British migrant rights defender Andy Hall found guilty in a shock ruling by Bangkok court

[sambum]

4 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

 

If someone makes claims about your company that makes you lose money or possibly lose all your customers  don't you think you should have a right to take them to court?

 

 If Andy Hall had hard evidence then he would of been found not guilty.

 

”We are shocked by today's verdict. The report was authored and published by Finnwatch; we take full responsibility for it."

 

And this is the 2nd or 3rd time that the same company has tried the "defamation" route (I believe the previous "not guilty" verdicts are under appeal at the moment) Obviously "try, try, and try again" is their mantra - eventually you'll find a court/judge to see things your way!

[TechnikaIII]

Money changes hands > sh*t happens > and it has nothing to do with justice.

[pookiki]

26 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I think you missed this one subtle difference in your own link:

 

Truth is an absolute defense against defamation in the United States,[1] meaning true statements cannot be defamatory.[2]

Who determines the truth?   Usually a judge, right?  Were you surprised to find that criminal defamation laws exist in the first place?

Edited September 20, 2016 by pookiki
Misspelling

[Bangkok Barry]

5 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

Great news, he could not back up his claims with evidence in court and that's why he lost simple.

 

A stupid comment from someone who very obviously doesn't understand the laws of Thailand. Hall stated something that was damaging to the company, and whether it was true or not is completely irrelevant in Thai law. If anyone suffers damage because of what another says or writes then they can be taken to court, tried and jailed. You can find a cockroach in your restaurant meal and have proof that it was served up by the restaurant, but if you publicise it and the restaurant loses business as a result then they can take you to court. Truth is no defense at all in Thailand. End of. Damage anyone and you're toast. Hall would have known that but went ahead anyway because he believed what he said had to be said, but that doesn't put him above the law as it stands.

[AlQaholic]

Fat brown envelopes comes to mind......

[impulse]

7 minutes ago, pookiki said:

Who determines the truth?   Usually a judge, right?  Where you surprised to find that criminal defamation laws exist in the first place?

 

Doesn't surprise me at all there are still laws on the books.  And that they're used so sparingly.  Your link:

 

Over 12 years, with a population of 300 million, 41 cases were tried and 6 resulted in a conviction.  In 40 years, there were 16 convictions with 9 jail sentences.  16 convictions in 40 years with 300 million people.

 

Hardly comparable to the abuses here.  And the clincher is that telling the truth is an absolute defense to defamation in the USA.  Here. telling the truth is immaterial.

[AlQaholic]

11 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

A stupid comment from someone who very obviously doesn't understand the laws of Thailand. Hall stated something that was damaging to the company, and whether it was true or not is completely irrelevant in Thai law. If anyone suffers damage because of what another says or writes then they can be taken to court, tried and jailed. You can find a cockroach in your restaurant meal and have proof that it was served up by the restaurant, but if you publicise it and the restaurant loses business as a result then they can take you to court. Truth is no defense at all in Thailand. End of. Damage anyone and you're toast. Hall would have known that but went ahead anyway because he believed what he said had to be said, but that doesn't put him above the law as it stands.

you confuse the law about defamation with the Lese Majeste law. Section 330 of the criminal code deals with "truth as defense" and can be used if the defamed party is not a person and the information is of public interest, this was the defense by Hall lawyers, namely that the information was in the interest of the laborers.

Lese Majeste how ever is Lese Majeste whether it is true or not.

[pookiki]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

 

Doesn't surprise me at all there are still laws on the books.  And that they're used so sparingly.  Your link:

 

Over 12 years, with a population of 300 million, 41 cases were tried and 6 resulted in a conviction.  In 40 years, there were 16 convictions with 9 jail sentences.  16 convictions in 40 years with 300 million people.

 

Hardly comparable to the abuses here.  And the clincher is that telling the truth is an absolute defense to defamation in the USA.  Here. telling the truth is immaterial.

Yes, I agree with your statements overall but the fact remains that your original assertion was wrong. I hope you have learned something that you didn't know before.  I found out the same way you did.

[Rorri]

5 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

 

If someone makes claims about your company that makes you lose money or possibly lose all your customers  don't you think you should have a right to take them to court?

 

 If Andy Hall had hard evidence then he would of been found not guilty.

It wasn't up to Andy, the story was published by Finnwatch, so legally Andy didn't defame anyone, I do hope you can understand this.

[pookiki]

2 minutes ago, Rorri said:

It wasn't up to Andy, the story was published by Finnwatch, so legally Andy didn't defame anyone, I do hope you can understand this.

Unfortunately, there is more to this case than the publishing of the report. I think you need to do a bit more research on the issue. 

[williamgeorgeallen]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Hopefully he will be able to find the 150K and leave Thailand.

 

Of course, this will probably result in him being even more vocal about various things .

hope he dosent stay and try to fight it expecting justice. he can be as vocal as he wants outside of thailand. he has a suspended jail sentence over his head. cant get much more threatening than that.

[Golden Triangle]

5 hours ago, pookiki said:

The only viable strategy in curing these serious issues is to get the western companies to vigorously enforce the proper treatment of workers in their supply chain. Thai companies aren't going to change their ways without the threat of economic action or consumer boycotts.

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly on this, unfortunately look at all the well known high street stores, not just in the UK but all over Europe that procure their stock from places like India, Pakistan, Thailand etc where slave labour, poor wages, no workers rights and appalling working conditions exist. People like Mr Hall and the organisation he works for, and other organisations that try to raise our awareness of these issues are fighting a losing battle I'm afraid to say.

