May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Jip99]

7 minutes ago, adammike said:

Got a link to that,I have not seen that report and I do read them online, unless it was in the express or sun I do not go there.

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/15/number-eu-nationals-working-britain-reaches-record-level-official/

[Grouse]

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42014209

 

of course the munchkins will disagree

[Grouse]

20 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/15/number-eu-nationals-working-britain-reaches-record-level-official/

Statisticians say the estimates relate to the number of people in employment and should not be used as a proxy for flows of foreign migrants into the country.

 

I'll bet tea chest futures are up

[aright]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2017/11/leader-brexit-betrayal

 

This is worth reading 

 

It addresses my deepest concerns about the Komodo ( read Dyson) branch of the Cons grasping for a dystopian future for the UK. At YOUR expense.

 

Not too late

I have no such worries re the Cons but one of the reasons I voted out was worries about a dystopian future as a result of the unelected ruling EU Cabal 

[adammike]

1 hour ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/15/number-eu-nationals-working-britain-reaches-record-level-official/

It was in the Telegraph not all over the papers,that paper is the official organ of Brexit, it is and has been anti EU for as long as I can remember it's had on its front-page every day and I do mean every day an anti EU or anti euro story,it may actually be true but I take every thing I read about Europe in the Telegraph with great scepticism. 

 

[adammike]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Statisticians say the estimates relate to the number of people in employment and should not be used as a proxy for flows of foreign migrants into the country.

 

I'll bet tea chest futures are up

Don't you just love " estimates" 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, adammike said:

Don't you just love " estimates" 

No but l like tea.

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, adammike said:

It was in the Telegraph not all over the papers,that paper is the official organ of Brexit, it is and has been anti EU for as long as I can remember it's had on its front-page every day and I do mean every day an anti EU or anti euro story,it may actually be true but I take every thing I read about Europe in the Telegraph with great scepticism. 

 

How do you take the cr@p posted daily in the Indy and Grauniad on brexit?

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Khun Han said:

How do you take the cr@p posted daily in the Indy and Grauniad on brexit?

With a beer usually

[nontabury]

7 hours ago, adammike said:

It was in the Telegraph not all over the papers,that paper is the official organ of Brexit, it is and has been anti EU for as long as I can remember it's had on its front-page every day and I do mean every day an anti EU or anti euro story,it may actually be true but I take every thing I read about Europe in the Telegraph with great scepticism. 

 

 

Instead of critising the newspaper that printed the story. Why do you not comment on the actual report, that originates from the Office of National Statistics.

Could it be that,this report shows that unlike the fifth columnist/ remoaners

many Europeans have confidence in an independent U.K.

[Jip99]

8 hours ago, adammike said:

It was in the Telegraph not all over the papers,that paper is the official organ of Brexit, it is and has been anti EU for as long as I can remember it's had on its front-page every day and I do mean every day an anti EU or anti euro story,it may actually be true but I take every thing I read about Europe in the Telegraph with great scepticism. 

 

 

 

 

You must be running out of newspapers to read ...

 

In addition to the Telegraph, Express and Sun you may need to add the Independent...

 

 

Listen to Noel...

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/noel-gallagher-brexit-remainers-get-over-liam-oasis-a8058766.html

 

 

 

 

 

[aright]

If you feel British democracy is falling apart, don't worry: everything is working as intended.

 

Some perspective at last.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/feel-like-british-democracy-falling-apart-dont-worry-everything/

[Jip99]

As the Mods decided that we didn't need a thread solely for pro-Brexit views, I post my thoughts here...

 

 

 

 

I am fed up to the back teeth with the constant bickering, name calling and insults on the Brexit threads...... (some of the Brexiteers are not much better at times  )

 

There is no doubt that the subject of Brexit polarises people and there is ample evidence to show that the losing side have not accepted defeat graciously. In days gone by 'the loser' would have shrugged their shoulders and knuckled down in doing what they could to make the best of it for Britain. They would campaign for changes to any system/policies that they felt for unfair or could be bettered.. That is how democracy works.

Not these days.

 

At the first sign of defeat the losing side are bleating, crying foul, demanding recounts/second referendum and doing nothing to further the cause of the nation. Celebrities are made out of previous nobodies like Gina Miller etc, old fogies like Ken Clarke latch onto a final opportunity for a political swansong.

