What Do All The Africans Do In Thailand?

[meemiathai]

most whities have a heap of money to spend so they dont need a reason to be here as its obvious what they are doing.

africans dont have a lot of money and generally are not classed as tourist's so they look sussed hanging around.

What racist drivel

Pls cdnvic, why do you keep catergorizing things into racism? But fail to see when there really is racism?

What terry had said has nothing to do with racism. Simply pointing out differences between races is not racism.

If I say chinese are smaller than blacks, am I being racist?

Saying chinese are smaller than blacks is not a negative presumption nor denigrating on the basis of race, it's a comment regarding physical feature.

Terry's statements "..dont have a lot of money", "not classed as tourists" are negative, based on assumption rather than facts and, combined with the equally unfactual claims about "whities", imply judgement and affirm stereotypes as prejudice.

Very uncool, it creates suffering. More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

travel 2003's comment is not racist drivel, it reports what police alledgedly do and why, at the same time emphasising how it affects "decent people". Stories like this can easily be used to make racist remarks and affirm stereotypes, dudes like Terry frequently do so.

So, you're wrong, back to the drawing board.

I disagree. Saying someone is smaller or bigger(please do note that small/big can mean negative to some people) is no much difference from truly believing that someone is richer or poorer. I think one has to really judge the intention of the person who is saying it. In my opinion Terry was simply stating what he believes.

I am against creating sufferings. But I think if a black person feels offended by that remark, he should try to change himself to accepting reality. For it is indeed a general perception, I guess, that African countries are poorer. No one here is trying to look down on them because of this.

[drummer]

We all evolved in Africa, and only tiny groups ever made it out! The rest of us are like the Siberian Tiger...

................................................................................

..............

Please tell us more how you came to this conclusion?

That we evolved in Africa? uhhhh, I made that part up. The rest of it I got from

my fancy college education. Specifically from my collegiate study of Paleoanthropology.

(snip)

:D At leaast you are honest dude!

College degrees.. Once upon a time used to be valuable things...

Nowadays, brainwashing courses sponsored by the geo-political Corporate society we are repressed by.

Stay away from Colleges and Uni's I say. Their Curriculums only follow politics these days.

Once upon a time they used to influence the same.

Let me guess ... fundamentalist Christian who believes the world was in fact made in 6 days and that the world is only 6,000 years old, right?

And only by the grace of God does the internet connection work....

[kayo]

This thread is almost getting deep.

So allow me to provide some comic relief. Not funny actually, quuite true in fact.

I'm white.

I've got a black mans willy.

I'm happy:

[drummer]

Finally, just because a person is black, does not make them african. They could be from Europe, the US, Saudi Arabia... lets face it, any country that has ever engaged in a slave trade, can have people who are black in colour, and that does not make them "african". Just black.

I think the OP asked about Africans, not blacks It is gnerally pretty obvious whether someone is African or a black European or black American. Aside from language/accent, the body language often makes it clear from a distance. Africans tend to talk loudly and use exagerated body movements. (Thats a cultural trait, not a racial trait) This is another thing that gives them a really bad rep in the LOS - Thai's are so demure that they find anyone who talks loud or uses big arm movements to be really "low class."

Anyway - no need to insert racism where none is!

[englishoak]

Can't believe all this talk of "we evolved in Africa" Don't you guys know anything ??

Everyone knows Adam & Eve started the ball rolling .............

[drummer]

I wonder why Africa is so backward with that big headstart?

The same reason why Spain, Britain, the Romans, Germans, Mongolians, Persians, etc. no longer have empires. It's not the head start that counts. It's keeping a steady pace.

Anyone ever see "The God's Must Be Crazy"? The movie about the Bushmen in the Kalahari? it is an interesting story - when the Bushmen were discovered by Eruopean anthropologists, there older among them remembered a time when they herded goats in the plains outside the Kalahari. The anthrolopologists saw them as hunter gatherers, and automatically assumed they had been there since the dawn of humanity.

Really, what happened, is that the Zulus were the leading edge of the Bantu Empire - one of the largest empires in world history - centered in West Africa. At one time it included everything from south North Africa to the edge of Sudan to South Africa. So the Bushmen were getting atacked by the Zulus and getting pushed south. then, the Dutch and English started coming in rom the South, and the Bushmen didn't have anywhere to go. They hid in the Kalahri instead of getting killed.

