90 day at Phuket immigration today

[stevenl]

18 minutes ago, skatewash said:

Must be here on an extension of stay based on marriage, otherwise, it's hard to understand why he "always does his 90 day reports."  Surely someone staying due to entry on a Non-O visa would be unable to do 90 day reports, no?

Agree, but I'm always very weary of second hand information. And with visa every detail counts.

[eisfeld]

On 9/24/2017 at 8:25 AM, LivinginKata said:

 

There is a form to self registered on behalf of the owner. We often give this form to our guests just in case of any problems when applying for an extension or CoR. Seems to work Ok.

Phuket Residence Form.pdf

 

That's exactly my situation and what I'm doing. I have to report myself on behalf of the house owner.

 

On 9/24/2017 at 7:32 AM, skatewash said:

Interesting report, thanks for sharing.

 

A few questions:

How much was the wife fined?  Did she get a receipt?

 

Was she made to file a new TM-30 at that time for her husband?  If so, did she get a new TM-30 receipt to be stapled into his passport?  I ask this because when I reported my return to Thailand last year I did not get a new TM-30 receipt.

When she was told to sign up for online reporting do you believe it was clear to those advising her to do so that she did not, in fact, have a rental business?  In other words, did she get the implication from their suggestion that online reporting is possible for a non-business entity?  My understanding was that online TM-30 reporting was available only to businesses.

 

Did immigration give her any guidance on how to apply for TM-30 reporting?  I seem to remember at one point reading that a business had to go to Phuket Immigration and supply a blank diskette/CD upon which immigration would download the reporting software and return it to the applicant to be used to do the online reporting.  That's likely out-of-date information now.  Is it still the way it is done?  Or can it be downloaded online now, and if so, from where?

She was fined 1600 THB. I don't know if she got a receipt or if he got a new TM-30 receipt. I believe it must have been pretty clear to the immigration officers that they don't run a rental business. There would have been nothing to make them even think in that direction. But since I'm not the IO, I can't answer this with 100% certainty. They did the TM30 this time and told her next time to do it online and gave her a pamphlet with some info. And yes online reporting seems only open to businesses. Every private land lord has to either go there himself or let the renter do it.

 

23 hours ago, skatewash said:

Must be here on an extension of stay based on marriage, otherwise, it's hard to understand why he "always does his 90 day reports."  Surely someone staying due to entry on a Non-O visa would be unable to do 90 day reports, no?

 

The reason I've mentioned the 90 day reports is because he usually stays for longer periods in Thailand but somestimes leaves the country. He recently left the country and I'm assuming he's right now on his Non-O and will then get again an extension based on marrage. The alternative is that he got a re-entry permit before leaving. Again I'm not sure right now but can ask him next time.

 

In any case I'm not sure what difference it would make regarding TM30 filing.

[skatewash]

4 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

 

That's exactly my situation and what I'm doing. I have to report myself on behalf of the house owner.

 

She was fined 1600 THB. I don't know if she got a receipt or if he got a new TM-30 receipt. I believe it must have been pretty clear to the immigration officers that they don't run a rental business. There would have been nothing to make them even think in that direction. But since I'm not the IO, I can't answer this with 100% certainty. They did the TM30 this time and told her next time to do it online and gave her a pamphlet with some info. And yes online reporting seems only open to businesses. Every private land lord has to either go there himself or let the renter do it.

 

 

The reason I've mentioned the 90 day reports is because he usually stays for longer periods in Thailand but somestimes leaves the country. He recently left the country and I'm assuming he's right now on his Non-O and will then get again an extension based on marrage. The alternative is that he got a re-entry permit before leaving. Again I'm not sure right now but can ask him next time.

 

In any case I'm not sure what difference it would make regarding TM30 filing.

Thanks for the response.  
 

Addressing the last point.  I may be wrong about this but I think the whole TM-30 business only applies to those staying long-term (that is, have been granted permission to stay greater than 90 days) such as people on a marriage extension.

If you're here on a 90-day Non-O Visa then you don't have to mess around with either reporting your address using a TM-30 or doing 90-Day reports, because you are considered to be staying here short-term (not greater than 90 days).  You are obligated to leave the country within 90 days or apply for some sort of extension from immigration.  Say you have a Non-0 multi-entry Visa, then you can come and go as often as you want without having any contact with the immigration office as long as you leave the country in 90 days or less during each stay.

