Why Thailand is moving closer to decriminalizing meth

[HoboKay]

2 minutes ago, manfredtillmann said:

given the amount of crap that goes on on this planet, the governmental deceptions, the lies we are being fed - by both these and those - the way we are being manipulated, abused, exploited, used...

why would any one of us even think that a drug - less life is desirable?

 

we are all nothing but pawns in someone's chess game, with NO control over our own destiny.

indulging in drug use makes being brain - raped by the ones who are supposed to support you just that little bit easier to wear...

 

 

A little MDMA is in order to ease the ride into the sunset?

[manfredtillmann]

Just now, HoboKay said:

 

A little MDMA is in order to ease the ride into the sunset?

yes, anything to make you feel less exploited and bullshitted on by your own government.

a little 'chemical' resistance?

[lostinisaan]

6 minutes ago, manfredtillmann said:

you are starting to sound like my parents, lii.

i never raped anyone while on 'speed'! or anyone at all, anyway.

lsd micros where a part of our life, boys and girls, i had my first at age 15.

remember where we lived, you and i???

 

and if you have not tried them....... don't talk about them, either.

is this post about ice? compared to speed ice is a garbage bin for loosers.

my opinion...

 

    Iv'e tried enough to be able to talk about it. Yep, I saw the Micro cosmos, even before you did. Plus some other things that were part of our youth. Jimi Hendrix, Frank Zappa and Jim, the Lizard King. Guess you get it. 

 

     But take some dirty Jabba and give it to some guys who are already pretty brainless. I've known a good looking girl a long time ago, two years later I've heard a voice calling my name. 

 

   It took quite a long time to figure out that it was the ex good looking girl who looked like a zombie. Plenty of pills intravenous a day, not enough, or almost no food and amazing Pattaya did a great job .

 

     And a lot of people do shoot it after a while. That's where the zombie comes from. 

 

      I wasn't talking about people who can control the use of speed. . My post was about people who get used by it. Cheers. 

 

     

[CharlieK]

1 hour ago, manfredtillmann said:

given the amount of crap that goes on on this planet, the governmental deceptions, the lies we are being fed - by both these and those - the way we are being manipulated, abused, exploited, used...

why would any one of us even think that a drug - less life is desirable?

 

we are all nothing but pawns in someone's chess game, with NO control over our own destiny.

indulging in drug use makes being brain - raped by the ones who are supposed to support you just that little bit easier to wear...

 

 

blaming others for your situation maybe? 

[manfredtillmann]

1 minute ago, CharlieK said:

 

blaming others for your situation maybe? 

no, not at all. zero blame, i could not care less about what others think about me.

my 'situation' is perfectly cool, unlike the one endured by less fortunate people at the mercy of their government.

you just have to ask yourself if 'YOUR' government is looking after you..., in reciprocal response to you having looked after them by paying your taxes. just talk to an australian pensioner about his 'income' and how s/he makes a living out of that one.

before you question me about blaming others...

 

 

[CharlieK]

15 minutes ago, manfredtillmann said:

no, not at all. zero blame, i could not care less about what others think about me.

my 'situation' is perfectly cool, unlike the one endured by less fortunate people at the mercy of their government.

you just have to ask yourself if 'YOUR' government is looking after you..., in reciprocal response to you having looked after them by paying your taxes. just talk to an australian pensioner about his 'income' and how s/he makes a living out of that one.

before you question me about blaming others...

 

 

OK I hear what you are saying. 

[johnnywishbone]

Sooner or later reality will raise its ugly head.
Shame if you get clean but have 30 to life staring you in the face.
A life wasted


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Xircal]

14 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Actually, most people who try heroin will never become addicted at all. The ones that do become addicted will be mostly affected by the negative effects of the fact that it is illegal. If there was a cheap supply of pharmaceutical heroin - and the police would leave them alone - they could live decent lives.

If Thailand  legalizes methadrine, heroin will likely not be far behind. It is a far less dangerous drug.