They are excavating a 500 year old library in Timbuktu that probably has over a million books. Hundreds of thousands have already been excavated.

The Europeans had a major headstart worldwide with the industrial revolution, and colonized most of the rest of the world. This often meant importing their resources to Europe. many areas of the world, such as Peru, Cambodia, China, and India are still recovering. Look at the economic data and you will see that China and India have historically far outproduced Europe and everyone else. The current situation is a major exception to world history.

Of course, it is really easy to think you are better than others if you remain as ignorant as possible...

On the other hand, there really are a lot of African drug dealers. One reason Africans will often try to start a conversation is that they are trying to make a sale. A lot of them aren't, though, and that is an important thing to consider. Many are simply being friendly!

Watch your wallet? sure! But watch it with your Thai wife, too! And watch it with your white business partner.

People are people. Its not the skin color that makes people a certain way - it is cultural values and opportunities. A lot of farang are ESL teachers because thats pretty much the only option they have to stay in Thailand. A lot of them stay in Thailand because of the prostitutes. There are the same 'why's to the Thais and the Africans as well. A lot of Thai women becomes prostitute because it makes a lot of money and is a culturally acceptable thing to do. 2nd generation Thais in the US are culturally American, and would typically never want to become a prostitute.

Edited December 5, 2006 by drummer

[LaReina]

lets face it, any country that has ever engaged in a slave trade, can have people who are black in colour

Wrong. Many countries who were never engaged in slave trade have people who are black. You seems to forget refugees, adopted people or immigrants who are later naturalized.

Which is why I used the word "CAN"

Finally, just because a person is black, does not make them african. They could be from Europe, the US, Saudi Arabia... lets face it, any country that has ever engaged in a slave trade, can have people who are black in colour, and that does not make them "african". Just black.

I think the OP asked about Africans, not blacks It is gnerally pretty obvious whether someone is African or a black European or black American. Aside from language/accent, the body language often makes it clear from a distance. Africans tend to talk loudly and use exagerated body movements. (Thats a cultural trait, not a racial trait) This is another thing that gives them a really bad rep in the LOS - Thai's are so demure that they find anyone who talks loud or uses big arm movements to be really "low class."

Anyway - no need to insert racism where none is!

Yes I am are the OP asked about Africans, but I am sorry, you can not look at a black person and automatically know if they are african or not. Just can't. You can say they are of African heritage or descent, but you can't make the continent claim.

Seal looks African to me... but technically he is a black European. then you have the influence of the Arab invaders on North/Western Africa and groups of people who have more finer hair and european features who can easily pass for a black european depending on where they were educated. As for the cultural trait example, have you never heard the expression "you can hear an american before you see them"?

The whole headstart comment is puzzling. Sometimes I think all countries that have two seasons of "hot and hotter" tend to move slower. Countries with cold weather tend to have people who think better because the need to survive and be comfortable is greater. Crops die, moving from place to place in the freezing cold is not fun.. and you just tend to come up with ideas on how to survive. The lazy gene is forced out of you.

[drummer]

You can really tell a lot about where a person by the way they move. Americans walk differently than Thais, who can be easily differentiated from Nigerians. Gesticulations tell you a lot more.

Its not 100%, but listening to language and accents gives you a much clearer picture.

You cannot look at a photo and tell if they are African or not. (although, if they are Masai or Aka then you can hazard a good guess...

Countries with cold weather tend to have people who think better because the need to survive and be comfortable is greater. Crops die, moving from place to place in the freezing cold is not fun.. and you just tend to come up with ideas on how to survive. The lazy gene is forced out of you.

lazy gene?

LAZY GENE??

That is a whole MESS of drivel on many levels. Starting with a complete misunderstanding on how genetics work, including no comprehension of history, add in no consideration of competing theories, and finish up with a round ignorance of any related factors. That has more holes than Caesar.

Look - Europe+US have colonized most of the rest of the world, shipping off their natural resources to the glory of the Old Country, much to the detriment of the colonies. Many areas, such as almost all of Africa and Iraq, were divied up with no regard to the de facto political boundaries that existed, creating grounds for civil wars. Like the one in Iraq today. Iran was a republic before Britian had the PM offed in favor of the Shah to support BP oil. Now Iran is a mess.