 

Those who voted Leave (the majority) cannot open their mouths without being accused of being intellectually inferior by Remoaners and being selfish for voting to leave.

 

I see it somewhat differently,  I voted selflessly to leave in the belief that it would provide a better long-term future for my children. I knew that I would suffer financially in the short-term as a result of exchange rate fears/speculation.

 

I didn't vote with any racism in my mind; I am someone who believes that immigration has, over the years, enriched the culture of the UK and provided much needed employment and variety of services. I love Europe, I am in no way anti-European - freedom of movement gave me many travel opportunities, and many others job opportunities and education advantages. There is no doubt that EEC/EU has been instrumental in forcing the UK down a more social path and influenced Health & Safety and employment rights.

 

I didn't believe that the NHS would benefit by 350m a week..... I did believe that the UK would have better control over it's budgets and could determine where it's money was spent.

 

I detest Tommy Robinson as much as I detest Jeremy Corbyn. I don't believe that all Muslims are terrorists, but I do think that all attrocities in the UK have been perpetrated by Muslims in the name of their religion - that issue needs addressing specifically. I think Nigel Farage has done a brilliant job in bringing Brexit to the fore and without him the excesses of the EU would not have been highlighted - but, I no more want him as Prime Minister than I do Theresa May.

 

What I detested was what the EU had become. A previous chummy club of 9 similar nations, grouping together for economic and security benefits had become an unyielding monster.

 

No, of course, it was not all bad - but it had become bad enough for me to no longer want to be a member of that club. The referendum gave me, and  17,410,741 others, the opportunity to vote to leave.

 

That we did - and won a democratic majority to do so. The government promised to be bound by the referendum and so it asserted "Brexit means Brexit".

 

There we are, we have embarked on the most momentous political exercise in living memory.

 

Unfortunately, instead of all parties now working together in the best interests of the country which they represent, or live in, we have this modern division and divisive attitude that says... "We lost, that is not fair , we are going to do all we can to scupper Brexit".... the same is happening in the USA - a president (like him or loathe him) is democratically elected and the losing side are doing all they can to undermine his position. No unity whatsoever - UK/USA. two great nations.......... bollorks..... 2 divided nations...

 

This attitude pervades the Thai Visa forums and has made contributions meaningless. What I would like to see is a forward looking approach from members who can  comment. discuss, debate, berate ...the issues, processes, the opportunities, the challenges without fear of someone saying.... your are wrong, you are uneducated, black is white blah blah blah.  

I remain convinced that Brexit will happen and the eventual outcome for the UK will be very positive. There is a minefield (with additional mines being deployed daily) to go through before the finish line can be crossed.

 

There is a wide divergence between Brexiteers as a group..... those extreme right wingers who want borders closed, Muslims expelled and mosques knocked down - perhaps they want to build a Trump wall !!

Personally, I would like to see much of freedom of movement retained - with a firm eye/hand on numbers, perhaps against a variable quota system. I want to see what people think about dealing with refugees - I am all for controlled humanitarianism, but I don't want to be dictated to on policy by Brussels or anywhere else.

 

Above all, I want to see how we fare with a fairly clean sheet of paper. I have always believed that is something is not working, or is cancerous, you cut it out and try and work with what you have - if necessary, start with a clean sheet and construct how you want things to be. The UK has voted to have the chance to do that - let's hope the politicians don't fork it up any more than they already have done.

[SheungWan]

On 11/16/2017 at 6:40 PM, aright said:

Any intelligent solutions from someone who seems to struggle with more than one sentence at a time and reacts to anything he disagrees with belittlement? I am pleased to say you will never be the melody in the symphony of my life.

If forum Hard Brexiteers lives resembled anything even vaguely sounding like a symphony it would be something pompous and avowedly self-referential played by the Portsmouth Sinfonia.

 

[SheungWan]

12 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

As the Mods decided that we didn't need a thread solely for pro-Brexit views, I post my thoughts here...

