Jean-Marie Le Pen’s immunity lifted over racial hatred charges

[webfact]

Jean-Marie Le Pen’s immunity lifted over racial hatred charges

Joanna Gill

 

 

STRASBOURG: -- The European Parliament has voted to lift the immunity of French far-right politician Jean-Marie Le Pen over charges of inciting racial hatred.

 

French prosecutors want to put him on trial for comments he made about several artists.

 

The legal affairs committee of the European Parliament stressed that parliamentary immunity “does not allow for slandering, libelling, inciting hatred or pronouncing statements attacking a person’s honour.”

 

The former leader of the far-right Front National party, posted a video online in 2014 in which he made anti-Semitic remarks about
about his prominent critics, in particular referencing French Jewish singer Patrick Bruel. It led to his exclusion from the party.

 

It is the fourth time the 88 year-old has had his immunity lifted. In 1998, Germany made the request after Le Pen famously called Nazi gas chambers ‘a detail of history’.

 

Front National leader Marine Le Pen condemned her father’s comments about Patrick Bruel at the time as ‘a political error’. However, she faces a challenge to her immunity. The President of the European Parliament, Martin Schulz said he had received a request to end her immunity on Monday. The dossier has been handed to the legal affairs committee.

 

 

-- © Copyright Euronews 2016-10-26

[jaidam]

So long as the law as regards 'hate speech' is applied universally and without favor to special groups, all is well. Currently some groups being able to give hate speeches all day long with nary an eyebrow raised from the police, while others like Mr Le Pen who said what could be construed as a minor insult, and the state acts like its the end of the world. Ridiculous.

 Look at Harvard proffessor Noel Ignatiev, who is allowed to say that all white males must immediately suicide themselves because they alone cause all the worlds problems? Hateful? Racist? No. its fine for some reason.

 This fair and universal application of law must also be applied to all levels of crime, from cases of pedophilia, marrying multiple women, raping young kids in swimming baths, violent mass sexual assaults etc where depending on the ethnic background of the perp is either or crime or not a crime at all . An inflammatory situation for any realists.

[Laughing Gravy]

Double standards I agree.  I once read an article stating the plan was to influx Europe of African and Middle Eastern men into Europe to dilute the European population and also to break down the cultural identity.  At the time I thought it was a crack pot conspiracy theory. I have now changed my opinion, as that is/has exactly happened. Le Pen and other far right politicians are growing in popularity such has been seen with UKIP, Hungary and Austria and, the far right will continue to grow, as they see that they are being overtaken. At one time I would have argued that they were 'nut jobs', once again I could not now.

[mokwit]

If they are not removed I think the cultural Marxists next step will be re-education camps for those who don't share the Liberal vision.

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Double standards I agree.  I once read an article stating the plan was to influx Europe of African and Middle Eastern men into Europe to dilute the European population and also to break down the cultural identity.  At the time I thought it was a crack pot conspiracy theory. I have now changed my opinion, as that is/has exactly happened. Le Pen and other far right politicians are growing in popularity such has been seen with UKIP, Hungary and Austria and, the far right will continue to grow, as they see that they are being overtaken. At one time I would have argued that they were 'nut jobs', once again I could not now.

The last time Europe saw such a growth in right wing politicians was the 1930's. After all, the world economy had collapsed and certain conspiracy theories were held to be vindicated. No actual evidence that these conspiracies existed but still...I guess that means that Mussolini and Hitler weren't nut jobs either.

[Laughing Gravy]

Winston Churchill was right wing he wasn't a nut job. He was a nationalist.

So your analogy is weak.

 

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Winston Churchill was right wing he wasn't a nut job. He was a nationalist.

So your analogy is weak.

 

I wasn't aware that Churchill was a fan of conspiracy theories. Or are you saying that he agreed with Mussolini and Hitler?

[Laughing Gravy]

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

I wasn't aware that Churchill was a fan of conspiracy theories. Or are you saying that he agreed with Mussolini and Hitler?

Putting words in my mouth again. Be a good chap and move on.

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, Laughing Gravy said:

Putting words in my mouth again. Be a good chap and move on.