*THAT* explains the "headstart" ... if it ever needed explaining, which it doesn't. The genetic variation doesn't mean much at all. Overall, the genetic variation in humans is very small. There was NO headstart. Technological headstarts mean far more... chariots, longbows, steam engines, etc.

And re: smaller/bigger ... there are ethnic differences in size, although mostly it is a matter of diet. The younger Japanese are pretty tall these days - typically over a foot taller than their grandparents. You can often tell Hi-So Thais because they are TALL compared to everyone else. If you ever see a Thai over 6", feel free to speak in English to them because they will almost undoubtedly understand! Thats been my exclusive experience, anyway.

[t.s]

Finally, just because a person is black, does not make them african. They could be from Europe, the US, Saudi Arabia... lets face it, any country that has ever engaged in a slave trade, can have people who are black in colour, and that does not make them "african". Just black.

I think the OP asked about Africans, not blacks It is gnerally pretty obvious whether someone is African or a black European or black American. Aside from language/accent, the body language often makes it clear from a distance. Africans tend to talk loudly and use exagerated body movements. (Thats a cultural trait, not a racial trait) This is another thing that gives them a really bad rep in the LOS - Thai's are so demure that they find anyone who talks loud or uses big arm movements to be really "low class."

Anyway - no need to insert racism where none is!

it was pure pedantry, with absolutely no atempt to answer the OP. PC obfuscation.

[ourmanflint]

Countries with cold weather tend to have people who think better because the need to survive and be comfortable is greater. Crops die, moving from place to place in the freezing cold is not fun.. and you just tend to come up with ideas on how to survive. The lazy gene is forced out of you.

lazy gene?

LAZY GENE??

That is a whole MESS of drivel on many levels. Starting with a complete misunderstanding on how genetics work, including no comprehension of history, add in no consideration of competing theories, and finish up with a round ignorance of any related factors. That has more holes than Caesar.

Look - Europe+US have colonized most of the rest of the world, shipping off their natural resources to the glory of the Old Country, much to the detriment of the colonies. Many areas, such as almost all of Africa and Iraq, were divied up with no regard to the de facto political boundaries that existed, creating grounds for civil wars. Like the one in Iraq today. Iran was a republic before Britian had the PM offed in favor of the Shah to support BP oil. Now Iran is a mess.

*THAT* explains the "headstart" ... if it ever needed explaining, which it doesn't. The genetic variation doesn't mean much at all. Overall, the genetic variation in humans is very small. There was NO headstart. Technological headstarts mean far more... chariots, longbows, steam engines, etc.

Sorry but you have absolutely no clue what you are are talking about here. Trying to explain why the Western Europe evolved both culturally and technologically faster than Africa is no small task, but you are talking rubbish. La reine was more on the right track, as it has everything to do with weather patterns and seaonality as well as geographical considerations, all factors which shaped how societies and cultures evolved over the past 10-15000 years. And yes there was a great university in Timbuktu long before there was one in most countries, but that was a depository not of "African" books, but one of Islamic North Africa and the Middle east.

[LaReina]

I am so sorry but you simply can not imply that I am full of it, and then make a comment like “American’s walk differently than Thais”. Like there is an American Swagger. Like you can watch people walking down sukumhvit and call out their nationalities, based on their walk, skin color and hair texture not being a factor.

Lazy gene? For lack of a better word, yes.. I call it a lazy gene. And no, I did not think anyone would take the word “gene” seriously. It was for lack of a better word. Geez!

More holes than Caesar or Swiss cheese?

I am sorry, but the US, is not and does not qualify to be linked with Europe when one mentions colonialism. European countries ravaged countries shipping off their resources with England leading the way.

When I commented on the “headstart” I did so reading the comment associated with it as being a question as to why Africa is the cradle of life yet with that “head start” is no where near as advanced as Europe and say the US. I then blamed it on the climate. Why peoples of certain climates seem to be more aggressive technologically speaking than others. I did not make it a genetic issue.

You can’t say because Africa was colonized and her resources shipped out, that that is why Africa as a continent is less advanced than Europe. Africa had her famed empires and rulers at the same time as Europe and this is well documented by Arab historians. The Benin empire exchanged ambassadors (for lack of a better word) with the Portuguese who were surprised when they arrived that they already had guns there.

