Thaivisa survey: Half of expats have considered leaving Thailand in the last year

[KiChakayan]

9 hours ago, The manic said:

There is lots to do here If for what ever reason you are not into the girly scene. Fine wining and dining, keep fit, day trips out,writing, photography, art,martial arts, cooking,language learning, traveling in Thailand. Regarding family - MGTOW for me. And I will never work again, except for fun or me.....anyway due to skills of Thai PY my appendage is rarely limp at 65..

Great, but as far as I am concerned, if I didn't have a family I would probably have all the activities you mention living somewhere in places like Chili or Argentina. Wine there is way more accessible, the scenery is magic, an one keeps fit hiking in thin air..

 

So there is a particular attraction here, even if, hypothetically, it doesn't affect you: cheap pussy.

[mikebell]

My reason for considering leaving: corrupt Sattahip cop who cost me 90K.

[Essecola]

11 hours ago, dorchester said:

Cambodia is a dump.Lived in PP for a year.I used to see tourist holding signs that read "No" on them.Snookyville isn't much better.Same problems at the beach,sewage oil slicks and trash

Yes. This comment is great. PP is a s--- hole. Unless you like not even being able to take a walk without being asked dozens of times for money or services by people you don't know. If you live in a hotel, they are right there on the doorstep to ask you in some cases before you even step out of the hotel itself. One person told me the little jerks would even come into the cafe area of the hotel and sit down, to watch ppl eat breakfast and ask them "where are you going?"

 

I thought Saigon would be just as awful compared to Cambodia but was pleasantly surprised it is just the odd motorbike would gently ask me if I needed a ride. Not like in PHNOM PENH where they start shouting and flailing their arms even when I am 50 metres away.

 

No other country I have been to nearby has the same level of shameless begging and pestering as Cambodia. Makes a walk to the minimart on my street in Thailand seem like a kind of paradise in comparison.

[GalaxyMan]

On 11/5/2016 at 5:06 PM, impulse said:

 

So true for most folks trying the geographical fix.

 

Wherever you go, there you are.

Couldn't agree more.

 

All countries have their plus/minus variables. Raised in Florida, USA, I've lived in the UK, Netherlands, Portugal, Switzerland, Israel, and now Thailand. I've traveled to over 50 countries. What I love about Thailand (I live on Koh Samui), after the weather and food, is the here & now attitude that seems to enable the Thai people to tolerate their lives. I've never met a more congenial people overall anywhere on this planet. I can't for the life of me think of a single country whose government I totally respect, so the current issues in Thailand...well, Thai history is replete with iterations of what's going on now. Nothing new. As a farang, I don't expect to have any input into how a host country chooses to run itself, whether I agree or not. I am a guest and know to behave as such.

 

Cost of living in Thailand is less than anywhere in Europe, even Portugal, and certainly less than anywhere in the USA. Quality of life in Thailand is superior, unless you choose to make it otherwise. It's all in the attitude you bring to the table. I'm a big fan of if you're unhappy, do something about it, don't just complain.

[keithpa]

On 11/5/2016 at 4:08 PM, Wilsonandson said:

This would be of great interest especially now. With immigration rules being tighten regularly and xenophobia on the rise. What options are there for an expat to live, work or retire else where in South East Asia?

I pulled the plug on Thailand a month ago, Its going to be Bali for me .

[bert bloggs]

Ive just read this for the first time ,and it seems that the complainers are the ones who married some young girl who wants money money money , in fact the sort of girl/woman that would not looked at them twice in their home country ,well sorry you only have yourself to blame , then there are the guys that have a "proper" marriage ,they knew their wives for a long time before they settled down ,they have family here and are not frightened to buy a home etc,because when they go it will all pass to their "real" not "trophy " wife .

they seem to be the happy ones who do not want to leave .

sorry if the truth hurts.

[pieeyed]

It is no longer cheap to live here. Plus this military coup government has made it a pain in the ass to live here.

[balo]

4 hours ago, Essecola said:

No other country I have been to nearby has the same level of shameless begging and pestering as Cambodia.

I agree some parts of PP can be bad. But I lived there for a few months and went around the city with a bike , I met only friendly people if you stay away from the worst tourist areas.  Any hotel or restaurant near riverside and you could get the taxi drivers attention . 

 

[KiwiKiwi]

I have to wonder how many, of the ex-pats who would dearly love to leave, choose not to because of established relationships and/or family ties established since they arrived, or because they are embedded and like being embedded in the barfly and hooker scene.