 

You sound like a drugs dealer trying to convince gullible individuals of the merits of a dangerous drug in order to get them hooked. https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/heroin/what-are-long-term-effects-heroin-use

 

[jb5music]

Another aspect people seldom Grok is HOW... or rather, the intent the the drug is made with. If the drug is cooked in backstreet labs by the mafia then it will be engineered to create the worst/ strongest withdrawal symptom possible to cause the users to give everything and all money to continue to buy more. If the drug is studied by legitimate medical associations and pharmaceuticals with all the professional experience / methodology they've accrued in the last umpteen decades. Then the drug I'm sure could be made to produce a fraction of the withdrawal symptom of the street garbage you are forced to purchase while it is illegal. After all.. it's the Jones (as they coined decades ago in the US) that causes the felonious ghetto types to run out and rob people/ liquor stores to get more of the drug. Not the high you are on while using it. It's when they run OUT. That's when all the trouble begins and is the cause of the epidemic. Stimulants / ephedrine... when used in moderation help control the appetite and curb binge eating if used correctly. Also. alot of people including myself who are 'eat freaks' when living life completely drug free... would be able to eat in a more sensible and timed manor. It would be interesting if they could manufacture the lowest withdrawal / mild stimulant in a sensible dosage format coupled with a matching depressant formula and a recommended time period to ingest the drug and then cease with the aid of the depressant. (instead of alcohol which is what drives a huge part of the alcohol related traffic fatalities) The people pound booze to come down.... to beat the "Jones" I'm sure stimulants could be used rationally and non continually if they tried to do so and manufacture it so... instead of the exact opposite we see now with illegal drugs. Think of the huge decrease in the consumption of food and output of unhealthy human sewage that would also be lowered greatly, being an immense benefit if the general public used stimulants in a controlled or metered manner.

[zd1]

I have stated before that I am pro legalisation or decriminalisation of all drugs as prohibition of anything simply doesn't work.

I do find it puzzling that they want to legalise meth but keep cannabis and kratom illegal, but it is a start.

Meth in my opinion is a dangerous drug and far worse than cannabis, kratom and opium, but in Thailand meth is the drug of choice for the masses of users, bringing it out in the open is a good thing.

It will be interesting to see what will happen in this case as in will it be supplied by government outlets at a price cheaper than back street dealers where the users would have to register and would the purity of the drug be better with maybe something in it to counteract the psychosis which a lot of users seem to experience, if it happens like this then it can only be a good thing as it would put the back street dealers out of business and the users are registered and monitored.

[lostinisaan]

1 hour ago, jb5music said:

Another aspect people seldom Grok is HOW... or rather, the intent the the drug is made with. If the drug is cooked in backstreet labs by the mafia then it will be engineered to create the worst/ strongest withdrawal symptom possible to cause the users to give everything and all money to continue to buy more. If the drug is studied by legitimate medical associations and pharmaceuticals with all the professional experience / methodology they've accrued in the last umpteen decades. Then the drug I'm sure could be made to produce a fraction of the withdrawal symptom of the street garbage you are forced to purchase while it is illegal. After all.. it's the Jones (as they coined decades ago in the US) that causes the felonious ghetto types to run out and rob people/ liquor stores to get more of the drug. Not the high you are on while using it. It's when they run OUT. That's when all the trouble begins and is the cause of the epidemic. Stimulants / ephedrine... when used in moderation help control the appetite and curb binge eating if used correctly. Also. alot of people including myself who are 'eat freaks' when living life completely drug free... would be able to eat in a more sensible and timed manor. It would be interesting if they could manufacture the lowest withdrawal / mild stimulant in a sensible dosage format coupled with a matching depressant formula and a recommended time period to ingest the drug and then cease with the aid of the depressant. (instead of alcohol which is what drives a huge part of the alcohol related traffic fatalities) The people pound booze to come down.... to beat the "Jones" I'm sure stimulants could be used rationally and non continually if they tried to do so and manufacture it so... instead of the exact opposite we see now with illegal drugs. Think of the huge decrease in the consumption of food and output of unhealthy human sewage that would also be lowered greatly, being an immense benefit if the general public used stimulants in a controlled or metered manner.

 

You gotta be kidding. Do you really think that a meth lab's really out on creating the worst withdrawal? 

 

       It's the quality of the ingredients that makes it to a good" or a bad substance. 

 

         It's similar to alcohol. Take Lao Khao and a bottle of Jacky. Let 2 guys drink the same amount for one year and then check their health. 

 

           When it gets to heroin # 4, you can still get in the north of Thailand, you sure have a lot more withdrawal symptoms because some of that shit is to 80- 90 percent pure.