So what if peoples of different cultures were lumped together during the carving up of Africa. So what if they spoke different languages and dialects. Did not the same thing happen in Europe? Did everyone in England speak the same dialect when the Normans invaded? Did all of Germany speak the same dialect/language when she was unified under several princes? The fact is, one group of people opted to be laid back and content and the other group opted not to. The fact is, that when taken out of Africa, ex slaves (at least in the US) became inventors and did things people in Africa never did, and if they did come up with the same ideas at the same time they certainly did not try and claim credit for their ideas.

[cdnvic]

Early humans first migrated out of Africa into Asia probably between 2 million and 1.7 million years ago.

Overstay fine at 500 baht per day, that works out to......

[drummer]

Dude - it maxes out at 20K .... ROFL

That would be early humans - referring to Homo erectus et al. Most people agree that Asians are not early humans, but modern H. sapiens... However, many people do classify your average sexpat as Homo erectus....

[PeaceBlondie]

As a homo erectus, I think that last remark resembles me.

If colder climate makes for better workers and a more organized culture, what would explain the pyramids in the deserts of Egypt and the Yucatan, jungles of Guatemala, etc.? The Mayas discovered zero before Europe did, had a more accurate calendar, etc., and some Maya closely resemble the Hill Tribes of northern Thailand. And how could the Mongols from the frozen wastelands of Asia conquer Europe?

It's too complex to explain in 74 posts on ThaiVisa, or 3,989 pages of advanced textbooks in anthropology.

I met a Slovenian recently. He teaches English. Same with the Belgians. But the guy from Sierra Leone taught it better.

[bkkmadness]

This thread is almost getting deep.

So allow me to provide some comic relief. Not funny actually, quuite true in fact.

I'm white.

I've got a black mans willy.

I'm happy:

I think we all believe in interracial relationships here Kayo. I'm glad you've found yours, what's his name?

[cwilliam]

I wonder why Africa is so backward with that big headstart?

The same reason why Spain, Britain, the Romans, Germans, Mongolians, Persians, etc. no longer have empires. It's not the head start that counts. It's keeping a steady pace.

Anyone ever see "The God's Must Be Crazy"? The movie about the Bushmen in the Kalahari? it is an interesting story - when the Bushmen were discovered by Eruopean anthropologists, there older among them remembered a time when they herded goats in the plains outside the Kalahari. The anthrolopologists saw them as hunter gatherers, and automatically assumed they had been there since the dawn of humanity.

Really, what happened, is that the Zulus were the leading edge of the Bantu Empire - one of the largest empires in world history - centered in West Africa. At one time it included everything from south North Africa to the edge of Sudan to South Africa. So the Bushmen were getting atacked by the Zulus and getting pushed south. then, the Dutch and English started coming in rom the South, and the Bushmen didn't have anywhere to go. They hid in the Kalahri instead of getting killed.

They are excavating a 500 year old library in Timbuktu that probably has over a million books. Hundreds of thousands have already been excavated.

The Europeans had a major headstart worldwide with the industrial revolution, and colonized most of the rest of the world. This often meant importing their resources to Europe. many areas of the world, such as Peru, Cambodia, China, and India are still recovering. Look at the economic data and you will see that China and India have historically far outproduced Europe and everyone else. The current situation is a major exception to world history.

Of course, it is really easy to think you are better than others if you remain as ignorant as possible...

On the other hand, there really are a lot of African drug dealers. One reason Africans will often try to start a conversation is that they are trying to make a sale. A lot of them aren't, though, and that is an important thing to consider. Many are simply being friendly!

Watch your wallet? sure! But watch it with your Thai wife, too! And watch it with your white business partner.

People are people. Its not the skin color that makes people a certain way - it is cultural values and opportunities. A lot of farang are ESL teachers because thats pretty much the only option they have to stay in Thailand. A lot of them stay in Thailand because of the prostitutes. There are the same 'why's to the Thais and the Africans as well. A lot of Thai women becomes prostitute because it makes a lot of money and is a culturally acceptable thing to do. 2nd generation Thais in the US are culturally American, and would typically never want to become a prostitute.

You are so smart ,must teach English.

[Totster]

This thread is almost getting deep.

So allow me to provide some comic relief. Not funny actually, quuite true in fact.

I'm white.

I've got a black mans willy.

