Young children suffering due to being pushed too hard in school: psychiatrist

[Ace of Pop]

Kids ain't got much chance these days ,the Teachers grew up in the entitled era..No longer are there Clever N Lazy anymore ,just excuses n p.c. wimps


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[cumgranosalum]

 

40 minutes ago, bontang said:

Re International Schools pushing Students to the limit or should i say very close to the Edge,

I can only speak for my daughter @ an International School in Chonburi district,

The School has high expectations & do over load the Students not with just simple subjects i.e Algbera Math, Sicience, Chemistary, Biology, plus many more high tech Subjects, My Daughter day starts @ 06.00am & she studies into the night up to 12 midnight,  As you know the International Schools are expensive I dont mind that so much but the Teachers handball 45% of their work to the Parents & the Students, Then they have their Social Events after School between 18.00 & 21.00 & expect to see all Students to attend,

All of those social events are all in the name of Money for the School, So are the School Management  realy thinking about the Students welfare,  Not really ,

 

That sounds awful - verging on abuse - I would take my kids out of there in a flash.

[maoro2013]

Where exactly does this happen? Surely not Thailand where classroom times are shortened, and I don't see my three kids doing much in  the way of homework.

[Bluespunk]

6 minutes ago, Ace of Pop said:

Kids ain't got much chance these days ,the Teachers grew up in the entitled era..No longer are there Clever N Lazy anymore ,just excuses n p.c. wimps


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Please avoid education as a career option. 

[performance]

Now I have hurd it all lol. ls the quack employed by the regime by any chance. Is near impossible to be pushed hard here. The standards are so low. More to the point the government would benefit from a less intelligent generation.

[DavisH]

Thai teacher syndrome....make it harder so they will pay more attention / learn more. There is very little leeway for kids who struggle or even the average student. Kids fall behind, their parents panic, then send them to EXTRA classes after school (if they can pay). Only the wealthy can afford to get a "good" education, thus maintaining the status quo. The system has so many problems...from entrance exams to kindy, archaic curriculum and teaching methods, cram schools, low value of the GPA, multitudes of uni entrance exams...the list goes on. 

[sweatalot]

45 minutes ago, wvavin said:

This educational system developes more stupid students than anywhere elses in the world.

I'm not sure if this is true.

But it comes close for sure

[indothai]

Nice try Doc, next time try to blame on something concrete so the system can be corrected.  It's the school system in Thailand that preys on parents.  The end game for most parents is to have their children finish from a highly reputable university so they can be accepted at the top 10 companies in Thailand.  It's the idea of getting out of the farm and to work in the office for an "easier" life.  So, it is common knowledge to have kids go to school very young and plan out their schools, from pre-school, middle school, high school, then university.  It's a link or a common link that leads to the top 10 companies here in Thailand.

 

Of the limitless possibilities that a child or person can achieve, we in Thailand only focus on the top 10 companies.  We are shaping our children not to be smart, but to be robots to cater for these top 10 companies.  This line of thinking is actually very common in the South East Asian Nations, very especially with the Chinese.

 

In this part of the world, we do not raise our children to become innovators, that is still USA, UK, and parts of Europe's best qualities, we in this region raise children to become robots.

 

It is acceptable, because it is the adults/parents that created this environment.

[joeyg]

4 hours ago, NongKhaiKid said:

Just what are they pushed too hard to learn as they never seem to benefit much as can be seen as they progress through the so called educational system ?

I'm sure the school syllabus will now be amended to include subjects linked to the current mood in Thailand but which will not be of much benefit in later life.

How can you be sure?

[joeyg]

27 minutes ago, sweatalot said:

I'm not sure if this is true.

But it comes close for sure

Got stats?  How about my home country  America the great... Not much has changed since 2000, when the U.S. scored along the OECD average in every subject: This year, the U.S. scores below average in math and ranks 17th among the 34 OECD countries. It scores close to the OECD average in science and reading and ranks 21st in science and 17th in reading.

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/12/american-schools-vs-the-world-expensive-unequal-bad-at-math/281983/

 

Humm Thailand ranked not much different percentile than the US. fascinating... 

