Sweden on a return the Swedes are in bed with the US gov it will get dragged out to no end until the yanks can get the legals up to get him extradited...only Americans dont understand that every body else in the world do....

One was dropped due to the statue of limitations expiring.  The other may be flimsy, that's why they only wanted to question him.  And yes, Americans understand he may be extradited.  For good reasons. 

[Publicus]

1 minute ago, tracker said:

Law versus moral compass.... it will go on and on...

 

It's a shame i do not have a country, both assange and snowden would be welcome. 

 

 

24 minutes ago, Cats4ever said:

So, American exceptionalism is still alive and well. American law knows no international boundaries. If I were Assange, I would be a little paranoid about going to Sweden, just in case they agree with your postulations. I don't know if your claims, in relation to them, are real or not; I don't propose to find out either, but if I were Assange I would be rightly careful. Read some of the information by his defence team, who are working gratis.

 

American law knows no international boundaries.

 

Extradition treaty exists in international law so that a government can apprehend a person who violated its laws and who happens to be in a foreign country. Extradition is an instrument of international law and the laws of a sovereign nation state. It is available to every government to negotiate a treaty of extradition, as with any treaty.