 

Candidly speaking, family ties and obligations I would prefer not to jettison is the only reason I remain in Thailand, I believe it is a foregone conclusion that in 50 years, Thailand will the rubbish bin of ASEAN, and will contain only those foreigners who are the dregs of the societies they came from. I'm not allowed to say why that is and whose fault I consider it to be, but I imagine it would be the same for others with the same mindset. Say what you will about foreigners but the majority are not blind and not stupid, which is probably why many or most Thais regard us with kii-itcha.

[Eligius]

2 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

I have to wonder how many, of the ex-pats who would dearly love to leave, choose not to because of established relationships and/or family ties established since they arrived, or because they are embedded and like being embedded in the barfly and hooker scene.

 

Candidly speaking, family ties and obligations I would prefer not to jettison is the only reason I remain in Thailand, I believe it is a foregone conclusion that in 50 years, Thailand will the rubbish bin of ASEAN, and will contain only those foreigners who are the dregs of the societies they came from. I'm not allowed to say why that is and whose fault I consider it to be, but I imagine it would be the same for others with the same mindset. Say what you will about foreigners but the majority are not blind and not stupid, which is probably why many or most Thais regard us with kii-itcha.

Yes, KiwiKiwi, I am sure there are many of us who detest the junta and the way Thailand is heading (and where it already is!), but feel morally compelled to stay because of our Thai families/relationships, which we simply cannot and will not jettison. Not all of us are rich - and so not all of us are in a position to take our wife, family or partner with us to the West.

 

So: we stay on - but loathe and excoriate what is being made of this beautiful land ...

[brewsterbudgen]

After 13 years I am considering leaving for the sake of my (non-Thai) kid's education. Unfortunately my earning potential back home is limited.

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[keithpa]

3 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

Ive just read this for the first time ,and it seems that the complainers are the ones who married some young girl who wants money money money , in fact the sort of girl/woman that would not looked at them twice in their home country ,well sorry you only have yourself to blame , then there are the guys that have a "proper" marriage ,they knew their wives for a long time before they settled down ,they have family here and are not frightened to buy a home etc,because when they go it will all pass to their "real" not "trophy " wife .

they seem to be the happy ones who do not want to leave .

sorry if the truth hurts.

I lived in LOS for 15 years, every married man I know married prostitutes.

[InMyShadow]

Yes, KiwiKiwi, I am sure there are many of us who detest the junta and the way Thailand is heading (and where it already is!), but feel morally compelled to stay because of our Thai families/relationships, which we simply cannot and will not jettison. Not all of us are rich - and so not all of us are in a position to take our wife, family or partner with us to the West.
 
So: we stay on - but loathe and excoriate what is being made of this beautiful land ...

How is the junta affecting you and which way is thailand heading?

If you could be specific.

Sounds to me like it's all in your head.

[KiwiKiwi]

3 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

Ive just read this for the first time ,and it seems that the complainers are the ones who married some young girl who wants money money money , in fact the sort of girl/woman that would not looked at them twice in their home country ,well sorry you only have yourself to blame , then there are the guys that have a "proper" marriage ,they knew their wives for a long time before they settled down ,they have family here and are not frightened to buy a home etc,because when they go it will all pass to their "real" not "trophy " wife .

they seem to be the happy ones who do not want to leave .

sorry if the truth hurts.

 

 

Without a doubt, this does apply to many foreigners living in Thailand, as it does to those of non-heterosexual inclination that came here to meet or be with what would (in their home country) be regarded as young and good-looking men. There is no judgmental-ism in this, it is what it is and I neither enquire about nor care about whatever sexuality is preferred by anyone, The fact remains though that sexuality is one of the major drivers for foreigners coming to or remaining in Thailand, something that should be assumed to be smiled upon by successive governments, despite being allied to the huge rate of HIV/AIDS infection in this sorry place, which they probably don't even understand, such is their relatively low intelligence.

 

There's a current hue and cry about the number of black criminals coming to Thailand. If any of the esteemed police were to scratch the surface and find out why this is such a problem, they would find something surprising, that although Thais hate black-skinned people, those same black-skinned people come to Thailand because the incompetent legislation and incompetent law-enforcement tip the balance in favour of the likelihood they won't be caught and if they are, then a quick bribe will make it go away. Thais, like everyone else in this world, reap what they sow, and I believe that, by the time whey wake up and get off their bottoms, it will be waaay too late to fix it. Indeed, there are many signs that it's already too late.

 

Prayuth was supposed to stop all this, he claims to have stopped all this. He hasn't stopped any of this.