 

   Which again shows that drugs should be allowed/legalized and taxed and the government has to control what's on the streets and in the stuff. Plus enough money for therapies for those who want to come off. 

 

    In Holland the cops check the quality of heroin and other hard drugs and even warn the people over radio and TV not to take anything of a certain badge that's highly dangerous because too much other stuff is mixed in, like strychnine, that also makes high, but not too often. 

 

     

 

 

Edited October 3, 2016 by lostinisaan

[Ulysses G.]

2 hours ago, Xircal said:

 

You sound like a drugs dealer trying to convince gullible individuals of the merits of a dangerous drug in order to get them hooked. 

 

 

Just relaying the facts. Heroin is a lot less dangerous than most people think. However - like alcohol and many other drugs - it can be addictive. I avoid taking drugs on a regular basis, because I do not want to take that chance.

[Ulysses G.]

Another life long morphine/cocaine addict who lived into his 70s and accomplished much. The founder of John Hopkins Hospital.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Stewart_Halsted

[starky]

9 hours ago, Gainsbourg said:

Ok so meth ice cristal is the same type of speed and mostly inhaled (with pipe)? Yaba are amphetamine pills. Sometime crushed and then smoked as well. The latter is mostly made in burma (shan state) with pseudo efedrine from thai pharmacies/hospitals? And correct me if im wrong yaba was legal til 80s or later and sold in gas stations? 

 

Not sure about that but there were lots of amphetamine based products that used to be able to be purchased over the counter for weight loss, then of course there is dexamphetamine, benzedrine and all their by products and adderal and Ritalin that apparently is just fine to give to children. When big pharma sells you speed it's fine just don't buy it yourself. I'm all for decriminalisation I don't see any difference between most drugs and alcohol some people have addictive natures some don't but it's better the government runs it then organised crime. Otherwise you end up in ridiculous situations like Thailand where you can't even buy decent cold and flu medication because pseudo -ephedrine has been outlawed because it's a precursor. Madness. 

Edited October 3, 2016 by starky
Double post

[212Roger]

22 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Absolute nonsense. It takes much more than one dose.

By the way, heroin addicts get a bad "flu" for s few days when they go cold turkey. People addicted to alcohol can DIE.

 

http://www.lakesidemilam.com/alcohol-drug-addiction/under-the-influence/disease-of-addiction-an-expanded-overview/

There are only two drugs that exist that "going cold turkey" can kill you: alcohol and barbiturates.  Unfortunately, I am mixing both; twelve beers a day a two mg. of Xanax a day.  Woe is me...

[Ulysses G.]

Just now, 212Roger said:

There are only two drugs that exist that "going cold turkey" can kill you: alcohol and barbiturates.  Unfortunately, I am mixing both; twelve beers a day a two mg. of Xanax a day.  Woe is me...

 

Also methadone will kill you when going cold turkey. The drug that is much more addictive than heroin, that governments give heroin addicts as a substitute. Utterly ridiculous!

[212Roger]

13 hours ago, lostinisaan said:

 

 Plus speed is creating thousands of rapists, no matter how old the victims are.

 

    Speed stimulates certain receptors in the brain and these people are living zombies.

 

       Wasn't is widely used in the States, before cocaine took over, because people said: SPEED KILLS ??? 

No!  In the U.S.A. "Meth" has overtaken coke; coke is an 80's drug.  "Meth" is king!  Cheap, last twenty times longer; work and/or "boom boom" for hours.

[Strange]

4 minutes ago, 212Roger said:

There are only two drugs that exist that "going cold turkey" can kill you: alcohol and barbiturates.  Unfortunately, I am mixing both; twelve beers a day a two mg. of Xanax a day.  Woe is me...

 

Its alcohol and benzodiazepines that can kill you. You are not taking a barbiturate, you are taking a benzodiazepine. 

 

Im sure you are aware of the hard time you are in for if you decide to stop. 

 

Whatever you do, just make sure you tell your doctor what you are doing, and don't stop cold turkey unless supervised. Some Docs will prescribe longer lasting benzo like valium and then taper you off, but the risk of seizures is huge for both. 

