Govt approves 10 year visas for foreigners over 50

[homeseeker]

My guess is that this new route is to make the visa process easier for high earners. I reckon it will not affect those wanting or getting the  1 year retirement/extension.

Likewise the elite scheme.

[alocacoc]

So, is it an option or does it replace the other visa? Or must i read all the noise to get the answer?

[rabas]

16 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

So.. Marry her.. Stay on a marriage extension.. 

The drama is ?? 

 

41 minutes ago, Chip Allen said:

The DRAMA is......that it is not spelled out specifically if this new visa replaces the old requirements or not. Nary a word about "grandfathering" in previous Non_Immigrant O holders and those on extensions of stay. Nada. That's the "drama". Marriage visa would be a moot point if the new visa replaces all.

 

Type O covers marriage for any foreigner 18 years and older who has at least one valid Thai wife.

 

They cannot simply replace that (and all other type O catagories) with a 50+ rich, poor health farang visa from a few rich countires with good medical insurace.  Type O visa is used for many situations and in fact it is the catch-all visa type.

 

It is my userstanding that you can even choose how to extend the Type O at time of extension. I use retirement because it is simple, if I screw up my bank deposit I can switch to thai wife. ( they need to see pictures of her cloths in the closet, but when they see my closet they will know I was once upon a time a rich farang).

Edited November 24, 2016 by rabas

[siam2007]

2 hours ago, ravip said:

I wonder if a Thai could get a similar visa in the west for a lesser amount?

 

 

 

when certain requirements are put in place, you have to take into account the cost of living, goods and services in a specific country.

[Thaidream]

Regarding Grandfathering- the current police order does grandfather people who came in under the old financials which were age 60 and 200K age 60 ; later it was changed to age 55 and 500K and now it is age 50 and 800K.  The grandfathering protects each prior person extending at the level they first applied- as long as they continued to go to Immigration each year without any break. In other words if you came here in 1997 and extended every year -your requirement would be 200K. However- if you missed one year and did not extend and now decide to reapply for the retirement extension you would have to meet the new requirements. For the sake of argument- if the powers to be decided to make a new requirement of 100K per month/3M-  if you continue to extend each year in the future and were here prior to the new date of implementation you would be grandfathered at whatever the rules were at the time of your initial application/approval. New applicants after the date of the new requirements would be subject to those requirements.

As far as marriage extensions of stay the requirement is 40K/400K- there is not even a single mention in any English/Thai release where there is any change being considered.

The term 'replacement'  mentioned in some of the  texts quoted refers to the O-A Visa- this could be replaced by the new O-A Long Term 10 year Visa with new requirements. If you don't want it don't get it. If you want to retire - you entire on a Non O; Tourist; or Exempt Entry and go to Immigration and apply for the One Year extension.  However, it could also be that there will be 2 categories of O-A Visa- requirements for 1 year Visa; and an O-A Visa- Requirements for a 10 year validity. The current  Non O Visa can be single entry 90 day or multiple entry- one year. The current Tourist Visa is either SETV or METV- different costs and requirements based up length of stay/validity.

Logic and past experience tells me this new visa will follow the same pattern.

[CMNightRider]

3 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

ok,   so what is the advantage?  except you wont need spend a little time at immigration once a year??

BFD

 

Lol, that is the advantage.  What part of not wanting to get up at zero dark thirty in the morning and spend the day at immigration don't you understand.  I would much prefer to visit immigration every 5 or 10 years.  For those who enjoy frequent visits to immigration, then good on you.  

[Aforek]

14 minutes ago, siam2007 said:

Did some google-ing and found:

 

Average MONTHLY pensions in Europe (not complete, just what I found, data 2014/2015, can provide you with links if interested)

 

Lithuania     242 € 

Slovakia      408 €

Poland        504 €

Portugal      833 €

Greece       882 €

Spain        1.021 €

France     1.052 €

Germany  1.176 €

Austria     1.560 € (paid 14 times a year)

 

 

Not exact for France ( my country ) 1066 euros gross ( year 2015 ) is the basic public amount, but there is also an other complementary  amount ( agic, arrco  private sector ) which gives the average pension to 1306 euros ; for people who have work full time all their life, average is 1730   euros ( gross )  (http://www.latribune.fr/economie/france/la-pension-moyenne-de-retraite-s-eleve-a-1-306-euros-bruts-mensuels-475756.html)

[pegman]

3 hours ago, MrMuddle said:

I've read through several pages of this and am none the wiser.
Can someone from TV's admin or moderators please sum up EXACTLY what the position is ?
Are retirement visas going to be replaced ?
Is this new visa just another option ?
Is the medical expenses retirement for ALL retirees ?
Are people on the present retirement visa exempt from the new provisions ?
 