Well, then, what was your point? You cite conspiracy theories to explain the influx of immigrants and then you invoke Winston Churchill to support your point. Huh? 

[Morch]

3 hours ago, jaidam said:

So long as the law as regards 'hate speech' is applied universally and without favor to special groups, all is well. Currently some groups being able to give hate speeches all day long with nary an eyebrow raised from the police, while others like Mr Le Pen who said what could be construed as a minor insult, and the state acts like its the end of the world. Ridiculous.

 Look at Harvard proffessor Noel Ignatiev, who is allowed to say that all white males must immediately suicide themselves because they alone cause all the worlds problems? Hateful? Racist? No. its fine for some reason.

 This fair and universal application of law must also be applied to all levels of crime, from cases of pedophilia, marrying multiple women, raping young kids in swimming baths, violent mass sexual assaults etc where depending on the ethnic background of the perp is either or crime or not a crime at all . An inflammatory situation for any realists.

 

Jean-Marie Le Pen is French.

Noel Ignatiev is a US citizen (and NOT a "Harvard professor").

 

Different countries, different laws.

 

Considering much of European right wing politics can be described as Euro-skepticism, is the argument really in favor of universal laws?

 

If I understand correctly, Le Pen's statement in question were not about the Muslims.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Morch

[yardrunner]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Double standards I agree.  I once read an article stating the plan was to influx Europe of African and Middle Eastern men into Europe to dilute the European population and also to break down the cultural identity.  At the time I thought it was a crack pot conspiracy theory. I have now changed my opinion, as that is/has exactly happened. Le Pen and other far right politicians are growing in popularity such has been seen with UKIP, Hungary and Austria and, the far right will continue to grow, as they see that they are being overtaken. At one time I would have argued that they were 'nut jobs', once again I could not now.

no they are not nut jobs it is just that they have all been awarded degrees by the university of Adolph and learned Mein Kamf and follow all its lessons

[rockingrobin]

40 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Jean-Marie Le Pen is French.

Noel Ignatiev is a US citizen (and NOT a "Harvard professor").

 

Different countries, different laws.

 

Considering much of European right wing politics can be described as Euro-skepticism, is the argument really in favor of universal laws?

 

If I understand correctly, Le Pen's statement in question were not about the Muslims.

The following article gives the quote

http://www.timesofisrael.com/jean-marie-le-pen-slammed-for-pun-with-holocaust-overtones/

[The Deerhunter]

4 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Double standards I agree.  I once read an article stating the plan was to influx Europe of African and Middle Eastern men into Europe to dilute the European population and also to break down the cultural identity.  At the time I thought it was a crack pot conspiracy theory. I have now changed my opinion, as that is/has exactly happened. Le Pen and other far right politicians are growing in popularity such has been seen with UKIP, Hungary and Austria and, the far right will continue to grow, as they see that they are being overtaken. At one time I would have argued that they were 'nut jobs', once again I could not now.

Surely Mr Le Pen can find other recipients for his racial attacks, more deserving than some Jewish artist.  Then he might get more public sympathy.  What a loser!!!

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, mokwit said:

If they are not removed I think the cultural Marxists next step will be re-education camps for those who don't share the Liberal vision.

I think a remedial reading course might be more in order.

[mokwit]

Yes I agree, Liberalism/Socialism is really kiddie comic book level stuff. Everybody lives happily ever after and fluffy kittens and bunny rabbits frolic in the sunlit uplands. Of course if you live in a leafy suburb and send your kids to a private school you can really believe this if you close your eyes.

[mokwit]

1 hour ago, yardrunner said:

no they are not nut jobs it is just that they have all been awarded degrees by the university of Adolph and learned Mein Kamf and follow all its lessons

Perhaps you can delineate precisely which "lessons" of Meing Kamp [sic] are being followed.

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Yes I agree, Liberalism/Socialism is really kiddie comic book level stuff. Everybody lives happily ever after and fluffy kittens and bunny rabbits frolic in the sunlit uplands. Of course if you live in a leafy suburb and send your kids to a private school you can really believe this if you close your eyes.

I think you just proved my point.

[mokwit]

 

5 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Perhaps you can delineate precisely which "lessons" of Meing Kamp [sic] are being followed.

