Customers can refuse paying service charges if they are not clearly stated

[webfact]

Customers can refuse paying service charges if they are not clearly stated

 

 

BANGKOK: -- Customers have the right not to pay service charges to restaurants if the charges are not clearly spelled out or stated by their owners or proprietors, said Mr Pikanet Tapuang, deputy secretary-general of the Office of Consumers Protection Committee, on Thursday.

 

He pointed out that the existing Product Prices and Service Charges B.E. 2542 does not specify how much service charges are to be levied but the proprietors of restaurants themselves have to clearly show the rates of service charges.

 

The law, he said, corroborates with the Consumers Protection Act which guarantees consumers’ right of access to accurate and sufficient information which will help them decide to choose or to buy products at free will.

 

Full story: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/customers-can-refuse-paying-service-charges-not-clearly-stated/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2016-09-23

[court]

when I see service charges on a receipt I refuse to tip unless I get great services and then I palm some money to the server. I hope the staff actually gets a piece of this money. 555 ya as if 

Edited September 22, 2016 by court

[taichiplanet]

good luck with refusing to pay the charge, easier and cheaper to pay the charge than go to hospital! Probably  the same consumer law that covers warranties, which half the time shops refuse to honour.

Edited September 22, 2016 by taichiplanet

[dotpoom]

2 hours ago, court said:

when I see service charges on a receipt I refuse to tip unless I get great services and then I palm some money to the server. I hope the staff actually gets a piece of this money. 555 ya as if 

 

Actually...I noticed in Thailand that the staff do seem to get their tips and each one of them seem to be very honest about putting it in a jar or something for ALL the staff to share.

    It is more a "Western" thing that the owners rip off the staff by pocketing tips.

[alex8912]

10 minutes ago, dotpoom said:

 

Actually...I noticed in Thailand that the staff do seem to get their tips and each one of them seem to be very honest about putting it in a jar or something for ALL the staff to share.

    It is more a "Western" thing that the owners rip off the staff by pocketing tips.

How in the "West" do owners rip off the staff from tips?  It goes right into the pocket of the server. In some high end restaurants the server has to give some to the bus boys.  The owners get zero of the tips.  You are wrong. 

[Artisi]

6 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

How in the "West" do owners rip off the staff from tips?  It goes right into the pocket of the server. In some high end restaurants the server has to give some to the bus boys.  The owners get zero of the tips.  You are wrong. 

Never heard of adding a tip to the credit card docket,  and I'm sure the owner will spend half his spare time checking all dockets and making sure they deposit every cent into the tip box. 

Edited September 23, 2016 by Artisi

[DGS1244]

10 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

How in the "West" do owners rip off the staff from tips?  It goes right into the pocket of the server. In some high end restaurants the server has to give some to the bus boys.  The owners get zero of the tips.  You are wrong. 

No I think it is you that is wrong, having run a number of restaurants in the 'West' , all tips received were place in a box then any breakages losses etc. caused by waiting staff was deducted and the rest shared out to staff equally. 

[alex8912]

7 minutes ago, DGS1244 said:

No I think it is you that is wrong, having run a number of restaurants in the 'West' , all tips received were place in a box then any breakages losses etc. caused by waiting staff was deducted and the rest shared out to staff equally. 

No in my west. I never heard of tips being pooled in any normal restaurant. I know many servers. Why would they be pooled?  Some servers make $200+ a night and another one at same restaurant might make $125. I'm from the country that is known for tipping.  No one  pays for broken glass. Sounds like a bit of cheap Charley at your restaurants. Did the staff ever stay more than a month??

[Khunbilly]

A finance manager friend of mine in Bangkok said that pretty much all places do give the service charge money to the staff. There are exceptions, of course. 

The wait staff I've worked with (as a dishwasher and cook) in California collected their own tips and split them with the kitchen staff, accordingly. I never heard of them pooling the money. 