So I'm curious whether the above is the correct understanding of the process.  For instance, if he's not here on a marriage extension and yet his wife still got fined for not reporting him on a TM-30 then my understanding of the process is wrong.  If however, she got fined for not reporting him on a TM-30 while he was on a marriage extension then that is understandable to me.  That's why I was curious about the circumstances of his stay when his wife was fined.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

 

That's exactly my situation and what I'm doing. I have to report myself on behalf of the house owner.

 

She was fined 1600 THB. I don't know if she got a receipt or if he got a new TM-30 receipt. I believe it must have been pretty clear to the immigration officers that they don't run a rental business. There would have been nothing to make them even think in that direction. But since I'm not the IO, I can't answer this with 100% certainty. They did the TM30 this time and told her next time to do it online and gave her a pamphlet with some info. And yes online reporting seems only open to businesses. Every private land lord has to either go there himself or let the renter do it.

 

 

The reason I've mentioned the 90 day reports is because he usually stays for longer periods in Thailand but somestimes leaves the country. He recently left the country and I'm assuming he's right now on his Non-O and will then get again an extension based on marrage. The alternative is that he got a re-entry permit before leaving. Again I'm not sure right now but can ask him next time.

 

In any case I'm not sure what difference it would make regarding TM30 filing.

Reports are that people on extension of stay with re-entry do not have to file and people on visa  have to file on return. So extension or visa could be important.

[eisfeld]

skatewash: you are unfortunately mistaken. There is no distinction between foreigners who are in Thailand based on an extension of stay, NON-O visa, Tourist visa or similar permissions to stay that are temporary (in other words, everything apart from PR).

 

Quote from the Immigration Act of 2522:

 

Quote

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following :

...

2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.

3. Shall notify the police official of the local police station where such alien resides, within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival. In the case of change in residence in which new residence is not located the same area with the former police stations , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival.

4. If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time of arrival.

5. If the alien stays in the Kingdom longer than ninety days, such alien must notify the competent official at the Immigration Division , in writing , concerning his place of stay , as soon as possible upon expiration of ninety days. The alien is required to do so every ninety days. Where there is an Immigration Office , the alien may notify a competent Immigration Official of that office.

The provision of ( 3 ) and ( 4 ) shall not apply to any cases under Section 34 by any conditions as prescribed by the Director General.

In making notification under this Section , the alien may make notification in person or send a letter of notification to the competent official , in accordance with the regulations prescribed by the Director General .

 

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office located in that area , the local police official for that area must be notified.

In case the house , dwelling place , or hotel where the alien has stayed under provision of Para.1 is located within the Bangkok area , such notification must be reported to the competent official at the Immigration Division.

Making notification , in reference to the Para 1 and 2 of this Section , must comply with regulations prescribed by the Director General.

 

[eisfeld]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Reports are that people on extension of stay with re-entry do not have to file and people on visa  have to file on return. So extension or visa could be important.

I don't think extension or visa makes any difference. There's nothing to indicate such rules in the laws or police orders. Why would there be such a distinction?

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

I don't think extension or visa makes any difference. There's nothing to indicate such rules in the laws or police orders. Why would there be such a distinction?

Are you trying to find logic in interpretation of Thai laws?

[LivinginKata]

This house/residence registration applies to all aliens whether staying for only one day in Thailand or years. Strictly speaking if an alien stays in another residence  and that residence does go to the trouble of registering the guest then that's on the data base until registering again back home.  I realise that this whole system has been loosely enforced by Immigration for years and years but with advent of Immigration data base and working sofware system then we can all expect this law to be enforced much more rigidly as IOs can get inforamtion at the touch of a few computer keys.

[eisfeld]

I think LivinginKata nailed it. The law has been around for years. But before it was simply impossible to enforce it due to missing technical support. Now their system is advancing and suddenly they find themselves being able to track a foreigners movement through the country so well, that they can enforce these laws. And they do, because they think it's the right thing and obviously a nice way to earn some more money. The direction is clear.

[skatewash]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

skatewash: you are unfortunately mistaken. There is no distinction between foreigners who are in Thailand based on an extension of stay, NON-O visa, Tourist visa or similar permissions to stay that are temporary (in other words, everything apart from PR).

 

Quote from the Immigration Act of 2522:

 

 

1

I accept that the law doesn't make a distinction between short and long-term stays as I thought (or rather hoped) it did.  In practice though, unless you have business at an immigration office (applying for an extension of stay, for instance) there probably isn't a mechanism in place to catch you.  Unless this rule is going to be enforced at the airport or border, which seems really unpleasant (not to mention a bit time consuming).