 

 

 

 

I am fed up to the back teeth with the constant bickering, name calling and insults on the Brexit threads...... (some of the Brexiteers are not much better at times  )

 

There is no doubt that the subject of Brexit polarises people and there is ample evidence to show that the losing side have not accepted defeat graciously. In days gone by 'the loser' would have shrugged their shoulders and knuckled down in doing what they could to make the best of it for Britain. They would campaign for changes to any system/policies that they felt for unfair or could be bettered.. That is how democracy works.

Not these days.

 

At the first sign of defeat the losing side are bleating, crying foul, demanding recounts/second referendum and doing nothing to further the cause of the nation. Celebrities are made out of previous nobodies like Gina Miller etc, old fogies like Ken Clarke latch onto a final opportunity for a political swansong.

 

Those who voted Leave (the majority) cannot open their mouths without being accused of being intellectually inferior by Remoaners and being selfish for voting to leave.

 

I see it somewhat differently,  I voted selflessly to leave in the belief that it would provide a better long-term future for my children. I knew that I would suffer financially in the short-term as a result of exchange rate fears/speculation.

 

I didn't vote with any racism in my mind; I am someone who believes that immigration has, over the years, enriched the culture of the UK and provided much needed employment and variety of services. I love Europe, I am in no way anti-European - freedom of movement gave me many travel opportunities, and many others job opportunities and education advantages. There is no doubt that EEC/EU has been instrumental in forcing the UK down a more social path and influenced Health & Safety and employment rights.

 

I didn't believe that the NHS would benefit by 350m a week..... I did believe that the UK would have better control over it's budgets and could determine where it's money was spent.

 

I detest Tommy Robinson as much as I detest Jeremy Corbyn. I don't believe that all Muslims are terrorists, but I do think that all attrocities in the UK have been perpetrated by Muslims in the name of their religion - that issue needs addressing specifically. I think Nigel Farage has done a brilliant job in bringing Brexit to the fore and without him the excesses of the EU would not have been highlighted - but, I no more want him as Prime Minister than I do Theresa May.

 

What I detested was what the EU had become. A previous chummy club of 9 similar nations, grouping together for economic and security benefits had become an unyielding monster.

 

No, of course, it was not all bad - but it had become bad enough for me to no longer want to be a member of that club. The referendum gave me, and  17,410,741 others, the opportunity to vote to leave.

 

That we did - and won a democratic majority to do so. The government promised to be bound by the referendum and so it asserted "Brexit means Brexit".

 

There we are, we have embarked on the most momentous political exercise in living memory.

 

Unfortunately, instead of all parties now working together in the best interests of the country which they represent, or live in, we have this modern division and divisive attitude that says... "We lost, that is not fair , we are going to do all we can to scupper Brexit".... the same is happening in the USA - a president (like him or loathe him) is democratically elected and the losing side are doing all they can to undermine his position. No unity whatsoever - UK/USA. two great nations.......... bollorks..... 2 divided nations...

 

This attitude pervades the Thai Visa forums and has made contributions meaningless. What I would like to see is a forward looking approach from members who can  comment. discuss, debate, berate ...the issues, processes, the opportunities, the challenges without fear of someone saying.... your are wrong, you are uneducated, black is white blah blah blah.  

I remain convinced that Brexit will happen and the eventual outcome for the UK will be very positive. There is a minefield (with additional mines being deployed daily) to go through before the finish line can be crossed.

 

There is a wide divergence between Brexiteers as a group..... those extreme right wingers who want borders closed, Muslims expelled and mosques knocked down - perhaps they want to build a Trump wall !!

Personally, I would like to see much of freedom of movement retained - with a firm eye/hand on numbers, perhaps against a variable quota system. I want to see what people think about dealing with refugees - I am all for controlled humanitarianism, but I don't want to be dictated to on policy by Brussels or anywhere else.

 

Above all, I want to see how we fare with a fairly clean sheet of paper. I have always believed that is something is not working, or is cancerous, you cut it out and try and work with what you have - if necessary, start with a clean sheet and construct how you want things to be. The UK has voted to have the chance to do that - let's hope the politicians don't fork it up any more than they already have done.

A lame out of date speech from the What I Want What I Really Really Want Party.

 

 

[Srikcir]

17 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

the same is happening in the USA - a president (like him or loathe him) is democratically elected and the losing side are doing all they can to undermine his position. No unity whatsoever

A very poorly thought out and faulty analogy.