I'm happy:

I think we all believe in interracial relationships here Kayo. I'm glad you've found yours, what's his name?

Now I'd better wipe the beer off the screen...

totster

[LaReina]

As a homo erectus, I think that last remark resembles me.

If colder climate makes for better workers and a more organized culture, what would explain the pyramids in the deserts of Egypt and the Yucatan, jungles of Guatemala, etc.? The Mayas discovered zero before Europe did, had a more accurate calendar, etc., and some Maya closely resemble the Hill Tribes of northern Thailand. And how could the Mongols from the frozen wastelands of Asia conquer Europe?

It's too complex to explain in 74 posts on ThaiVisa, or 3,989 pages of advanced textbooks in anthropology.

I met a Slovenian recently. He teaches English. Same with the Belgians. But the guy from Sierra Leone taught it better.

Not necessarily organized cultures (as heat does not stop law and order), but extreme creativity.

Twas just a thought. But correct me if I am wrong, most companies do not expect people to come up with bright ideas in an office environment that is 40C. Room temperature or below is standard. Honestly speaking, how creative are you in the sweltering heat. Most people are miserable and just want to figure out a way to cool down. Now then how creative are you when the weather is colder?

Leave a kid in the mud and he will mold a mud house. Leave one on the beach and he will build a sand castle. The civilizations you refer to built buildings, and temples, not steam engines and light bulbs. Their creativity was not limitless.

Besides there is a theory that people from the Mediterranean area (presumably Atlantis) sailed to the Americas and it is through them that we have structures similar to those found in Egypt. Caves have also been discovered that have drawings that show the great flood which only supports the theory of sea travelers.

Being able to count and tell time is almost basic The desire to divide, ravage and pillage is a power trip.

But like I said, it was just a thought.

[ourmanflint]

As a homo erectus, I think that last remark resembles me.

If colder climate makes for better workers and a more organized culture, what would explain the pyramids in the deserts of Egypt and the Yucatan, jungles of Guatemala, etc.? The Mayas discovered zero before Europe did, had a more accurate calendar, etc., and some Maya closely resemble the Hill Tribes of northern Thailand. And how could the Mongols from the frozen wastelands of Asia conquer Europe?

It's too complex to explain in 74 posts on ThaiVisa, or 3,989 pages of advanced textbooks in anthropology.

I think you maybe confusing two ideas. Civilizations all arose where there was a seasonality of some sort so there was the impetus to develop farming and organisation, the weather may have been a part of that seasonality. The Egyptians had the floods, not sure about the Mayans. Mongols already lived in the modern world so I'm not sure what you are alluding to here. So I will say again in essence LaReina got it right almost.....

[drummer]

You are so smart ,must teach English.

Thats right ... nothing to say, so insult! Great job, buddy. You are the envy of all the other posters. Your wit astounds and befuddles.

BTW - no, I don't teach english. Care to try again? (Hint - I am a teacher, but in the US)

[drummer]

As a homo erectus, I think that last remark resembles me.

If colder climate makes for better workers and a more organized culture, what would explain the pyramids in the deserts of Egypt and the Yucatan, jungles of Guatemala, etc.? The Mayas discovered zero before Europe did, had a more accurate calendar, etc., and some Maya closely resemble the Hill Tribes of northern Thailand. And how could the Mongols from the frozen wastelands of Asia conquer Europe?

It's too complex to explain in 74 posts on ThaiVisa, or 3,989 pages of advanced textbooks in anthropology.

I met a Slovenian recently. He teaches English. Same with the Belgians. But the guy from Sierra Leone taught it better.

Not necessarily organized cultures (as heat does not stop law and order), but extreme creativity.

Creativity? Descartes got a lo of his best ideas hen lying around in bed because he was too lazy to get up... That is a stretch even without considering the definistion of creativity, or how creativity is affected by temperature, now without considering even how creativity manifests itself in various cultures.

Twas just a thought. But correct me if I am wrong, most companies do not expect people to come up with bright ideas in an office environment that is 40C. Room temperature or below is standard. Honestly speaking, how creative are you in the sweltering heat. Most people are miserable and just want to figure out a way to cool down. Now then how creative are you when the weather is colder?

A god question, I expect, but nowhere on earth is it 40C all the time - or even most of he time. Most civilizations live near major water sources. That would give an easy solution for cooling off, wouldn't it? Sitting in the shade? There are a LOT of ways...