[hawker9000]

2 hours ago, taichiplanet said:

good luck with refusing to pay the charge, easier and cheaper to pay the charge than go to hospital! Probably  the same consumer law that covers warranties, which half the time shops refuse to honour.

It's just another feelgood public statement.  Nobody takes such pronouncements seriously (certainly not falangs).

[Chris Lawrence]

Its like what taichiplanet said above, this is when the meat cleavers come out.

[MROLL320]

52 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

How in the "West" do owners rip off the staff from tips?  It goes right into the pocket of the server. In some high end restaurants the server has to give some to the bus boys.  The owners get zero of the tips.  You are wrong. 

Sorry mate... My wife had managed a few places and owners do pocket tips in the UK at least. Sometimes using the excuse they have to pay tax on tips... 

[dantilley]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

proprietors of restaurants themselves have to clearly show the rates of service charges.

 

This is the key point of the statement. You can only refuse the 10% service charge if it isn't clearly mentioned on the menu (or somewhere else). I don't think I've ever known a restaurant not mention the "++" charges on their menu; in small print maybe, but it's always mentioned.

[overherebc]

6 minutes ago, dantilley said:

 

This is the key point of the statement. You can only refuse the 10% service charge if it isn't clearly mentioned on the menu (or somewhere else). I don't think I've ever known a restaurant not mention the "++" charges on their menu; in small print maybe, but it's always mentioned.

 

Doesn't ++ come under the part about 'not clearly set out'

+  5, 10, or 15 % etc. 

[kennw]

Does this mean we do not have to pay the "other services" charge added to the bill at major hospitals?

I've already tried getting details of this charge with no success.

 

[paul545]

20 minutes ago, MROLL320 said:

Sorry mate... My wife had managed a few places and owners do pocket tips in the UK at least. Sometimes using the excuse they have to pay tax on tips... 

Especially the Indian & Chinese Restaurants owner keeps the tips. Never leave on table always give to server out of sight so they get to keep it 

[dantilley]

11 minutes ago, overherebc said:

 

Doesn't ++ come under the part about 'not clearly set out'

+  5, 10, or 15 % etc. 

 

I didn't mean just stating "++" on the menu, I mean clearly saying what charges are "++'ed" onto the bill. They always say something like "10% service charge and applicable government tax"

[little mary sunshine]

The service charge that is added to the bill is the "tip".

for excellent service I leave my individual server a little

additional, usually 50 baht at a nice restaurant.

[overherebc]

1 minute ago, dantilley said:

 

I didn't mean just stating "++" on the menu, I mean clearly saying what charges are "++'ed" onto the bill. They always say something like "10% service charge and applicable government tax"

 

I agree with you but I have seen the ++ without figures and when you ask they tell you 10% plus VAT ( very annoying tax ) etc, however, it would be your fault if you don't ask what the figures are.

[bark]

1 hour ago, alex8912 said:

How in the "West" do owners rip off the staff from tips?  It goes right into the pocket of the server. In some high end restaurants the server has to give some to the bus boys.  The owners get zero of the tips.  You are wrong. 

Sorry but you are wrong. True only cash tip; but if customer pays with a credit card; the tip shows at the bottom of the card slip. At the end of the shift the server has to cash out with the manager. The manager can take a percentage of the tip; saying he has to pay service charges to Visa etc.

[alex8912]

22 minutes ago, bark said:

Sorry but you are wrong. True only cash tip; but if customer pays with a credit card; the tip shows at the bottom of the card slip. At the end of the shift the server has to cash out with the manager. The manager can take a percentage of the tip; saying he has to pay service charges to Visa etc.

Yes you are right. Some restaurants do this not all so on a $20 tip the credit card fee is about 3% or 60 cents.  If  you think 60 cents is ripping off the staff then you are double right!!!!  Nuff said.  You are the big winner. 

[kaiyaibob]

2 hours ago, alex8912 said:

How in the "West" do owners rip off the staff from tips?  It goes right into the pocket of the server. In some high end restaurants the server has to give some to the bus boys.  The owners get zero of the tips.  You are wrong. 