 

Until these companies stop buying products that are made using slave labour and exploitation of their workforce nothing will change.

 

A very sad state of affairs indeed. 

[AsianExport]

This country doesn't deserve any respect.

 

 

[zyphodb]

6 hours ago, Alive said:

”This is a sad day for freedom of expression in Thailand."  No, it's not. This has been going on forever but most are willing to ignore everyone else who is being abused. First they came for .... and now it's a sad day. Funny. Slowly the people (Thais and expats)that empowered this regime with their apathy towards it wake up or change their views. I know Andy knew what was going on. I wonder if he will get any support from his home country or are they willing to sacrifice another citizen for business?

 

With a Tory government in the UK the chances of them doing anymore than a token protest for a few brownie points are zero.....

[Bangkok Barry]

1 minute ago, AsianExport said:

This country doesn't deserve any respect.

 

 

 

And doesn't have any, except from the Thais and a few foreigners with rose-tinted glasses. Interesting how no foreign leader ever comes to Thailand now, even if they are in the area. Notice that Obama chose to visit Laos recently rather than come to Thailand, which is now shunned by all democratic nations.

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, Hawk said:

 

Supposedly this government has the responsibility to crack down on all forms of slavery, child labour etc. So if a company is found to be breaking the law then supposedly they are meant to be prosecuted harshly because western governments have been and still are putting pressure on this government to clean up the pond.  But this government has been and is telling every country that it has virtually won the war on slavery when that is obviously a lie. So a not guilty verdict would have proved that Hall's accusations were indeed true thus causing a problem for this government saying that they are not doing enough or even ignoring many cases of abuse.

No. The case relates to findings prior to this government even coming to power. The actually situation in terms of slave labour may be different now but it has no bearing on the case. 

[Grubster]

I guess I will keep my mouth shut on this one, I don't need a knock on my door.

[oldlakey]

6 hours ago, DavisH said:

I guess Mr Hall won't be attending the Expat Fair

He wont be on his own 

[Deepinthailand]

48 minutes ago, AlQaholic said:

Fat brown envelopes comes to mind......

Don't worry the tree huggers fund will be on the case to pay t money. Then they will shout from the tree tops about coruption. 

[stander]

There are two sides to this case one where Natural Fruits evidence includes the fact that government inspectors regularly visited the process plant and found no serious issues. Then there is Halls side, which included research notes, photos and witness accounts and in the end  the judges gave more credence to the Natural Fruits evidence.

[Deepinthailand]

7 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

And doesn't have any, except from the Thais and a few foreigners with rose-tinted glasses. Interesting how no foreign leader ever comes to Thailand now, even if they are in the area. Notice that Obama chose to visit Laos recently rather than come to Thailand, which is now shunned by all democratic nations.

Rubbish.

[Lupatria]

6 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

 

If someone makes claims about your company that makes you lose money or possibly lose all your customers  don't you think you should have a right to take them to court?

 

 If Andy Hall had hard evidence then he would of been found not guilty.

Are you looking for fame being the last person promoting Thailand as a slave labor free country? Or are you just looking for a job and a life time visa?

[evadgib]

26 minutes ago, zyphodb said:

 

With a Tory government in the UK the chances of them doing anymore than a token protest for a few brownie points are zero.....

What would you have them do?

[BlindMagician]

6 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

 

If someone makes claims about your company that makes you lose money or possibly lose all your customers  don't you think you should have a right to take them to court?

 

 If Andy Hall had hard evidence then he would of been found not guilty.

Ah bless, there are some baby naieve people out there.

[zyphodb]

Well it would be nice if they stood up in the UN & asked for an investigation into Thailand's human rights record but of course it won't happen. It might just show it`s citizens that it cares just a little bit about them though, which of course it doesn't apart from convincing enough of them to vote for it at the elections.

 And as the UN is just a puppet for the global banking cartel and the multinational corporations it would`nt do any good anyway. 

 

[mankondang]

7 hours ago, Tatsujin said:

Anyone that's deluded enough to think that this current crop of thieves at the top are any different to anyone before needs to think again.

 

It's all about protecting their revenue streams, nothing more.

 

Corruption continues to live on. Disgusting. And not even subtle about it.

 

The "current crop" have always been at the very top. Any "crop", before them were just their subordinates.

[Xircal]

Consumers can do their bit now by boycotting this company's products.

 

Check the label the next time you want to buy a tin of pineapple slices.

[DiscoDan]

19 minutes ago, BlindMagician said:

Ah bless, there are some baby naieve people out there.

Baby naieve ? 

 

Where the prove of andy's claims I have not seen any have you ?

[DiscoDan]

Samui  times  don't seem to have got the memo on worshipping saint Andy maybe now he is a convicted criminal he will show us what all the public donations was spent on. 

 

http://www.samuitimes.com/the-koh-tao-murders-two-years-on/

 

"Far from being pro bono, Andy Hall raised a phenomenal amount of cash through his online campaign from willing members of the public, but never once showed anything other than very sketchy account. Interestingly Hall is using the same defence lawyers for his own legal battle with Natural Fruit over his Finnwatch report"
 

[JAG]

4 hours ago, cms22 said:

This is the result of having an "administration" in this country that does not want the people to have rights. This is the result of having an "administration" in this country that is only interested to protect certain sections of society. I remember a couple of years ago so many right-wing TV members spouting on about how bad Thaksin is and how much better the army government will be. Where are they now, I ask.

Oh, still around, still around. Just a little,  shall we say, selective, about what they comment on.