[212Roger]

9 hours ago, Gainsbourg said:

Ok so meth ice cristal is the same type of speed and mostly inhaled (with pipe)? Yaba are amphetamine pills. Sometime crushed and then smoked as well. The latter is mostly made in burma (shan state) with pseudo efedrine from thai pharmacies/hospitals? And correct me if im wrong yaba was legal til 80s or later and sold in gas stations? 

 

Correct!  Remember, when smoked it is a more mental drug, whereas, when snorted, it is a more physical drug.

[212Roger]

2 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Its alcohol and benzodiazepines that can kill you. You are not taking a barbiturate, you are taking a benzodiazepine. 

 

Im sure you are aware of the hard time you are in for if you decide to stop. 

 

Whatever you do, just make sure you tell your doctor what you are doing, and don't stop cold turkey unless supervised. Some Docs will prescribe longer lasting benzo like valium and then taper you off, but the risk of seizures is huge for both. 

Thank you.  I'll delve further into my problem.  I know it'll be very hard to quit or switch.

[Strange]

5 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Also methadone will kill you when going cold turkey. The drug that is much more addictive than heroin, that governments give heroin addicts as a substitute. Utterly ridiculous!

 

Methadone won't kill you by stopping cold turkey, you might wish you were dead, but it won't kill you. Its not more addicting than heroin either, the problem is that it has such a long half life, the withdrawal from methadone can take up to a month whereas heroin acute phase is about a week depending on dosage. 

 

Agree, its REALLY stupid the gov giving people this, but they are doing it to keep addicts out of withdrawal. One daily dose of methadone vs 4-5-6 doses of heroin per day to keep people functional. Its retarded I know, but thats the reason. 

[Strange]

1 minute ago, 212Roger said:

Thank you.  I'll delve further into my problem.  I know it'll be very hard to quit or switch.

 

Feel free to PM me. Me and my brother both went through Benzo withdrawal and it sucked. 

[212Roger]

Just now, Strange said:

 

Methadone won't kill you by stopping cold turkey, you might wish you were dead, but it won't kill you. Its not more addicting than heroin either, the problem is that it has such a long half life, the withdrawal from methadone can take up to a month whereas heroin acute phase is about a week depending on dosage. 

 

Agree, its REALLY stupid the gov giving people this, but they are doing it to keep addicts out of withdrawal. One daily dose of methadone vs 4-5-6 doses of heroin per day to keep people functional. Its retarded I know, but thats the reason. 

I've read methadone is more difficult to get off of than heroin.  However, these are not my drug of choice.  No experience...

[Dexlowe]

2 minutes ago, 212Roger said:

Thank you.  I'll delve further into my problem.  I know it'll be very hard to quit or switch.

 

Lots of advice on the web about going cold turkey with benzos. Listen to what the "experts" say and don't be deterred by a handful of individuals who are spreading a lot of hate about certain support groups.

 

I went cold turkey on xanax (just 1mg a day) and suffered 2 brain seizures. I was lucky to be around sensible people at the time, but when I walked out of the hospital the next day, I had no idea of the world of hurt that lay ahead of me - I wish I knew then what I know now. Sorry for the cliche, but it was a trip to hell and back - would have been better to have followed the advice of those who'd gone before. (I'm recovered now, but I don't think my central nervous system is fully restored)

 

Alcohol? Deadly to go cold turkey? Jeez, you'd have to be pretty saturated in the stuff, wouldn't you?

[Strange]

Personally I would go for legalization of certain drugs myself. Certain Opiates, Cannibis, Mushrooms, etc. 

 

I don't think I would like to see any meth products, cocaine/crack, MDMA, or LSD legalized. 

 

However I do see the argument for the legalization of all drugs. 

[Strange]

2 minutes ago, Dexlowe said:

 

Lots of advice on the web about going cold turkey with benzos. Listen to what the "experts" say and don't be deterred by a handful of individuals who are spreading a lot of hate about certain support groups.

 

I went cold turkey on xanax (just 1mg a day) and suffered 2 brain seizures. I was lucky to be around sensible people at the time, but when I walked out of the hospital the next day, I had no idea of the world of hurt that lay ahead of me - I wish I knew then what I know now. Sorry for the cliche, but it was a trip to hell and back - would have been better to have followed the advice of those who'd gone before. (I'm recovered now, but I don't think my central nervous system is fully restored)

 

Alcohol? Deadly to go cold turkey? Jeez, you'd have to be pretty saturated in the stuff, wouldn't you?