The big boys want to gauge reaction maybe. They chased away nearly 80% of foreign investment by floating that foreign owned businesses must be Thai controlled.

[pegman]

4 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

 

Lol, that is the advantage.  What part of not wanting to get up at zero dark thirty in the morning and spend the day at immigration don't you understand.  I would much prefer to visit immigration every 5 or 10 years.  For those who enjoy frequent visits to immigration, then good on you.  

I drop my paper work and passport off at Jomtien Immigration at 14:30 and it is ready next day.  Real tough sledding.

[Peterw42]

13 minutes ago, buick said:

i never really understood the practicality of the non imm O-A (muli entry) obtained in USA.  you are retiring to thailand but the visa is only valid for a year, although you can go two years if you leave and come back right before it expires.  then you have to go back to your home country to get another one ?  if you retire at 50, you have to go back to your home country every two years for 30+ years ? you don't have a house, a car, etc...  that is a long expensive journey to get another two year retirement visa (thai elite sounds alot better).  when people talk about 'getting a proper visa', the current O-A seems rather 'improper' for retiree.

 

 

 

When the OA visa runs out you get an extension based on retirement, then renew that extension each year. You dont have to go home when the visa runs out.

[siam2007]

11 minutes ago, Aforek said:

Not exact for France ( my country ) 1066 euros gross ( year 2015 ) is the basic public amount, but there is also an other complementary  amount ( agic, arrco  private sector ) which gives the average pension to 1306 euros ; for people who have work full time all their life, average is 1730   euros ( gross )  (http://www.latribune.fr/economie/france/la-pension-moyenne-de-retraite-s-eleve-a-1-306-euros-bruts-mensuels-475756.html)

 

 

yes it seems to be the basic amount (though my MOM who was a housewife virtually all of her life gets just 600€ widow's pension since my father passed away!  Luckily she owns several properties that generate decent income).

 

But even taking into account the amounts you mentioned, it is still a far cry from 100K which is now around 2.600 €. Which actually means the new "regular" program is becoming an "ELITE" program. Expect the THAI ELITE system to be mothballed soon.

Edited November 24, 2016 by siam2007

[buick]

11 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

 

When the OA visa runs out you get an extension based on retirement, then renew that extension each year. You dont have to go home when the visa runs out.

 

thanks for the clarification.

[pegman]

Has anyone come across a figure of how many of us troublesome retirement extension expats there are?

[CMNightRider]

20 minutes ago, pegman said:

I drop my paper work and passport off at Jomtien Immigration at 14:30 and it is ready next day.  Real tough sledding.

 

Well good for you penman.  In Chiang Mai, it is a big production going to immigration.  The ring leader of CM immigration has went out of his way to make the simplest tasks for foreigners nearly impossible without showing up at zero dark thirty.  Sooo, being able to get a 10 year visa is a big thing in this part of Thailand.    

[phuketrichard]

27 minutes ago, pegman said:

I drop my paper work and passport off at Jomtien Immigration at 14:30 and it is ready next day.  Real tough sledding.

i did mine at phuket immigration in June;

in and out in less than 30 minutes.

yea, real tough

[Elkski]

What types of monthly income meet the requirements? What about just a drawdown of retirement funds?  

And I thought 70,000baht/ mo was a good living?  Why 100k and the one poster said 200 k / mo would be better.  

[Friendly Stranger]

Wow 50 pages in less than 2 days.

 

This is them saying if you want to stay - show us the money.

 

They're changing the rules to attract wealthy whales.  What else do they have in store to prevent "middle-class westerners" from staying.

 

And about "grandfathering", we're talking about Thailand right?

[mcfish]

Has anyone come across a figure of how many of us troublesome retirement extension expats there are?

There was an article recently published that said there were 40k expats in Chiang mai. I don't know if that was white guys or the whole world.