Of course, the above-mentioned gap in enforcement won't apply to me as I definitely have ongoing business at the immigration office (annual retirement extensions and re-entry permits, 90-day reports if they can't be done online, and the odd residence certificate).  So based on the new information presented in this thread about the step up in enforcement I plan to submit the local Phuket address notification form (posted earlier in the thread) within 24 hours of my returning to Thailand.  For me, since I don't travel that often, that's more of a nuisance than a significant burden, but all the same wish we didn't have to do that. 

I will still ask my condo management if they can help me out by submitting an online TM-30 for me when I return from a trip away from home.  Just not expecting a favorable answer ;-)  Maybe I can get that brochure from the immigration office for online TM-30 reporting and get my condo management to install it (assuming they don't have it currently).  I'm sure that will make me even less popular with the condo staff, lol.

[LivinginKata]

Don't forget that the online registration has not worked for almost 10 months. Only came back a month or so ago. Our company is registered to use the FNHOTELFORM30 and we must register new quests within 48 hours. As I already said we recommended  to our guests that they can self register in case our online method does not work. The stupid thing is that the online system produces no receipt. I have to take a screenshot as proof and give to guests.

 

[zaZa9]

On 9/16/2017 at 12:15 PM, phuketlive said:

they probably want people to go to phuket town office yes;

 

when i went there the other day, i had my queue number, i heard one of the officer speaking thai to the girl who works there and takes care of incoming people, telling her in thai, 90 report will be done after the requests who take more time to do....

 

so for 90 day extension, i will go to phuket town next time, was a nightmare to wait there in their small office, full of people. And hearing officer telling in thai 90 extension will wait after other people where as 90 day ext takes 5mn to do...

 

So yes they make you understand to go to phuket town by making you wait longer and making problems by asking more papers.

When you say "90 day extensions" , do you mean 90 day REPORTS ?

 

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, zaZa9 said:

When you say "90 day extensions" , do you mean 90 day REPORTS ?

 

Obviously yes, that is what he means.

[zaZa9]

^ No. Obvious would be to use  the word "report".

Saying  any other word makes it way less obvious.

[xylophone]

I went to Phuket immigration yesterday in order to do my extension based on retirement and my 90 day report, and it was very crowded!

 

Although I had to wait a while the first part for the extension where they checked all the paperwork, it was pretty smooth and the Thai immigration office, Khun Direk was a model of efficiency, with the occasional smile which always helps. Of course the fact that one has to come back the next afternoon to pick up the passport is a hell of a pain, however I was prepared for it because I had been told this was the M.O. by others, and so it was.

 

Back down there today and the place was again packed with people doing both 90 day reports (the majority by the looks of things) and extensions based on retirement.

 

A couple of things worth noting and passing favourable comments on were the two immigration volunteers (farangs) who were most helpful – – the lady, Carmen, was actually helping a Burmese boy fill out his form because he was having difficulty and she was doing a lot of the work, and when I commented that she was "Jai dee", she remarked that others in the place wanted to charge him 200 baht to fill this out and said that it was ridiculous, because that was probably about all he earned in a day!! Good lady.

 

I gave my multiple re-entry visa paperwork to the other volunteer, Mohan, and he spotted a couple of mistakes and put them right at the stroke of a pen and then sent me on my way.

 

Sure the place is crowded and the system is archaic and certainly doesn't help the immigration officers or the farangs, however the service from both parties was, from my perspective anyway, very good.

[JetsetBkk]

On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 6:03 PM, xylophone said:

<snip>

 

Back down there today and the place was again packed with people doing both 90 day reports (the majority by the looks of things) and extensions based on retirement.

 

A couple of things worth noting and passing favourable comments on were the two immigration volunteers (farangs) who were most helpful – – the lady, Carmen, was actually helping a Burmese boy fill out his form because he was having difficulty and she was doing a lot of the work, and when I commented that she was "Jai dee", she remarked that others in the place wanted to charge him 200 baht to fill this out and said that it was ridiculous, because that was probably about all he earned in a day!! Good lady.

 

<snip>

 

 

I was there Wednesday, too, for 90 day at just after 2pm. That lady volunteer is fantastic - so hard-working and fast. I watched her as I waited for one of them to become free. After a minute I went past her to the male volunteer, showed him my old 90 day report and he quickly gave me a number - the next one on the display. In and out in 5 minutes.

 

I pity the people queuing up for the photocopier - 10 or 12 people waiting.