Still waiting.

[minimoi]

5 hours ago, jaidam said:

So long as the law as regards 'hate speech' is applied universally and without favor to special groups, all is well. Currently some groups being able to give hate speeches all day long with nary an eyebrow raised from the police, while others like Mr Le Pen who said what could be construed as a minor insult, and the state acts like its the end of the world. Ridiculous.

 Look at Harvard proffessor Noel Ignatiev, who is allowed to say that all white males must immediately suicide themselves because they alone cause all the worlds problems? Hateful? Racist? No. its fine for some reason.

 This fair and universal application of law must also be applied to all levels of crime, from cases of pedophilia, marrying multiple women, raping young kids in swimming baths, violent mass sexual assaults etc where depending on the ethnic background of the perp is either or crime or not a crime at all . An inflammatory situation for any realists.

In USA the KKK and the Nazi can quietly parade in the street, I am quite glad this is not happening in France.

Le Pen racial rants are quite famous and fall in the hating and racism, not free speech...

I also heard a conspiracy that said the Occident went to Africa and Middle east to steal their ressources, put and remove the local governments as they please and that occidental companies are all over the african continent making billions while the locals are still starving...Some may say it is a conspiracy to dilute the black people living there to have more white people and brings their own religion there...this is a conspiracy....oh wait....nevermind!

Edited October 26, 2016 by minimoi

[elgordo38]

8 hours ago, jaidam said:

So long as the law as regards 'hate speech' is applied universally and without favor to special groups, all is well. Currently some groups being able to give hate speeches all day long with nary an eyebrow raised from the police, while others like Mr Le Pen who said what could be construed as a minor insult, and the state acts like its the end of the world. Ridiculous.

 Look at Harvard proffessor Noel Ignatiev, who is allowed to say that all white males must immediately suicide themselves because they alone cause all the worlds problems? Hateful? Racist? No. its fine for some reason.

 This fair and universal application of law must also be applied to all levels of crime, from cases of pedophilia, marrying multiple women, raping young kids in swimming baths, violent mass sexual assaults etc where depending on the ethnic background of the perp is either or crime or not a crime at all . An inflammatory situation for any realists.

Yes set the political lions on him. The hate speech law must be applied universally not selectively. These "here to protect you" laws are really giving governments unprecedented powers which they were designed to do. To protect you hardly.

"Truth must die so that propaganda lives"

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, minimoi said:

In USA the KKK and the Nazi can quietly parade in the street, I am quite glad this is not happening in France.

Le Pen racial rants are quite famous and fall in the hating and racism, not free speech...

I also heard a conspiracy that said the Occident went to Africa and Middle east to steal their ressources, put and remove the local governments as they please and that occidental companies are all over the african continent making billions while the locals are still starving...Some may say it is a conspiracy to dilute the black people living there to have more white people and brings their own religion there...this is a conspiracy....oh wait....nevermind!

 

Are the communist and neo-communist parties allowed to parade in French streets?

[minimoi]

10 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Are the communist and neo-communist parties allowed to parade in French streets?

I Highly doubt they can praise white supremacy or use racial profiling in their statements

[Baerboxer]

14 minutes ago, minimoi said:

I Highly doubt they can praise white supremacy or use racial profiling in their statements

 

but they can call for the overthrow of capitalism and the implementation of Stalinist style one party dictatorships enforced by secret police and labor camps without any trial for those who dare dissent?

 

Free speech - to be enjoyed by the extreme left, PC pseudo Liberals, and moderate center parties only. All other opinion must be condemned as vile Nazi racist and banned.

 

Only who decides where the line is drawn - that's right, the extreme left PC pseudo Liberals do. White racism bad, non white racism perfectly understandable. 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, Baerboxer said:

 

but they can call for the overthrow of capitalism and the implementation of Stalinist style one party dictatorships enforced by secret police and labor camps without any trial for those who dare dissent?

 

Free speech - to be enjoyed by the extreme left, PC pseudo Liberals, and moderate center parties only. All other opinion must be condemned as vile Nazi racist and banned.

 

Only who decides where the line is drawn - that's right, the extreme left PC pseudo Liberals do. White racism bad, non white racism perfectly understandable. 