[KiwiKiwi]

11 minutes ago, Eligius said:

Yes, KiwiKiwi, I am sure there are many of us who detest the junta and the way Thailand is heading (and where it already is!), but feel morally compelled to stay because of our Thai families/relationships, which we simply cannot and will not jettison. Not all of us are rich - and so not all of us are in a position to take our wife, family or partner with us to the West.

 

So: we stay on - but loathe and excoriate what is being made of this beautiful land ...

Well said, but I believe this land and it's native occupnts have not been beautiful for a very long time, though I acknowledge the decline has been catastrohic in the past 15 or so years.

[Eligius]

1 minute ago, KiwiKiwi said:

Well said, but I believe this land and it's native occupnts have not been beautiful for a very long time, though I acknowledge the decline has been catastrohic in the past 15 or so years.

Right! And the descent into the mire of oppression and petty nationalism (as a manipulative tool) has been especially marked over the last four years.

[seancbk]

Just now, KiwiKiwi said:

Well said, but I believe this land and it's native occupnts have not been beautiful for a very long time, though I acknowledge the decline has been catastrohic in the past 15 or so years.

 

My experience is that things have been getting better over the past 10 years.   Bangkok is getting more modern, there are more high quality restaurants, more high quality bars, more and better shopping options.  More high end condos being built.   This city is now world class in many areas.

[KiwiKiwi]

8 minutes ago, keithpa said:

I lived in LOS for 15 years, every married man I know married prostitutes.

My experience is tha same. I wonder how many of those marriages are successful? I believe mine to be (within limits, because our cultures are irreconcilably different) because my wife was poor but not a prostitute, and despises that profession the same as I do. But most marriages to a bar-girl that I know of do not or did not last.

 

Still, each to his own, I can understand why some foreigners will believe in and embrace the 'Hello handsum man, I wuv you' inducement

[InMyShadow]

Around 10 years is about right for the grass is Greener move

 

But let's not forget that you all left your home countries because they went down hill, to cold, violence etc

 

It's just a big merry ground. Many want to leave but havnt been back in years or went back for a few weeks holiday mode. And then reality sinks in and the "what was I thinking" question takes over

 

Hats off to those that are heading back for children's education. It's sad your in the minority.

 

 

[Asiantravel]

8 minutes ago, InMyShadow said:

Around 10 years is about right for the grass is Greener move

But let's not forget that you all left your home countries because they went down hill, to cold, violence etc

It's just a big merry ground. Many want to leave but havnt been back in years or went back for a few weeks holiday mode.

Hats off to those that are heading back for children's education. It's sad your in the minority.

..............while others suffer from the frog in boiling water syndrome and won't  do anything about until its too late

[bert bloggs]

22 hours ago, keithpa said:

I lived in LOS for 15 years, every married man I know married prostitutes.

You must mix in the wrong circles i am not sure if any of the people i know were married to prostitutes as most have been married for a very long time so i would not ask them  , but many of them worked here and met through business as did i ,that is not to say that there are not nice bar girls ,in fact i dated one for a year when i first came here ,she is married now in the UK has 2 restaurants ,kids and a loving husband of 22 years and is the hight of respectability in the UK .

[brewsterbudgen]

I lived in LOS for 15 years, every married man I know married prostitutes.

Presumably you mean ex-prostitutes?

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[AntDee]

21 hours ago, seancbk said:

 

My experience is that things have been getting better over the past 10 years.   Bangkok is getting more modern, there are more high quality restaurants, more high quality bars, more and better shopping options.  More high end condos being built.   This city is now world class in many areas.

Hi Sean, 

Each of us has his own opinion, and I respect yours. However, I see NO MODERNIZATION of any significance. 

 

Non-Thai restaurants are still generally poor (especially when compared with foreign restaurants in Japan, Singapore, Malaysia). 

 

I don't visit bars much. 

 

Shopping in Thailand for high end products is horror. Things are very regularly overpriced and old generation. The proof is that Thais, even those with significant money, will make significant efforts to shop abroad and bring/smuggle high quality goods back into Thailand. 

 

As for "high end" condos, I also have to disagree with you. My wife and I stayed at 2 such condos: The Met Sathorn and Noble Ploenchit. Like so very many things here, these "high end" condos are mostly built to give the appearance of quality. However, for value, they are terrible.

 

If you understand economics, you know that Thailand's market is most competitive at the bottom - where 90+% of the population live and spend. At the "high end" the value is abominable as there is little competition and Thais with exceptional financial resources typically value quality less than westerners but value exclusion and Face more than westerners. So, for a typical Thai, he/she is far more interested in the fact that something is expensive and cannot be acquired by most people than quality or value of the thing being purchased. 