 

[madmax2]

Was at phuket immigration today 17/10 for my 90 day report, really busy i had 20 people in front of me doing their 90 day reports

I asked the African/american lady volunteer about when a re notification of address was required

She informed me that it is required if you stay in registered accommodation in any other province or leave and re enter Thailand and must be done within 48 hours

 

I did not notify them when i was in Bangkok and staying at a hotel there as a registered guest about a month and expected to be fined, they just processed my 90 day report as usual and put the new form in my passport, if it was because they were so busy or they did not care i do not know

When we go to Australia next week i will definitely supply a notification form from my house master (wife) when i return within 48 hours, never had to do it before in 12 years  

[Old Croc]

On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 5:04 PM, JetsetBkk said:

 

I was there Wednesday, too, for 90 day at just after 2pm. That lady volunteer is fantastic - so hard-working and fast. I watched her as I waited for one of them to become free. After a minute I went past her to the male volunteer, showed him my old 90 day report and he quickly gave me a number - the next one on the display. In and out in 5 minutes.

 

I pity the people queuing up for the photocopier - 10 or 12 people waiting.

 

Did they want photocopies for the 90 day report, or were those people doing copies for short term extensions?

In other words, do they require anything other than the PP for 90 dayers?

 

[Psimbo]

32 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

Did they want photocopies for the 90 day report, or were those people doing copies for short term extensions?

In other words, do they require anything other than the PP for 90 dayers?

 

All they did today was remove and scan my last report, computer spat out the new one- no paperwork needed (I didn't even make copies just in case) I was is in for about 20 minutes with about 14 people ahead of me going off the numbers. Numbering system went haywire for a few minutes so they just called people forward. Most were orderly, some pushed forward. 3 older guys were processing them today,  all seemed in a reasonable mood

 

I'm not sure how I'm going to address the house notification issue as the owner of my apartment doesn't live in Thailand. I didn't want to raise the issue today as I didn't want conflict with the 90 day report- i have some breathing space now. Once I know the process I'll do an update

 

[xylophone]

4 hours ago, madmax2 said:

or leave and re enter Thailand and must be done within 48 hours

I had been told the same thing and had seen a few posts relating to that here, so when I was there doing my stuff last week, I asked the senior Thai immigration officer if it was necessary for me to report back at Christmas time after I had returned from New Zealand, even though my 90 day visit would have been some time away.

 

His response, in good English, was no you do not have to report to immigration if you have left the country and come back, this provided you are staying at the same address. Different or new address, yes, but same address no.

 

And to bear that out, when they looked at my details and noticed that I had been out of Thailand, visiting Vietnam, and that I had not reported back upon my return, nothing was said or mentioned.

[madmax2]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

I had been told the same thing and had seen a few posts relating to that here, so when I was there doing my stuff last week, I asked the senior Thai immigration officer if it was necessary for me to report back at Christmas time after I had returned from New Zealand, even though my 90 day visit would have been some time away.

 

His response, in good English, was no you do not have to report to immigration if you have left the country and come back, this provided you are staying at the same address. Different or new address, yes, but same address no.

 

And to bear that out, when they looked at my details and noticed that I had been out of Thailand, visiting Vietnam, and that I had not reported back upon my return, nothing was said or mentioned.

Good to know, but not the same as quoted to me by the volunteer officer who assured me my landlord had to re register my address

I wont bother going in again when i return from Australia in 2 weeks, never had to report address again when i have previously been overseas or in other provinces in Thailand

MY current address is my permanent one in Thailand and has been for 5 years now

They did not say anything about my stay in bangkok about a month ago either. The volunteer told me that since i was registered by the Bangkok hotel as a guest the hotel became my registered address in Thailand and i would have to re register my address in Phuket as my place of residence  

[Psimbo]

2 hours ago, xylophone said:

I had been told the same thing and had seen a few posts relating to that here, so when I was there doing my stuff last week, I asked the senior Thai immigration officer if it was necessary for me to report back at Christmas time after I had returned from New Zealand, even though my 90 day visit would have been some time away.

 

His response, in good English, was no you do not have to report to immigration if you have left the country and come back, this provided you are staying at the same address. Different or new address, yes, but same address no.

 

And to bear that out, when they looked at my details and noticed that I had been out of Thailand, visiting Vietnam, and that I had not reported back upon my return, nothing was said or mentioned.

It appears to be a bag of worms at the moment- I will wait until after the funeral when they are less pent up and go in at a quiet time to clarify things. He had a good look through my passport this afternoon and asked what i did here but did not question anything else.

 

It seems mad if someone is going back to an address they have lived at for a number of years to have to take in a raft of paperwork every time they go off Phuket, either externally or internally.  One 90 day report and 10 address notifications in a 3 month period if someone was going up and down to Bkk or Patts would swamp them.