Leave a kid in the mud and he will mold a mud house. Leave one on the beach and he will build a sand castle. The civilizations you refer to built buildings, and temples, not steam engines and light bulbs. Their creativity was not limitless.

Actually, modern neurophysiology and astrophysics are mining ancient Indian ideas for insight and coming up with great success in a testable scientific framework. Isan was the site of the the first ever bronze smelting (although that would probably be the Khmers - Thailand took Issan from Laos and forcibly imported a great many Laotians into Issan in the 1800s)

The civilizations I refer to built a great many things, they were ONLY behind in the industrial revolution. And they are catching up rapidly. Just read any foreign policy periodical!!! They built aquaducts, made fine art, almost certainly had complex music forms.

Besides there is a theory that people from the Mediterranean area (presumably Atlantis) sailed to the Americas and it is through them that we have structures similar to those found in Egypt. Caves have also been discovered that have drawings that show the great flood which only supports the theory of sea travelers.

Being able to count and tell time is almost basic The desire to divide, ravage and pillage is a power trip.

But like I said, it was just a thought.

Being able to tell time is basic - you look at the sun. Being able to tell time exactly is a lot harder and more comlpex.

The Phoenecians (aka Carthagenians) were a thesselaocracy and took their saiing secrets to the grave when the Romans invaded and killed everyone, razed their cities and salted their farmlands. They very well may have discovered America before Columbus. The Vikings did, and the Pacific Islanders almost certainly came and went constantly, as they could travel all the way around the Pacific in a month. (Pacific islanders, BTW, are genetically close to native Taiwanese... )

[cwilliam]

You are so smart ,must teach English.

Thats right ... nothing to say, so insult! Great job, buddy. You are the envy of all the other posters. Your wit astounds and befuddles.

BTW - no, I don't teach english. Care to try again? (Hint - I am a teacher, but in the US)

An American teacher?And you brag about it ?

[drummer]

I think I missed something ... where is the vitriol coming from? Did you wake up on the wrong side of a ladyboy last night?

[backflip]

The Africans are doing the same stuff as you, but with more panache.

[Doza]

I think you lot need to reed The Clash of Civilisations and the Remaking of World Order by Samuel P. Huntington to find out what a civilization is in the first place and how they developed and why. The keys to early development lie in food security and storage which then leads to development from hunter gatherer existance because people don't have to spend all day looking for food and can become soldiers or artisans for instance. Now you can protect your village, develop further technologically and invade and grow etc etc.

Good book.

[bendix]

Blacks in Bangkok? Bloody hel_l . . When did that happen? Send the buggers back. They're only here to sleep with our womenfolk, you know.

And the indians. And don't get me started on those dole-bludging Russians.

Thailand for khon Thai.

Everyone else - go home!

[penguin]

The few Nigerian men l've met in Bangkok have all been evangelical christian missionaries.

[drummer]

I think you lot need to reed The Clash of Civilisations and the Remaking of World Order by Samuel P. Huntington to find out what a civilization is in the first place and how they developed and why. The keys to early development lie in food security and storage which then leads to development from hunter gatherer existance because people don't have to spend all day looking for food and can become soldiers or artisans for instance. Now you can protect your village, develop further technologically and invade and grow etc etc.

Good book.

Good book, but pretty much total BS regarding the keys to early Civilization. Hunter Gatherers spend LESS of their day working than not... Strange but true. Most of the antropology on hunter gatherers is BS. They are strangely LESS reliant on weather patterns for their food than agriculturalists. They have smaller groups that can move around and know a billion food sources and water sources. That line of reasoning sounded good at the time so it got accepted without any actual testing.

It is actually settling down in one location itself that dose that - once you have a villiage you have to protect it. you have to store food because your coverage area is much smaller and your population tends to be larger. Necessity is the mother of invention, not spare time or extra food!

Edited December 8, 2006 by drummer

[opothai]

funny thread

when meeting different races in thailand, and if approached to be engaged in conversation, just use common sense.

best not comment

[Maigo6]

Many years ago, I met a Nigerian guy in Pattaya that was living with 5 other Nigerians very close to the house I was renting, he seemed to be very easy with money and easy going, a good guy.

They all got busted for dealing in Cocaine in Pattaya .