 

 

Such ignorance. There's a prominent moslem French comedian in France who is facing jail time in Belgium for making anti-semitic comments. He's also gotten into trouble with the French authorities.

[thaihome]

9 hours ago, jaidam said:

So long as the law as regards 'hate speech' is applied universally and without favor to special groups, all is well. Currently some groups being able to give hate speeches all day long with nary an eyebrow raised from the police, while others like Mr Le Pen who said what could be construed as a minor insult, and the state acts like its the end of the world. Ridiculous.

 Look at Harvard proffessor Noel Ignatiev, who is allowed to say that all white males must immediately suicide themselves because they alone cause all the worlds problems? Hateful? Racist? No. its fine for some reason.

 This fair and universal application of law must also be applied to all levels of crime, from cases of pedophilia, marrying multiple women, raping young kids in swimming baths, violent mass sexual assaults etc where depending on the ethnic background of the perp is either or crime or not a crime at all . An inflammatory situation for any realists.

 

Your examples of Professor Ignatiev is a proven falsehood from 2013.  It originated from a satire in the website Diversity Chronicles.  Their websites notes: "the original content on this blog is largely satirical."

 

The story was picked up and cited as fact by several sites. Another example of the factless Internet age we live in.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/11/26/rumor-check-did-a-professor-instruct-white-male-students-to-commit-suicide-for-the-benefit-of-society/

TH 

Edited October 26, 2016 by thaihome

[Publicus]

10 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

but they can call for the overthrow of capitalism and the implementation of Stalinist style one party dictatorships enforced by secret police and labor camps without any trial for those who dare dissent?

 

Free speech - to be enjoyed by the extreme left, PC pseudo Liberals, and moderate center parties only. All other opinion must be condemned as vile Nazi racist and banned.

 

Only who decides where the line is drawn - that's right, the extreme left PC pseudo Liberals do. White racism bad, non white racism perfectly understandable. 

 

 

 

The courts decide. There are two of the kind: a judicial court and a legislative court. That is what each is. Each deals with the law from a different perspective, principle, purpose, rationale etc.

 

The European Parliament is a legislative court, aka, a general court. As always, they argue the politics of it, then they decide. In a judicial court it is also formal but it uses the books sent to it by the legislative court.

 

The issue is what to do with a guy who is a conscious and confirmed fascist...or Stalinist. Or Maoist...among many others of the kind. With a lifetime of evidence to prove it. In court and out of court.

 

In USA for instance, political speech is protected speech under the First Amendment to the Constitution. One can say a lot of vile things Constitutionally. Yet the Congress (and Potus) have as the general court enacted laws against hate speech which have scripted definitions, examples, illustrations.

 

A French court several years ago said an opponent of Marine LePen could legally call her a "fascist" because that is what the guy believes. Using the N word against someone however might be an entirely different matter as it goes to immutable characteristics of skin color, ethnicity and the like. Fascism is after all an ideology that is political -- and it is equally malevolent given one of its inclusively defining tenets is racism. To include the reality of what fascism has in fact done.

 

A major task then is to draw the line between that which is political and that which attacks one on the basis of immutable characteristics. Moreover in Europe, Putin is providing a certain funding to these far right groups in a number of countries, so when a Satan character introduces himself to the scene, the need of viable definitions becomes all the more immediate (and heated). Putin the Czarist-Chekist.

[jaidam]

12 hours ago, thaihome said:

 

Your examples of Professor Ignatiev is a proven falsehood from 2013.  It originated from a satire in the website Diversity Chronicles.  Their websites notes: "the original content on this blog is largely satirical."

 

The story was picked up and cited as fact by several sites. Another example of the factless Internet age we live in.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/11/26/rumor-check-did-a-professor-instruct-white-male-students-to-commit-suicide-for-the-benefit-of-society/

TH 

 Presumably you have not heard of Google? Or Youtube? Or Wikipedia?