Really ?? http://news.sky.com/story/pizza-express-accused-of-taking-slice-of-tips-10349856

[Autonuaq]

The whole Idea of tipping is from a time people had not a steady income and the tip was what they need to live from.The so-called service charge are just an extra way to increase the profit of the company.

the invoice they include in the total price the service charge and doing that actually the invoice is incorrect. so the customer can refuse to pay and if they do not provide a correct invoice you actually can cause them of ripp-off.

 

They have to put clearly that the prices mentioned are excluding the service charges and or tax and or what every they say. if not mentioned then you can refuse. the print has to be readable.

 

Regarding tipping I personally never understood why people do. eventough I worked in a bar and also restaurant we never understood why people do. because if you have not enough money with you the restaurant or bar or shop  not give you discount and say OK, you are my valued customer. and if they do they do because they already got the missing part covered by ... the tip of another customer.

as weel that in many companies the tips are not shared  with the people behind 'the wall'. the people who do the actual work and for example prepare the food or things like that. Or in the worst cases the boss claims the most of the tip.

 

The actual tip is that you return and spread the word around.

 

Beside that in the example receipt you also see the tax 7% is added and rounded up over the service charges of 10% too

 

 

Edited September 23, 2016 by Autonuaq

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, dotpoom said:

 

Actually...I noticed in Thailand that the staff do seem to get their tips and each one of them seem to be very honest about putting it in a jar or something for ALL the staff to share.

    It is more a "Western" thing that the owners rip off the staff by pocketing tips.

That's just not true. 

 

Some employers let staff keep their tips, some do not. 

 

Its BS to say that whether or not this happens depends on the region of the planet the employer is based in. 

Edited September 23, 2016 by Bluespunk

[kaiyaibob]

8 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Thread is about service charge in restaurants not one pizza joint  in Briton which is not really a tipping society at all. Apples and kangaroos.  

OK you generalised and said "The owners get zero of the tips.  You are wrong" I gave one example of your statement generalising too much ...I am certain there are many more examples :-(

Edited September 23, 2016 by kaiyaibob

[Bangkok Barry]

I wonder why a service charge isn't added when I buy a pair of shoes, or a computer or anything else. Only when I go to a restaurant. Why is it that the restaurant business is allowed to intimidate their customers into paying part of their staff's wage? Just asking.

[trainman34014]

Having lived with a Thai for ten years you learn how they deal with things on a local basis.   My Mrs will not eat at places that have a service charge and she and all her friends quickly learn where those places are.  They believe the owners keep all the money and do not share it with staff,  because that is what the staff tell them !

 

On the prickly subject of tips; 20 baht is normally left, no matter what the final bill was and it has been noted on many occasions that many Thai's leave no tip at all.   This doesn't go down well with our American cousins who are brought up with different idea's to those of us from Europe.   Each to his own.

[andre47]

If a restaurant is charging service charges I always visit this restaurant 2 times....the first time and the last time and I don't pay tip. They will never see me again.

[Flyfish]

As this topic has migrated to tipping in the "west", I might as well throw in my own comments. Although many aspects of life in the UK are similar to the US,one cultural difference is certainly tipping in restaurants.

very low pay in US restaurants and other service industry's,has led to tipping being the norm,and 15% is usual, and goes to the server(in most cases). If you don't tip, or tip less,you are likely to be confronted and challenged as to the reason.

in the UK 10% is considered generous,if it's a large bill say £200 then £10 (5%) would be fine.

As has been stated,tips in the UK are frequently kept by the management,especially if added to the credit card. If payed in cash,usually shared amongst all staff. Even national chains have been named and shamed for this practice .

 

[natway09]

Try walking out of a 5 star hotel restaurant without paying the service charge.

Who comes up with these scatterbrain ideas.????? Must be from the US.

New Thai law,,,,    Service charge as a separate item illegal

                               From,,,,,,, it must be shown in the menu item price

which means that the Govt gets 7% off the top