Education[edit]

• OECD Programme for International Student Assessment: Thailand ranked 47 of 76 countries for average performance on student achievement tests in math and science. Other ASEAN nations in the survey included Singapore (ranked 1 of 76), Vietnam (ranked 12 of 76), Malaysia (ranked 52 of 76), and Indonesia (ranked 69 of 76)

 

Edited October 24, 2016 by joeyg
content spelling

[cumgranosalum]

36 minutes ago, performance said:

Now I have hurd it all lol. ls the quack employed by the regime by any chance. Is near impossible to be pushed hard here. The standards are so low. More to the point the government would benefit from a less intelligent generation.

You appear not to have any idea of how education is carried out in Thailand.  this is not to do with "standars" - it is to do with "pushing" students te two aren't even mutually compatible.

You also seem unaware of how much time and money goes into "extra" tuition for kids - especially in middle class families.

[performance]

2 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

You appear not to have any idea of how education is carried out in Thailand.  this is not to do with "standars" - it is to do with "pushing" students te two aren't even mutually compatible.

You also seem unaware of how much time and money goes into "extra" tuition for kids - especially in middle class families.

Funny good try. I have many falang friends with kids. The standard is terrible. Learn about the HISO  PEOPLE 

[joeyg]

4 hours ago, NongKhaiKid said:

Just what are they pushed too hard to learn as they never seem to benefit much as can be seen as they progress through the so called educational system ?

I'm sure the school syllabus will now be amended to include subjects linked to the current mood in Thailand but which will not be of much benefit in later life.

How can you be sure?

[wlcart]

This is a complicated issue. I have 20 years experience in education, half in the west, and half in Thailand. I also have two kids in school here and one also attended school in the US for a while.  I am still unclear about "what is best".

 

My kid's school in Thailand is actually pretty rigorous, but I do worry about critical thinking skills. 

 

There are issues of education in every country, not just Thailand.

 

We decided to educate our kids here, for at least a while, so they can learn to read and write both Thai and English. 

 

Bottom line, parents! I do not expect any school anywhere to always know what is best for my kids. I don't even always know, but I demand from myself the effort to try and guide them no matter what. 

 

I suggest TV members not be so quick to judge, although that is usually not the case. 

[mikebell]

My wife's niece was set the following assignment: 'Find out all you can about French Impressionists.  Irrespective of if your family has internet just go to a local shop and pay for internet time and colour printing.'  Her product ran to fifteen pages.  It was returned with a tick on the last page.  I asked her to have the teacher help by naming one such French painter.  'He replied, 'Salvador Dali!'

[timber]

Education begins at home.  Have seen a lot of battles with parents trying to have teachers do more and more.  Parents normally are responsible for the child's desire to learn.

When a child loves to learn then the sky is the limit, but have to teach the love of learning.  You will have to adapt to different teachers in working with your children's schooling.

Have observed parents working with their kids with love and the children want to make their parents happy and appreciative of their new skills.  You don't have to be a professional

to do this.  You have to create a priority in your time, learn the skills, and show the appreciation.  The kids want to make you happy, but easier the earllier you get involved.

The concept for very young children is to open windows, rather than push through doors.

[Pinot]

1 hour ago, bontang said:

Re International Schools pushing Students to the limit or should i say very close to the Edge,

I can only speak for my daughter @ an International School in Chonburi district,

The School has high expectations & do over load the Students not with just simple subjects i.e Algbera Math, Sicience, Chemistary, Biology, plus many more high tech Subjects, My Daughter day starts @ 06.00am & she studies into the night up to 12 midnight,  As you know the International Schools are expensive I dont mind that so much but the Teachers handball 45% of their work to the Parents & the Students, Then they have their Social Events after School between 18.00 & 21.00 & expect to see all Students to attend,

All of those social events are all in the name of Money for the School, So are the School Management  realy thinking about the Students welfare,  Not really ,

 

 

I see out little six year old next door neighbor going through the same thing and I'm disgusted. The child comes home after 12 hours of school completely exhausted. Whatever happened to play? 

 

It's hard to see any path to change this ineffective and yes, even cruel system. Thank Buddha I wasn't raised in Thailand. 

[atyclb]

2 hours ago, cardinalblue said:

Thailand not used to a competitive school system....a proper school system is designed to weed out the ones who didn't earn on merit...