 

here is a little extract to start you off

"If you are a white male, you don’t deserve to live. You are a cancer, you’re a disease, white males have never contributed anything positive to the world! They only murder, exploit and oppress non-whites! At least a white woman can have sex with a black man and make a brown baby but what can a white male do? He’s good for nothing. Slavery, genocides against aboriginal peoples and massive land confiscation, the inquisition, the holocaust, white males are all to blame! You maintain your white male privilege only by oppressing, discriminating against and enslaving others!"N.Ignatiev.

 

Good old Noel hey! there are many examples of this respected leftists inflammatory twaddle, which sadly so many westerners respect and follow leading to mass feelings of guilt and worthlessness(amply demonstrated by some here). 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, jaidam said:

 Presumably you have not heard of Google? Or Youtube? Or Wikipedia?

 

here is a little extract to start you off

"If you are a white male, you don’t deserve to live. You are a cancer, you’re a disease, white males have never contributed anything positive to the world! They only murder, exploit and oppress non-whites! At least a white woman can have sex with a black man and make a brown baby but what can a white male do? He’s good for nothing. Slavery, genocides against aboriginal peoples and massive land confiscation, the inquisition, the holocaust, white males are all to blame! You maintain your white male privilege only by oppressing, discriminating against and enslaving others!"N.Ignatiev.

 

Good old Noel hey! there are many examples of this respected leftists inflammatory twaddle, which sadly so many westerners respect and follow leading to mass feelings of guilt and worthlessness(amply demonstrated by some here). 

 

 

Here's something from Alex Jones:

“I mean it’s not that Jews are bad; it’s just they are the head of the Jewish Mafia in the United States,” Jones said during Tuesday’s edition of his educational program “The Alex Jones Show.” “They run Uber. They run the health care. They’re going to scam you. They’re going to hurt you.” 

The difference is, I've never seen N. Ignatiev being quoted by supporters on these pages. But Alex Jones is often cited here by right-wingers.

[thaihome]

9 hours ago, jaidam said:

 Presumably you have not heard of Google? Or Youtube? Or Wikipedia?

 

here is a little extract to start you off

"If you are a white male, you don’t deserve to live. You are a cancer, you’re a disease, white males have never contributed anything positive to the world! They only murder, exploit and oppress non-whites! At least a white woman can have sex with a black man and make a brown baby but what can a white male do? He’s good for nothing. Slavery, genocides against aboriginal peoples and massive land confiscation, the inquisition, the holocaust, white males are all to blame! You maintain your white male privilege only by oppressing, discriminating against and enslaving others!"N.Ignatiev.

 

Good old Noel hey! there are many examples of this respected leftists inflammatory twaddle, which sadly so many westerners respect and follow leading to mass feelings of guilt and worthlessness(amply demonstrated by some here). 

 

 

 

Guess you didn't follow the link. it's a satire, completely made up. Professor Ignatiev never said anything of that. 

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/3/1259776/-HOAXES-101-M-I-T-Harvard-BostColl-Professor-Tells-White-Males-to-Commit-Suicide

Rush Limbaugh took the bait and ran with and has yet to admit he was hoodwinked by a site that proclaims to do this on purpose . Just like you.

 

Again, here is the disclaimer from the Diversity Chronicles :

" The original content on this blog is largely satirical."

"I created this blog for my own personal amusement"

https://diversitychronicle.wordpress.com/disclaimer/

 

TH 

[Baerboxer]

On 10/26/2016 at 2:51 PM, ilostmypassword said:

Such ignorance. There's a prominent moslem French comedian in France who is facing jail time in Belgium for making anti-semitic comments. He's also gotten into trouble with the French authorities.

 

Don't feel ashamed, ignorance can be helped with education.

 

That particular person is a nasty racist who makes salutes to parody the Nazis at every opportunity and not for comedy alone. Whereas should any European dare to mock Mohammed or Islam then they risk nut jobs attacking them. But they are free under law to do it.

 

Other celebrities have gotten into trouble with the French authorities for making anti-semitic comments to.

 

The point is inconsistency. Once you start imposing bans on free speech, then you have to be careful to not to ban based on political opinions and allowing one side to use "free speech" as propaganda whilst gagging opposition. Similarly if you ban nasty cartoons or comedians which are anti-semitic then you can't allow anti Moslem, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh etc ones. 

 

Either ban or don't - but be consistent, even and not favor what's considered "fashionable".