Chiang mai is the most popular place for retirement so you will need to guesstimate the rest of Thailand from that

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[Aforek]

13 hours ago, Dtrump said:

Any of you guys who actually live in Thailand should have your wife drop an email to the government informing them that Teeranai Charuvastra, Staff Reporter has written a story that claims Thailand is eliminating the one year retirement visa.  That is what "Replace" means.  I doubt it they have ever considered the idea but it would be nice if a Thai native told them what their reporters are telling the world.  It would be really cool if Thai Visa had enough balls to ask the many contacts at immigration that they surely have the same question.  That would be a public service and proactive journalism.  And a sign that they were actually newsmen.  

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/business/2016/11/22/govt-approves-10-year-visas-foreigners-50/

Problem is that the first message in English was out of context

the master word  in the original text in Thai is ( phonetics ; plian, which means " change " or " replace " )

BUT ; in the Thai text it means that the foreigner , when he is already in the country, can  ask his "long stay "  visa to be replaced ( or changed ) by the new  10 years visa  ;  nowhere it's written that the new visa will replace the one year visa ( it's the foreigner who ask it,  not the government )

[SpokaneAl]

i never really understood the practicality of the non imm O-A (muli entry) obtained in USA.  you are retiring to thailand but the visa is only valid for a year, although you can go two years if you leave and come back right before it expires.  then you have to go back to your home country to get another one ?  if you retire at 50, you have to go back to your home country every two years for 30+ years ? you don't have a house, a car, etc...  that is a long expensive journey to get another two year retirement visa (thai elite sounds alot better).  when people talk about 'getting a proper visa', the current O-A seems rather 'improper' for retiree.
 
 

I would say that it makes perfect sense for the person moving to Thailand. That person arrives in Thailand with a visa that can, if done correctly, be extended for a second year. Then that person can move to the extension of stay. I don't think anyone is saying that the non imm o-a is a permanent solution.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[Peterw42]

There is a perception running through this thread, that the current group of expat retirees are poor, living in poverty and if mama noodles go up by 10 baht, they are finished. 

I think the opposite is the case, most retiree expats are in fact comfortable or very well off.

Look at the threads on Thaivisa, "whats the best new pick up", "whats the best school to send the kids to", "who does the best business class to Europe" etc etc.

 

These are not post from people living on the breadline

[JLCrab]

Once again, until there is a Notice on the Ministry Foreign Affairs website and/or a new Police Order this is just the Dog chasing its tail. And thanks to those on here who invoke the well-worn "Don't they realize  ... ?" mode of argument when noting that Visa/Immigration policies should better take into account the economic impact of those residing long-term in Thailand whether on Tourist Visa or Non-Imm type Visa / extension. 

 

BTW the current head of the Visa section at MoFA was the former Vice-General Counsel at the Royal Thai Consulate in Los Angeles.

Edited November 24, 2016 by JLCrab

[Jingthing]

20 minutes ago, Friendly Stranger said:

..,

 

And about "grandfathering", we're talking about Thailand right?

Again, how many times does it have to be repeated, grandfathering was DONE BEFORE when the retirement extension financial qualification levels were raised. Those already in on the old levels can still legally use those old levels and under law can for life  (unless the law changes). That, amigo, is grandfathering, and yes Thais get that. 

[tukkytuktuk]

***Breaking News***

Royal Thai Government update

http://www.thaigov.go.th/index.php/en/cabinet-synopsis-/item/109144-the-cabinet-meeting-on-tuesday-november-22-2016

[tukkytuktuk]

Royal Thai Government update reads:-

Title: Extension of period of stay for Long Stay Visa

The Cabinet approved in principle on proposals made by Ministry of Public Health on the extension of period of stay in Thailand for Long Stay Visa. Ministry of Interior is ordered to issue or amend related laws to be in accordance with the Cabinet’s resolution.

Gist of the matter

Ministry of Public Health reported that

1. At present, an increasing number of foreigners aged 50 and over have been travelling to Thailand for a long stay by obtaining Non-Immigrant Visa Category O-A (Long Stay). Ministry of Tourism and Sports also reported that in 2014, top 15 countries of which the citizens have been approved for a long stay in Thailand are: England, USA, Switzerland, Japan, France, Australia, Norway, China, Sweden, Netherlands, India, Italy, Canada and Taiwan. These are tourists with considerable potentials who prefer to stay in Thailand’s tourist destinations, such as Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Chonburi and other famous coastal provinces.