 

buying grades and placement alive and well in thailand...I flunked  numbers of medical school and nursing school students only to see them being passed along to the next year...

 

educational reform is badly needed but it starts with a different mindset that's currently lacking....

 

 

what subject(s) were you teaching medical students?

[NongKhaiKid]

40 minutes ago, joeyg said:

How can you be sure?

How can you be sure they won't be ?

[seajae]

when even the so called top schools for learning fail to actually teach the kids properly we have to wonder. Our daughter sat exams to get into the best school in the south, a class of 30 only that are supposed to recieve  higher education from better qualifies teachers but it simply does not happen, she still has to attend after school specialty classes every nigh and also on weekends to ensure her knowledge is good enough to qualify for the university shew wants to attend. The fact that thai teachers are themselves not well educated or qualified doesnt help, the students basically learn bugger all at school in most classes, the only reason for them to study harder is because they want to make something of themselves. Improve the teaching/teachers and maybe we would see the students not having to do so much extra learning that they should have in the actual school classes but dont get.

[Veeke]

2 hours ago, BlindMagician said:

Adults are told what to think, so why bother with the kids.

Line of least resistance.

Telling the big story in minimum of words!

[alex8912]

52 minutes ago, joeyg said:

Got stats?  How about my home country  America the great... Not much has changed since 2000, when the U.S. scored along the OECD average in every subject: This year, the U.S. scores below average in math and ranks 17th among the 34 OECD countries. It scores close to the OECD average in science and reading and ranks 21st in science and 17th in reading.

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/12/american-schools-vs-the-world-expensive-unequal-bad-at-math/281983/

 

Humm Thailand ranked not much different percentile than the US. fascinating... 

Education[edit]

• OECD Programme for International Student Assessment: Thailand ranked 47 of 76 countries for average performance on student achievement tests in math and science. Other ASEAN nations in the survey included Singapore (ranked 1 of 76), Vietnam (ranked 12 of 76), Malaysia (ranked 52 of 76), and Indonesia (ranked 69 of 76)

 

I think "averages" of a country with 325 million people and in turn way more school age children isn't a good comparison at all.  What I'd like to see compared are the top 10 or 20% of  students in different countries. You know damn well that the top 10% of American or British or many other countries students are going to kick butt in their future regarding both science and math and in turn innovations and salary for example than the top 10 or even 5% of Thai students. I bet the differences are huge. 

Edited October 24, 2016 by alex8912

[fullcave]

The kids spend minimum eight hours a day in school of which actual time learning is not more than about 15 minutes.  Teachers should spend less time in classrooms and more time educating themselves and building teaching curriculums that actually benefit the students. 

[joeyg]

22 minutes ago, NongKhaiKid said:

How can you be sure they won't be ?

I never said I was sure they wouldn't be, or about anything else for that matter.  How can you say?  "I'm sure the school syllabus will now be amended to include subjects linked to the current mood in Thailand but which will not be of much benefit in later life."

[bontang]

2 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Is this school accredited by CIS or any other international education body? If not I'd walk away from it...

Yes it' a Member of Council of International School,

[BlindMagician]

3 hours ago, grumbleweed said:

From my experience, Thais have a "The more crap you throw at a wall, the more will stick" attitude. With quantity giving way to quality. If the Thai approach worked, with the amount of hours they study, Thailand would top the academic league.

 

Essentially the poor kids are caught in a pincer movement, between their ambitious parents and a morally bankrupt business sector who aren't exactly shy when it comes to exploiting a need

 

And all this before we begin with the failings of the education system itself

The problem is, every wall has its limits, not just in terms of capacity to retain the sticky stuff, but its resistance to impact and static load strength, plus corrosion, so the walls here are mostly crumbling or disappeared altogether, leaving a near zero retention capability. Plus, what little they can retain is made up of low value content...well, they are throwing "crap" right?

The whole thing needs a re ..... T H I N K.

But is a real effective education of the masses in the interests of the elite? Is Thailand ready for that? We all know how Kim likes to hichate don't we, with no "negative" comments. During all my contact with Uni level Thai personnel, the process of identifying things to improve was always labelled as being negative. They focused on the initial step "identify the problem" as being negative, and never focused on the following steps leading to implementing solutions to bring about improvements. Its their deeply inbuilt mentality, even among a lot of the Uni clever people. Very sad.