[InMyShadow]

Not necessarily. Depends if hubby is out of town. Many marry only to find out hubby isn't all he made out to be.

Extra cash doing what she knows best never goes astray

Presumably you mean ex-prostitutes?

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[happy chappie]

Ive about had enough out here and plan on selling my home at a great loss in two years time.might look at nearer home but the way it's getting back in the uk I don't think I could ever go back to a life of tax and immigrants.dont know what I'm going to do with the wife.

[JAG]

53 minutes ago, happy chappie said:

Ive about had enough out here and plan on selling my home at a great loss in two years time.might look at nearer home but the way it's getting back in the uk I don't think I could ever go back to a life of tax and immigrants.dont know what I'm going to do with the wife.

2

Umh...

Wherever you end up setting up your new home, you will be an immigrant!

 

As for "what I'm going to do with the wife", as she is your wife one presumes that you have arrived at your decision in consultation with her? Maybe I am just being naive...

 

[seancbk]

1 hour ago, AntDee said:

Hi Sean, 

Each of us has his own opinion, and I respect yours. However, I see NO MODERNIZATION of any significance. 

 

Non-Thai restaurants are still generally poor (especially when compared with foreign restaurants in Japan, Singapore, Malaysia). 

 

I don't visit bars much. 

 

Shopping in Thailand for high end products is horror. Things are very regularly overpriced and old generation. The proof is that Thais, even those with significant money, will make significant efforts to shop abroad and bring/smuggle high quality goods back into Thailand. 

 

As for "high end" condos, I also have to disagree with you. My wife and I stayed at 2 such condos: The Met Sathorn and Noble Ploenchit. Like so very many things here, these "high end" condos are mostly built to give the appearance of quality. However, for value, they are terrible.

 

If you understand economics, you know that Thailand's market is most competitive at the bottom - where 90+% of the population live and spend. At the "high end" the value is abominable as there is little competition and Thais with exceptional financial resources typically value quality less than westerners but value exclusion and Face more than westerners. So, for a typical Thai, he/she is far more interested in the fact that something is expensive and cannot be acquired by most people than quality or value of the thing being purchased. 

 

I'm perhaps an unusual case as I grew up in Asia (HK) and for me face is very important.

The condos you say are not value, may not be if you are buying, but if you are renting then compared to HK rents they are an absolute steal and when you add in the huge amount of face you get for being a resident in one of those buildings, then what is not to like.

As for modernization, even 5 years ago there were fewer beautiful big modern buildings (condos along the Sukhumvit BTS line, shopping malls like EmQuartier and Central Embassy etc).   Bangkok is definitely becoming more like HK, without the huge rents (so far!)   

I'd argue that Non-Thai restaurants here easily compare to what is on offer in Singapore and HK.   Bangkok may currently only have 126 restaurants in the Michelin Guide,  versus Hong Kong (which includes Macau) which has 325 but prices are much higher, so I'd say Bangkok is better value. 

I'm more like a typical Asian, as I buy things based on how much my having them will impress other people. 

[happy chappie]

41 minutes ago, JAG said:

Umh...

Wherever you end up setting up your new home, you will be an immigrant!

 

As for "what I'm going to do with the wife", as she is your wife one presumes that you have arrived at your decision in consultation with her? Maybe I am just being naive...

 

Yes I'll be an immigrant but with a few £100,000 to my name.not anything like the type that turn up in my old city in the uk with a van load of kids and their hand out asking for everything and illegally entered the country.as for my wife,well let's just hope I can get her a visa.

[tideout]

On 11/5/2016 at 4:37 PM, jgold said:

Vietnam specially Ho Chi Minh will be a very nice place to live in 4-5 yrs so dear expats living in Thailand will have more options. Me as a foreigner feel I was much more welcome under the Thaksin government.  This military junta does not like foreigners. 

 

I'm not so sure. While there are more options for foreigners here than 4-5 years ago there are substantial issues here. I'm not saying Thailand isn't corrupt but Vietnam is very corrupt as well. Terrible infrastructure, pollution and crowding in general. It's anyone's guess how long it will remain on its present track but it's a communist country that is fairly repressive in terms of bloggers, ability of people to protest, speak out and so on. I think people overestimate how "friendly" to outsiders the government can be here. For those teaching English, no matter how well your track record here is, you get what amounts to a 2 year guest worker visa. Get married - add one year on top of that before you're back to going to immigration. They are building their economy right now and it requires foreigners. That won't always be the case and I wouldn't bet on how it turns out yet.

 

[tideout]

Curious if anyone can tell me why the drop off for Udon?

 

I was only there once but thought it was a fairly nice small city. What's up with the "decline"?