2. Ministry of Public Health and Ministry of Tourism and Sports have reached an agreement, at the 5/2016 board meeting of Thailand Development and Promotion on Medical and Wellness Tourism, to extend period of stay for Long Stay Visa from 1 year to 10 years for foreigners from 14 countries as follows: Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, Sweden, France, Finland, Italy, Germany, Switzerland, Australia, USA, England, Japan and Canada. The requirements are as follows:

 

1)    Age requirement: Foreigner aged 50 or more who applies for Non-immigrant catergory O-A (Long Stay) from Thai Consulates in their countries or foreigner who travels to Thailand with other types of visa and wishes to change to a Long Stay Visa. Holder of this type of visa will be permitted to stay in Thailand for 5 years with multiple entry and granted for another 5-year extension with multiple entry.

2) Visa fee: 10,000 Baht

3) Financial requirement: Must have a bank deposit of at least 3 million baht or have a monthly salary of at least 100,000 Baht

4) Health insurance coverage: Must have with them medical insurance policy of at least USD 1,000 for OPD and USD 10,000 or more for IPD per year

5) Report to immigration: every 90 days to the immigration officer in his or her residence area

6) Others: Spouse or registered partner of the applicant aged 50 or more can request for a Long Stay Visa by providing a seperate bank deposit in Thailand or have monthly salary. Spouse aged under 50 will be granted with Non-immigrant visa catergory O, and childern aged under 21 can enter the country for education with Non-immigrant visa catergory ED. The applicant can also purchase private vehicle or condominium in Thailand with foreign funds transferred to Thai bank account, as well as will be permitted to conduct volunteer work without pay.

[Peterw42]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Again, how many times does it have to be repeated, grandfathering was DONE BEFORE when the retirement extension financial qualification levels were raised. Those already in on the old levels can still legally use those old levels and under law can for life  (unless the law changes). That, amigo, is grandfathering, and yes Thais get that. 

 

Yes, I agree, grandfathering has happen before and will probably happen again. This is a little different, previous grandfathering was new requirements for the "same" Visa, this is new requirements for a "new" visa. 

If the requirements for the current 1 year visa/extension change, and they grandfather the requirements, thats all good.

I cant see them grandfathering the current financial requirements to get the "new" visa.

 

 

[tukkytuktuk]

This does replace the existing retirement visa.

 Are you panicking now? I am!!!!!!

[Jingthing]

Just now, Peterw42 said:

 

Yes, I agree, grandfathering has happen before and will probably happen again. This is a little different, previous grandfathering was new requirements for the "same" Visa, this is new requirements for a "new" visa. 

If the requirements for the current 1 year visa/extension change, and they grandfather the requirements, thats all good.

I cant see them grandfathering the current financial requirements to get the "new" visa.

 

 

Of course not for a new visa. By definition that wouldn't be covered by grandfathering. This is no wording yet about whether the current levels for annual extensions is even going away ... but it's looking that they might be. So one step at a time. 

[SoFarAndNear]

32 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

There is a perception running through this thread, that the current group of expat retirees are poor, living in poverty and if mama noodles go up by 10 baht, they are finished. 

I think the opposite is the case, most retiree expats are in fact comfortable or very well off.

Look at the threads on Thaivisa, "whats the best new pick up", "whats the best school to send the kids to", "who does the best business class to Europe" etc etc.

 

These are not post from people living on the breadline

 

You must have missed the "Visa Section" in this forum. There are many who have to to trick the system to stay in Thailand. Not to mention the ten thousands who are still illegal here on overstay. And many many visa agent offer the service of "borrowing" the required amount for a fee like 20.000baht. Pattaya will be a lonely place if you need 3mio baht cash or 100k income to get a Retirement visa. 

Edited November 24, 2016 by SoFarAndNear

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, tukkytuktuk said:

This does replace the existing retirement visa.

 Are you panicking now? I am!!!!!!

Could be, dude.

So if this is for real, as soon as it becomes official, for example January, and it is a real replace, a person that can't qualify for the new levels if their extension comes up in February for example, must exit that quickly? That's panic worthy!

 

A good business to go into in that case for those who can stay ... buying DEEPLY DISTRESSED condos! Sorry. 

Edited November 24, 2016 by Jingthing