 

 

[hotchilli]

I have a friend with a daughter studying to be a teacher in Physical Education at University.

Now she is aged 22, she doesn't do a full day at any time, each day consists of only one or two 2 hour lessons if she's un-lucky!

Some of those are theoretical & some are learning the rules of the sport involved...

Most days she only attends for a half day with virtually no homework or free study periods required.

Like most students the work is shared/copied by the students via internet etc

The teacher reading classwork or homework must spot the same exact pages of work including the same mistakes!

She admitted to me earlier this year that a week before exam time the teacher left the questions in his desk draw & told the students he had to go do something & would be gone 15 minutes!!

Soon she will have her certificate in hand & will be teaching the next generation... god help Thailand in the real world!!

[Bluespunk]

38 minutes ago, bontang said:

Yes it' a Member of Council of International School,

Really? Then something has gone wrong somewhere. If they are behaving as you say they are then they are not following the accepted guidelines.  

 

I wonder if you can complain to CIS itself and outline your concerns?

[Docno]

2 hours ago, gr8fldanielle said:

Why not do as the best school system in the world does? The problem here is that  change is very difficult if not impossible and will remain that way until they can change their mindset that change may be a good thing.

Take it from the best school system in the world: http://www.smithsonianmag.com

 

Teachers in Finland spend fewer hours at school each day and spend less time in classrooms than American teachers. Teachers use the extra time to build curriculums and assess their students. Children spend far more time playing outside, even in the depths of winter. Homework is minimal. Compulsory schooling does not begin until age 7. “We have no hurry,” said Louhivuori. “Children learn better when they are ready. Why stress them out?”
 

Finland is top by some measures (well, the Pearson/BBC one), while Singapore comes in top in others. And Singapore has a brutally competitive, hard-driving educational system: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-06/best-education-system-putting-stress-on-singaporean-children/6831964.

 

Just 3 days ago, a coroner's report found that a 11-year boy had committed suicide because he'd not done well on exams: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/11-year-old-boy-s-suicide-due-to-exam-and-parental-stress-state/3225314.html 

[Scott]

I worked for nearly 25 years in education in Thailand.   There are a lot of problems with the educational system.   They vary from school to school, with some expecting too much and some expecting too little.   Here are some observations that affect learning:

 

First,   one of the things that schools do in most countries is instill values that will make a person a good citizen.   In Thailand, that means deference to authority and it means not questioning.   Those traits permeate the education system and are counterproductive to learning. 

 

Second, many classrooms are not air conditioned and are open.   This creates a very noisy environment and a lot of distractions.   Some years ago, a study was done about noise levels near schools and those with the most noise had lower overall test scores.   (Sorry I can quote the research).   I worked at a school that had both open classrooms and air conditioned ones.   The difference in the attention students were paying to their studies was amazing.   When I entered a closed classroom, it was quite, the students were paying attention and work was getting done.   The open classrooms were chaotic, students were talking and sometimes it was difficult to even hear the teacher.

 

Third, there is no consistent curriculum.   At the highest levels, the education is dictated by politicians, not people with experience in education.  

 

Fourth, nearly everything is based on tests and testing.   There are pre-pre texts, then pre-tests and then tests.   Often there is little actual comprehensive learning.  It's teaching to the test -- everything is geared toward being able to pass the test, not to know the material.   Without a comprehensive approach to learning, it's hard for students to ask questions, challenge or perform the other tasks that lead to critical thinking.  I have almost never seen a discussion about any issue in a Thai classroom.   It's chalk and talk, recite, memorize.   Test scores are the end all and be-all of education.  

 

Finally, students are started in academic learning way, way, way too young.  One school system I know of, actually has KG 1 and 2 students do written tests.   Even though they cannot read or write.   They sit at desks and the teachers give lectures.   There is little creative play.   There is structure and discipline and that is about it.  

 

More is not necessarily better.   There is a point of diminishing return and students need time for ideas and concepts to sink in, they need time to experiment and experience what they have learned.  

 

Most Thai classrooms are not conducive to actually learning.