May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Laughing Gravy]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The fact that there has only ever been 3 national referendums in the UK is a fairly good indication of how useful they are to UK politics.

The first 2 were merely a confidence boost for government policy and then David Camerons ego screwed up the 3rd opinion poll.

I wondered how long before the remoaning brigade came out to defend and champion the cause. it wasn't very long. It is funny how certain posters and people always use the line of well referendums have no real value, especially when it goes against them.  It doesn't really matter does it as the referendum has been done and an outcome happened. People should deal with it.

 

[Laughing Gravy]

18 hours ago, SheungWan said:

The Supreme Court decision is issued tomorrow Tuesday. After the announcement, any forum member who begins their contribution with the words 'I don't understand why........'  should pay the penalty of a round of Chang to the rest of us who are obliged to read it.

I would not force Chang on my enemies. Regardless of the outcome tomorrow (which we all know what it will be) do you really think it will change anything?

[AlexRich]

13 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

 Thank you for the most hilarious thing I have heard all year. I suppose elections are like a raffle.

 

Glad you find it amusing ... here's who said it, he's obviously not as bright as you are:

 

Amartya Sen: ‘Referendums are like opinion polls. Sometimes they’re very wrong’

 

Sen has garnered prizes and honours from all over the world – in particular the Nobel prize for economics, which he won in 1998.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/jan/22/amartya-sen-brexit-trump-press-freedom

[AlexRich]

6 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I wondered how long before the remoaning brigade came out to defend and champion the cause. it wasn't very long. It is funny how certain posters and people always use the line of well referendums have no real value, especially when it goes against them.  It doesn't really matter does it as the referendum has been done and an outcome happened. People should deal with it.

 

 

So the 'vote' is always right and should never be questioned? When people vote the result is always the one with the best possible outcome? 

 

Germany in the 1930's might just be an aberration then?

 

 

 

[SaintLouisBlues]

13 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Amartya Sen: ‘Referendums are like opinion polls. Sometimes they’re very wrong’

I'm sure he also knew that you can get any result you like, even one that contradicts the previous one, from exactly the same population because it's all in how you frame the question

[AlexRich]

5 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

I'm sure he also knew that you can get any result you like, even one that contradicts the previous one, from exactly the same population because it's all in how you frame the question

No doubt ... but unlike LG, he's no fool!

[Get Real]

Sure, it "May" be time to talk about it. "May"be it should have been some talking before it happened.

[sidgy]

 
... maybe it's that young people are more tolerant of different nationalities, and don't have a memory of some golden age in the UK that never existed. Perhaps they realise that the UK needs a larger population to maintain funding for things like pensions, NHS, and care for the elderly, the financial burden of which will fall on them. The vote was about immigration, period. Now those same young people will be going back to the 1970's, thanks to the vote of the older, "wiser" generation, many of whom won't be alive to see the mess. 
 
Referendums are just opinion polls ... like opinion polls they can be wrong but are not as easily reversible. 

Or maybe those same young people were not concerned enough to bother to go out vote ! I didn't either btw,living in Thailand,I knew the value of sterling would fall so I would be the proverbial turkey voting for Xmas. However if I was still living in UK, I would probably have voted leave


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[AlexRich]

2 minutes ago, sidgy said:

Or maybe those same young people were not concerned enough to bother to go out vote ! I didn't either btw,living in Thailand,I knew the value of sterling would fall so I would be the proverbial turkey voting for Xmas. However if I was still living in UK, I would probably have voted leave


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I guess that's true of all young people ... they don't tend to vote until later, I suspect they thought we'd stay in the EU. 

 

As for GBP.Trump's doing a good job on weakening the dollar with his protectionist policies, so GBP might recover.

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

The real brexit winners.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/shell-dividends-11-billion-2016-uk-companies-helped-by-brexit-a7541946.html

Haha! The Brexiteers must running around and tripping up trying to work out if this is good or bad and how this will benefit the impoverished masses ?

[Grouse]

55 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I guess that's true of all young people ... they don't tend to vote until later, I suspect they thought we'd stay in the EU. 

 

As for GBP.Trump's doing a good job on weakening the dollar with his protectionist policies, so GBP might recover.

Might is right!

[rockingrobin]

Authority from Parliament required, 8-3

[jpinx]

31 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

Authority from Parliament required, 8-3

Thanks :)  Now to see the written judgement - to give everyone something more to argue about :)

[Grouse]

10 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Thanks :)  Now to see the written judgement - to give everyone something more to argue about :)

Nothing to argue about; the law lords have slapped down May!

 

I can't abide arrogance ?

[pitrevie]

44 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

Authority from Parliament required, 8-3

 

What a surprise, the Supreme court has confirmed that Parliament is supreme. If Cromwell had still been around he could have told them that.

[sidgy]

I'm not going to discuss distributions and probabilities again. There are 10 different types of people; either you understand binary or you don't. The correlation was with tertiary education not intelligence. What exactly is your point?