 

I reckon it's not just me- I would assume others have absentee landlords as well. Another thing that hasn't been thought through properly.

[LivinginKata]

1 hour ago, Psimbo said:

<snip>

I reckon it's not just me- I would assume others have absentee landlords as well. Another thing that hasn't been thought through properly.

 

Some time ago I posted the self registration form in lieu of the landlord/owner. 

[merijn]

This issue creates indeed a lot of confusion even between the immigration officers them self.

I'm informed by one officer that the address registration has to be done everytime you enter Thailand or went to a hotel in Thailand regardless if you move address or not.

And another officer told to me that the address registration only have to be done when there is a address change of your permanent living address.

Both officers work next to each other in Phuket Town Immigration office. 

 

 

[Valentine]

The reason you need to re register is because if you leave the country your details get chucked out of the system so upon return you are not registered anywhere (the arrival form does not count as registering your address). This could cause problems if you have some issue with the police & they check your details. It seems from recent comments immigration is not too bothered about it but another segment of the police force could make an issue of it.

Apparently they are aware of this anomoly so hopefully they will adjust the software accordingly.

[madmax2]

9 hours ago, merijn said:

This issue creates indeed a lot of confusion even between the immigration officers them self.

I'm informed by one officer that the address registration has to be done everytime you enter Thailand or went to a hotel in Thailand regardless if you move address or not.

And another officer told to me that the address registration only have to be done when there is a address change of your permanent living address.

Both officers work next to each other in Phuket Town Immigration office. 

 

 

As someone who works as a volunteer at immigration would you re register after going overseas or not worry about doing it and just do your 90 day report when due??

[Psimbo]

16 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Some time ago I posted the self registration form in lieu of the landlord/owner. 

Thanks- I took 'some time ago' to mean 'some time ago' so started at the beginning of the thread - it's 2 pages back.

 

It looks like the old form I used in the past. I take it we take this in in lieu of the landlord form, along with house papers, lease, et al.

[LivinginKata]

38 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

Thanks- I took 'some time ago' to mean 'some time ago' so started at the beginning of the thread - it's 2 pages back.

 

It looks like the old form I used in the past. I take it we take this in in lieu of the landlord form, along with house papers, lease, et al.

 

We provide quests with copy house paper and house owner's ID. Guest should have own rental contract.  So your assumption is correct. We supply this self registration as a back stop in case our company online registration did not get logged in (happens a lot).

[PhuketSarah]

On 10/17/2017 at 4:46 PM, Psimbo said:

All they did today was remove and scan my last report, computer spat out the new one- no paperwork needed (I didn't even make copies just in case) I was is in for about 20 minutes with about 14 people ahead of me going off the numbers. Numbering system went haywire for a few minutes so they just called people forward. Most were orderly, some pushed forward. 3 older guys were processing them today,  all seemed in a reasonable mood

 

I'm not sure how I'm going to address the house notification issue as the owner of my apartment doesn't live in Thailand. I didn't want to raise the issue today as I didn't want conflict with the 90 day report- i have some breathing space now. Once I know the process I'll do an update

 

 

23 hours ago, Psimbo said:

It appears to be a bag of worms at the moment- I will wait until after the funeral when they are less pent up and go in at a quiet time to clarify things. He had a good look through my passport this afternoon and asked what i did here but did not question anything else.

 

It seems mad if someone is going back to an address they have lived at for a number of years to have to take in a raft of paperwork every time they go off Phuket, either externally or internally.  One 90 day report and 10 address notifications in a 3 month period if someone was going up and down to Bkk or Patts would swamp them.

 

I reckon it's not just me- I would assume others have absentee landlords as well. Another thing that hasn't been thought through properly.

 

19 hours ago, merijn said:

This issue creates indeed a lot of confusion even between the immigration officers them self.

I'm informed by one officer that the address registration has to be done everytime you enter Thailand or went to a hotel in Thailand regardless if you move address or not.

And another officer told to me that the address registration only have to be done when there is a address change of your permanent living address.

Both officers work next to each other in Phuket Town Immigration office. 

 

 

So which is it? Ridiculous this is so confusing and really illustrates how absurd it is   dealing with the bureaucracy. I'm sure it's quite deliberate, too. 

[KarenBravo]

11 hours ago, PhuketSarah said:

 

 

So which is it? Ridiculous this is so confusing and really illustrates how absurd it is   dealing with the bureaucracy. I'm sure it's quite deliberate, too. 

 

 

You are beginning the path to enlightenment Grasshopper...