But no denying not only is there disruptive disunity among the UK polity but also within the government. 

[Jip99]

17 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

A lame out of date speech from the What I Want What I Really Really Want Party.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Predictable, but thanks for proving my point.

[talahtnut]

15 hours ago, SheungWan said:

If forum Hard Brexiteers lives resembled anything even vaguely sounding like a symphony it would be something pompous and avowedly self-referential played by the Portsmouth Sinfonia.

 

On the other hand,  this reminds me of the idiots in Brussels

 

[aright]

53 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

If forum Hard Brexiteers lives resembled anything even vaguely sounding like a symphony it would be something pompous and avowedly self-referential played by the Portsmouth Sinfonia.

 

I always think self referential is such a pompous word.

As for classical music , I doubt you know the difference between an oboe and an onion.

[vogie]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

If forum Hard Brexiteers lives resembled anything even vaguely sounding like a symphony it would be something pompous and avowedly self-referential played by the Portsmouth Sinfonia.

 

There's one thing about it SW, you will never be out of work, tutu workers are in very short supply at the Royal Opera house, just tell them I sent you.

[aright]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

There's one thing about it SW, you will never be out of work, tutu workers are in very short supply at the Royal Opera house, just tell them I sent you.

If they turn him down at the ROH he could go to the Globe. Guaranteed job as Lady Macbeth.

At the Globe he might be bard though........I'm shameless today.

[vogie]

22 minutes ago, aright said:

If they turn him down at the ROH he could go to the Globe. Guaranteed job as Lady Macbeth.

At the Globe he might be bard though........I'm shameless today.

If he turns up with his dressmaking degree and sewing machine, he should be fine, although there are now vacancies at Opera North, the money is poor but you get free kennelling for your whippets and a signed photo of Sir Geoffrey Boycott.

[Khun Han]

So much for brexit squeezing UK inc's public budget:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42034392

[tomacht8]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

So much for brexit squeezing UK inc's public budget:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42034392

Do not worry there is enough money.
If the UK ever started taxing all its super-rich, taxrefugees , tax evaders, and offshore letterbox residents properly, the UK would be swimming in money and there would be more left over for the public.

Look at the GINI coefficient, the unequal distribution between poor and rich,
The unequal distribution of income.
That would certainly be the lever.
But this topic, many Brexit politicians does not like it at all.

Edited November 18, 2017 by tomacht8

[adammike]

I am listening to radio4 and surprise surprise they are discussing Brexit, Jacob Reese Mogg has just said in answer to the fact that he wants the 350m extra used for the NHS, " I never wanted the leave campaign to promise the 350m to the NHS but they did" straight from the horses mouth.

 

 

[SheungWan]

Telegraph reporting that Govt considering dumping David Davis as chief Brexit negotiator. Not surprising as the man has been completely out of his depth over the last few months. Unable to negotiate himself out of a paper bag. Much like the forum Hard Brexiteer contributors really. All bluster and empty platitudes.

Edited November 18, 2017 by SheungWan

[aright]

Belief is a wonderful way to pass the time until the facts come in.

 

 

[Scott]

A number of nonsense posts and replies have been removed.  

 

There have been complaints about the amount of trolling allowed, so you can anticipate warnings and suspensions if it continues.  

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Scott said:

A number of nonsense posts and replies have been removed.  

 

There have been complaints about the amount of trolling allowed, so you can anticipate warnings and suspensions if it continues.  

 

I think I've said this before, but you've been remarkably tolerant in these discussions, and we've all been rewarded by discussions which are still interesting and mostly ontopic after more than seven hundred pages. I, for one, enjoy a bit of banter back and forth so long as it doesn't descend into acrimony/nastiness, though I understand it can be a very fine line. Keep up the great work Scott .

[adammike]

4 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Telegraph reporting that Govt considering dumping David Davis as chief Brexit negotiator. Not surprising as the man has been completely out of his depth over the last few months. Unable to negotiate himself out of a paper bag. Much like the forum Hard Brexiteer contributors really. All bluster and empty platitudes.

He has said Brexit will be the last thing he does in politics " I will retire when we leave the EU ".