 

Just as deadly as benzodiazepines my friend. No fear mongering here. Seen people have seizures first had from alcohol withdrawal, and the bad part is, they think just like you do about it. 

 

Buddy of mine drank everyday, not to oblivion, just every day. He had a hernia he needed repaired. The docs told him to quit drinking 48 hours before coming in for surgery. He told the docs that he didn't drink much. He had a grand mal preparing for surgery and the docs couldn't figure out what the problem was because he said he "Didn't drink much" but it turns out 6-7-8 beers a day over a good long period is more than enough. Some people even less. 

[Ulysses G.]

I am under the impression that methadone withdrawal can kill and there is plenty of evidence that some professionals agree - see first link below. If methadone takes 4 times as long as heroin to kick and you can die from doing it, to me, that would be more addictive. 

 

I have tried both heroin and methadone - way back when - but not a lot of experience with either. Speed was my drug of choice in my youth, but would never touch it again. That stuff is scary!

 

http://www.rehabs.com/how-improperly-detoxing-can-kill-you/

 

More about the horrors of legal methadone:

 

http://novusdetox.com/methadone-addiction-pain.php

Edited October 3, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[Strange]

28 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

I am under the impression that methadone withdrawal can kill and there is plenty of evidence that some professionals agree. If methadone takes 4 times as long as heroin to kick and you can die from doing it, to me, that would be more addictive. 

 

I have tried both heroin and methadone - way back when - but not a lot of experience with either. Speed was my drug of choice in my youth, but would never touch it again. That stuff is scary!

 

http://www.rehabs.com/how-improperly-detoxing-can-kill-you/

 

More about the horrors of legal methadone:

 

http://novusdetox.com/methadone-addiction-pain.php

 

Ive kicked both.

 

Methadone withdrawal won't kill you. Its the same withdrawal as heroin, dilaudid, oxy, opana, same effects, just slightly less acute over a long ass time. Heroin, you'll be sneezing and watery eyed in 4-5 hours with acute symptoms in 24-48 hours. Methadone you might go 1 day or more before the sniffles start. 

 

Its a horrible thing I'm not arguing with that, but its very unlikely to die from the withdrawal. Most of the stuff posted by rehab/detox places kinda fear monger about it because they want you to go in patient. A lot of people do it because frankly once you get hooked, its HARD to function in any capacity while dope-sick for an entire month.The inpatient places nowadays prescribe Suboxone for opiate withdrawal. It kills the withdrawal, without any euphoric effects, but you are still hooked on the suboxone because you will get very sick if you stop. So they get you on suboxone and taper you off with that so that you are more "Comfortable"  and not bed-ridden crapping yourself for a month. 

 

Anyway the whole process is horrible and avoidable and the government doing this is despicable. Not only that but detox/rehab places are filling their beds nicely over it as well. Its a whole racket that should not exist. 

 

Edited October 3, 2016 by Strange

[ericthai]

20 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Actually, most people who try heroin will never become addicted at all. The ones that do become addicted will be mostly affected by the negative effects of the fact that it is illegal. If there was a cheap supply of pharmaceutical heroin - and the police would leave them alone - they could live decent lives.

If Thailand  legalizes methadrine, heroin will likely not be far behind. It is a far less dangerous drug.

Correct, the issue with overdoes is there is no quality control. So a heroin addict will know from experience how much to take, but then comes in a strong bach and the same amount will cause an overdose to be being stronger. Also users that have been to rehap have a good chance to overdose if they revert back to using, because they cant handle a high dose after not using for some time. Overtime they build up a tolerance and need more and more. 

[starky]

58 minutes ago, Strange said:

Personally I would go for legalization of certain drugs myself. Certain Opiates, Cannibis, Mushrooms, etc. 

 

I don't think I would like to see any meth products, cocaine/crack, MDMA, or LSD legalized. 

 

However I do see the argument for the legalization of all drugs. 

Cant follow your reasoning there so opiates yes, MDMA no? Mushrooms yes, LSD no? Cannabis yes, Cocoa no? I think you need to do a bit more research, or are you just for "legalising"  your drugs of choice? Also I think we are talking about stritcly controlled, registered, monitored decriminalisation not legalisation but thanks for playing.

Edited October 3, 2016 by starky
Double post