I don't recall asking you to discuss anything


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[Rimmer]

Multiple duplicate posts have been removed also one flame from the same poster

[sidgy]

I don't recall asking you to discuss anything


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Have I ever asked anyone anything? Yes Grouse I have, I did not however ask you, after seeing how you reply to people,with your SHOUTY posts and condescending manner,I don't think I will in future either.


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[sandyf]

8 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I wondered how long before the remoaning brigade came out to defend and champion the cause. it wasn't very long. It is funny how certain posters and people always use the line of well referendums have no real value, especially when it goes against them.  It doesn't really matter does it as the referendum has been done and an outcome happened. People should deal with it.

 

Of course outcomes happen but not always valid.

What is the difference between brexit and a rigged horse race? One would be allowed a stewards enquiry.

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, pitrevie said:

 

What a surprise, the Supreme court has confirmed that Parliament is supreme. If Cromwell had still been around he could have told them that.

Quite, the constitution was put in place by the people and it has been made quite clear that the government cannot circumvent the will of the people.

[pitrevie]

8 hours ago, sandyf said:

Quite, the constitution was put in place by the people and it has been made quite clear that the government cannot circumvent the will of the people.

The UK does not have a constitution and the people are represented by those they send to Parliament who then get to decide. That has been so since the time of Cromwell who established the supremacy of Parliament. Pariament often goes against the will of the people as Thatcher once observed we would never have abolished capital punishment if Parliament couldn't circumvent the will of the people.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, pitrevie said:

The UK does not have a constitution and the people are represented by those they send to Parliament who then get to decide. That has been so since the time of Cromwell who established the supremacy of Parliament. Pariament often goes against the will of the people as Thatcher once observed we would never have abolished capital punishment if Parliament couldn't circumvent the will of the people.

So if the UK does not have a constitution the Supreme Court got it wrong.

 

"So any change in the law to give effect to the referendum must be made in the only way permitted by the UK constitution, namely by an Act of Parliament.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-supreme-court-ruling-judges-defy-theresa-may-and-hand-power-to-parliament-a7542406.html

[sandyf]

Reality check.

 

Mr Williams also said that Washington would be “delighted” to see any kind of disruption because US competitors would take “every opportunity to undermine the success of Airbus”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-news-airbus-boss-tom-williams-aircraft-manufacturer-dangerous-phase-free-movement-a7543946.html

[pitrevie]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

So if the UK does not have a constitution the Supreme Court got it wrong.

 

"So any change in the law to give effect to the referendum must be made in the only way permitted by the UK constitution, namely by an Act of Parliament.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-supreme-court-ruling-judges-defy-theresa-may-and-hand-power-to-parliament-a7542406.html

 

During the Supreme Court hearing, campaigners argued that denying the UK Parliament a vote was undemocratic and a breach of long-standing constitutional principles. However feel free to refer me to any document that you consider the constitution of the UK.

[sandyf]

7 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

 

During the Supreme Court hearing, campaigners argued that denying the UK Parliament a vote was undemocratic and a breach of long-standing constitutional principles. However feel free to refer me to any document that you consider the constitution of the UK.

Just because it is unwritten does not mean it does not exist, as confirmed by the Supreme Court.

[pitrevie]

4 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Just because it is unwritten does not mean it does not exist, as confirmed by the Supreme Court.

 

The supreme court was referring to an Act of Parliament which is needed to give effect to this. Its unwritten because such a thing does not exist but anyone can challenge a decision that is in breach of long standing constitutional principles which is what happened here. Note they could not refer to some article in the Constitution only a  breach of long standing constitutional principles

[rockingrobin]

57 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

 

During the Supreme Court hearing, campaigners argued that denying the UK Parliament a vote was undemocratic and a breach of long-standing constitutional principles. However feel free to refer me to any document that you consider the constitution of the UK.

Bill of Rights 1689

[pitrevie]

4 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

Bill of Rights 1689

For most people, especially abroad, the United Kingdom does not have a constitution at all in the sense most commonly used around the world — a document of fundamental importance setting out the structure of government and its relationship with its citizens. All modern states, saving only the UK, New Zealand and Israel, have adopted a documentary constitution of this kind, the first and most complete model being that of the United States of America in 1788. However, in Britain we certainly say that we have a constitution, but it is one that exists in an abstract sense, comprising a host of diverse laws, practices and conventions that have evolved over a long period of time. The key landmark is the Bill of Rights (1689), which established the supremacy of Parliament over the Crown following the forcible replacement of King James II (r.1685–88) by William III (r.1689–1702) and Mary (r.1689–94) in the Glorious Revolution (1688).

Professor Robert Blackburn. Professor of Constitutional Law

[rockingrobin]

Deleted

Edited January 25, 2017 by rockingrobin

[Laughing Gravy]

20 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Glad you find it amusing ... here's who said it, he's obviously not as bright as you are:

Actually it was you who said it first and then later stated it had come from someone else. Just because he has wrote books doesn't mean her is brighter, right or anything. He may just be totally out of reach of the people.